Thanks to everyone for the responses. Once I get my 2.3i's sold and get back from vacation I'm going to order a pair.
Of course I'll post a follow-up when appropriate.
Again; many thanks. |
OK Guys, I already took the plunge. I was looking at speakers on ebay and found that Zu had a limited number of the Druids on sale for just two grand so I jumped on it.
I tried to call them to verify that these were in fact their latest model, etc., but it was too late so I just went for it.
I also still want to find out if they will be broken in before shipping.
Anyhow, I'll let you guys know how things turn out.
Sure hope someone buys my Veritas' soon before my wife kills me. Ushers, Veritas and Druids for one room. ;0) |
Hello everyone; I'm still here, but have just been reading a learning.
I appreciate the debate about this speaker and have not taken offense to anyone's post and hope no one else has either. Good spirited debates like this can be very helpful IMO. I'm learing much from both camps.
I know of no other speaker that could generate this many comments. I also know of no other speaker that seems to be at both extremes in people's opinions. I'm intrigued to say the least.
After vacation I may order a pair just to see. I don't mind paying the shipping, but my only concern is that I might not have enough time to get these broken in properly. One thing everyone seems to agree on is the long break-in period.
Please don't stop. It seems that I'm not the only one that's interested and this has turned into a very nice thread IMO.
I would be interested to hear what type of music you guys listen to. Perhaps this might tell something about this speaker as well, i.e. rock guys like them; classical guys don't.
Just wish there was an easier way to audition.
Once again, thanks so much for your time and responses. They are most appreciated. |
I read elsewhere they only did this with their top of the line model. If I decide to order I'll find out for sure.
I love the sound of my Ushers, but because of my living room and the big entertainment center, they're a beach to place. The slant and size make it difficult for me to get them out into the room where they can breath without the wife throwing a fit.
I was thinking the depth of the Druids might actually work to my advantage. I'm also seriously kicking around the idea of just turning this system into a HT and using a spare bedroom to set up a two channel rig.
Problem is this room is only 13'6" X 12'6" so the 6381's are a bit big, but the the Druids would probably fit in either situation. This would mean some major moves.
Oh no, am I looking for an excuse to upgrade yet again? :-) |
Kehut, I don't think I got my point across correctly in my previous post. I don't have the Ushers set up in the small room, they are set up in my living room which is much larger ~ 18' X 22' with 14' ceiling and an open floor plan.
I'm considering using the the small room for a dedicated two channel rig and using my living room for HT only.
BTW, I'm one who really doesn't care much about specs. I've seen too many products that spec well, but sound like crap and vice versa. |
Casouza, thanks so much for this informative post. I could care less about measurments, only the sound.
I'm not sure I know what you mean when referrng to the tone. I like the sound of the real thing for sure, but I also like hearing the details. After all, Bose claims to reproduce the "live" sound. I'll leave it at that. :-)
I'm still curious to know if this speaker favors a specific type of music. Do those who like them prefer rock or classical? And how about those who who dislike them? What kind of music do they prefer and what don't they like (measurments aside)?
My old Klipsch LaScalla's measured poorly at both ends of the frequency spectrum and I loved their sound.
BTW, I'll be traveling on vacation next month from Texas to Vegas to San Diego and back (driving). Anyone know of a store along this route where I might be able to audition the Zu's? I realize there are very few dealers, but thought I would ask. |
Thanks Ken. And yes, they do have the 60 day trial period listed as well. After reading the add again, I do see that they are the version IV's too.
Looks to be a really good deal. We'll have to see how they stand up against my 6381's.
If there as good as I think, I might just end up keeping both and starting a second system for two channel only. |
Shandorne, thanks, but it's not really that big of a risk. They have a 60 day in home trial and if I don't like them all I lose is shipping cost.
I will indeed be sorry to see the 2.3i's gone. They're a very special speaker for sure and one of my all time favorites. But, they were detrowned by my 6381's and as I said, we'll see how the Druids match up.
I wish I had the money to try everything and keep most.
You know how it goes. Always looking/listening. One day I will find the holy grail.
Also still looking for the "right" CDP, pre-amp, etc. but, that's another story. :0)
Can't wait to hit the lotto!! |
I've had the Druids in my system for three days now. They are different from any other speaker I've heard. When hearing them for the first time I was not impressed. It sounded like they were distant, no bass (didn't have the spikes installed), and just bland.
My initial reaction was that I couldn't see how anyone could like these speakers. But, then things started to change. I don't know why and have no idea how to explain it.
I played them very loud for a good period of time and they seemed to just open up. I started to hear the magic others have raved about. Voices and instruments have a realness that I've not experienced before.
As expected, the bass is not extended and it's obvious the bottom octave is missing. Wierd thing is I could care less. The bass is there and sufficient for most music. As a matter of fact, it's much better than I expected. I used my SVS sub (not a good sub for music) cut @ 40Hz, but found I prefered not to use it.
