For some reason I've ttally overlooked these speakers. I've seen them mentioned many times and am unsure why they didn't catch my attention until now.
Anyhow, I'm very curious. I am currently running a pair of Usher 6381's. Has anyone listenedd to both the six series Ushers and the Druids? I'd love to hear your observations.
These appear to be basically a horn type speaker in the way they function. Do they have a sound similar to that of say the Klipsh heritage series, or am I way off bass?
I once owned a pair of LaScallas that I loved, but just could not put up with the size. These have peaked my interest.
Hello everyone; I'm still here, but have just been reading a learning.
I appreciate the debate about this speaker and have not taken offense to anyone's post and hope no one else has either. Good spirited debates like this can be very helpful IMO. I'm learing much from both camps.
I know of no other speaker that could generate this many comments. I also know of no other speaker that seems to be at both extremes in people's opinions. I'm intrigued to say the least.
After vacation I may order a pair just to see. I don't mind paying the shipping, but my only concern is that I might not have enough time to get these broken in properly. One thing everyone seems to agree on is the long break-in period.
Please don't stop. It seems that I'm not the only one that's interested and this has turned into a very nice thread IMO.
I would be interested to hear what type of music you guys listen to. Perhaps this might tell something about this speaker as well, i.e. rock guys like them; classical guys don't.
Just wish there was an easier way to audition.
Once again, thanks so much for your time and responses. They are most appreciated.
Good suggestion,Tvad. I think I read somewhere (6moons?)that Zu has started to break-in all of their speakers prior to shipment. Best to confirm that with Sean or Adam rather than just believing me. And by the way, everybody, what's wrong with buying your speakers because you think they're cute or they match your vest or the butcher has a pair? We audiophiles make this kind of selection a matter of life and death. And we battle over a hair's breadth of difference between two products both of which stand a mile above Bose. I think our anal obsession may be a good part of what keeps non-audiophiles from enjoying the music. For me this is a passtime, not a sacrament.
I read elsewhere they only did this with their top of the line model. If I decide to order I'll find out for sure.
I love the sound of my Ushers, but because of my living room and the big entertainment center, they're a beach to place. The slant and size make it difficult for me to get them out into the room where they can breath without the wife throwing a fit.
I was thinking the depth of the Druids might actually work to my advantage. I'm also seriously kicking around the idea of just turning this system into a HT and using a spare bedroom to set up a two channel rig.
Problem is this room is only 13'6" X 12'6" so the 6381's are a bit big, but the the Druids would probably fit in either situation. This would mean some major moves.
Oh no, am I looking for an excuse to upgrade yet again? :-)
I agree that your room at those dimensions are not doing the Ushers well. One thing I wanted was a better near field speaker, and would say that the Druids fit that requirement very well. My room is 19 x22 x 8 and I still thought the Ushers ( both 81's and 71's)could benefit from a larger space
Some interesting comments no doubt from all of us above, and we are glad to help. Let us all know what you ultimately wind up doing.
+++Broccoli gives me gas.+++ I'm having that reaction to all the chatter about "measurements". Lab measurements are so very useful-if everyone who bought the speakers set them up in an anechoic chamber with no furniture. I wouldn't find music nearly as entertaining watching it on a 'scope. IMO.
Kehut, I don't think I got my point across correctly in my previous post. I don't have the Ushers set up in the small room, they are set up in my living room which is much larger ~ 18' X 22' with 14' ceiling and an open floor plan.
I'm considering using the the small room for a dedicated two channel rig and using my living room for HT only.
BTW, I'm one who really doesn't care much about specs. I've seen too many products that spec well, but sound like crap and vice versa.
I am a ZU distributor and believe I can shed some light on the discussion. I also distribute a couple of award-winning speaker brands, highly regarded by the press and owners. Those other speakers are 3 way, with 12 db and 6 db crossovers. Each speaker sounds unique and each is the right speaker for one consumer, maybe the wrong speaker for his next-door neighbor.
First, anechoic measurements are fatally flawed in terms of predicting the listening experience. There are a few reasons: Some audiophiles listen with a detail-oriented, HI-FI-ish mood and pay lots of attention to frequency response, soundstagind, detail and colorations. The most reliable measurement that I know to assess HI-FI "behaviour" of a speaker is room-averaged response from several mike positions. However, there is no universally accepted standard to measure in-room bass. If a speaker looks bright or boomy in those room-averaged graphs (like JA does for Stereophile), it will (in my experience) sound bright or boomy in a typical living room. However, that's in-room frequency response, only one of many speaker performance yardsticks.
