Zu Druid questions

Squeegybug, the CW's are indeed very different. I've also owned the LaScalla's and they're exactly as you described. Everyone I know replaced the stock crossover's to tame these and they had very little bass, if any, below ~ 50Hz or so. I consider a sub essential with these speakers, but not so for my Zu's. I did like my LaScalla's very much though when played loud.

The K-Horns to me sounded just like the LaScalla's with better bass when positioned properly in a corner, but I never owned these.

The Corwall's on the other hand have a much more subdued mid-range and bass is one of their strengths. They don't have great bass extension, but it's much better than the LaScalla's and is very strong to at least what the Zu's are capable of. Just a much more balanced sound (compared to the LS that is, not the Zu's).

I have a large room with open floor plan and vaulted ceilings. This space just gobbles up everything my SVS 20-39 sub can throw out. Even with the sub I have a suck out at ~ 90-120Hz range. The CW's filled the room with all the bass one could ask for and put my sub to shame down to ~ 40Hz. Kick drums and the like are handled with total authority and sound as lifelike as I've heard from any speaker. If ever there was a rock speaker, these are it.

The CW's are also very efficient and for this reason many use small tube amps with very little power to drive them, which I think is a big mistake. It take's some good power to get those 15's pounding like they should and in my experience the more power you feed them, the better.

BTW, the Zu's and CW's have identical efficiency ratings, yet when I measured them it wasn't even close. I had the output level of my processor set to +1 to acheive 75dB at my listening positon with my Zu's, but for Klipsch it was set a -6 to achieve the same level.

I said from the begining that Zu's efficieny ratings are hyped and I stand by this statement. The output levels were set just 1 click less to obtain the same output as my old Usher's which were rated 87dB @ 1W.

Don't get me wrong, the CW's will not be replacing my Zu's and are not gonig to be used with them. My Zu's are used in my main system which I use for HT as well as two channel audio. I also bought the Zu center.

They're going to be used in a 2nd two channel system I'm putting together in another room. I always considered the Klipsch to be one of the most revealing speakers I've heard, but they just don't match the Zu's. The Zu's are just in another league when it comes to tonal accuracy. As discussed, they just sound right and have a balance few speakers can match. My Zu's are here to stay. :0) I enjoy both, but in very different ways.

BTW, my wife loves the Klipsch. She rarely comments on my audio changes and generally could care less. However, when she came in from work and saw the CW's, she said "see, these sound the best." The only time she ever played my stereo was back when I had the CW's before. I would come home and she would have the stereo cranked while doing her house work. She never turned it on again after I sold the CW's, even to this day. However, when I asked if she wanted me to move these into the main room, she just smiled and said "I don't think so. Too big!".

Now I just have to figure out what gear works well with the big guys. I used Adcom before, but it wasn't really a great match, just available where I was stationed.

" I said from the begining that Zu's efficieny ratings are hyped and I stand by this statement. The output levels were set just 1 click less to obtain the same output as my old Usher's which were rated 87dB @ 1W. "

The Zu's are a 12 ohm load, ushers are probably 6 ohm even dipping down to 4 and below... With the mid line solid state amp you are using this makes sense with 1 click less.. The Zu's demand a well rounded tube or Hybrid amp to acheive the best effiency results I belive with your 12 ohm load. Also depending on the power amp the ushers probaly doubled the output power of the amps automatically, the Zu's will be only drawing probaly 1 watt to every 10 watts the ushers were, the amps just did not drive them louder because it had no reason too with such a light load..

So if you took a 1 watt tube amp and used it on the druid and the same 1 watt on the usher, you will than find out 1 click up would not do it to push the usher comparably. Problem is your solid state amp is automatically putting out more power to the input gain from your processor, you just dont know it... Push the usher for about 15 min at 100 DB and the amp would probably be nice and toasty doubling down power compared to the easy 12 ohm load of the Druid, which would keep it cold.. I know you had the odyssey, it would run warmer for sure with the usher vs. the druid...

So your comparison is flawed, also as for the cornwalls, the Horns are Simply Louder, this is because they Are amplified by the HORN in mids and Tweets.. That has nothing to do with the efficiency of the speaker, the Compression drivers are 98 or 99 db I believe in the cornwall, I use to own them, and then are Horn loaded which increases volume a lot compared to a 101 db straight paper driver.

Jack = Try an Onix SP-3 on your Cornwalls. You can find one for between $500 and $600 on Audiogon. It's an integrated amp with two inputs. If you need more than that, use an inexpensive passive preamp as a switchbox. You will be very impressed with the results this gives you. If you decide not to keep it for any reason, sell it for what you paid.

Undertow, thanks for the explaination. I realize with most modern day amp's power increases as impedance drops, but I had/have no idea how they respond as the load increases. I've never seen this discussed, even with all the attention the Zu's are getting.

I would assume it's the opposite and maybe this is why the Odyssey performed so poorly with these speakers, but was very good with the Ushers. Also, the ability to drive low impedances is supposed to be one of the main advantages of newer amps. Maybe it's time to try a classic Marantz or the like?

I still don't understand how a tube amps differs in this regard. Most tube amps I've looked at have 4 or 8 Ohm taps, but I've not seen one for 12. Why/how do they differ from solid state?

This is the first 12 Ohm speaker I've owned so I'm in unchartered territory here.

Macrojack, thanks for the suggestion. I've been itching to try an integrated tube amp on the cheap. However, I want remote control, inputs for CD, Phono, DVDP and good power, but have been trying to stay under a grand. This is tough. Use of an outboard pre may be my only option, but if I do this I misght just as well go with separates. The pre will add exra cost not to mention I really want to keep this bedroom system as simple as possible.

I'm probably being unrealistic, but am still looking. Any other suggestions?

Jack don't worry too much about the specifics, just know that a Zu speaker will never drop, and will stay a stable load, and as for 4 or 8 ohm taps thats fine with a 12 ohm speaker, via tubes it is different than solid state, the 8 ohm taps would most likely sound best and run just fine, also most tube amps don't change power output at all between the 4 and 8 ohm taps, if its a 40 tube its 40 at either tap, normally a solid state is 40 w at the 8 ohm for example and 80 w at the 4 ohm...

But even solid state amps like 12 ohm loads, but might not be optimal all the time I would assume cause your not getting the full juice out of it cause it never has a reason to break a sweat, but I don't know, some amps are just better being driven harder, Class A tube amps are full output all the time even not driving a music signal thats why they probably sound the best, but then again thats why they run hotter too.

Jack, thanks for your detailed answer about the Cornwalls. Those should be nice for you. Sounds like I should check that model sometime just for fun.

Steve

I've had the Druids for nearly 2 years and the importance of properly setting the base gap cannot be overemphasized. Right now I have the gap set at about 1/16th of an inch (using a stack of paper under each speaker). This is contrary to the owner's manual instructions, but I confirmed this setting with Sean at Zu. First, with a bottom port, if you have carpet you should put a piece of butcher block or acrylic under the speaker, to start with a precise flat surface. Setting the gap correctly will make the speakers sound totally different. The treble will sound like it extends beyond the walls, the transients will speed up like lightning and the resolution will increase dramatically. If the gap is not set right, the speakers will be quite unremarkable and you may have no idea what you are missing.