If I were to compare them to my Ushers (CP-6381) and describe them in audiophile terms, they would not hold up.
They don't have the bass extension or detail, they don't image as well, don't have the soundfield width or depth, don't have the separation or air around the instruments, the highs are not as extended and are some what reticent, they look cheap in comparison, etc. etc. And, for these reasons I fully understand why many do not find what they're searching for.
However, what they are is dynamic, musical, and real. They make music fun again! It sounds like your listening to the real thing and not a stereo system. Just incredible! Once I start listening I don't want to stop.
I like them very much right now and if they're going to improve as they break in, then all the better. I've tried them with every type of music and liked it all. Bad recordings still sound like bad recordings, but maintain the realness. I think this is what others have described as accurate tone. Not sure what the correct term is, but I like what I hear.
I think their stated efficiency is a bit exagerated. They are rated ~ 13 dB higher in efficiency then my Ushers, but in reality they play only slightly louder with the volume at the same level. Perhaps this is because of the much higher impedance. I don't know, but I really really don't think I could use a low powered tube amp in my room.
I'll do an in-depth review and post in the review section when they're fully broken in. I just wanted to follow up with my initial observations.
Bottom line, IMO; if your a music lover you will like these speakers. If your an audio system lover you might not.
Mine will not be going back and the Ushers will be up for sale. And I really like the Ushers.
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Ken, thanks so much. Perhaps they will open and surpass the Ushers in my set-up as well, but right now they don't in the areas mentioned. As you said, different equipment, room, etc.
What amazes me is that I don't consder them as good in all these areas, but still like them so much better. I realize this probably makes no sense what so ever, but it's just how it is. I obviously could never be a professional author or reviewer. :0)
I read much about these speakers before making the plunge and did set them using the CD case. I've got a thick carpet and pad and barely had enough threads on the spikes to get the separation I needed. I still need to experiment with this gap, but figured I'll give them the proper break-in first.
The tow-in you use sounds exactly how I chose to place mine as well. Zu's recommendation was to get them as far apart as possible and point them at the listening position.
I have mine spaced 10' apart, 2' from the rear wall to the back of the speakers (my living room is my listening room, can't move them out any further), and 14' to my listening position.
I have a large entertainment center between the speakers. This obviously will effect the depth, imaging, etc., but it will do so equally for both pairs of speakers.
Did you also use your tube equipment with the Usher's? If so, maybe they didn't take as well as my Odyssey. Who knows? Once again, it's the synergy. You described the Usher's sound as laid back, but this certainly is not the case with my rig. I was looking for ways calm them down a bit.
I'm curious to know how big your room is and how much power that SET amp puts out. I have another thread going in the amp forum as I have been considering a integrated amp with HT by-pass, tube amp, tube CDP, etc.
I would also like to try the Zu sub at some point, but I think I need to fill other priorites first (Zu center speaker for HT).
The important thing is that I have speakers I'm just thrilled about. Everything from here out is just icing on the cake.
Now I just need to get my Usher's up for sale so I can by some more toys. ;0)
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I tried my Zu's with 18" tiles and moved them out into the room and did not achieve better results. I didn't have the Tiles on spikes, just setting on top of the carpet using the weight of the speaker to push them down.
In my room the bass extension/output suffered. I installed the short rounded type spikes and tried different heights. Nothing worked well.
I now have them positioned 10' apart (inside to inside), 2' from the rear wall to the back of the speaker (closest point/inside of speaker) and the gap between the top of the carpet (long spikes installed) and the bottom of the speaker base set @ only 1/8".
I've also noticed that small changes to the tow-in makes huge differences. I have them positioned where they point almost directly at my ears. Towed out too much and they become very distant and hollow sounding.
I also changed the amp I'm using from my Odyssey Stratos Extreme (one of my favorite amps) to a Acurus A200 X 3 that I was using for center and surround duties.
I gave up some resolution and detail for sure, but the mid bass is much fuller and bass extension is better as well. Funny thing is this amp sounded very hard with my Ushers, but is pretty good with the Zu's. Not the final stop here, but better.
I am very happy and excited that with the right equipment things will only get better.
We're going to take vacation in about a week, but when we return I'll be putting my Usher-6381's, Usher X-616 center and Odyssey up for sale.
I plan to purchase the Zu center, a new tube based CDP (maybe the Raysonic 128 or something similar), and a new amp or integrated amp if needed. Will have to see how the CDP works out first.
The Zu's are worth building around and that's for sure. I just hope my wife's heart can take it. ;0) |
I've been living with my Druids for the past couple of months now so I thought I would give a quick update.
Forget everything I said about the soundstage, details, etc. Everyone said these speakers take some time to really open up and they do.
I just can't believe how good these speakers are. It took me awhile to get them set-up properly and to find the right amp, but it's certainly paid off.
With the 60 day in home trial I say run, don't walk. Awesome! Just awesome!