Music is not made of frequency response only. Live music has rythm, pace, timing, tone, DYNAMICS, emotion, a believable soundstage and coherence. Most of those atributes are impossible to measure with today's measuring equipment. Maybe dynamics can be measured.
In summary, if you crave for music and tone, there is a high probability that you will enjoy Zu speakers (or Lowther, Fostex, etc., though those sound to my ears more like an attempt to bridge the gap between tone and frequency response). Adam and Sean deserve greater recognition for achieving GREAT tone within a reasonable budget and FOR NOT fallling into the frequency response trap. I have opened up my ZU speakers. The cost of achieving HI-FI-ish frequency response is just a a couple of caps and resistors in the crossover, however making those changes will throw out the baby with the bathwater. I know from hands-on experience. Just for fun, on a rainy weekend, I calculated a theoretically frequency-perfect crossover and installed it on my personal Druids, then measured them with a 31 band real-time analyser...great treble, lots of detail, smooth midrange response, but the additional reactive components killed tone and coherency when listening to music, not test tones or pink noise. In summary, Zu speakers convey a different musical experience, which may take a few days to get used to. Once one gets used to them, HI-FI speakers sound unrealistic, constrained in dynamics, tipped up and not coherent. Others may never like Druids and I respect those opinions. Spouses, shoes and speakers are very personal choices.
IMO, most of the advice in this thread is correct, however there are a few misunderstandings: -measurements do not tell the whole story; science is no substitute for a test drive (says Porsche); -most speakers are measured on a specific axis (that's the frequency response you see on the marketing brochure)... off-axis, most will have A LOT of ripple due to dispersion anomalies, refraction, cabinet edge difraction and frequency beating/cancelation between drivers; -the Druid's internal path length is about 40 inches, the cabinet height; -The Druid is a slot-loaded speaker, not a tuned pipe; -yes, its bass varies with room placement, however, it changes mostly in bass quantity, very little in bass quality, as compared to resonance-based bass alignments. Four inches can make or break a bass-reflex or passive radiator speaker's bass. It may sound too lean or boom unbearably. The Druid does not change much its bass quality from 10 inches away from the back wall to a yard or two into the room. Also, IME, it does not boom or resonate in the bass, unless one uses a poor amplifier or bad recording. In summary, the advice given by several posters: try them and if you like them, keep them...is sound advice (pun intended).
Casouza, thanks so much for this informative post. I could care less about measurments, only the sound.
I'm not sure I know what you mean when referrng to the tone. I like the sound of the real thing for sure, but I also like hearing the details. After all, Bose claims to reproduce the "live" sound. I'll leave it at that. :-)
I'm still curious to know if this speaker favors a specific type of music. Do those who like them prefer rock or classical? And how about those who who dislike them? What kind of music do they prefer and what don't they like (measurments aside)?
My old Klipsch LaScalla's measured poorly at both ends of the frequency spectrum and I loved their sound.
BTW, I'll be traveling on vacation next month from Texas to Vegas to San Diego and back (driving). Anyone know of a store along this route where I might be able to audition the Zu's? I realize there are very few dealers, but thought I would ask.
Casouza, thanks so much for this informative post. I could care less about measurments, only the sound.
Jack,
Exceptional speakers do not need to be reasonably flat with wide dispersion to sound good. You are right to care only about the sound. Let us know how the Zu's sound if you get to audition them. I enjoyed your review of Energy Veritas a while ago. Good luck and enjoy your vacation! (BTW: Las Vegas Pro Audio is on your route - might be worth your time as the live, dynamic or impulse response that Casouza describes as a feature of the Zu's is also a trait you can often find in pro audio gear)
Thanks for the highly informative post, Casouza. Obviously I was wrong in my guess about the construction of the Druid, and I appreciate your setting the record straight.
OK Guys, I already took the plunge. I was looking at speakers on ebay and found that Zu had a limited number of the Druids on sale for just two grand so I jumped on it.
I tried to call them to verify that these were in fact their latest model, etc., but it was too late so I just went for it.
