$35K to spend, how will you build a system?

Kevin of VAC very much likes JM Focal Grand Utopia speakers, $200k. I also know that Albert Porter, a member and a dealer here, has the same speakers with reference Allnic electronics. So perhaps you should consider lesser models if you want to go with either VAC or Allnic. There is something here on sale for about $7k if you want to consider used at all.
In any case, yeah, many possibilities. Lamm/Kharma, VAC/Focal, Ypsilon/Lansche and Gryphon/just about anything will all sound different and you might actually like them all, with preferences for different kinds of music and mood. Some people have two or three systems, you know. I am sure your Thor pre-amp can be matched to some hybrid or solid state, but you must be careful in terms of electrical compatibility. Yes, Lamm makes both hybrid and SE tube power amps. Some will say 'dry', others will say ' harmonically correct and balanced  '. Also depends on speakers and cables, of course. VAC is more warm, Allnic is probably somewhere in-between Lamm and VAC, closer to VAC, but I never heard it.

@inna
would you mind PM me?

Sorry I’ve been busy with the fallout left by Irma. Been cutting off the trees it left planted onto my roof. Whew! Thus far no tremendous devastation. All seems easily mendable. The amount of tree debris is astonishing. It could well have been disasterous. The clean up will still take a while!

I’ve found thus far, better upstream doesn’t dictate top level speakers are required. Merely very capable and honest ones yield great results once the signal path is well heeled in advance of them.

RE Lamm tube preamp and hybrid power amps
Yeah. Saw that constant on biz too. My Thor line stage is similar. Left on muted it plays better later on and or the next day. It migrates from SET-ish to more agile and insightful sitting there just under power. Not passing signal.

I must have missed something as I’ve not realized Lamm produces hybrid amps. Thought they were SET 20wpc or so amps only. Hmmm.

I’ve heard too, their sound is ‘dry’.

A big draw back for me with Lamm is the biasing. Can’t see well enough to do it myself. That’s a problem. It was convoluted doing it with the Dodd monos. Sight is worsening. True too, there’s simply too many options for me to bother with manual biasing going forward as things will only deteriorate further with time.

RE Ypsilon/Kharma match?
If the Kharmas are NOT a polite or veiled sounding system that could be a great arrangement.

RE Ypsalon – Gryphon – constellation, VAC – haegel – Master Sound (d’agostino) and even PSA hybrids (depending)

I’ve given separates and upscale INTsa considerable bit of rumination. It seems a great idea so long as one loves the house sound of the makers kit, ie., Master, Gryphon, Ypsalon, etc.

The point I have to keep in mind (which is an easy task to forget) that cost is something of an object here, and that is the “point of diminishing returns” bridge. I’d not wish to cross it chasing mere percentiles of barely noticeable gains. Meaning getting into amps or speakers above $15 - 20K MSRP is littered with questions IMO.

Having spoken but briefly with Kevin Hayes whose outfit is not far from me, I like his notions on the sound he tries to or does, achieve with his amps. what he ‘trickles’ down into his entry level kit is above many others mid level or higher choices IMHO. Something in me wants to experience that sound. The sole caveat is I’m likely not able to play in his sandbox given his MSRPs. Well, not 100% anyhow. $42K and in mylocation , PLUS tax is ‘spensive fare for a pre amp and amp! just the taxes would be 3K if bought directly from VAC!

Regardless, I’m sold on putting most $$$ of the initial investment fairly equally into the source, control, power, setup, room and then speakers. Usually in that order. Give or take a bit here or there. Its all a juggling act anyhow.

Ypsalon has released an INT. and upgrades for their Alias monos.

Another thought exists too that very likely I’l miss the bullseye with the first volley. Hopefully it will be a matter of wires, not gearSo exchanging and or upgrading speakers if needed, is a definite do agle thing later. If I’m not married to them at the onset due to their investment. $20K, $25K, $30K or more.

Me thinks once one gets into the clouds of audio selling off $15K to $30K gear is not the speedy hot bed of transactions one might believe it really is. Of course too, A’gon ain’t the only match in the box to light those fires either.

It does however mean mistakes there can be extremely costly.

The main issue I see in my deal is first getting resolving speakers in house. Not expensive, or destination sorts, but very honest capable ones which will enable me to make better decisions about the rest of the rig. That logic persists quite plainly as the likely first step. The caveat then is not to try compensating the system to fit to them. Sounds dangerous doesn’t it? It does knowing myself better of late. It would be easy to for them to trickle down into another system elsewhere in the home.

As you said to seriously audition the gear at these prices, and I certainly agree, if I hear this or that somewhere that kills, well then, all other notions, ideas, themes and theories I have are out the window! lol

I’m not all about the chase. I’m more, ‘are we there yet’?

Perfect is not the goal. Great and or incredible? Well, those are the obvious objectives. I’d happily settle too for merely Wow! Whatever that means.

I mean, Gryphon will drive Kharma, no problem, and the sound will be excellent, just not necessarily the best to your liking possible. Gryphon also makes speakers, but this I know nothing about. Lamm doesn't make dac, Vladimir is very conservative, nor do Lamm preamps have onboard phono, but I remember you are not interested in it, certainly not an important point.
In any case, this company of Ypsilon, Gryphon, Lamm and VAC is a great one.
I do know that the Flemming of Gryphon likes large scale music, which is of course more difficult to record and reproduce. I think, though I am not sure, Vladimir is a classical music fan. You can ask him this too.

