750$ Intel NUC vs $6000 Aurender N200: I don't hear the difference

This discussion is interesting for me at the moment because I just ordered me the Antipodes K50 music server/player after much research and deliberation- and much discussion with my wife. I am resolved to use the 30 day trial period to my full benefit although my dealer is nearly certain I will not be returning it. We’ll see. It should arrive this Monday, weather permitting. I picked the K50 because of its high end USB output. My AC Hele’ne DAC is optimized for USB but also has SPDIF inputs with reclocking capability. I also like the idea that this server/player, the K50 splits the tasks of managing streaming/ library functions and playing between one high powered computer and one low powered computer.

So why am I doing this? Curiosity and the pursuit of better sound. I currently use a RS9 music server (similar to a Nucleus +) running Roon. I have a LPS connected to it and I use sliver plated ethernet cables feeding it through two audio grade network switches in series. The sound of streaming is top notch- very, very good. I even put a high end power cord on the LPS and heard a difference. I can’t imagine the sound getting better, but I have to know.

I want to find out if mdalton’s theory is correct. I’m not so sure. The old adage, garbage in, garbage out might still apply even with high end DACs. No question that the music coming in from the Web is full of garbage. And many of us have learned that progressive filtering out of that garbage through better modems, routers, power supplies, switches, cables, reclocking, etc improves the sound of streaming. How good can it get? I want to know.

Tony…my suggestion is to spin the Antipodes 24/7 and don’t judge it until around a 200hr mark. Have both spdif and usb connected. Make a playlist consisting of all bit rates and put it on repeat. 

@essrand, you’re very welcome sir. I stream almost 100% of the time now because of the convenience factor. At 67yrs old I no longer wish to spend my free time going through my thousands of old scratched up LPs and CDs to find one particular album or song. I built my system specifically for the sound signature of my Chord Hugo TT2 DAC and Chord m scaler upsampler. Most of my cables, interconnects, power supplies, the network switches, and passive RFI/EMI filters like my ENO System Ag, were chosen not because they’re the most expensive, but because they sounded the best to my ears. 
 

 I was searching the interweb the other day looking for more information about the Nagra Tube DAC and how others implemented it into their audio setups, and I came across a similar discussion on The What’s Best Forum from you I believe. Let me just say that the level of decorum and deference there was quite in opposition to the expletive flavored rants posted here on Audiogon. 

@audphile1 That could have been clearer, I agree :) I had just typed it all out in the etherregen forum on AS. I might as well copy and paste it here too. 12 hours later it still amazes me the size of the sound improvement; and I thought I had good noise free internet!

 

"I first posted my listening impressions here 2 years ago, only 2 pages ago (page 57). Not much action since then I see. I have made many changes in my system last year: I since acquired a newer better built version of hypex amplifier, a better power conditioner, a higher resolving DAC, and have some more expensive and better sounds cables. 

 

Additionally, regarding the streaming/etheregen I previously simply had an Amazon cat 6 cable from router to etheregen, then cat 6 direct to DAC. I now have cat 5 to Cisco 2960 from the router, then optical to etherregen, then Audio Sensibility Supra ethernet to my Weiss 501. The etherregen is also powered by a Plixir BDC connected with an Audio Sensiblity copper DC cable. 

 

I had the Plixir LPS kicking around after selling my exasound player, so I decided to keep it and try it on the etheregen before selling it. I most recently added optical line as many have claimed it improving SQ. The DC cable that came with the Plixir didn't fit in the etheregen, so I ordered one from Audio Sensibility. 

 

With my new DAC I thought possibly it does a better job filtering compared to the older DAC, as this higher-end DAC has its own in house built power supply and renderer, so anything else in front of it might not be needed. So I just decided to unplug the etheregen/Plixir/optical/AS cat cable and go direct from the Cisco switch with the cat 6 cable to the Weiss and compare. 

 

Well turns out I'm keeping everything. I am shocked. The difference is HUGE. I just read my post from 2 years ago, I stated yes it made a difference, but it wasn't huge. I have since thought to myself over the past 2 years for the $700 US yes it made a noticeable difference, perhaps significant in how it smoothed out the treble, but I always thought a $700 upgrade in cables may have been money better spent. 

 

Keep in mind I didn't just buy this and post 2 hours later saying "OMG, this is night and day!" like we read from posters many times. I have owned this etherregen and it has been plugged in my system for 2 years,  🙂 But I will restate- it is unbelievable what a difference it makes. 

 

Track: LIberty by Anette Askvik: it takes about 3 seconds to hear the difference- with the etheregen (etc.) the song begins with there is swirling of sounds, finely resolved drums and various other percussion, in 3d space, and then her voice is beautifully and naturally rendered in space. The sax sounds sublime. Exceptional recording. With ER and everything removed the whole soundstage collapses- it becomes 2D-  the swirling is gone, there is just so much less to hear- her voice is sibilant and much less realistic. The sax first seems like it has more air, but the 'air' is distortion-poorly resolved air, and it no longer suspends itself in its own space, it falls flat. Seriously, it is obvious in mere seconds. If anything I thought it would be much harder to discern any differences. Now, it is not just a layer of grunge getting removed, but the whole soundstage undergoes a massive change, and with the ER/attachments my DAC goes from sounding like a $1000 player to the $10000 player it is supposed to sound like. 

 

Here is another way to define the difference: that track Liberty, using just Amazon cat 6, I listen, and about half way though I have the desire to stop it and put on a more familiar track. With the ER/Plixir/fibre I listen from start to finish, and then have the desire to listen to the track again. And again. So much more music is gained- so much more engaging. 

 

I am not inclined to see which part contributes to what particular percentage of overall improvement (etherregen 70%, LPS 20%, optical 5% Cisco 5% etc. ) I just wanted to know that this money spent for these streaming "tweaks" or components positively affect the sound quality compared to not having them. Yes, unequivocally! 

 

So I am happy! First because my ears are better than I thought they might be, and because I trusted many in this thread and bought this switch. Like we all know, the higher the quality and more resolving one's system the easier it is to hear differences. And I keep reading from those with much more experience than I, when it comes to streaming "everything matters".  "

 

 

 

 

@audphile1 

I’m sure it was unintentional but you misrepresented my position.  I absolutely agree that different DACs sound different, and that the oft-cited measurements of DACs (e.g., by ASR) are woefully inadequate to accurately representing the complexity of the differences in sound.  But the process involving streamers - right up to where a data stream is introduced to the DAC - strikes me as fundamentally different.  There’s digital data, there’s jitter, and other sources of noise, and for these, there are rather straightforward measures.  I base this on my review of a significant number of what I believe to be credible sources - engineers, designers, etc. - who are infinitely smarter than me on the topic.  

 

I don’t think saying “everything matters” is a rigorous first principle.  A/B comparisons are really, really hard; aural memory sucks; confirmation bias is real.  I don’t fault people who think they hear differences where I doubt they exist.  I believe they are earnest and well-meaning.  We make these same mistakes in all walks of life - our views of people, politics, sports.  But I’m a big believer in starting from a shared set of facts - truths if you will - and I see an opportunity for one here.  So while our failure to come to agreement on this one isn’t a threat to democracy, I do thing it’s a lost opportunity.  

So let’s just agree to disagree, and agree not to move towards tribalism.  (Not saying you were, btw.)  And thanks for your engagement with me, and more importantly, the op.