I also still want to find out if they will be broken in before shipping.
Anyhow, I'll let you guys know how things turn out.
Sure hope someone buys my Veritas' soon before my wife kills me. Ushers, Veritas and Druids for one room. ;0)
Congrats Jack!...They are the latest Druids. Zu is selling the remaining stock of matte black and will be going to gloss black production as well as the other colors. But, the matte finish has ended, thus this sale it appears. I dont think the 60 day refund applies(I didnt see that it the ad... could be wrong on that..) however you can verify that with Zu. Either way, you can always sell them for your paid price(or close to it)..let us know how they sound. I believe Zu breaks them in for ~100 hours in-factory, but you will definitely want to get at least 200 hours logged on them to sound very good.
Congratulations. I look forward to reading your review of the Zu's (please?). I certainly enjoyed the review you did of the Veritas 2.3i - judging from that review I expect you will be rather sorry to see them go.
Great to see that you have such confidence in the comments here. I have only once ordered a speaker without an audition of the specific model and I based my decision on the speaker user list (well known musicians) and knowledge of the manufacturers other designs rather than a forum thread. Kudos to you, as they say "Nothing ventured nothing gained!"
Shandorne, thanks, but it's not really that big of a risk. They have a 60 day in home trial and if I don't like them all I lose is shipping cost.
I will indeed be sorry to see the 2.3i's gone. They're a very special speaker for sure and one of my all time favorites. But, they were detrowned by my 6381's and as I said, we'll see how the Druids match up.
I wish I had the money to try everything and keep most.
You know how it goes. Always looking/listening. One day I will find the holy grail.
Also still looking for the "right" CDP, pre-amp, etc. but, that's another story. :0)
I've had the Druids in my system for three days now. They are different from any other speaker I've heard. When hearing them for the first time I was not impressed. It sounded like they were distant, no bass (didn't have the spikes installed), and just bland.
My initial reaction was that I couldn't see how anyone could like these speakers. But, then things started to change. I don't know why and have no idea how to explain it.
I played them very loud for a good period of time and they seemed to just open up. I started to hear the magic others have raved about. Voices and instruments have a realness that I've not experienced before.
As expected, the bass is not extended and it's obvious the bottom octave is missing. Wierd thing is I could care less. The bass is there and sufficient for most music. As a matter of fact, it's much better than I expected. I used my SVS sub (not a good sub for music) cut @ 40Hz, but found I prefered not to use it.
If I were to compare them to my Ushers (CP-6381) and describe them in audiophile terms, they would not hold up.
They don't have the bass extension or detail, they don't image as well, don't have the soundfield width or depth, don't have the separation or air around the instruments, the highs are not as extended and are some what reticent, they look cheap in comparison, etc. etc. And, for these reasons I fully understand why many do not find what they're searching for.
However, what they are is dynamic, musical, and real. They make music fun again! It sounds like your listening to the real thing and not a stereo system. Just incredible! Once I start listening I don't want to stop.
I like them very much right now and if they're going to improve as they break in, then all the better. I've tried them with every type of music and liked it all. Bad recordings still sound like bad recordings, but maintain the realness. I think this is what others have described as accurate tone. Not sure what the correct term is, but I like what I hear.
I think their stated efficiency is a bit exagerated. They are rated ~ 13 dB higher in efficiency then my Ushers, but in reality they play only slightly louder with the volume at the same level. Perhaps this is because of the much higher impedance. I don't know, but I really really don't think I could use a low powered tube amp in my room.
I'll do an in-depth review and post in the review section when they're fully broken in. I just wanted to follow up with my initial observations.
Bottom line, IMO; if your a music lover you will like these speakers. If your an audio system lover you might not.
Mine will not be going back and the Ushers will be up for sale. And I really like the Ushers.
Appreciate your post regarding your initial perspective of the Druids sound. Thanks for sharing.Its obvious you hear some of what they do very well in terms of harmonic coherency and tonal truthfullness.
I find it interesting also your noting that at this point they wouldn't hold up to the Ushers in terms of bass extension (agree with that, hands down)..but in terms of "bass detail.imaging, soundfield width or depth,seperation or air around the instruments" to para quote... I found just the opposite in my experience//The Ushers were way too "hi-Fi", laid back, and were quite image challanged compared to the huge soundstage and depth of the Druids..Not to disagree with your findings, as your system and room are different than mine of course as well as equipment..