Gryphon or Ypsilon/Kharma match? I have no idea but somebody does. It appears that the Diablo only has stereo subwoofer and tape out.

I will !
I am not sure about Diablo, take a look at Gryphon website or you can just ask the US distributor - On A Higher Note.
But if you consider $28k retail line stage you could probably go significantly higher than with any integrated, though it would be 2-3 times the cost? If you do you should definitely also consider Lamm tube preamp and hybrid power amps. A word of caution - some or all, I am not sure, I just heard it, Lamm preamps need to be permanently powered on for the best sound. If not they need to be on for a few days before they reach this level. You can ask Vladimir of Lamm. Better Kharma/Lamm/Purist cables is a well known great system, but this doesn't mean your preferred system, and the bloody thing would really be expensive. There is a pair of Kharma for $33k here. But..in your place and with this budget going up and up, I would not buy absolutely anything before seriously auditioning Ypsilon electronics.

@inna > thanks.

Get out of my head man! lol

You’re beginning to scare me some. You are pretty close on what I’ll seek in the end. Your input is immensely appreaciated don’t think it isn’t.

The Epsilon Alias’s I feel are gonna be out of reach and yep, I saw the ones listed lately as well. I just can’t justify that much money. Yet. It would mean less investment in other areas unquestionably. Likely ‘speakers’.

Just ‘cause I might be able to wade that deep into the pool doesn’t mean I should.

These last speaker choices are, at least one of, are what I’ve been looking into lately. Kharma and Verity seem quality speakers. I’m also interested in the Devore X and or something that resides in the 92 – 95db area so < 100wpc tube amps can be used. That’s the best choice IMO. However, a great tube pre that can outrun my thor line stage and a pair of nice SS monos also are a combo I’d live with happily, given a decent enough pr of speakers synergistic to them were had. I’m not opposed to adding subs either, although I’d like to avoid it.

As for KEF and VA, I ljust like their looks. Never heard either one.

Never heard of the other two speaker options you pointed out.

FYI… I did not care much for the BAT VK 60 I had briefly. I did love the Thor EL34 30wpc monos and later the Dodd 120s also EL34 but up to 60wpc in PP.

I also loved the BAT VK500 w/BAT PK plus Thor line stage and wish I still had it and the Dodds. Running separately, not vertically. Funny how life is at times. Then it was sell these if you want something else. And I did. Or thought I did. It helped a lot having the 93db Silverlines too.

My aim in any event is to ultimately garner as much ‘they are here’ as is possible with the sonic presentation… often settling for ‘you are there’ scenarios. I found in my limited exp tubes is the answer for the former more often than SS, although as with EL34s as you said of VAC, the lower end simply is not well addressed requiring sub (s) or higher eff speakers… and maybe subs then too if limited tube power is the amp in use..

There’s no way I can get into VACs statement series. The Sig II line stage ($28K MSRP) would be the absolute limit then I’d be looking for SS power. It bugs me too the cost of the Sig Ii is where its at and not having heard it at all. There may be a shot at an audition in the area later on though.

I will go on rep only so far. After that, I’ve just gotta get some ears on things before I could justify pulling out that level of 5 digit money. I’d have to.

The Gryphon Diablo INT sure seems a fair bet as a default for one size fits all without breaking the bank. Which actually means its scaring me too much.

Do you know if the Diablo has the ability to run each amp separately? Use it with a different preamp, or use its preamp with different amps? I’ve not been able to clearly determine that aspect.

One thing for sure, this is the most interesting hunting and gathering trek for me yet. Especially given the duckets I could be dropping into it. Time will tell. Hopefully this ain’t an effort in ‘time well wasted’. I want a new house for all this crap to go into as well. So there’s that.

One thing for sure is I am not a card carrying certifiable high res detail oriented freak. Organic and natural is always the target for me.

As for the speakers..
Of what I heard or heard of my two choices for you, as I understand what you want to accomplish, would be Lansche and Kharma. My choices for myself would be the same plus Michael Green Audio custom speakers. I would have Michael voice the speakers with either Gryphon or Ypsilon or Lamm.
Additional thought is that I heard of at least two very respectable and serious audiophiles, and talked to one of them, who can afford a lot, who have Allnic separates in their systems. From what I could get Allnic would be a little too soft and not strong enough for me even assuming the right match with speakers. VAC is famous for its midrange, which is great but not good enough for me.

Blindjim, Gryphon Diablo 300 with DAC and possibly phono module too just in case. It will control the speakers like no other except Gryphon separates. Think of the speakers as a woman and amps as a man. It might not be the most beautiful song that will be sung but it will be the most clear open and confident. Gryphon.

  Parsons >   Preamp = Atma-Sphere MP-1 3.3 $9000 (used) - Amps = Thoress 845 SET monos $4500 (used)

Blindjim > nice. Thanks.

Sorry for being so late to reply her. Irma has given me some troubles so I’ve been a bit preoccupied.

845’s? aren’t these pricey in NOS iterations?

Assuming you have heard in part or together this preamp & amps combo, could you clue me in on either’s performance? Especially that of the preamp?

Secondly, simply the Aurender A10. Again, is this a piece you’ve actually heard demonstrated individually?

Your whole approach is quite interesting.

