In a sea of audio cable industry snake oil, we’re sure you’re wondering, What really matters when buying cables?Save your money by avoiding overpriced cables with outlandish claims. Below are some common myths to look out for and some important things to consider when buying audio cables.
CABLE MYTHS1. Conductor skin effect
In some applications like power transmission lines, an electric signal tends to travel through the surface of a conductor and avoids traveling through the center of the conductor. Many cable companies claim that their design limits the skin effect and measurably improves your sound.
The TruthWhile skin effect is a very real issue for large scale power transmission, audio signals are in such a low-frequency range that the skin effect is negligible at best. The skin effect is only an issue in high-frequency applications. 20kHz is the highest frequency that humans can hear. If we calculate the skin effect on a 12 AWG speaker cable like Gene from Audioholics does in this article, we find that the skin effect results in a loss of only -.014dB. Your speakers, room acoustics, and the human ear have a much larger effect on your sound than the skin effect. 2. Cable break-in
Don’t be fooled - any company that claims this thinks they can trick you into hearing better sound after a month or two. “Break-in” is a commonly used term throughout the industry. It is the idea that the dielectric of a cable changes and aligns itself to the electromagnetic field of the signal traveling through the conductors.
The Truth
There is no scientific evidence to support the idea of cable break-in, but there are still those who claim it improves sonic qualities. We’re not against optimism. We’re just not full of crap. Don’t drink the audio industry kool-aid and save your money for legitimate cables.
3. Cryogenic treatment
Cryogenic treatment is the process of freezing cables to -320 degrees Fahrenheit before use. The claim is that freezing the conductors of the cable at ultra low temperatures aligns the crystalline grain structure of them resulting in desirable improvements.
The Truth
Again there is no scientific data to support this notion. Cryogenic treatment can improve the durability of certain metals, usually steel, by stabilizing impurities. For example, the process is used to create strong tools or car parts.
But, steel is a terrible metal to use for audio cables. It is one of the least conductive metals out there! Copper and silver are the best conductors of electricity and the preferred metals for audio cables.
4. Cable signal direction
You might hear this phrase tossed around quite a bit. It’s the notion that a cable has an established signal direction, the direction in which it was initially used, and that this signal direction should not be reversed.
The Truth
The reality is, assuming the connector ends and terminals are the same, the cable will work in both directions and the performance will be equivalent.
5. Cable elevators, risers, or lifts
The claim is that the cables’ magnetic field can interfere with the surface it is laying on. Essentially, the magnetic field can “reflect” from the surface back into the cable and cause distortions.
The Truth
There is no evidence to support these claims, and these unnecessary devices are merely for looks. They are in no way proven to improve cable performance.
CABLE FACTS1. Shielding is Important
In the modern age, wireless signals are all around us all the time. The rapid growth and spread of technology means that these wireless signals will become more widespread and more likely to cause unwanted interference. Cellphones, wifi, and Bluetooth signals can enter your cables, but shielding can block these signals and preserve your sound quality.
2. Length is a Factor
No matter how well a cable is designed, cable length will always impact performance. As the length of a cable goes up, so does the risk of unwanted interference and signal loss. We always recommend keeping your cables as short as possible, but we understand that is not always possible. A well constructed and shielded cable will help combat this issue.
3. Conductor material plays a role
The best conductors to use for audio cables are pure silver or pure copper. Both are valued for their high conductivity, but copper is more widely used due to the high price of silver. Additionally, some variations are constructed with silver-plated copper. However, because the metals have different conductivities, the sound is more likely to travel through only the silver plating and not the copper.
The purity of the conductor will affect performance more than anything. Look for Oxygen-Free High Conductivity (OFHC) conductors. This means that a significant percentage of oxygen and other impurities have been removed from the conductor resulting in high purity.
4. Wire gauge should not be overlooked
The amount of wattage your system is using will determine the total gauge size needed for safe and optimal performance. The standard is 14 gauge wire minimum for the transmission of 250 watts of power. Many electronic devices use much less than this, but some speakers and listening setups may be using more. If your system uses more than 250 Watts, we recommend a higher total gauge cable.
5. Quality connectors matter
Truly, the best connectors are no connectors at all. But, if you can’t hardwire your system, gold plated connectors are the industry standard. Gold plating exhibits great corrosion resistance when exposed to oxygen and has good conductive properties. Connectors range from basic to extremely high end and flashy.