I will say that paired with a very good SET amp such as my Dared 845..the match is heavenly and just blows past anything I had with the Ushers at any point.
I suspect( and as you rightly mention) you need lots of break-in time and tweeking. Its critical (Very critical in fact) to size the gap at the base plates so allow the bass to work properly. Too much gap = bass overhang and is un-tuneful..to little= lack of bass and thin sound. Get the gap right and its well balanced, tuneful and just right. I used the jewel case of a cd to adjust to its height..very much like a feeler guage..this way I knew I was accurate and matched. Make sure they are at least 4 or more ft from the front wall..this really get them a huge soundfield and depth. In my set up..I towed them just to the outside of my ears..I could just see the inner sides of the speakers as I sat in the sweet spot.In my set up..this "locks" me in so-to-speak.Excellent!
Last week,I added Zu's mini method and I am thrilled with it. This will really put them in the killer catagory IMO. Seamless agumentation in the low end.
Dont be timid to try a good SET amp..Thats where the Druids shine. Having heard them with several SS and El-34 based amps were okay..but nothing compared to a true SET amp's sound. Its there youll find the sweetness of the Druids in the soundstage, depth and imagaing dept.
All this said..Let me congratulate you on your purchase and wish you many years of enjoyment with them.
I just found a nice pair of Quads to play with ( always wanted them!!)..Ill set them up for awhile, but I know Ill likely keep the Druids for what they are capable of, even if the Quads sound excellent, theres something very special about the Zu's in my room!
Ken, thanks so much. Perhaps they will open and surpass the Ushers in my set-up as well, but right now they don't in the areas mentioned. As you said, different equipment, room, etc.
What amazes me is that I don't consder them as good in all these areas, but still like them so much better. I realize this probably makes no sense what so ever, but it's just how it is. I obviously could never be a professional author or reviewer. :0)
I read much about these speakers before making the plunge and did set them using the CD case. I've got a thick carpet and pad and barely had enough threads on the spikes to get the separation I needed. I still need to experiment with this gap, but figured I'll give them the proper break-in first.
The tow-in you use sounds exactly how I chose to place mine as well. Zu's recommendation was to get them as far apart as possible and point them at the listening position.
I have mine spaced 10' apart, 2' from the rear wall to the back of the speakers (my living room is my listening room, can't move them out any further), and 14' to my listening position.
I have a large entertainment center between the speakers. This obviously will effect the depth, imaging, etc., but it will do so equally for both pairs of speakers.
Did you also use your tube equipment with the Usher's? If so, maybe they didn't take as well as my Odyssey. Who knows? Once again, it's the synergy. You described the Usher's sound as laid back, but this certainly is not the case with my rig. I was looking for ways calm them down a bit.
I'm curious to know how big your room is and how much power that SET amp puts out. I have another thread going in the amp forum as I have been considering a integrated amp with HT by-pass, tube amp, tube CDP, etc.
I would also like to try the Zu sub at some point, but I think I need to fill other priorites first (Zu center speaker for HT).
The important thing is that I have speakers I'm just thrilled about. Everything from here out is just icing on the cake.
Now I just need to get my Usher's up for sale so I can by some more toys. ;0)
If I were to compare them to my Ushers (CP-6381) and describe them in audiophile terms, they would not hold up.
They don't have the bass extension or detail, they don't image as well, don't have the soundfield width or depth, don't have the separation or air around the instruments, the highs are not as extended and are some what reticent
Jack_dotson (Threads | Answers)
Interesting, because when I re-read my comments above on the speaker measurements your description matches entirely what would be expected. Perhaps measurements are worth something...not much but they do offer some guidance.
Bottom line, IMO; if your a music lover you will like these speakers. If your an audio system lover you might not.
This is something the measurements are unable to quantify. Perhaps the most important aspect of any speaker for many music lovers and shows why this is such a successful speaker.
Enjoy and Congratulations! Thx for the forthright review.
Ah...so you dont have the Druids placed on something hard like a slab or granite base? This is important to do, since it will focus and tune the down firing slot loaded area under them. Carpet will only diffuse and make the bass weak, wooly and soft. Take a look at my system pic and see what I mean. The base's make a dramatic difference.
