I assume spending $35k without further upgrades except cartridge and tubes for the next, say, ten years. That's tough and may not be enough even if you get almost everything used.
Roughly, $10k for the new table/arm/cartridge, $10k for the used speakers and $15k for the used electronics and cables. But when buying used one may get pleasant and unpleasant surprises in terms of prices, so those $25k might be spread somewhat differently.
Also, when setting the budget I always think that it might go 20%-25% up, and that could make a major difference. I would not save $2000 on tubes or $1000 on cartridge at this level. In your example I would probably be working within $30k-$40k range.
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Power first? I can understand that. I would almost certainly go with used Lamm, tube pre-amp and hybrid power amp. All tube VAC would probably be my second choice. I'll just mention two other companies that would be on my list, expensive and almost nothing used: Gryphon Audio - transistor, top level, and Ypsilon - hybrid, also top level.
Studer A810 would be a great choice, there is one on ebay for $5500, by the way. |
Gryphons are very powerful and stable. There are many demos and interviews with the designer, Flemming Rasmussen, on youtube. He sounds very serious to me. Ypsilon is an elite Greek firm, highly sophisticated sound. Their least expensive offering is a $25k integrated amp.
You might want to consider another company - Vitus, like Gryphon it's based in Denmark. Swiss always want double price for being Swiss.
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Of course, speaker/amp unit first is great approach. Problem is that most of us cannot get everything at once, sometimes it's too expensive and at other times you just can't find it quickly enough. Sound preferences also wildly vary. In a perfect world I would have two very different set-ups for different music, rooms and mood.
We can dream. How about Lamm/Kharma/Purist cables, Ypsilon/Lansche/HB cables and all Gryphon systems ? That's three, I know. |
Gryphon integrateds do have optional dac, not sure about Ypsilon. I have no idea of the US prices of Diablo 120 and Diablo 300, I think it's something like 9000 euros and 13000 euros respectively without dac plus VAT in Europe.
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This would be fine, but where do you get master tape dubbs of real music not junk ? And at what cost?
Besides, R2R machines need servicing.
I like tape too and I don't really like vinyl and all that associated stuff.
Yeah, "it's the tape stupid" . |
$200 on average is very high unless it is something like Bitches Brew by Miles or Inner Mounting Flame by Mahavishnu Orchestra or Wish You Were Here by Pink Floyd.
Still, I am thinking about Otari project for the future, or Sony pro. Studer A810 would be better but too expensive, though not as expensive as master tape dubs. |
Poetry is even more subjective than music, I think, I will not argue with that. As for music, WYWH music sounds more mature to me than anything before or after, though Hey You and Comfortably Numb ballads from The Wall are impressive, I'll give them that.
Yes, RTR decks.. The dream system - just a deck, preamp, pair of monoblocks and speakers.
At the very least I was thinking about putting everything valuable that I have on LPs and even CDs on tape and sell everything vinyl except the most valuable records. In fact, nowadays I listen to mostly my finely tuned Nak682ZX cassette deck except when I want maximum quality. No, even with Vertex cassette and supercables it can't capture everything from the Nottingham but RTR deck would. And I have couple of cassettes that I played more than 500 times, they still sound the same, though I never fastforward or rewind them. Try 500 plays with any vinyl. Anyone tried it? |
WYWH is their best album by far, in my opinion. Yeah, the recording quality is no good, at least that's what I hear on German record.
$200-$300 might be right, I wouldn't disagree. |
Blindjim, Gryphon Diablo 300 with DAC and possibly phono module too just in case. It will control the speakers like no other except Gryphon separates. Think of the speakers as a woman and amps as a man. It might not be the most beautiful song that will be sung but it will be the most clear open and confident. Gryphon. |
As for the speakers..
Of what I heard or heard of my two choices for you, as I understand what you want to accomplish, would be Lansche and Kharma. My choices for myself would be the same plus Michael Green Audio custom speakers. I would have Michael voice the speakers with either Gryphon or Ypsilon or Lamm.
Additional thought is that I heard of at least two very respectable and serious audiophiles, and talked to one of them, who can afford a lot, who have Allnic separates in their systems. From what I could get Allnic would be a little too soft and not strong enough for me even assuming the right match with speakers. VAC is famous for its midrange, which is great but not good enough for me. |
Gryphon or Ypsilon/Kharma match? I have no idea but somebody does. It appears that the Diablo only has stereo subwoofer and tape out. |
I mean, Gryphon will drive Kharma, no problem, and the sound will be excellent, just not necessarily the best to your liking possible. Gryphon also makes speakers, but this I know nothing about. Lamm doesn't make dac, Vladimir is very conservative, nor do Lamm preamps have onboard phono, but I remember you are not interested in it, certainly not an important point.
In any case, this company of Ypsilon, Gryphon, Lamm and VAC is a great one.
I do know that the Flemming of Gryphon likes large scale music, which is of course more difficult to record and reproduce. I think, though I am not sure, Vladimir is a classical music fan. You can ask him this too. |
I will !
I am not sure about Diablo, take a look at Gryphon website or you can just ask the US distributor - On A Higher Note.
But if you consider $28k retail line stage you could probably go significantly higher than with any integrated, though it would be 2-3 times the cost? If you do you should definitely also consider Lamm tube preamp and hybrid power amps. A word of caution - some or all, I am not sure, I just heard it, Lamm preamps need to be permanently powered on for the best sound. If not they need to be on for a few days before they reach this level. You can ask Vladimir of Lamm. Better Kharma/Lamm/Purist cables is a well known great system, but this doesn't mean your preferred system, and the bloody thing would really be expensive. There is a pair of Kharma for $33k here. But..in your place and with this budget going up and up, I would not buy absolutely anything before seriously auditioning Ypsilon electronics. |
Kevin of VAC very much likes JM Focal Grand Utopia speakers, $200k. I also know that Albert Porter, a member and a dealer here, has the same speakers with reference Allnic electronics. So perhaps you should consider lesser models if you want to go with either VAC or Allnic. There is something here on sale for about $7k if you want to consider used at all.
In any case, yeah, many possibilities. Lamm/Kharma, VAC/Focal, Ypsilon/Lansche and Gryphon/just about anything will all sound different and you might actually like them all, with preferences for different kinds of music and mood. Some people have two or three systems, you know. I am sure your Thor pre-amp can be matched to some hybrid or solid state, but you must be careful in terms of electrical compatibility. Yes, Lamm makes both hybrid and SE tube power amps. Some will say 'dry', others will say ' harmonically correct and balanced '. Also depends on speakers and cables, of course. VAC is more warm, Allnic is probably somewhere in-between Lamm and VAC, closer to VAC, but I never heard it. |