I have an entirely different setup in mind, and all of it in the ‘as yet unheard’ just imagined or ‘dreamed’ stages. Although a bit of what you have chosen would be most welcome in mine. It’s ending cost exceeds this criteria by a good bit. Albeit, the one I listed above using the harbeth mons seems decent enough if it all had to come . in on time.

Topology aside with respect to balanced or single ended, I do feel the upstream section of pre, source and amps does carry the load mostly so having a superior preamp even with merely a DAC and likely a tuner is IMO nearly a must. Its also where I’d input tubes if tubes could be inserted in just one area.

I’m liking in my dreams, VAC sig pre II, a pair of VAC IQ 200s in mono, or the Imagination series of Constellation, or maybe even an INT from Gryphon or Yipsalon.

speakers unknown, DAC unknown too but EMM labs or something more cost effective like the Comet or yegersol, or merely the A-10. Shunyata PCs or Elrods, or Pure Audio, none of which have I heard their latest greatest vers. PLC too is up in the air, but my default without audition could be Running Springs or something similar.

I’m torn between KEF blades I & II & . VA music or Listz. Each worry me as to power needs however.

Be well.

I like the literal exercise.

Here is precisely the system I would build, using used equipment where you could find it (you'd have to, otherwise the new prices would be +$20k) .  I would target a super highly efficient speaker with a ton of dynamic punch that allowed top SET mono amps to shine.  I had to dump my whole analog front-end and album collection to come in just under $35K, which I would do in a heartbeat for this digital front end to hit this budget.

• Preamp = Atma-Sphere MP-1 3.3  $9000  (used)
  
• Amps = Thoress 845 SET monos  $4500  (used)

• Music Server = Sonore UltraRendu $875
• dac =  Schiit Yggy $2300 

• USB Regen = Uptone ISO Regen $325
• USB cables (2) Rendu to IsoRegen to DAC = 2 Uptone USPCB A>B Adapters $70 
• Linear Power for Ultrarendu and Iso Regen (2) = 2 Uptone UltraCap™ LPS-1 $800
  
• Balanced power conditioner = Equi-Core 300 $799 
• Speakers = Zu Druid 6 $10000 

• Interconnects (2 pairs) = Audience SX $1900  (used)
• Speaker cables = Audience SX $1200  (used)
• Power cables (4) = 4 Shunyata Black Mambas $2000  (used)

• iPad $450  (used)
• Lifetime Roon $499 

Total $34718
Remaining $282 (spend on vibrapods and Tidal monthly fees until gone)

Truth be told, I actually made/would make a couple upgrades from here, but that would have put me over the $35K by a grand or two.  I would have gone upline on the Equi-Core to the 1800 or higher (looking now) and spent more on linear power supplies, maybe.  But I could live with what I listed for sure.  One could argue that I could/should save a few $ on an under-$10k-used set of Zu Definition 4s and get as good/better performance than the yet-to-be-released Zu Druid 6s, but my space is small and I think I could get a better total quality from the new smaller Druid 6s in my space.  

Shoot your arrows at all of it...welcome the feedback.

Charles > Record Cleaning Machine/Dryer: KL Audio CLN LP200 Ultrasonic Record Cleaning Machine/Dryer (New) -- $4,800.00
Power Conditioner: PS Audio Power Plant P3 (New) -- $1,500.00

Blindjim > hello Charles. Welcome back.
Nice job! Both sides of the coin too. Cool.
And under budget. Balance on LP gift certificate Mr. Sayjack. lol

Really? Record cleaning devices cost that much? Whoa. Whoa. Wow. I must rethink just what I’ve saving not having a TT!!! Whoa. Never bothered seeing the accessory list for TTs like cleaning gear. Man!

I knew something about cartridge cost, arms, platforms, phono preamps, etc.. nada on cleaning, straightening, flattening, etc. amazing.

So far, I’ve not heard an ‘active’ power line conditioner I’ve liked, or which has not adversely affected the sound quality. But, that is just me. I do enjoy the ‘passive’ conds effects ore.

Saw PF do Dark Side in ’73 at Jacksonville Coliseum across from Gator bowl. Best light and sound in a show I’ve seen then or since.
They played DSOM front to back… then jammed for another 40 mins or so.

Best part of the show?
$6 tickets

Late ’76 saw them do Animals in Paris France at a soccer stadium. They floated a huge Pig blimp over the field. This show wasn’t near the one done inside at Jax, but it was decent.
Tickets? Not sure but about 40 or 50 Francs or around $10.

I recall Atom Heart Mother as the first PF album I heard.
Obscured by clouds came next.

DSOM sold me on PF.
Still, I’d not drop $200 or more on a Master tape copy. Maybe.

As for another system idea:
7000.00 Aourender A10
7500.00 PSA BK 250 2ch hybrid amp
10000.00 Harbeth 30.2
5000.00 Rel sub
4000.00 NOS tubes, Cables & PCs
2000.00 cord 1800w conditioning
DIY amp stand or platform

Careful with that axe, Eugene....

N

Trying to pick a favorite Pink Floyd album is like trying to pick a favorite child, I just can't bring myself to waste the mental energy to even try.

WYWH? Awesome!
Animals? Fantastic!
Meddle? I love it!
Ummagumma? Ummamygod!
TDSOTM? Excellent!

I am even growing in appreciation of The Wall now, and I recall disliking it when it first came out. I considered to "poppy" sounding.