Its a shame you cant get them out further than 2 feet..but we have to work around what we have.
My room is 19x22x8 and opens into a hallway/ dining area. The 845 amp puts out 18W and is more than enough for my set up. I didnt use this amp with the Ushers, but used several such as Manley Stingray, a modded Jolida 502A, McIntosh 6100 integrated and a Plinius SA 250 on the 81's at one point (first amp used on the 81's when they were new) All with good results. But, as mentioned previously. If you can run a SET amp at some point..by all means do it!
Jack, thanks for the review. Two weeks ago I wrote almost the exact same words in a review I sent to Sean!
Like you, it took me a while to "get them". My first response was very critical, and in direct A-B comparison after listening to my PMC, the Druids sounded dull and flat.
Then I switched back to the "technically accurate audiophile speakers" and... they were now spiky, hyped, annoying.
Back to the Druids, and ahhh. They had me.
Realistic, musical, captivating, and fun. I am a musician and recording studio owner, and these Druids are just eerie in their ability to reproduce the sensation of a live performance.
Wonderful speakers. I sold my PMCs immediately.
I also have mine on hard surfaces, spaced 10 mm with the rounded tip supports. The short spikes, if that is what you got with yours, are not nearly long enough to reach through most carpets and pads. Zu will send you a set of longer spikes if you ask, if you want to use that method.
After listening without a sub, I fired up my pair of Hsu to fill up that supposedly "missing" lower octave. Yuck.
Subs had always worked great with all other speakers I've had in here over the years. But not now, they were detracting from the clear tonality of the Zu bass.
I took the subwoofers completely out of the room.
Mine are not far out from the walls, and are not spaced in an ideal alignment. Doesn't matter... they sound spectacular anyway.
I've used the Druids with several amps -- Carver M-1.5t, Denon solid state, McIntosh MC225 tube, and Bel Canto eVo. The Bel Canto demolished the others, for musical integrity, frequency response, and resonance.
Have fun with them. I've already ordered a second pair :)
I wouldn't use the carpet spikes. Follow Kehut's advice and create a "false floor". Spike a hard tile through the carpet and use that for the speaker base. The tuning will never be optimized on carpet.
I see you are using Gede interconnects and Libtec speaker cables. Have you also tried the Varial and the IBIS and you prefered these cables?
For finding the right gap, do you use the hight of one CD case or two? Do you think it is also makes sense to try a hard base under the Druids if I have no carpet under them but a hard compound surface (I don't know its name, usually used in banks or offices with heavy traffic)?
I have not tried the Zu IBIS or Varial..I bought the Libtecs from a memeber who upgraded to the IBIS cable and in our chat, he mentioned (quite profoundly) that the Libtecs were so very close to the IBIS in his system, that it was not a very big step sonically...just cost$$$ wise for him. He also said the same for the Gede's vs. the Varial. Now, Im not saying "I" would not hear any difference in my system or that the IBIS is not worth the price..dont get me wrong, just that I am extremely happy with the current cabeling used. I also tend to think of my system as one which is more modest and less all out..thus, I dont think I should put Zu's absolute best with my gear. Kind of keeping a price/performance ratio so to speak. But, I certainly wouldn't mind trying them if the opportunity came along.
As for the Druid set up. I used the thickness of one cd jewel case for the gap under the Druids.That worked out the best for my set up sonically.
I would think any rather hard surface under the Druids will work well, and surely better than soft carpet. I have seen several guys use anything from wood boards, or the Druids placed on hardwood flooring..to more expensive marble or granite slabs such as I use.. (mine are 18x18x 3/4" marble slabs) Your set up sounds good with the flooring you described.Should work fine.
I am a musician and recording studio owner, and these Druids are just eerie in their ability to reproduce the sensation of a live performance.
Squeegybug,
Any chance of some pics of your setup? I assume you used the spiked, hypy and annoying PMC's in your studio (they seem to be popular in some pro circles, although I have rarely heard them described quite the way you put it).
You have another pair of Zu Druids on order, are you planning to build a surround system based on Zu Druids? Not needing a sub (as you describe) might make this a system of exceptional quality and yet exceptional value too (good subs are far from cheap).
Please provide some pics and welcome to the forums - your first post, I believe?
