Very common question with no consensus answer.
I would say that if you know what cable you are going to use, and you can afford it, run two separate runs. If 2 runs of a cable is out of your budget, then single wire and jumpers will do fine.
I'm sure that you will get others who will say differently. |
Electrically, no difference. Monetarily, 100% more expensive for 2 runs. Aesthetically/street cred 2 runs are cooler. But if your real goal is the best sound, 1 run is as good as 2. Save yer money for stuff that really provides a benefit, like better source material and room tuning... |
Well, in my system I've been able to compare single and shotgun versions of my cables, and I slightly prefer the shotgun configuration. But this is with my speakers and my cables, so your experience could be very different. The sound is a little more robust and forceful sounding with the shotgun setup, but the difference is small enough that if there was a shortfall in another component somewhere I'd start with single wire and put extra $$$ toward that instead. But if you go single wire try to use good quality jumpers and not the metal plates that typically come with speakers. If you still want to try shotgun I'd try to arrange to compare both configurations before committing twice the expense. Also, you may very well benefit more by just spending twice as much on another single wire cable rather than doubling up on a cheaper cable. But again that depends on the cable and possibly your speakers. Just my experience and recommendations, but opinions are all over the place on this topic as said before.
The only physical advantage I've heard in doubling the cable is a decrease in capacitance, which in theory should be a positive but I've no idea if it's enough to be meaningful or if it may have anything to do with the differences I hear in my system. FWIW, and best of luck. |
best if used bare wire going through both upper and lower terminals. |
I found the opposite to Czarivey, but that does not make their suggestion wrong.
It does vary from one case to another and there is not one solution for every possible cable/speaker combination
In my case, I found using quality all-copper bananas on the links provided better micro detail and better imaging, but that is with my cable/speaker combo.
Better still, use quality spades, provided you have quality terminals like those from Cardas - they clamp extremely well
Checkout Furez products at Douglas Connection - they are very good.
Also - DO NOT use those little metal links that are sometimes provided - unless they are very good copper/silver - try to use wire comparable to your speaker wire.
Best try it and see for yourself |
I found I liked a speaker cable that was very expensive and a double run was out of the question (Jena Labs). The only reason I could even consider the Jena lab moderately thin model was because some one was selling his at a fire sale price.
Subsequently I bought Cardas jumpers, believe it or not and like the overall effect. It was very coppery if I may say so. |
I have found a double run sounds better, but is usually not cost effective, unless you get it used at a good price. |
"03-24-15: Rlwainwright
Electrically, no difference. Monetarily, 100% more expensive for 2 runs. Aesthetically/street cred 2 runs are cooler. But if your real goal is the best sound, 1 run is as good as 2. Save yer money for stuff that really provides a benefit, like better source material and room tuning..."
Not true. There is an electrical difference. Also, on a speaker that is very sensitive to biwiring like my Vandersteen's, I can tell 100% of the time in a blind test. The difference is so big, its like swapping a component. |
03-24-15: Zd542
Not true. There is an electrical difference. Also, on a speaker that is very sensitive to biwiring like my Vandersteen's, I can tell 100% of the time in a blind test. The difference is so big, its like swapping a component. I'm curious Zd542 if you are comparing apples with apples. By this I mean are you comparing (2) $1000 cables to (1) $2000 cables? I was big on bi-wiring years ago, but as I started using more and more exotic cables, my sound got better and better. However, the prices are so high that I can no longer afford to bi-wire. I am much happier with the single run and a high quality jumper than I ever enjoyed with lesser wires in bi-wire format. Obviously, YMMV. |
03-24-15: Soix
The only physical advantage I've heard in doubling the cable is a decrease in capacitance, which in theory should be a positive but I've no idea if it's enough to be meaningful or if it may have anything to do with the differences I hear in my system. A technical correction to Soix's otherwise excellent post: Doubling the cable will double the capacitance, everything else being equal. That is true for both a shotgun configuration (both runs paralleled, i.e., connected to either the same or different speaker terminals but with the jumpers in place), and for a biwire configuration (the two runs to separate speaker terminals for the high and low frequency sections of the speaker, with the jumpers removed). Doubling the cable in a shotgun (parallel) configuration will cut resistance and inductance in half, which may be marginally beneficial if speaker impedance is low, or if the gauge of the cable is narrow (as it tends to be with many silver cables), or if the length of the cable is long. Doubling the cable via a biwire configuration will not affect resistance or inductance significantly, everything else being equal, aside perhaps to a minor degree at frequencies that are in the crossover region. What it is alleged to do is to reduce interaction between drivers. Some would also allege that it audibly reduces interaction between high and low frequency currents within the cable. See the paper linked to in the post by Tls49 here, and my subsequent comments on it. Regarding the specific question, with a 7 foot length of 9 gauge Anti-Cables Level 3, and with most and probably nearly all speakers and amplifiers, while I would not totally rule out the possibility I would not count on either biwiring or shotgunning as being likely to provide any benefit. Regards, -- Al |
Oops. Thanks Al. Interesting post as usual. It is indeed resistance I was trying to get at but failed miserably. |
Without prejudice to the effects that the absolute benefits are always system dependent, a large chunk of the high-end quality build brands are moving away from bi-wiring in favour of shotgunned runs and jumpers.