However, I would say that my favorite era was between 1971 and 1977, when they released Meddle, TDSOTM, WYWH, and Animals.

Tape?

Crime scene or Quarantine?

Oh, but for the days of Wow… and oh yeah, flutter.
Whatever happened to the $1K Nakamici Dragon? Neatest looking deck ever.

I had the first auto reverse cassette deck Akai put out. It actually flipped the tape over physically. Well, if you put some foil sensing tape near the ends. A clunky and tedius process.

Tape was just begining to get into metal and ferrus, different biases and lengths of tapes such as the infamous 120s which actually lasted more than a few plays without stretching or breaking.

The Crown, and Dokoder Reel to Reel decks were among the top units.

I had TEAC and Akai RTR in the ‘70s. they were only 7.5, and 15 IPS. 7 inch tapes I think. Not tens.

I would record FM stations and LPs at 3 ¾ or 7.5 for hours and play them bak while at sea. There were no prerecorded RTR tapes besides classical music then.

I was agast seeing RTR playback only decks that cost more than a very nice preamp or amp at $15K or more.

RE $200 f it still had living DNA or saliva on it. It would sure depend on whose DNA too.
Reba? Lorrie? Absolutely. Probably wouldn’t even request a blood test.

I need an analog to digital converter and a cassette deck to get everthing converted into digital.

Are there any cheap but fairly decent ones around?

Much simpler times then. Hated to see the 8 track go the way of the Do Do bird. Oil well.

Poetry is even more subjective than music, I think, I will not argue with that. As for music, WYWH music sounds more mature to me than anything before or after, though Hey You and Comfortably Numb ballads from The Wall are impressive, I'll give them that.
Yes, RTR decks.. The dream system - just a deck, preamp, pair of monoblocks and speakers.
At the very least I was thinking about putting everything valuable that I have on LPs and even CDs on tape and sell everything vinyl except the most valuable records. In fact, nowadays I listen to mostly my finely tuned Nak682ZX cassette deck except when I want maximum quality. No, even with Vertex cassette and supercables it can't capture everything from the Nottingham but RTR deck would. And I have couple of cassettes that I played more than 500 times, they still sound the same, though I never fastforward or rewind them. Try 500 plays with any vinyl. Anyone tried it?

Animals for me.
There's still no better song I heard than Dogs for lyrics and music together. 

WYWH is their best album by far, in my opinion. Yeah, the recording quality is no good, at least that's what I hear on German record.
$200-$300 might be right, I wouldn't disagree.

$200 mark for master tapes of popular artists sounds about right. UHQR vinyl of DSOTM sells much above that point.

Inna

Yes, I've got for instance
Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here and Dark side of the moon (WYWH is nowhere as good SQ wise as DSOTM, which was recorded by Alan Parsons)
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
Doors - Debut album, Morrison Hotel and LA Woman
Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde
Billy Joel - Stranger
etc
mostly at about the USD 200 mark

Charlie

$200 on average is very high unless it is something like Bitches Brew by Miles or Inner Mounting Flame by Mahavishnu Orchestra or Wish You Were Here by Pink Floyd.
Still, I am thinking about Otari project for the future, or Sony pro. Studer A810 would be better but too expensive, though not as expensive as master tape dubs.

Inna,

You can find dubs of master tapes if you look hard enough, as well as original production masters. I have about 60 albums now, ranging from Miles Davis KoB to Michael Jackson Thriller, Pink Floyd The Wall and Nina Simone Pastel Blue. Some have cost as a little as USD 80 (bought several years ago), some as much as USD600. Most are around the USD 200 mark.

Servicing - as always, buy the best machine you can afford. If you get a studio machine e.g. Studer, Otari. MCI, Ampex or Sony APR 5000 series, you can find engineers and spares (some makes easier than others). New heads aren't a problem as JR French will make you a new head and align it correctly in your head block.

Charlie

This would be fine, but where do you get master tape dubbs of real music not junk ? And at what cost?
Besides, R2R machines need servicing.
I like tape too and I don't really like vinyl and all that associated stuff.
Yeah, "it's the tape stupid" .

Well, my current system costs over USD35k, so I've blown that much money already. So what would I do now, if I started again (instead of 35 years ago).

1) Buy TWO Sony APR 5003 R2R tape machine - USD 1000 each in good nick - this was Sony's one and only studio R2R machine - super transport, great replay electronics and fabulous software driven interface for calibration

2) Spend USD 1000 on appropriate monitoring - twin needle PPM meters with mono/sum function (to check levels and repro head azimuth), XLR-RCA balanced converter (not just XLR-RCA leads), cheap studio XLR leads and a test tape.

3) USD circa 12k on speakers, pre and power amp

4) USD 20k on "master" tapes and blank tape (I duplicate each master tape I buy onto new tape stock with calibrated test tones for replay line up)


Why have I said this? I reached an epiphany about 2 years ago. I had spent 30+ years trying to get a high quality vinyl replay system. In fact I was really happy with this - Platine Verdier with GT Audio Battery PSU - 2 tonearms/carts; Schroeder Model 2, Allaerts MC1B and Hadcock 228 and vintage Decca London FFSS MkIV C4E - TRON Seven Reference phono - amplification TRON Meteor/Voyager tube pre/SET Power - Avantgarde Duo 2.2.