The bottom line is: Choose connectors based on your personal needs and the type of connection being made. Overall, always choose quality connectors.
We hope these myths and facts will help you choose quality, reasonably priced cables to complete your listening room, studio, or whatever your setup may be.
I think its been over a decade since WireWorld developed a Cable Comparator,a device that looks a bit like a joy stick, into which 3 or 4 cables can be connected. Then simply switch on the fly without plugging/unplugging to HEAR any differences
If all cable were manufactured to the extreme standards stated by bobe, then there should be little to no difference, and yet...
1.wire material (silver vs copper vs ...) 2.length (shorter is not better) 3.screen or not screened (depends from component) 4.coloured or not coloured (jacket) 5.bare wire connection or soldered or crimped 6.wire gauge (thicker is not always better) 7.construction (solid core, multistrand...) 8.any connector will do (no will not and better do not mix) 9.no break period needed (tell me this about power cables) 10.made in (really?)
I put my budget speaker cables back in and said OMG! They sound like S#!T! I can't explain the science design or anything else regarding cable, but they do make a difference.
I have a question, did you let your old cables settle in and hook them up the way they came off (end for end) and left to right. Did you take the old ones off and drop them in a box or wrap them up taking care of the ends more so... Tape them up..
I ask because, that ALL matters a whole bunch. I'm sure there was a big change, I just wonder why... I have swapped cables, tore the old out, and the new went in. Swap back and the old sound BAD... didn't before..
Now I just lay the cables back, bag the ends, install the new and let it all settle.. If I choose to A/B the cables, it takes less than a couple hours, for the old to settle back in... I can dress up the cable mess AFTER testing is done... Works for me a lot better....
Not sure if ShieldedCable has any credibility. For some reason, skin effect matters in conductor materials but at the same time saying skin effect does not matter. If the audio frequency is low enough that skin effect should not have any effect then why skin effect now matters in different cable materials.
I mean the conductivity of silver and copper should be very close to each other at 20KHz, but we all know they sound different.
Additionally, some variations are constructed with silver-plated copper. However, because the metals have different conductivities, the sound is more likely to travel through only the silver plating and not the copper.
Apparently ShieldedCable contradicted himself again. "Skin affect" shouldn’t matter, but only matters when it convenient for his agenda. What he said above is that because of skin affect, the current only travels on the surface of silver lols, so now all of a sudden skin affect matters.
Again there is no scientific data to support this notion. Cryogenic treatment can improve the durability of certain metals, usually steel, by stabilizing impurities. For example, the process is used to create strong tools or car parts.
Another contradiction. Cryogenic affects one type of conductor, but for some reason, does not affect another type of conductor.
It seems like ShieldedCable strategy backs fire big time.
GroverHuffman cables use a combination of embossed and flattened wire and flattened wire. It took years to determine the mix of the two, conductor materials and size of the conductors. Skin effect or not, these three wire parameters make a difference.
After making all sorts of Interconnects over the years, I agree with you (Shieldedaudio) about what’s relevant in IC design. I’ve never really heard a difference in copper quality! But silver (7% less resistance) can drive me crazy, it can be so bright! Maybe I just proved your point!
My current project (and hopefully, a big money maker,) is how to adjust/modify 1/2 in. dia. copper piping used for domestic water, in order to 'produce' a wetter water...you know, sometimes it is beneficial to have wetter water, for example you may take showers faster - thus saving lots of water...makes sense?...So...by reading some of the posts here, based on analogy of copper wires....can anyone make few of those sophisticated suggestions adopted for my 1/2 in. copper pipe?....I can promise, if this thing gets flying...I'll share my profits with you....I thank you in advance
When someone says they can't hear a difference this is evidence that they can't hear a difference. It is not evidence that there is no difference.
When someone says this or that can't explain why there should be a difference, this is not evidence that there is no difference. This is evidence that they don't know how to explain it.
When someone makes fun of something this is not to say the subject is a joke. All this shows is they would rather evade than address the subject.
Time in.
The fact remains that there are indeed differences between metals, and geometries, and insulators, and even things like cryo. Differences that can be heard. But not by everyone. A lot of guys simply have not yet developed the requisite listening skills. Some have not even tried.
