$35K to spend, how will you build a system?

 jmcgrogan2 > Instead of the speaker first approach, or the amp first approach, I suggest the combo (speaker/amp) first approach.
Go out and listen to as many combinations as possible. Take your time. Maybe even allot $5K of your $35K on travel expenses.

Blindjim > John, thanks much. I believe we are on the same path here as your input stated.
The traveling aspect for me at least, is gonna be involve and expensive. Might just eat up all of that $5K. though I do feel its both a valid factor, and worth the expenditure.

Finding and then buying the rig I hear which sounds best, is quite likely that is what will take place. Its what I should have done 13 years ago when I first joined this site. The issue as is said below, was I could not afford the rig I heard which actually nailed my jaw to the floor. Well not completely.

Although, I did try to emulate it, piece by piece. Found out, it could be resembled, but not duplicated, unless I got the same gear. I did come quite close and ,was pretty happy about it before my world stopped turning for a while.


roxy54 > I think that the OP is just asking the question hypothetically for the sake of conversation.

Blindjim > “roxy54“, thanks, but not really. Some perhaps. Afterall, forums are all about conversations anyhow.

Its supposed to be two sided. There’s the part pertinent to me as I’m tentatively in this boat. Or am trying to be. Albeit, I’ve not much faith in putting together a serious contender, soup to nuts for under $40K addressing every facet of the system adequqately.

But let’s see what someone else says… and as such this thread came to mind.

Then there’s the part that back in ’03 – ’05 I was trying to figure all of it out from scratch. Not knowing anything of nearly any manufacturer or their models. Virtually knowing nothing at all about anything, but wanting to arrange a serious audio system, so this input affects those who are in the ‘boat’ with me eyeing a new arrangement, or just beginning to consider different themes on the same road.


inna > Of course, speaker/amp unit first is great approach. Problem is that most of us cannot get everything at once, sometimes it's too expensive and at other times you just can't find it quickly enough.
I would have two very different set-ups for different music, rooms and mood.

Blindjim > inna I think I got it. I liked what Fremer said about the Greek Alias monos, but at $30K plus. Yikes.

I’m a planner. I need to see the thing and get comfortable with it, before I try to get or do, the thing.
We ain’t talking buying a bag of burgers and fries here.

Even with ‘found or unexpected money’ once its in the pocket, pulling it back out is much harder.

2 systems. Yep. In a near perfect world, two very different outfits is the ticket. Well that and a kick ass HT rig. So, really it would be 3 rigs. Lol

A turn key setup. Now theres a decent idea. For amps and speakers only, that sounds more than very do-able. For the whole system, well, we’ll see what others say on it perhaps.

I did see a blurb on Andrew Jones ELAC stand mounted monitors which showed recently and gained loads of appreciation and the whole affair ran well under $35,000.00. well under. A highly touted power line conditioner at $5k was the most expensive piece in the array.

One idea right off was a system with one primary digital source (DAC) which doubles as a preamp, a quality Integrated amp and a pair of nice easily drivable speakers, floors or stand mounts. If the INT also has a competent DAC, the end of the road is quite close.

my dream is a living room with built-in Sound Labs or maybe some giant Quad

you could not see the 5 or 7 speakers but they are there in the walls

Of course, speaker/amp unit first is great approach. Problem is that most of us cannot get everything at once, sometimes it's too expensive and at other times you just can't find it quickly enough. Sound preferences also wildly vary. In a perfect world I would have two very different set-ups for different music, rooms and mood.
We can dream. How about Lamm/Kharma/Purist cables, Ypsilon/Lansche/HB cables and all Gryphon systems ? That's three, I know.

Gryphons are very powerful and stable. There are many demos and interviews with the designer, Flemming Rasmussen, on youtube. He sounds very serious to me. Ypsilon is an elite Greek firm, highly sophisticated sound. Their least expensive offering is a $25k integrated amp.
You might want to consider another company - Vitus, like Gryphon it's based in Denmark. Swiss always want double price for being Swiss.

I think that the OP is just asking the question hypothetically for the sake of conversation.

Instead of the speaker first approach, or the amp first approach, I suggest the combo (speaker/amp) first approach.
Go out and listen to as many combinations as possible. Take your time.
Maybe even allot $5K of your $35K on travel expenses.