I then bought my first studio R2R machines - Studer A807/II, Sony APR 5002 and Sony APR 5003 - result - I haven't played my turntable for almost a year!!!

jmcgrogan2 > Integrateds are popular in the USA too

blindjim > hey John, you are correct sir.
What we see depends mainly on what we look for. John Lubbock –

Since the 60s & 70s I’ve always seen INTs as purely a shortcut and not the best path to gain ‘the most’ performance or ‘the best’ sound. This is especially true after seeing what sort of flexibility separates can deliver in an audio system.

I’m on the road to relaxing that attitude and INTs are looking more and more attractive, here and there. The ones I’m getting transfixed on however are some pricey little meatballs! So, we’ll see.

They make great sense for putting together a rig under $35K too.

 It seems immensely popular in Europe to go with integrated amps. Gryphon, Ayon, GamuT, etc., all make feature rich INTs. .

Integrateds are popular in the USA too, as Pass Labs, VAC, ARC, Ayre, BAT, Boulder,  D'Agostino, Rowland, and many more USA manufacturers all make quality Integrated amps.

4425 > I'd buy used and start with a Dartzeel CTH 8550 integrated amp

Blindjim > thanks much 4425 !! those are terrific ideas.
I’ve never heard the Dartzeel gear but have read some articles on them and they are very well received by anyone whose writing them up. Given the DS price, used would sure be the way to proceed.

The idea of an upscale Integrated amp is a real interesting approach. I’ve seen more than once, one instantly gets built in synergy from using one brand of power, and possibly source too has a really great argument for obtaining a high quality sound.

  It seems immensely popular in Europe to go with integrated amps. Gryphon, Ayon, GamuT, etc., all make feature rich INTs. .

Hopefully some day I’ll hear the Revel’s in a proper room and or without Transparent wires making up the entire harness. I do dig the esthetic of the ultimas but their power needs put me off. That and what I just said about setup which made them sound sterile dry and uninvolving.

I haven't read all the threads but after owning a lot of high end gear I know what I'd likely do. I'd buy used and start with a Dartzeel CTH 8550 integrated amp with the great built in phono stage if you want turntable capability. If digital only a Bricasti M1 for preamp and dac plus a great amp driven by the M1. For speakers I don't think that you could exceed Revel Salon 2's. I like AQ cables a lot looking for Niagara used plus one of their really good copper speaker cables. I'd buy the Naim Uniti Core ripper/player and enjoy an immensely musical system. The amp for the Bricasti would be a Pass 250.8 or similar such as a used JRDG 62s2. I prefer the Dartzeel solution very much for the most flexibility. It's a special unit as is the M1. Just my opinion.

jollygreenaudiophile2 > Next I may actually add something to this thread that honors it's intent!

Blindjim > I can definitely relate.

In 2001 I was excited to have a Sony STV 444es 5.1 HT receiver, a pair of B&Ws, a sony 50 CD carosel, and a B&K amp and some Monster wires.
ASAP a krell KAV 250 evicted the B&K amp, the BWs were upgraded and more small BWs were added on, and an ancient Velodyne .10” sub joined the fray.
The Krell KAV pre arrived ASAP and the BWs were again upgraded.
It was 2003 – 2004 when I joined this site and its forums. Asking every stupid question known to mankind, and a few I mdae up which were not known. Well, on this planet anyhow...

Insanity loomed large and I began buying stuff I couldn’t afford with money I did not have to impress people I had not even met yet.

Older, wiser, and far more experienced with 3 reasonably nice systems constructed and then deconstructed, later, and some critical life experiences I was out of the mix, but for no very good reason, I’ve managed to pull myself right back in.

Or not. We’ll see soon enough..

It ain’t the way you walk, its where you stand.
It ain’t how you fly, its where you land.
It ain’t how you talk, its what you say.
It ain’t what you buy, its how you pay.
Watch you when you go by R.O.B. 2001 album of the same title

Jolly,
Lol! What a well written story and that hook at the end just makes me want to hear more. I look forward to your next installment.

I think that "I" need to digest what was just written by myself. And I have chores. but if no-one complains too much I'll continue and tell you what I think of this thread. And I think "Mike The Hunter Guy" has it closest. But I just HAVE to say, Speakers first!

