Jack, thanks for your detailed answer about the Cornwalls. Those should be nice for you. Sounds like I should check that model sometime just for fun.
Steve |
Jack, thanks for the review. Two weeks ago I wrote almost the exact same words in a review I sent to Sean!
Like you, it took me a while to "get them". My first response was very critical, and in direct A-B comparison after listening to my PMC, the Druids sounded dull and flat.
Then I switched back to the "technically accurate audiophile speakers" and... they were now spiky, hyped, annoying.
Back to the Druids, and ahhh. They had me.
Realistic, musical, captivating, and fun. I am a musician and recording studio owner, and these Druids are just eerie in their ability to reproduce the sensation of a live performance.
Wonderful speakers. I sold my PMCs immediately.
I also have mine on hard surfaces, spaced 10 mm with the rounded tip supports. The short spikes, if that is what you got with yours, are not nearly long enough to reach through most carpets and pads. Zu will send you a set of longer spikes if you ask, if you want to use that method.
After listening without a sub, I fired up my pair of Hsu to fill up that supposedly "missing" lower octave. Yuck.
Subs had always worked great with all other speakers I've had in here over the years. But not now, they were detracting from the clear tonality of the Zu bass.
I took the subwoofers completely out of the room.
Mine are not far out from the walls, and are not spaced in an ideal alignment. Doesn't matter... they sound spectacular anyway.
I've used the Druids with several amps -- Carver M-1.5t, Denon solid state, McIntosh MC225 tube, and Bel Canto eVo. The Bel Canto demolished the others, for musical integrity, frequency response, and resonance.
Have fun with them. I've already ordered a second pair :)
Steve |
To Shadorne -
Hey, thanks for the welcome. It was my first post here, I've mostly hung out on recording forums. But I have been checking Agon for a while since getting interested in the Zu products, I appreciate everyone's good information about these speakers.
Sorry I haven't figured out the forum options to reply/quote to you directly (if there are any?). So, I'll just write...
I can't get photos of the living room setup right now, since the Druids have been moved to the recording studio for some more evaluation as mixing/mastering monitors.
So that is the reason for the additional pair, not for surround. Although I bet 4 Druids would be a great setup for surround. I'll try to get some pics for you when I get the new ones installed.
I came on a little strong with the "hyped" comments. I wouldn't want to imply that PMC monitors are anything less than excellent in their overall performance. They are remarkable speakers in every way, especially when compared to their studio monitor competitors, and I was thrilled to find and use them for quite a while.
It's just that they present more of the strong, detailed sound typical of high quality reference speakers, and that general sound is such a dramatic contrast to the beautiful, effortless tone of the Zu Druids. A direct comparison is the really the only way to highlight that difference.
No guarantees yet that the Druids will hold up against the PMC in the studio. So far, I have had to make a lot of adjustments in my listening approach, since the reproduction is so different. And as always, placement in the mixing room is critical, so I have been doing quite a bit of experimenting there.
I can say that the midrange and bass are incredibly organic and refreshing on the Druids, after so many years of working with "ultra clear" monitors. I can now easily hear and *feel* changes such as equalizer adjustments of 1/3 dB, compression attack/release, reverb/delay settings, etc. All are much more obvious. The difference in treble response is requiring some unlearning, but I'm liking what I am discovering.
I have found that some tracks previously rejected when listening on the PMC now sound great on the Druids. I will know more after I finish a variety of sample mixes.
I even played some plugged-in acoustic guitar and electric bass directly through the mixer into the Druids, and they are outstanding for that. I'm almost thinking of taking them to a live gig this weekend to use for PA mains.... but realistically they are not really suited for road use with their exposed components. I could see making some cabinets for them if it works out, though.
Steve |
I will certainly agree that these Druids are the finest sounding speakers we've ever heard. Just amazing emotional presentation, at any volume level.
I'm running Bel Canto eVo 200.2 amps with each of my two pairs of Druids. Could not be happier with this combination.
Libtec cables on one pair and Wax on the other. By all means try the Zu cables, they are outstanding. My old favorite Kubala-Sosna went away quick after trying the Zu.
Both sets are on carpet. I had machined some 1" aluminum plates for bases, but found no extreme difference in my rooms from just spiking to the floor, so that is where they live now.
I did finally put a Hsu subwoofer back into each system, may upgrade those to Mini Method one day. But they are not doing much, just a touch of gain at 40 Hz and below.
I think I mentioned that after trying the Druids for movies, I ended up just removing my center and surround speakers from the (formerly 5.1) HT room, am only using the single pair of Druids and the sub. Much better sound for all movies, TV, and music, for my tastes.
Shadhorne, I was reminded that you asked for pictures, I had forgotten this thread. Here is the HT room:
http://www.sunsetwind.com/Druid_GS_30/100_2555_30c.jpg
and here is the recording studio:
http://www.sunsetwind.com/Druid_GS_30/100_2560_30c.jpg
http://www.sunsetwind.com/Druid_GS_30/100_2561_30c.jpg
Along with the sheer joy of listening to the Druids for pleasure, there is *no* doubt, these are the best mixing/mastering monitors I've ever used. Better than my PMC, SLS, Tannoy, Dynaudio, B&W, Celestion, whatever. So easy to hear the qualities of the sound. And never any listening fatigue.
Steve |
You are welcome Macrojack, and my thanks to you as well for all your reviews and discussions of the Zu speakers. I might not have been as willing to consider them without pioneers like you doing the trailblazing, I hope you keep it up. But I'm from the Show-Me state, and had to experience it myself to really know how they would suit my needs. As I do every piece of audio equipment I ever comment on. Wish more folks would just do that simple thing, and not have to argue about why they cannot work. Their loss.