Those who can't hear have all sorts of ways of evading the subject of their lack of ability.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled attempts at evasion, lame humor, and excuses.
rcbashaw525 posts04-11-2020 4:26amAfter making all sorts of Interconnects over the years, I agree with you (Shieldedaudio) about what’s relevant in IC design. I’ve never really heard a difference in copper quality! But silver (7% less resistance) can drive me crazy, it can be so bright! Maybe I just proved your point!
What's funny, you could be standing right,next to a person that loves that that blistering sound. Me I running I can't take it. I've never heard it from good silver wire (pure (er)) but copper/silver clad, and certain dielectrics/covers, sizzle my ears.
I found with NO covers, just bare wire in cable armor that "brightness" is gone for the most part. Something to do with how the conductor reacts with the the cover (dielectric) (not sure on the nomenclature). I've ran single wires no covers, in a harp like frame, and hooked one wire at a time end to corresponding end. Not a huge difference compared to wire with insulation/shielding covering them..
I tried; silver (sc), copper (sc and MS), copper/silver clad, alu, alu/copper clad, nickel/silver (sc), white gold (sc) lead/tin (solder. resin). SS (sc), mechanics wire, and a few other alloys. I found some pretty amazing stuff, especially with certain mixes..
When I use certain combinations of wire and certain networks, there are some REALLY neat changes... It thickens the sound, adds things that just aren't audiable before..
Again I must stress, A persons hearing is the key, it has to be good...at the least. Just like marksmanship, have to be able to see the target..right.... samo samo..Hearing, seeing...
Lot of the time the individual can NOT hear the difference...Doesn't mean others can't.. Take care of the ears girls and guys..... NO hair blowing BASS shows...LOL
As I read this all I can do is shake my head and laugh. In the '80's (yeah... last century) I was a recording engineer ate Quincy Street Sound in Albuquerque. A stupid mistake by one of the engineers rtesulted in blowing up the console power supply. I was tasked to rebuild it. I searched out the very best components I could to rebuild it (er, build a new 0ne) and upon firing the cansle back up, we all stood around in amazement at the improvement in SQ. We discovered in one instance the difference the best components can make in SQ. I then rebuilt all of the gear in the studio, one piece at a time except for the 200XL reverb, the LA-2A and Fairchild compressors and the API mic pres that we had. I swapped all of the coupling capacitors in the console (cheap, ROTM electrolytics) to Panasonic Z low impedance capacitors bypassed with low value poly caps on the recommendation of John Bau (look him up). I dove into dBx, Aphex and every other low priced piece of gear we had. We upgraded cabling from the old Belden patch cord standards to Mogami. Sara K's Gypsy Alley ( https://www.amazon.com/Gypsy-Alley-Sara-K/dp/B001BJ9ICA) one of the great recordings that came out after that. That album was mastered on a 14 (yep: FOURTEEN) bit Sony U-matic recorder. Even so, it still doesn't suck. Certainly not up to the quality of contemporary SOTA, but somehow still solid.
Anyone that states that "these things" don't matter are either ignorant, deaf, arrogant or needs a different profession/hobby/avocation.
Most people would believe that car engines need some breaking-in, but for some reason, people have a hard time of grasping the breaking-in of cables. Cables and engines are made of the same electrons, protons, neutrons and so on. Friction and heat apply to both - engines and cables. When two pieces of metal come into contact, it creates heat from friction. Same with electrons moving inside a cable. They generate heat from friction. Same exact thing. People can't visualize what's going on inside a cable because they don't have the background in electrical engineering so the whole thing seems mysterious.
Human beings are made of the same stuffs as well - electrons, protons, neutron .... You may not know it but humans have their own breaking-in as well... it's just more complicated and we usually don't call it breaking-in. We call it "aging" or some other terms depending on the type of "breaking-in".
andy2 Most people would believe that car engines need some breaking-in, but for some reason, people have a hard time of grasping the breaking-in of cables. Cables and engines are made of the same electrons, protons, neutrons and so on. Friction and heat apply to both - engines and cables. When two pieces of metal come into contact, it creates heat from friction. Same with electrons moving inside a cable. They generate heat from friction. Same exact thing. People can’t visualize what’s going on inside a cable because they don’t have the background in electrical engineering so the whole thing seems mysterious.