Ok, Coffee in hand, 6:00am. Only 30 more minutes until the pills kick-in. 
     Yee ha!
   Hey pal, Don't feel sorry for me! I'm allowed 3 of those pills a day.
  Besides, I "did" get a visit from the settlement fairy. And I cannot , will not EVER tell you about it! Yeah that's right I signed the papers! That's the only way I could have bankrolled this! I had always, always said that someday I'm going to take the time and the money and become what is in my mind a real Card Totin, golden eared Audiophile. And all it took was an 'Traumatic Brain Injury". Besides, All my friends say I'm finally becoming myself again. Whilst beginning my mid-life crisis! About all I know is that this entire 3 month journey has well been worth it! And I've learned allot.
      Indeed for someone that thought that "Monster Cable" was just an audiophile thing and that those "special cables" that the average guy laughs about were only for those that really didn't know any better! And that they simply had too much time and money on their hands.
                        And now I am one with them.  "I make my own now", and am on my third set. Just having received my fourth type to experiment with yesterday.
                              Can you FEEL the LOVE people!
      I COULD sit here and keep writing except that I'm starting to try to be funny and that's generally a bad sign. 
               Oh well , The signs never bothered me, so,
Which brings me to this morning. As I laughed three months ago after probably showing the sorriest face I've ever put on. As the Martin Logans crumbled. I knew I was going to do this . And set myself a limit of $10,000.00. Which was gone in about a week and a half. with not really much to show for it. I started with the Rotels, Moved up to Onkyo Gran Integra's and found my speakers right in the middle. I will never forget it. It DID feel like a sort of epiphany. Having seen them in a magazine in 1984? While I was overseas with the service. I think it was playboy. The full, or was it half page add for the speakers. There they were, In all their glory. With a FOR SALE on top of the Ebay page. That was the day I called Magic Marksy! For those of you whom might not know who I am referring to "Although I believe from the conversations I read that at least a few of you do". He is a purveyor of vintage Infinity Speakers And as it turned out that MY "Holy Grail" are a set of RS-1b speakers heavily modded with the Monsoon driver upgrade. I was going to buy them....Until I found a set two weeks ago of the same speakers, "Marksies!" that were now even more heavily modded and upgraded with a newly rebuilt Crossover to boot!
       I am now the proud owner of a crapload of decent to great "IMHP" amps. And my first Onkyo M-509 shipped to me yesterday from Montana. My two M-508's are on their way and I have four m-504's split between Home and the shop. Those at home I'll take to the shop for servicing next week when I pick those up Along with my 5 channel Rotel RB1095 for my HT. My Rotel's which are now gathering dust are soon for ebay and Audiogon. The second Panamax 5400pm for the extra dedicated circuits being installed came yesterday of course, as did the Nakamichi Rx-202, "The nifty one that spins the cassette around". Last night I took some pics of the first 2" maple plinth I ever made for my Pro-ject turntable. And today my three VTI audio racks shall arrive from "Douglas Connection Cables", "Great Service!!! Two VTI, BL304's that will sit side by side and a BL 405 that will sit to the right of my Nifty Old Infinity RS-1b's That I just signed a contract to have delivered from Indiana to Maryland Just after midnight last night. They will FINALLY be here tomorrow!!!!!
                             So WHEW!   I've been a busy lad the last few days.                      There's more but I wont bore you.

    If you haven't heard of "USHIP", don't feel bad, Neither had I until Thursday, AND THEY they are awesome!
         Can you tell I'm excited?
                               Break!
     Audiogon can tell me to stop boring everyone any time now If they'd like to.
           But I just had to get all that off my chest!   
 Next I may actually add something to this thread that honors it's intent!
                                  OR, Maybe not!

Hello all, bows to Blindjim. I couldn't sleep. And a few hours ago I got up, bored I logged on and joined Audiogon. and somehow, This is the first thread that caught my eye. I'm not sure really how to begin other than to give you all an "I'll be as brief as possible" short preface. Of why me finding and reading this thread tonight/morning is just so ironic.   Five years ago my world stopped turning with a sudden blow to the head. And it's taken me about four and a half years to get my world to start turning again. Now it feel like it's all happening too fast.
      About four months ago I was allot like most. but I have been something of an audiophile since I was 15 and acquired my first pioneer 8 track combo receiver with upgraded kenwood speakers, "I paid $15 extra for those!" and they changed my life. But soon I entered the rat race and lost focus on what was my first love, music. Fast forward to several months ago.
    Like many I had resigned my fate to having an Pioneer elite sc-77 and a pair of martin logan "source" speakers. Using my dvd player as my trusty transport I was awed about once a month for about two hours, "the time allotted me with no one home" at how amazing my system sounded. And of course I was the envy of most of my friends as most of them have really nothing at all except the $150 Black Friday box of 5.1 tiny, "Wife approved" speakers 10" sub and with luck a $200 AVR. 
   LO and Behold, I was awakened by a Mighty Din! As the Martin Logans melted and the Pioneer "Elite" popped and fizzled, I laughed, I really did.
  Not too insanely though, The Jonese's might hear.
         What was I to do? I couldn't justify just running out and replacing it all. And that Monster Cable speaker wire had been in my family for generations! I should at least save that right???
    I'll skip ahead a few weeks now. You don't need to hear about me finding the gospel at Best Buy's and their price matching. My seemingly endless journey through that price match maze of AVR's All with their own proprietary technologies that only THEY had that didn't mean Didly Squat at the end. Because at that end was Indeed the mighty Marantz!
      And Indeed, as I worked my way up through their Integrated AVR inventory "sometimes daily". I caught my self peeking at the "Separates".      Soon I was actually even talking out loud about them in the stores!!!!!!
Amplifiers and Preamplifiers Audioquest cables.
     At this point I realize that I'll never stop getting x-mas cards and such from Best Buy's. I made those guys millennium! But enough was enough and I stopped! For an entire 3 days I did not ONCE peruse the adds from anything that I knew was garbage. now realise, my house is at this time chock full of speakers I couldn't return, Klipsch's and Polk's and pioneer's! "Oh My". I finally took the big leap on ebay about 3? months ago? ?Yeah, my short term memory is the last thing that wont heal" Anyway
I purchased my first real amp, a rotel RB1080 which I adored. for about two months. Then I bought another to Bi-amp the Klipsch f-20 synergies that were so awesome. Deeeep bass I thought for a week, with Highs that would curdle frozen milk! But I knew I needed speakers. I needed to find a pair that I could both afford. And be able to look myself in the mirror about. And maybe something vintage. Hmmmm. And I knew this because I had just auditioned some b&w 800's. The new top of the line one's. And although I could not afford those, at least couldn't bear to afford them. I knew in a very literal 5 seconds or less I had to have something decent. What even a REAL audiophile would have.
                           Here we have to take a break. Well I need a break.
     I can hear the pain pills calling me.
   And oh yeah, I have kinda left a little thing out. Haven't I told you about the settlement fairy? I didn't?        BRB

Dcevans > I would travel to a major metropolitan area and audition speaker-amp combinations.