Biamping ... Different story.
E.g. NORDOST
http://www.nordost.com/downloads/NorseJ ... ctions.pdf
CHORD
http://www.chord.co.uk/help-and-informa ... ngle-wire/
".... Many hi-fi and home cinema loudspeakers have two pairs of binding posts. This allows the speaker to be either bi-wired using two sets of loudspeaker cable or bi-amped using two amplifiers.
As a general rule (and there will always be exceptions) we tend to find that bi-wiring will open out the sound stage and increase perceived levels of detail. However, single wiring will often sound the most musically coherent. There is also an issue with single and bi-wire speaker cables. In all the research we have carried out, a single wire speaker cable out-performs a bi-wire cable of equivalent cost. This makes a lot of sense; the single wire speaker cable has two high quality conductors and the bi-wire cable requires four. So for a given budget, we believe that a single wire cable will always out-perform the equivalent bi-wire cable, so much so that we no longer produce dedicated bi-wire cables..."
For me, shotgunned NORDOST Freys with matched FREY jumpers bested all comers , single, biwire or bi-amped . - full stop. The differences were not subtle.------ |
On a related topic - has anyone found any benefits, i.e. when using a single cable + wire jumper links, of "diagonal wiring"?
i.e.
- the neutral of speaker cable is attached to the bass set of terminals
- the signal (or +ve)is connected to the mid/treble terminals
- or the other way around.
Thanks |
Definitely 2 runs. Complex passages are no longer compressed and lyrics are easier to decipher. The improvements are immediately obvious and not a struggle to hear the differences.
2 runs are more EXPENSIVE but excellent ROI in my system. |
I guess it really depends on the speaker; two runs of speaker cables on my single post Avalon Ascendants was spectacular but two runs of cables on my Acoustic Zen Crescendos didn't yield the same results, jumpers worked better... |
"I'm curious Zd542 if you are comparing apples with apples. By this I mean are you comparing (2) $1000 cables to (1) $2000 cables?"
Sorry. I didn't see your question.
I used my Tara The 2 as the expensive cables. If I remember correctly, they were priced at about $3500 for a single 8 foot run.
I was going to use 2 runs of AQ CV-8, as the inexpensive cables, so I ordered 2 separate runs. Cost on those were about $1300. As luck would have it, AQ messed up and sent me 2 pairs of Type 6 instead ($400 both runs). They let me keep the type 6 until my CV-8's came. The $400 Type 6's easily beat the $3500 Tara. If I didn't hear it for myself, I would have never believed there was such a big difference. |
Zd542, don't let Audiolabyrinth hear you say that a $400 AQ cable beat his $3500 cable, he'll pop a gasket! LOL!
Congrats!! You are indeed lucky, I haven't been so fortunate. I have heard some great inexpensive wire, Cerious Technologies Nano Reference (CTNR), but my current reference is priced at $6300 for an 8 foot pair (High Fidelity CT-1E). I can't afford to biwire at those prices.
Yes, they do sound better than any biwire cables that I have tried, though I do have to admit that I've never tried any biwire cables that were priced at more than $3k for both runs.
The best I have heard in my system, to my tastes were the Acoustic Zen Double Barrel. Perhaps a double run of AZ Absolutes, or HFC CT-1 would be a fairer test to pit against the single run of HFC CT-1E.
I liked the CTNR better than the AQ Gibraltar speaker cable that I had, and it cost less than half the price. |
Agree with JMC and others on multiple points; it's a factor of the wire you choose. Having spent several years with full shotgun (double) runs, I can tell you that it can work VERY well for you as the lower effective gauge of a full shotgun run will reap dividends assuming the cable itself will pass the full frequency range well and there is time coherence (very important) across the shotgun.....I see mention of AQ Gibraltar; case in point, I had 4 very long runs of that cable for my HT LS/RS and LSB/RSB speakers and enjoyed what it brought very much however if I used it to wire mains and had no other choice, I'd run it shotgun for personal reasons. My main question is why not go for a better single run of cable and matching jumpers? This is a combination I've gone to over the last few years and won't be looking back... |