Finding the right combination of amp/speaker interface will make the effort worthwhile.

It's a shame that you are already limiting your choices of amp by looking at more difficult to drive speakers. There are many high efficiency speakers that sound very good, and I would definitely not go the low efficient route until I had heard some high efficiency speakers with quality SET amps.

Listen to some Daedalus , DeVore, Tannoy, Klipsch, Tekton, Coincident, etc., with a quality flea powered tube amp.

You just may find that a pair of DeVore O/96's with a Shindo Cortese 300B amp MAY suit your tastes much better than your 89 dB - 4 ohm speaker combined with a push-pull KT88, or SS amp.

Of course you may also find that a  pair of Maggies with 200 wpc SS amp is what sounds best to you as well.

The point is that no one can tell you what will sound best to you, or how to spend your money.
I certainly wouldn't throw around $35K without doing my due diligence though.

Happy Hunting,
John

david_ten > 1. I'm not sure if your question is theoretical or this is something you are actually planning?
2 Reaching out to a promising kid and funding their education at a state school would be at the top of my list.
3 BTW, great …. thoughts on the rationale not to go speaker first.

Blindjim > your insights are more than appreciated. Tanks.
RE 1. Both. The thrust is one MUST throw the wad into their “NEXT” system now that they have some exp..
2. nice. Even found money would be tuff for me to be quite that altruistic.
3. it just makes more sense. Its when you get to the amp choice where things get interesting and your options begin to diminish, depending, because by then you’re closely eyeballing speakers, if not already..


Falconquest > I would invest the $35K and then purchase components gradually with the proceeds

Blindjim > Tanks. Killer handle! with today’s interest rates and the market stumbling along in a muddy ditch, that’s gonna take a long time before anything lands in the house. Maybe if you start flipping real estate things would be more hurrie.

OK…. NEW RULE
The targeted bankroll MUST be fully used to put together either a first, or as the topic implies, the NEXT outfit. In whole, or even partially.
OK? OK.


Inna > … I would almost certainly go with used Lamm, tube pre-amp and hybrid power amp. All tube VAC would probably be my second choice. I'll just mention two other companies that would be on my list, expensive and almost nothing used: Gryphon Audio - transistor, top level, and Ypsilon - hybrid, also top level.
Studer A810 would be a great choice.

Blindjim > that’s the spirit. Thoughts are immensely appreciated. Never heard of “Ypsilon”., I’ll look into that one.
Gryphon, the more I read about it and a couple other non mainstream electronics makers, hegel, Constellation, Wells, etc., the more I’m inclined to pursue it or them.

Most have a limitation for the speakers they can optimize however.

Yeah, I do get it, 80% of the music occurs in the first 20wpc. There is however a sincere argument for the application of very ‘strong’ as well as very well ‘voiced’ amps for any given speaker, apart from horns, for example.

Its why power lines from Aeon, Llamm, Audio Note, VAC, and the like give me some pause as the speaker short list is comprised of mostly 4 ohm speakerage. Otherwise, all are decent on the Eff side at 89 or above.
Incorporating one of their preamps though sure seems a viable option down the road. Right off, I have one I like from a now obliterated system which has seen no use for far far, too long.
I’m tired of hearing it wail on its lonliness and consequent plummeting self esteem from not having a job.

Power first? I can understand that. I would almost certainly go with used Lamm, tube pre-amp and hybrid power amp. All tube VAC would probably be my second choice. I'll just mention two other companies that would be on my list, expensive and almost nothing used: Gryphon Audio - transistor, top level, and Ypsilon - hybrid, also top level.
Studer A810 would be a great choice, there is one on ebay for $5500, by the way.

I would invest the $35K and then purchase components gradually with the proceeds leaving the initial $35K intact.

@blindjim 

You asked: " If you had it to do all over again, what do you put into a home audio system if you have $35,000.00 to spend?"

I'm not sure if your question is theoretical or this is something you are actually planning?

In either case, you asked what 'we' would do. In my case, I'd enjoy what I have and find another use for the $35K.

Education is a very high return investment. Reaching out to a promising kid and funding their education at a state school would be at the top of my list.

BTW, great post and thoughts on the rationale not to go speaker first.

ricred1 > …buy used. I would spend 10-15K on speakers.

