Zu Druid questions

The problem with the Soundstage measurements was that they hung the speakers in free-air, per standard protocol. They were informed of the speakers' need for floor loading but they were unwilling to break procedure to measure the speakers. The effect was akin to removing the port from another speaker and enlarging the hole

I looked at the soundstage measurements and they don't look at all surprising. Looks like the 10" cone is seriously breaking up above 2KHz (as one would expect); the whizzer ameliorates some of the on axis response in this range but not the off axis response.

The sharp drop in response at 150 Hz might be related to a cabinet waffle or box resonance (cancelling the speaker primary response). It is indeed possible that firmly placed on a solid floor (spikes through a carpet) that this resonance might be better damped (improvingthe bass).

Anechoic measurements are always performed in a way that minimizes effects from the room. It is the only way to make a standard measurement.

Placement/sweetspot of this kind of speaker may be absolutely critical. Just my two cents...based on the measurements (superficial comments and much speculation of course - so don't take this very seriously).

Shardone - Some of this or that might be related to rainbows and puppydogs. If the driver is breaking up anywhere in its band I can't hear it. You couldn't either.

When the frequency response becomes very spikey above a certain frequency cone break up is often the explanation. The fall off in off axis response is probably beaming. IMHO the "whizzer" cone is there for a reason.

As Duke points out...our hearing is remarkably well able to deal with notches in the frequency response (spikes are actually much more acceptable than sustained drops)

So the break up may not be audible.

The uneven power response: Although the "whizzer" fixes the on axis to a large extent....I expect that the roll off in off axis response above 2 Khz will be clearly audible. The speaker will probably sound different as you walk from directly in front to 45 degrees off axis - this is not a bad thing - just the way it will behave and will make speaker positioning/toe-in quite important - thats all.

Duke,

I agree with you. Underdamped/high Q design is a much better explanation for the severe notch at 150 HZ. The cone will respond to cabinet resonance.

Here is another example PMC GB1 of a speaker with a similar notch.

There is a superficial similarity in the tall narrow cabinet dimensions and overal response, however the GB1 is crossed over on the tweeter much lower and therefore has a more even off axis response at higher frequencies.
PMC = 6.1"W x 9.21D x 34.25" H
Zu Druid = 10 1/2"W x 6 3/8"D x 50"H

I agree that the notch at 150 Hz will likely be inaudible - many rooms may have sharp notches like this anyway from wall reflections/modes - so no big deal.

However an underdamped design will differ quite audibly from a critically damped design. As you suggest, longer oscillations in the low end may give more of a bass impression than the frequency plot alone may suggest.

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All goes to show that measurements are meaningful and do tell us something about the design and the performance.

Of course, I would NEVER recommend to select a speaker based on measurements alone. Nevertheless I would not recommend to stick ones head in the sand and totally ignore meaurements either.

Let me finish by saying Zu Druid's are undoubtedly good speakers. The high efficiency and dynamics from this design is likely to be extremely impressive even with very modest amplification power. My intent was never to bash these great speakers. Sorry if it sounded that way...but I was only trying to defend the value of measurements.

Sorry to those affronted by "grandstanding" with unecessary detailed discussion here on the Zu Druids. As several have pointed out and continue to reiterate "measurements have no meaning", as the Zu Druids are a fantastic speaker irregardless of what a lab measurement would indicate (better than all other high end speakers according to F1Audio) and Sean is a great guy. I don't dispute any of this. For the record, I already stated " Zu Druid's are undoubtedly good speakers."

I understand the need for subjectivists to jump in and aggressively defend preferences given that they select audio equipment without heed to measurements. On the flip side, please understand that objectivists enjoy and learn a lot through technical discussions with people such as Duke.

If you like the speaker or vegetable or movie, it doesn't really matter what the gauges, meters, formulae or critics say.

I understand this subjective view. However, whether you like broccoli more than potatoes is hardly useful to another in helping understand how either will taste. I believe there is a place for trying to objectively measure and describe performance just as their is a place for subjective hyperbole. While neither viewpoint tells the whole story (and how one may personally react to Zu Druid's sound), IMHO there is space and value for both views on these forums, rather than dismissing all measurements as..."it doesn't really matter".

Once again, let me reiterate how great Zu Druid speakers are. This is not an attack on Zu Druid's fine speakers. I am defending measurements which seem to be so easily dismissed as useless on not just this thread but many threads on these forums.

Casouza, thanks so much for this informative post. I could care less about measurments, only the sound.

Jack,

Exceptional speakers do not need to be reasonably flat with wide dispersion to sound good. You are right to care only about the sound. Let us know how the Zu's sound if you get to audition them. I enjoyed your review of Energy Veritas a while ago. Good luck and enjoy your vacation! (BTW: Las Vegas Pro Audio is on your route - might be worth your time as the live, dynamic or impulse response that Casouza describes as a feature of the Zu's is also a trait you can often find in pro audio gear)

Congratulations. I look forward to reading your review of the Zu's (please?). I certainly enjoyed the review you did of the Veritas 2.3i - judging from that review I expect you will be rather sorry to see them go.

Great to see that you have such confidence in the comments here. I have only once ordered a speaker without an audition of the specific model and I based my decision on the speaker user list (well known musicians) and knowledge of the manufacturers other designs rather than a forum thread. Kudos to you, as they say "Nothing ventured nothing gained!"

If I were to compare them to my Ushers (CP-6381) and describe them in audiophile terms, they would not hold up.

They don't have the bass extension or detail, they don't image as well, don't have the soundfield width or depth, don't have the separation or air around the instruments, the highs are not as extended and are some what reticent

Jack_dotson (Threads | Answers)

Interesting, because when I re-read my comments above on the speaker measurements your description matches entirely what would be expected. Perhaps measurements are worth something...not much but they do offer some guidance.

Bottom line, IMO; if your a music lover you will like these speakers. If your an audio system lover you might not.

This is something the measurements are unable to quantify. Perhaps the most important aspect of any speaker for many music lovers and shows why this is such a successful speaker.

Enjoy and Congratulations! Thx for the forthright review.

I am a musician and recording studio owner, and these Druids are just eerie in their ability to reproduce the sensation of a live performance.

Squeegybug,

Any chance of some pics of your setup? I assume you used the spiked, hypy and annoying PMC's in your studio (they seem to be popular in some pro circles, although I have rarely heard them described quite the way you put it).

You have another pair of Zu Druids on order, are you planning to build a surround system based on Zu Druids? Not needing a sub (as you describe) might make this a system of exceptional quality and yet exceptional value too (good subs are far from cheap).

Please provide some pics and welcome to the forums - your first post, I believe?