Blindjim > my preffs and room have been outlined above. we’re on the same wavelength on a few accounts. It seems a necessity to travel at least some. Or find those dealers that will allow for an in home demo. Spkrs by nature will be the problem children and why one has to accumulate air miles.


Nutty > Total $34,600 without tax.

Blindjim > Super!! That was very thoughtful. Very nice. My preffs and exp remove Ayre as a candidate though. For someone else? Sure not bad at all. I’m very interested in how those new Para spkrs work. I’m also surprised on how many tend to declare AQ as the cable solution du jour. Thanks.

Ayre cx-7emp CD player for disc playback and transport. $1,700. (Used)
Audioquest Earth Interconnects balanced $1000.
Audioquest Diamond Digital cable $1000.
Ayre qx-5 for streaming and HI-Rez $8900.
Audioquest Earth interconnects - balanced $1,000.
Anthem STR Integrated $5,000. ( on-board room correction and phono)
Audioquest Oak - 2 runs for biwire $6,000
Paradigm Persona 3F $10,000.
Total $34,600 without tax.
N

Vinyl will eat up 10k or more of the budget. If I had it to do over, I don't think I would've gone the vinyl route. I would spend the money on better speakers and electronics. 

I would travel to a major metropolitan area and audition speaker-amp combinations. I would like to hear a SET amp with a high sensitivity speaker (e.g., Shindo or Line Magnetic amp, Devore speakers). I would want to hear an OTL system (e.g., Atma-sphere or David Berning) paired with a higher sensitivity speaker. Also, a dipole speaker (e.g., Magnepan 3.7i, Martin Logan 13A with built in room correction), paired with a high quality SS amp (e.g., PASS Labs 250.8, Constellation Inspiration). If I went the latter route, I would probably still go with a used Audio Research Reference preamp. 

If someone approached me about helping them build the best system for them for 35k (about what I have into my own), I would want to know several things. What is the room size? What kind of music do you listen to? Do you want to play vinyl, vinyl and cds, or will you be streaming high resolution files through a DAC? 
If a small room

Dkarmeli > You don’t ask people who aren’t there themselves yet, they’re only guessing or wishing like you are!

Blindjim > Appreciate the input David but, I’m not guessing at all. Rather I’m asking for experiences: “had it to do all over again…” you did see that, right?

Although I’ve been involved in electronics since 1969, a member here since ’04 or so (see previous reviews and threads I generated), things change fast in ‘audioland’. Having been out of the game for the past five years, I simply wanted to know what’s up today from those who are in the mix. I’ve put together some outfits in my time, heard many many more.

Dolby Video? Streamer renderers? Tidal streaming service? Magico S series? There are cable companies now that were not even considered just as high end options five years ago. How many of the cable companies have completely changed their products since 2011 or 2012? No one was playing DSD without an SACD player when I had to withdraw. Paradigm was not a true high end option in 2011 or 2012. Exogal wasn’t even in existence. Vienna acoustics ‘Liszt’ wasn’t even built yet in 2012. Oppo has made immense strides and so has Modwright since then. Where was Endeavor? Etc.

Best check your reference.

I feel I’m ahead of the game philosophy wise and have my own preffs as to what is the most significant aspect of the audio system, arguably.

I’m certain of only one thing for sure, I do not need a dealer to make up my mind for me. I need a dealer so I can see and or hear what makes sense to me from his or her inventory, not from their ideas or opinions.

As for hearing everything in the context of your home and system, well, good luck with that dream. Its just that ‘a dream’ if one thinks they can get whatever in house to listen to before they buy it all the time with any item. That’s just sheer fantasy. Ridiculous.

And who, at some point in time or other, has not thought to themselves or mentioned to someone else, what they would do if they had a sudden chunk of change to drop into or on a system, or if they were to do it all over again?

Yeah. Probably no one but me.


Mikethehunterguy > I would get the Sanders Sound Model 10 system. Speakers, amps (2), preamp and room correction all for $22k.
… digital source, stand, decent cables, and other accessories for say, $8k.
… $5k for a turntable rig (used) if you are inclined that way.
…. music and maybe room treatments. Plus a good chair.

Blindjijm > winner winner, chicken dinner!! Excellent idea on the Sanders arrangement. Some years back I almost pulled the trigger on his amps.
‘Chair’ again, Excellent thought. No one thinks about the ‘chair’ as a part of the experience. Although, GamuT I believe offers one on their site. Thanks.

I would get the Sanders Sound Model 10 system. Speakers, amps (2), preamp and room correction all for $22k. I’ve heard this stuff, and can say it is Class A. Then get a good digital source,  stand, decent cables, and other accessories for say, $8k. Leaving $5k for a turntable rig (used) if you are inclined that way. Otherwise buy more music and maybe room treatments. Plus a good chair.