I also added the Zu center which is an almost perfect match from my Druids. |
Morphius lives!!!! :0)
Undertow is right about the Odyssey not being a good match. I talked to the folks at Zu about this amp and they think it has to do with too much damping. Normally a good thing, but not so with the Zu's aparently.
Armstrod, I'm using an Acurus A200 for the mains and a Acurus 200X3 for center and rears. I can't imagine a much better match for these speakers as far as solid state amps go. Maybe an Aragon??
I would still like to experiement a bit with different cables and IC's. I'm quite happy with what I have, but you just never know.
It seems practically everyone that owns the Zu's are using tube based equipment. I too would like to try some tube equipment some day. |
Squeegybug, what differences did you hear between your two Zu speaker cables? I'm considering both. |
Thanks so much for your cable opinions. They are very helpful. BTW, I just picked up a pair of Cornwall II's. Haven't heard them in years, but they are of my all time favorites. I can't wait to see how they match up with the Zu's. |
Squeegybug, the CW's are indeed very different. I've also owned the LaScalla's and they're exactly as you described. Everyone I know replaced the stock crossover's to tame these and they had very little bass, if any, below ~ 50Hz or so. I consider a sub essential with these speakers, but not so for my Zu's. I did like my LaScalla's very much though when played loud.
The K-Horns to me sounded just like the LaScalla's with better bass when positioned properly in a corner, but I never owned these.
The Corwall's on the other hand have a much more subdued mid-range and bass is one of their strengths. They don't have great bass extension, but it's much better than the LaScalla's and is very strong to at least what the Zu's are capable of. Just a much more balanced sound (compared to the LS that is, not the Zu's).
I have a large room with open floor plan and vaulted ceilings. This space just gobbles up everything my SVS 20-39 sub can throw out. Even with the sub I have a suck out at ~ 90-120Hz range. The CW's filled the room with all the bass one could ask for and put my sub to shame down to ~ 40Hz. Kick drums and the like are handled with total authority and sound as lifelike as I've heard from any speaker. If ever there was a rock speaker, these are it.
The CW's are also very efficient and for this reason many use small tube amps with very little power to drive them, which I think is a big mistake. It take's some good power to get those 15's pounding like they should and in my experience the more power you feed them, the better.
BTW, the Zu's and CW's have identical efficiency ratings, yet when I measured them it wasn't even close. I had the output level of my processor set to +1 to acheive 75dB at my listening positon with my Zu's, but for Klipsch it was set a -6 to achieve the same level.
I said from the begining that Zu's efficieny ratings are hyped and I stand by this statement. The output levels were set just 1 click less to obtain the same output as my old Usher's which were rated 87dB @ 1W.
Don't get me wrong, the CW's will not be replacing my Zu's and are not gonig to be used with them. My Zu's are used in my main system which I use for HT as well as two channel audio. I also bought the Zu center.
They're going to be used in a 2nd two channel system I'm putting together in another room. I always considered the Klipsch to be one of the most revealing speakers I've heard, but they just don't match the Zu's. The Zu's are just in another league when it comes to tonal accuracy. As discussed, they just sound right and have a balance few speakers can match. My Zu's are here to stay. :0) I enjoy both, but in very different ways.
BTW, my wife loves the Klipsch. She rarely comments on my audio changes and generally could care less. However, when she came in from work and saw the CW's, she said "see, these sound the best." The only time she ever played my stereo was back when I had the CW's before. I would come home and she would have the stereo cranked while doing her house work. She never turned it on again after I sold the CW's, even to this day. However, when I asked if she wanted me to move these into the main room, she just smiled and said "I don't think so. Too big!".
Now I just have to figure out what gear works well with the big guys. I used Adcom before, but it wasn't really a great match, just available where I was stationed. |
Undertow, thanks for the explaination. I realize with most modern day amp's power increases as impedance drops, but I had/have no idea how they respond as the load increases. I've never seen this discussed, even with all the attention the Zu's are getting.
I would assume it's the opposite and maybe this is why the Odyssey performed so poorly with these speakers, but was very good with the Ushers. Also, the ability to drive low impedances is supposed to be one of the main advantages of newer amps. Maybe it's time to try a classic Marantz or the like?
I still don't understand how a tube amps differs in this regard. Most tube amps I've looked at have 4 or 8 Ohm taps, but I've not seen one for 12. Why/how do they differ from solid state?
This is the first 12 Ohm speaker I've owned so I'm in unchartered territory here.
Macrojack, thanks for the suggestion. I've been itching to try an integrated tube amp on the cheap. However, I want remote control, inputs for CD, Phono, DVDP and good power, but have been trying to stay under a grand. This is tough. Use of an outboard pre may be my only option, but if I do this I misght just as well go with separates. The pre will add exra cost not to mention I really want to keep this bedroom system as simple as possible.
I'm probably being unrealistic, but am still looking. Any other suggestions? |