The mini method sub is one of the fastest in the west, and is of course made by zu to match the speed and powerful raw tone of the druids. It is a little pricey, I believe retail is 1500.00, but if you need the extra power down low its not that hard to get it as long as you stick with Zu's designs along with your druids.
I tried my Zu's with 18" tiles and moved them out into the room and did not achieve better results. I didn't have the Tiles on spikes, just setting on top of the carpet using the weight of the speaker to push them down.
In my room the bass extension/output suffered. I installed the short rounded type spikes and tried different heights. Nothing worked well.
I now have them positioned 10' apart (inside to inside), 2' from the rear wall to the back of the speaker (closest point/inside of speaker) and the gap between the top of the carpet (long spikes installed) and the bottom of the speaker base set @ only 1/8".
I've also noticed that small changes to the tow-in makes huge differences. I have them positioned where they point almost directly at my ears. Towed out too much and they become very distant and hollow sounding.
I also changed the amp I'm using from my Odyssey Stratos Extreme (one of my favorite amps) to a Acurus A200 X 3 that I was using for center and surround duties.
I gave up some resolution and detail for sure, but the mid bass is much fuller and bass extension is better as well. Funny thing is this amp sounded very hard with my Ushers, but is pretty good with the Zu's. Not the final stop here, but better.
I am very happy and excited that with the right equipment things will only get better.
We're going to take vacation in about a week, but when we return I'll be putting my Usher-6381's, Usher X-616 center and Odyssey up for sale.
I plan to purchase the Zu center, a new tube based CDP (maybe the Raysonic 128 or something similar), and a new amp or integrated amp if needed. Will have to see how the CDP works out first.
The Zu's are worth building around and that's for sure. I just hope my wife's heart can take it. ;0)
Hey, thanks for the welcome. It was my first post here, I've mostly hung out on recording forums. But I have been checking Agon for a while since getting interested in the Zu products, I appreciate everyone's good information about these speakers.
Sorry I haven't figured out the forum options to reply/quote to you directly (if there are any?). So, I'll just write...
I can't get photos of the living room setup right now, since the Druids have been moved to the recording studio for some more evaluation as mixing/mastering monitors.
So that is the reason for the additional pair, not for surround. Although I bet 4 Druids would be a great setup for surround. I'll try to get some pics for you when I get the new ones installed.
I came on a little strong with the "hyped" comments. I wouldn't want to imply that PMC monitors are anything less than excellent in their overall performance. They are remarkable speakers in every way, especially when compared to their studio monitor competitors, and I was thrilled to find and use them for quite a while.
It's just that they present more of the strong, detailed sound typical of high quality reference speakers, and that general sound is such a dramatic contrast to the beautiful, effortless tone of the Zu Druids. A direct comparison is the really the only way to highlight that difference.
No guarantees yet that the Druids will hold up against the PMC in the studio. So far, I have had to make a lot of adjustments in my listening approach, since the reproduction is so different. And as always, placement in the mixing room is critical, so I have been doing quite a bit of experimenting there.
I can say that the midrange and bass are incredibly organic and refreshing on the Druids, after so many years of working with "ultra clear" monitors. I can now easily hear and *feel* changes such as equalizer adjustments of 1/3 dB, compression attack/release, reverb/delay settings, etc. All are much more obvious. The difference in treble response is requiring some unlearning, but I'm liking what I am discovering.
I have found that some tracks previously rejected when listening on the PMC now sound great on the Druids. I will know more after I finish a variety of sample mixes.
I even played some plugged-in acoustic guitar and electric bass directly through the mixer into the Druids, and they are outstanding for that. I'm almost thinking of taking them to a live gig this weekend to use for PA mains.... but realistically they are not really suited for road use with their exposed components. I could see making some cabinets for them if it works out, though.
I've been living with my Druids for the past couple of months now so I thought I would give a quick update.
Forget everything I said about the soundstage, details, etc. Everyone said these speakers take some time to really open up and they do.
I just can't believe how good these speakers are. It took me awhile to get them set-up properly and to find the right amp, but it's certainly paid off.
With the 60 day in home trial I say run, don't walk. Awesome! Just awesome!
I also added the Zu center which is an almost perfect match from my Druids.