>>>>I hate to rain on your electrical engineering parade but electrons don’t move inside the wire, they are essentially motionless. Photons do move in the wire but photons don’t have mass so they can’t produce friction or heat.
I hate to rain on your electrical engineering parade but electrons don’t move inside the wire, they are essentially motionless. Photons do move in the wire but photons don’t have mass so they can’t produce friction or heat.
Whut? Photons have no mass and they don't move inside metal. I've heard your tired argument before. It's the electrons that move. What you said is crazy. Damn crazy.
Haven't you known it's the free electron that gave metal the characteristic of being good at transferring heat?
The free electrons in a conductor in an AC circuit move back and forth verrry slowly, a meter per hour. Net velocity equal zero. Whereas the signal itself travels at near lightspeed in wire. Now, think back to high school, which probably won’t be difficult for you, what is the only particle that can travel at near lightspeed in a conductor? Answer at 11. Besides your whole argument is moot because we know it’s the dielectric material that breaks in, not the conductor.
Now, think back to high school, ...what is the only particle that can travel at near lightspeed in a conductor?
Dude, that would be a THC particle traveling in the smoke from a one-hitter, its either that or an electromagnetic wave, I can't remember.....time for a brownie
Archimago goes into more thorough testing and analysis than I suspect anyone here would care to. So what does he have to say?
The entire article is just one more example of crystal lucidity in an area where it’s all too easy to get lost in deflections.
For those without the time to check the whole article here are his findings.
" V. Conclusions
Seriously folks, as you can see, there’s not much difference to find when measuring speaker cables unless we’re looking at something with exotic construction (like the Slinkylinks). I honestly cannot be excited by hype about special geometries, materials like silver vs. copper, audible differences with dielectrics, etc. (remember the comment about this in Vincent Verdult’s book I mentioned last week).
Ultimately, as a "component", speaker cable performance is governed by the basic LCR electrical values connecting amplifier and speaker - electrons don’t care if you spent $10 or $10,000. As usual, the ideal is to have "no speaker cable", so aim for lowest resistance, inductance, and capacitance in that order as discussed a few weeks back. Each parameter is already typically very low with reasonable cables.
If you’re starting out and want to get some cheap cables of normal length (like <25 feet), go for some inexpensive 12AWG OFC zip-cord like the KnuKonceptz Kord measured last time or some AmazonBasics 12AWG OFC probably would be great (I only measured the 14AWG version which was fine).
If you want to spend a few more dollars for higher quality and professionally made cables, by all means grab the very reasonably-priced cables I measured in this post like the NB Cables "The Vigilantes", Raymond Cables if you can find them, or make some Canare 4S11 cables with good connectors (or get the Blue Jeans 4S11 pre-made). Make some Archimago’s Colorful Cables if you want :-). These all sound as good as anything out there, can look beautiful, and IMO there’s no way you can improve on the sound unless you purposely want speaker cables with LCR values high enough to affect insertion loss, alter frequency response or ultra-high capacitance to risk high frequency oscillation!
The only situations I can think of where there might be a need for special types of speaker cables are if you need shielded wires in noisy environments to reduce picking up interference (check out some coaxial Mogami 3082’s, 14AWG, like these), or if you need SpeakOn connector cables used primarily in the pro audio world."
The only pure silver conductor cable I have is a 75 ohm SPDIF carrying a digital signal from transport to DAC. I was surprised that installing an all copper conductor and a mix conductor design cable made a small amount of difference (pure copper emphasized the lower mids while rolling off the highs/ambiance but still highly enjoyable with any of the three). Ordinarily, I hate pure silver conductor cables I've heard, as being too bright/tonally unbalanced in the analog realm. So, the type of conductor or mix can affect analog signals differently from digital signals as only an opinion from my experience.
The free electrons in a conductor in an AC circuit move back and forth verrry slowly, a meter per hour. Net velocity equal zero. Whereas the signal itself travels at near lightspeed in wire. Now, think back to high school, which probably won’t be difficult for you, what is the only particle that can travel at near lightspeed in a conductor? Answer at 11.
So what happens to your "photons" lols. At least now you realize it's the electrons that move. There's progress after all.
Besides your whole argument is moot because we know it’s the dielectric material that breaks in, not the conductor.