I can honestly say that in the short time I have had the Druids, they have helped me get mastering contracts that I otherwise would not have. The ability to hear and adjust the midrange is just about the most important factor for creating the tone of the final CDs, and the Druids are the best at this I've ever found. No hyped treble that might leave me guessing at the top end. And the clean, fast bass response is the finishing touch, offers such a realistic presentation that allows me to shape sounds that will translate well on a wide range of playback systems.
I've heard what the competition on my latest project were producing from their 'multi-crossover self-powered super detailed reference monitors', usually with a !hole! where a midrange driver should be. Some of those samples were pretty painful to my ears. And I am also guilty of doing similar things in the past.
I am so done with that type of audio reproduction. The Zu's just present the honest emotion and allow me to keep that feeling plus the real dynamics of the music. Whether just listening or while polishing the mixes to a smooth, vintage, analog sound. I should probably shut up about that, will lose my advantage if the other guys catch on. ;)
Steve |
Jack, the short version is: We preferred the Libtec.
Of course, it will depend on the type of sound the listener wants. For us, we compared them directly and pretty easily picked our favorite. That was using the Druid Mk4's and Bel Canto only, in our rooms. Obviously if using different equipment and rooms and ears, other cables might work differently. Or not.
I had the Libtec first, used for a while in the HT then moved them to the studio. I then bought Wax and put in the HT room. We could immediately tell the difference, but wanted to get some run in time and make sure before final decisions.
After several weeks of using both, I ran a single cable of each type to two Druids set side by side in the recording studio. This was mono only, which I have found usually helps focus on the tonal differences in equalizers, which is what cables really are anyway. Results might vary a bit in overall stereo image, etc. with a pair of speakers, but I think not enough to outweigh the frequency response of the singles in my experience.
Now both cables are fairly long -- Libtec is 12 ft, Wax is 15 ft. This might affect the responses, but actually should provide even more sensitivity to variations. Playback was an ordinary HHB studio CD player/recorder going through Lavry Blue for DA then to Presonus Central Station passive switcher/attenuator. Interconnects are decent grade Straightwire 75 ohm S/PDIF coax and superb Belden 89207 Teflon plenum balanced cable that I made myself. I've used that chain plenty, it is reliable and has transparent sound quality.
So, they are both nice speaker wires. My wife/studio partner/singing partner and I took turns switching and listening blind to each, up close and from various distances. Turns out that listening blind didn't last for long, the differences were obvious.
We played a variety of excellent productions that I almost always use for comparisons -- The great Bob Ludwig's *master*piece of Dire Strait's 'On Every Street'; Emmylou & Lanois' collaboration on 'Stumble Into Grace'; Van Morrison's 'Back on Top'; and The Wailin' Jennys first album '40 Days'. Plus some material that I've recorded and a current mastering project for someone else.
Lynnie and I occasionally have some contradictory opinions on audio choices, sometimes completely 180 degrees. Some of it is gender related, there is no question that females hear differently than males. And I take advantage of her musical training and excellent hearing to balance my own opinions.
Well, this shootout was unanimous. It was immediately obvious when switching that the Libtec just presents more emotion. And that is the bottom line for us.
Wax is a great cable, beating out the other options I still have left around here (Kubala-Sosna and Tara Prism). It is a 'dry' sound compared to the Libtec and those others. Wax also reveals the most powerful dynamics I've ever heard, the drum hits on those reference recordings were really special. I think the overall tone is a bit forward, seems to have almost a reverse smiley curve around 1 kHz. This can really punch those drums to the front.
So the sound of Wax with the Druids is very detailed in the midrange, can get almost a bit 'honky' if the recording has some of that already. But not in a bad way. It's a pretty unique sounding cable in my experience, and I liked much of its character, particularly with vocals. You know how it is trying to describe sound, especially cable effects. I'll just say it was a strong, open, dry sound, with no hyped bass or treble and a slightly forward midrange. Can make vocals and drums sound larger than life, brings out the wood in acoustic instruments. I did not think it was a completely accurate presentation of the raw recordings I have done of us singing and playing, but it was a fun variation.
Libtec is pretty much the opposite. A bit lush, but not overdone. Definitely not hyped. Clear and beautiful, with the most remarkable intensity in the midrange. This cable brings out texture and resonance and harmonics, feels like I am hearing the live sources. It was hard to do A-B comparisons with the Libtec -- when switching to it, we didn't want to switch back. We just got captured by the emotional energy in the music and wanted to keep listening. I wish Zu could bundle these with every Druid sold, they are that wonderful in bringing out the full response of the already outstanding Druid speaker.
Hope that helps. Just our opinions of course, but that is all we have to work with every day.
And remember, we are unique, just like everyone else :)
Steve |
Jack, I can hardly imagine two more opposite sounding speakers than Druids and heritage Klipsch. I've used/owned La Scala, Heresy, and KHorns, and those compression squawkers and squreamers always gave me a case of 'icepicks in the ears' with most modern recordings, especially since the bass is so subdued/out-of-proportion at normal listening levels. I always ended up wiring up my own crossovers and bi/tri-amping to try to get some bass into them without having to run at 100 dB.
Maybe the Cornwall is different. Just curious why/how you are trying to mate them with Druids? But I know about dragging up old favorites from years gone by. I have tried a few times to resurrect my old Celestion Dittons and get them to fit into current systems -- with no luck.
Steve |