"Welcome to the real world" (Morphius) You have been awakened from the audio matrix :-) Now I see why you were selling the odyssey, definitely not the amp in the end for those speakers.. Good luck
Undertow is right about the Odyssey not being a good match. I talked to the folks at Zu about this amp and they think it has to do with too much damping. Normally a good thing, but not so with the Zu's aparently.
Armstrod, I'm using an Acurus A200 for the mains and a Acurus 200X3 for center and rears. I can't imagine a much better match for these speakers as far as solid state amps go. Maybe an Aragon??
I would still like to experiement a bit with different cables and IC's. I'm quite happy with what I have, but you just never know.
It seems practically everyone that owns the Zu's are using tube based equipment. I too would like to try some tube equipment some day.
I will certainly agree that these Druids are the finest sounding speakers we've ever heard. Just amazing emotional presentation, at any volume level.
I'm running Bel Canto eVo 200.2 amps with each of my two pairs of Druids. Could not be happier with this combination.
Libtec cables on one pair and Wax on the other. By all means try the Zu cables, they are outstanding. My old favorite Kubala-Sosna went away quick after trying the Zu.
Both sets are on carpet. I had machined some 1" aluminum plates for bases, but found no extreme difference in my rooms from just spiking to the floor, so that is where they live now.
I did finally put a Hsu subwoofer back into each system, may upgrade those to Mini Method one day. But they are not doing much, just a touch of gain at 40 Hz and below.
I think I mentioned that after trying the Druids for movies, I ended up just removing my center and surround speakers from the (formerly 5.1) HT room, am only using the single pair of Druids and the sub. Much better sound for all movies, TV, and music, for my tastes.
Shadhorne, I was reminded that you asked for pictures, I had forgotten this thread. Here is the HT room:
Along with the sheer joy of listening to the Druids for pleasure, there is *no* doubt, these are the best mixing/mastering monitors I've ever used. Better than my PMC, SLS, Tannoy, Dynaudio, B&W, Celestion, whatever. So easy to hear the qualities of the sound. And never any listening fatigue.
Thanks for lending so much credibility, Steve. I've been flailing away in the wilderness fighting editorial suppression and uninformed naysayers for well over a year on the topic of Zu Druids. These speakers are so much bigger in performance than anyone would guess from looking at them. I moved up to the Definitions about a year ago but I still consider retreating to the Druid because they offer more bang for the buck than any other speaker I have noticed including my Defs.
It's really cool seeing the Druids standing over that sophisticated recording console. Quite a testimonial.
You are welcome Macrojack, and my thanks to you as well for all your reviews and discussions of the Zu speakers. I might not have been as willing to consider them without pioneers like you doing the trailblazing, I hope you keep it up. But I'm from the Show-Me state, and had to experience it myself to really know how they would suit my needs. As I do every piece of audio equipment I ever comment on. Wish more folks would just do that simple thing, and not have to argue about why they cannot work. Their loss.
I can honestly say that in the short time I have had the Druids, they have helped me get mastering contracts that I otherwise would not have. The ability to hear and adjust the midrange is just about the most important factor for creating the tone of the final CDs, and the Druids are the best at this I've ever found. No hyped treble that might leave me guessing at the top end. And the clean, fast bass response is the finishing touch, offers such a realistic presentation that allows me to shape sounds that will translate well on a wide range of playback systems.
I've heard what the competition on my latest project were producing from their 'multi-crossover self-powered super detailed reference monitors', usually with a !hole! where a midrange driver should be. Some of those samples were pretty painful to my ears. And I am also guilty of doing similar things in the past.
I am so done with that type of audio reproduction. The Zu's just present the honest emotion and allow me to keep that feeling plus the real dynamics of the music. Whether just listening or while polishing the mixes to a smooth, vintage, analog sound. I should probably shut up about that, will lose my advantage if the other guys catch on. ;)
Jack, the short version is: We preferred the Libtec.
Of course, it will depend on the type of sound the listener wants. For us, we compared them directly and pretty easily picked our favorite. That was using the Druid Mk4's and Bel Canto only, in our rooms. Obviously if using different equipment and rooms and ears, other cables might work differently. Or not.
I had the Libtec first, used for a while in the HT then moved them to the studio. I then bought Wax and put in the HT room. We could immediately tell the difference, but wanted to get some run in time and make sure before final decisions.