I am pretty sure you got it all figured out while everybody else is scratching their heads :-)
The fact remains that there are indeed differences between metals, and geometries, and insulators, and even things like cryo. Differences that can be heard. But not by everyone. A lot of guys simply have not yet developed the requisite listening skills. Some have not even tried.
Ah, the logic of the Golden Ears. "If only you my had ears to hear!"
Millercarbon, I’d like to enlighten you: You should try swapping your expensive cables for radio shack zip cord, and get rid of all those cable risers.
When you do you SHOULD be able to hear the addition of timbral accuracy, harmonic richness, purer highs and extended soundstage and transparency.
I can hear it. It’s just AMAZING. They MUST have put something special in that zip cord because, whatever you may say it’s made of or however it measures, the ultimate test is HOW IT SOUNDS and my ears don’t lie! It finally releases the potential of a hi-fi system.
If you try the zip cord and don’t hear the exquisite upgrade in sound I hear...it can only mean you have not developed the requisite listening skills. And I feel sorry for you. Keep listening, keep improving your skills, and maybe one day you will join us in the Platinum Ears Club.
prof is being prof, which is short for professor, which is what he fancies himself. The reason you aren’t sure is proof he’s not only tin-eared but a lousy writer to boot. It is not easy to write so much and say so little. Even the emoticon, no one can tell which is sarcastic, the text, the emoticon, or both. Or neither. Oh well. Who cares? Its prof. ;-)
Back in the early 80's, I went from zip cord to Audioquest speaker wire. There was NO contest. Since then, I've changed speaker wire about half a dozen times. I installed the Audioquest back into my system about 15 years ago to see how well it held up compared to my then current wire. Not bad. Zip cord-yuk!
It's true that electrons move relatively very slowly, but it's the electron wavefront that moves close to the speed of light. It's like open up your water faucet and the water comes out instantaneously.
"Ah, the logic of the Golden Ears. "If only you my had ears to hear!"
Millercarbon, I’d like to enlighten you: You should try swapping your expensive cables for radio shack zip cord, and get rid of all those cable risers.
When you do you SHOULD be able to hear the addition of timbral accuracy, harmonic richness, purer highs and extended soundstage and transparency.
I can hear it. It’s just AMAZING. They MUST have put something special in that zip cord because, whatever you may say it’s made of or however it measures, the ultimate test is HOW IT SOUNDS and my ears don’t lie! It finally releases the potential of a hi-fi system.
If you try the zip cord and don’t hear the exquisite upgrade in sound I hear...it can only mean you have not developed the requisite listening skills. And I feel sorry for you. Keep listening, keep improving your skills, and maybe one day you will join us in the Platinum Ears Club.
;-)"
Ah yes, these wonderful cable threads defy all logic, don’t they, as they oscillate between what Neil deGrasse Tyson calls personal truth and objective truth.
He also mentions a third form, political truth - but that one might be better left for Coronavirus/conspiracy threads.
Personal truth is all well and fine in audio, but all too often when it’s presented as objective truth there is nothing else than personal opinion to back it up. Who needs to look at resistance, inductance and capacitance when you can muddy the waters with the ephemeral 'skin effect' and unproven directionality?
By the way prof I understand your zip cord is obviously phenomenal sound wise, it must be because you told us, but is it directional (just in case), and what insulation material does it use?
heaudio123 The signal doesn’t travel in the wire, it travels in the field predominantly outside the wire and typically only at about 60-80% of light speed but in some cables as much as 90%.
Individual electrons may move slowly, but they all in the cable move at once limited by the speed that the field propagates.
Whereas the signal itself travels at near lightspeed in wire.
>>>>You are mistaking the elements of the signal for the signal itself. Only some elements of the signal - e.g., induced magnetic field - have locations outside the conductor. Who cares how fast electrons travel? They only carry the charge. Hel-loo! If the signal didn’t travel in wire then it wouldn’t matter what metal you used or the purity of the metal or the directionality. Hel-loo!
I can't even imagine spending the amount of money that some people do for their cable. Insane. I'll walk with shieldedaudio on this topic any day of the week.
By the way prof I understand your zip cord is obviously phenomenal sound wise, it must be because you told us, but is it directional (just in case), and what insulation material does it use?