Blindjim > pre-owned is a virtual certainty. Though not entirely. Sounds right on the spkr apportionment. Thanks much.


Inna > ….may not be enough even if you get almost everything used.
….when buying used one may get pleasant and unpleasant surprises in terms of prices
…. when setting the budget I always think that it might go 20%-25% up, and that could make a major difference.

Blindjim > TTs are off the table, so to speak, in my particular scenario. Ie., phono pre, carts, etc.
I feel the budget is not sufficient either despite the fact no vinyl is going to be a source. The prospect now of a RTR could well be however. I’ve not researched Reel To Reel tape in decades, though I did buy one in Italy way back when. TEAC middle of the line. RTR would be an afterthought and well down the road.
Thank you.


Bsimpson > always start with the speakers that are appropriate to the room size and fit your music taste.

Blindjim > thanks so very much. Agreed. Mostly. Hmm.

Here is where I always will disagree with the spkrs first theme. Principally, the decision on how to power the system comes first. Not the spkrs you like or even want. SET amps of 12wpc or so, even those with 100wpc or less, won’t get anyone too far with demanding spkrs. No matter how well they do with some other sorts of amps.
Consequently, it’s the tuype of power and its power output first, than speaker congruent or germaine to which ever power amp type is chosen , IF you want to really optimize the spkrs performance.
Then its their overall presentation using the chosen power plant..

Thereafter, if the spkrs do indeed fit the room, that’s another factor.

Everything can be in place but the fit to room usually makes or breaks the deal, unless one is not thinking with their head but with their heart.
Same thing goes for great sounding spkrs being driven by lesser powered amp of varying tuypes.

Few people would want a four cylinder motor in a brand new ‘Vette.

Beyond that, their sound is going to migrate with any changes upstream, if indeed they are transparent enough. Change to an upscale source and the sound changes. Change the amp or amp type, again, the sound and presentation from the spkrs also changes. Same for racks, cabling, PL conds, room treats, etc. “IF’ the spkrs are revealing enough.

With respect to the power supplying them, My tact on which spkrs I’d buy is simple, they need to be as transparent as possible, present excellent imaging, produce a legitimate or believeable stage, be well heeled with the bandwidth, and not look like someone put them together after they took a couple tabs of orange Sunshine.

To save on the spkr expense, adding subs is my usual path. Despite that thought, sometimes, and quite often subs are a must.


Czarivey > Roughly $30k for records and other media and $5k for the rest of stuff.

Blindjim > Excellent!!! Better yet, Jabbar BT Head phones, an Ipad, and subscriptions to several music streams. Total cost: $500 or less + music subs. $2K if you go with half and half on USB DAC and better HPs. Thanks. lol

I feel the conundrum for myself, is deciding which way to go with the power train. Tubes or not tubes. I enjoy both, but tubes have the lead. 60/40 or 55/45. And if a SS type amp or amps are the ticket, a tube preamp will more than likely be in the chain as I’ve not yet heard a fully non tube power line that really floored me… though one or two came pretty close. Regardless, $35K would not get me either of those systems.

Personal issues force the use of self biasing amps as well, so that furthers the mystery.

This theme ought to be interesting to see how others would approach things going forward.

Roughly $30k for records and other media and $5k for the rest of stuff.

I agree with ricred1 too ... always start with the speakers that are appropriate to the room size and fit your music taste.  

Then find the matching power amp.   The rest gets easier after that.

Cables would be 2nd to last.  

Room treatment / racks / isolation tweaks et al are more like icing on the cakes, and thus I tend to leave them the last.

I assume spending $35k without further upgrades except cartridge and tubes for the next, say, ten years. That's tough and may not be enough even if you get almost everything used.
Roughly, $10k for the new table/arm/cartridge, $10k for the used speakers and $15k for the used electronics and cables. But when buying used one may get pleasant and unpleasant surprises in terms of prices, so those $25k might be spread somewhat differently.
Also, when setting the budget I always think that it might go 20%-25% up, and that could make a major difference. I would not save $2000 on tubes or $1000 on cartridge at this level. In your example I would probably be working within $30k-$40k range.

Buy used or demo to make your dollar stretch farther. I would start with speakers. I would spend 10-15K on speakers.