After several weeks of using both, I ran a single cable of each type to two Druids set side by side in the recording studio. This was mono only, which I have found usually helps focus on the tonal differences in equalizers, which is what cables really are anyway. Results might vary a bit in overall stereo image, etc. with a pair of speakers, but I think not enough to outweigh the frequency response of the singles in my experience.
Now both cables are fairly long -- Libtec is 12 ft, Wax is 15 ft. This might affect the responses, but actually should provide even more sensitivity to variations. Playback was an ordinary HHB studio CD player/recorder going through Lavry Blue for DA then to Presonus Central Station passive switcher/attenuator. Interconnects are decent grade Straightwire 75 ohm S/PDIF coax and superb Belden 89207 Teflon plenum balanced cable that I made myself. I've used that chain plenty, it is reliable and has transparent sound quality.
So, they are both nice speaker wires. My wife/studio partner/singing partner and I took turns switching and listening blind to each, up close and from various distances. Turns out that listening blind didn't last for long, the differences were obvious.
We played a variety of excellent productions that I almost always use for comparisons -- The great Bob Ludwig's *master*piece of Dire Strait's 'On Every Street'; Emmylou & Lanois' collaboration on 'Stumble Into Grace'; Van Morrison's 'Back on Top'; and The Wailin' Jennys first album '40 Days'. Plus some material that I've recorded and a current mastering project for someone else.
Lynnie and I occasionally have some contradictory opinions on audio choices, sometimes completely 180 degrees. Some of it is gender related, there is no question that females hear differently than males. And I take advantage of her musical training and excellent hearing to balance my own opinions.
Well, this shootout was unanimous. It was immediately obvious when switching that the Libtec just presents more emotion. And that is the bottom line for us.
Wax is a great cable, beating out the other options I still have left around here (Kubala-Sosna and Tara Prism). It is a 'dry' sound compared to the Libtec and those others. Wax also reveals the most powerful dynamics I've ever heard, the drum hits on those reference recordings were really special. I think the overall tone is a bit forward, seems to have almost a reverse smiley curve around 1 kHz. This can really punch those drums to the front.
So the sound of Wax with the Druids is very detailed in the midrange, can get almost a bit 'honky' if the recording has some of that already. But not in a bad way. It's a pretty unique sounding cable in my experience, and I liked much of its character, particularly with vocals. You know how it is trying to describe sound, especially cable effects. I'll just say it was a strong, open, dry sound, with no hyped bass or treble and a slightly forward midrange. Can make vocals and drums sound larger than life, brings out the wood in acoustic instruments. I did not think it was a completely accurate presentation of the raw recordings I have done of us singing and playing, but it was a fun variation.
Libtec is pretty much the opposite. A bit lush, but not overdone. Definitely not hyped. Clear and beautiful, with the most remarkable intensity in the midrange. This cable brings out texture and resonance and harmonics, feels like I am hearing the live sources. It was hard to do A-B comparisons with the Libtec -- when switching to it, we didn't want to switch back. We just got captured by the emotional energy in the music and wanted to keep listening. I wish Zu could bundle these with every Druid sold, they are that wonderful in bringing out the full response of the already outstanding Druid speaker.
Hope that helps. Just our opinions of course, but that is all we have to work with every day. And remember, we are unique, just like everyone else :)
I had all zu cables at this point, on the definition the Libtec was the most rounded and smooth sounding.. The wax was nothing too special honestly.. The Ibis for much more money can be a bit sharper, but over time they might be the best, but again at way more money.
Thanks so much for your cable opinions. They are very helpful. BTW, I just picked up a pair of Cornwall II's. Haven't heard them in years, but they are of my all time favorites. I can't wait to see how they match up with the Zu's.
Jack, I can hardly imagine two more opposite sounding speakers than Druids and heritage Klipsch. I've used/owned La Scala, Heresy, and KHorns, and those compression squawkers and squreamers always gave me a case of 'icepicks in the ears' with most modern recordings, especially since the bass is so subdued/out-of-proportion at normal listening levels. I always ended up wiring up my own crossovers and bi/tri-amping to try to get some bass into them without having to run at 100 dB.
Maybe the Cornwall is different. Just curious why/how you are trying to mate them with Druids? But I know about dragging up old favorites from years gone by. I have tried a few times to resurrect my old Celestion Dittons and get them to fit into current systems -- with no luck.
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