All that stuff doesn’t matter. I mean, it’s always enticing if there’s a technical story for my wires, but ultimately I’m not trying to help verify my subjective impressions with measurements or technical mumbo jumbo. All that counts is what I hear.
And my ears tell me that when I did a shoot out between zip cable and various brands like Nordost, the upgrade in sound quality with the zip cord was obvious. Like, it’s a joke if someone tries to tell me otherwise because I heard it so obviously.
To those who are skeptical about zip cord sounding so much better than expensive audiophile cables: HAVE YOU TRIED IT? If not, you have no grounds for voicing an opion.
But if you have tried it and tell me you don’t hear the superiority of zip cord, then all that tells me is you are not a very acute listener.
I feel sorry for those who say "I can’t hear the increase in transparency, richness, detail, soundstage etc" with zip cord. The best explanation has to be that they just haven’t developed their hearing skills like some of us have. But those who know....know. :-)
To those who are skeptical about zip cord sounding so much better than expensive audiophile cables: HAVE YOU TRIED IT? If not, you have no grounds for voicing an opion.
Of course I tried it. Zip cord was all we had back in the day. Its what we all used. Its what Julian Hirsch had us all convinced was all anyone needed. Learning that expensive audiophile cables are in fact superior and worth the money was neither pleasant nor desired. Because like everyone else I would rather have better sound for free.
But this was not to be. First zip cord was compared to shot-gun zip cord. This seemed unlikely but cost next to nothing so I tried it. Sure enough, better. Not a lot, but enough to notice. The fact this simple test proved a difference means if you follow the evidence then you have to keep following it.
A whole series of cables were compared. The best were chosen from among many. The most expensive were not always the best. Sometimes much less expensive cables were far better. The differences were in all cases easy to hear. Never once in at least a hundred comparisons was it the least bit difficult to hear differences. It was never even that hard to decide which among several was the best.
Its been posted here before but bears repeating in the current arrogant obstinance that my first serious comparison between freebie and spendy cables was so startlingly glaringly obvious I thought I had somehow accidentally broken the dealers amp. That's how great the difference is between free crap and quality wire. That's how easy it is to hear.
But if you have tried it and tell me you don’t hear the superiority of zip cord, then all that tells me is you are not a very acute listener.
Acute means sharp. Did you know that? I have to wonder. Because, if there's one thing all the above (and some three thousand posts) demonstrates its sharp listening skills. What you mean is you prefer zip cord to better wire. Well if that's your preference, fine. All this really tells me is you are not a very acute writer.
Well imagine that, Prof is being a comedian! Admittedly, most everything he wrote in the last couple posts has been written before, but he is using it nonetheless. Also... Did I read that correctly... Did he actually admit to hearing a difference in wire? Who would have thought... Thanks for the laugh Prof!
A whole series of cables were compared. The best were chosen from among many. The most expensive were not always the best. Sometimes much less expensive cables were far better. The differences were in all cases easy to hear. Never once in at least a hundred comparisons was it the least bit difficult to hear differences. It was never even that hard to decide which among several was the best.
What a coincidence. That’s pretty much my experience comparing the radio shack zip cord to the top of the line Nordost and the Synergistic Research cables (Element Copper Tungsten Silver Speaker Cables, IIRC;p)
The superiority of the zip cord cable was so obvious - made the Nordost and Synergistic Research cables sound "broken."
The problem is that some people can spend a long time in this hobby, even listening to different cables, and never really end up developing the requisite listening skills. I can’t really help those that haven’t reached the level of acuity necessary to hear the superiority of zip cord speaker wire.They can claim they don’t hear the superiority, but, again, that isn’t evidence I’m not hearing it. It’s just evidence to me that you and others aren’t capable of hearing what I can hear.
But after starting with zip cord and moving on to try all the expensive stuff, once you come back to zip cord you’ll realize like Dorothy said "There’s No Place Like Home."
I can't decide whether prof trying to be funny or just trying to be serious. Something initially may be cute, but after awhile it does get tiresome.
Why would anyone gone through all the trouble trying to prove zip cord is just as good?
I once was using some inexpensive Blue Jeans cables and thinking those were pretty good. I then bought some decent QED cables and the difference was night and day. OK may be the difference was night and early morning, but enough that I would not use Blue Jeans cables any more.
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