Spend $20,000 on my dental bills (I wish I could say charity; but I know that won't happen), invest the $15,000 ( good idea, falconcrest), pick the one component i my system that would be LAST to replace, and start learning, listening, and upgrading slowly; only buying what I could hear making a distinct improvement in the sound in my listening space. I would consider room treatments, but that may require a consultant,and I hate to dilute my buying power that way. 

Maybe I could afford to donate my old stuff to a Charity.

You don’t ask people who aren’t there themselves yet, they’re only guessing or wishing like you are! Best bet find a dealer or friend with the type of sound you like and give them your budget. With $35k you should get exactly what you want if the dealer is competent.

David

Shadorne > If I could start over again, I would buy great sounding interconnects, a box of directional fuses and the best speaker cables I could find. Of course 35K would not nearly be enough - so I definitely wouldn’t waste money on electronics or speakers as these can be easily found in a dumpster or at a recycling center.

Blidnjim > sounds like Dum[ptsters and landfills in your area are very special. lol

If I could start over again, I would buy great sounding interconnects, a box of directional fuses and the best speaker cables I could find. Of course 35K would not nearly be enough - so I definitely wouldn’t waste money on electronics or speakers as these can be easily found in a dumpster or at a recycling center.

roxy54 > I understand. I'm sure that you could have a very nice system for $35k, but if you had $75k to spend, that would surely be nice.

Blindjim > 35, 75, or possibly nuttin’. We’ll see. This misadventure will be a serious one for sure, either way.

One idea not yet posted is “Fill out your outfit using only those ‘keeper’ items already in place, adding more of the same, or upgrading them ie., speakers, source, amps, room treatments, subs, adding dedicated power lines, etc.


david_ten > It might be helpful if you re-post exactly what you are looking for, in a highly summarized form.

Blindjim > thanks. You might be right.

Trust me, I do edit my comments towards as much brevity as I feel is appropriate. Usually. Sorry.

Btw… see my recent threads. They summarize my primary personal goals en masse. 2017 Speakers, 2017 amps, 2017 cables. I could or should add one on DACs, but there seems plenty of those. Or one on the DSD ripping or acquisition thereof, for the files and the predominate themes on DSD formatting, and sampling rates 64KHz or 128KHz,

Anyhow, let’s see what happens here a while longer.

@blindjim 

It might be helpful if you re-post exactly what you are looking for, in a highly summarized form. 

No apologies necessary. I understand now, and I agree that replies can be for the benefit of everyone. Whatever the result, I'm sure that you could have a very nice system for $35k, but if you had $75k to spend, that would surely be nice.

Inna > Gryphon integrateds do have optional dac, not sure about Ypsilon.
I have no idea of the US prices of Diablo 120 and Diablo 300, I think it's something like 9000 euros and 13000 euros respectively without dac plus VAT in Europe.

Blindjim > I saw those options. No, I don’t think the yps allows for a DAC onboard. I’ve not checked on what current prices are exactly. Just saw what was mentioned in the older reviews if I mentioned them at all. I liked what I read on the Greek offering. I’m pretty sure they’re not on the table for me especially if bought new though.

As for using an INT, once more for me, its overcoming my own prejudices that a single box can out run separates in performance… we all have our demons to deal with regularly.

Although, for this thread, it & they are exceptionally viable options depending ..on the DAC and speaker choices one would add on which brings the rig in under or on budget.


roxy54 > blindjim,
Sorry if I misunderstood, but I just went back and read your original post again, and it certainly sounds like a hypothetical. I don't see you mentioning anywhere in the post that this is something that you are actually considering doing.

Blindjim > No worries. You’re right. I purposefully avoided making it all about me initially.

originally I figured as said, the thrust of the topic might aid someone else as it asks for ‘experiences’..

Personal curiosity fueled a large part as well. Given recent iterations, new brands, models etc., I’m completely unfamiliar with, the hope was input would land here on what or how others would formulate all or parts of their outfits with the handcuffs of $35K as a learning experience and with luck, as some notes already demonstrate, some fun too.

The last line says:
What is your approach with $35K burning a hole in your pocket to acquire great sound? Can it even be done in 2017 with such a budget?”
‘it’ refers to the topic of a system in total or in part, for $35K.

Invariably at some point, we always ask each other what did this or that run you? right? Or why did you pick that one? Or simply where or from whom did you get that?

Yes, I’m considering erecting another rig which if all falls in line can well exceed the inferred financial barrier. My original plans were to do one front to back, ‘landed’, under $75K. more or less.

Talking with other friends, about the advances in Digital technologies, and associated platforms, cabling, and especially loudspeakers, felt I might be far too deep into the diminishing returns bucket and could be wasting money with such a knee jerk over the top budget.

Then came along the thought, well what actually can be done with less money in the here and now? Hence, this topic.

Find out what other’s think and learn something new very likely.

Maybe I should not have shown my hand thru the course of the feedback. I apologize if anything herein was confounding or confusing. It seemed crystal to me.

blindjim,
Sorry if I misunderstood, but I just went back and read your original post again, and it certainly sounds like a hypothetical. I don't see you mentioning anywhere in the post that this is something that you are actually considering doing. 

Gryphon integrateds do have optional dac, not sure about Ypsilon. I have no idea of the US prices of Diablo 120 and Diablo 300, I think it's something like 9000 euros and 13000 euros respectively without dac plus VAT in Europe.