Zu def 4 are they the best speaker made?

So, to sum up, ZU Def 4s are the best speakers. Done. This fact does simplify things as I'm sometimes asked, "Garcia, what are the best speakers?" Now I just say, "ZU Def 4s." It's kind of a relief really…now I can move on to other issues I've been neglecting.

Yes, best meat is the chicken . Why ?  Because. 

They’re certainly the best ever speaker, IN MY ROOM, SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE.
But since no one else has my room, system, experience, it’s a bit of a mute point as an opinion/question.
I’ve been running them since 2013, initially with Hovland tube HP200 pre/Radia SS power, then all-tube Audion Quattro pre/Black Shadow 845 SETs, and now all-tube Nat Audio Utopia pre/SE2SE 211 SETs.
The NATs are truly special powering the Def4s.
I’ve modded them with Sean-approved Lundahl transformers and Duelund caps, replaced the stock spikes w Symposium Rollerblocks, and most critically installed them in a new room with plenty of space around them (9’ to front walls, 4’ to side walls, 8’ apart, 12’ to seat) with absolutely stunning acoustics (I am truly blessed with my new room), and bulletproof power (isolated feed to room, 8kVA Westwick balanced power, Oyaides dedicated lines).
What was a pretty enjoyable but overly rough sound in my old, poor room, has now transformed into a world-beating one. Bass is truly controlled, expressive, extended and nimble. Mids are the biggest winner, maintaining the Zu DNA of tone density and immersion, but now doing the audiophile checklist of stage depth, imaging, texture, delicacy and air. Treble is sweet and sublime.
Its taken 5 years to get to this point, especially 12 months of wrangling the new room, spending a fortune on it in the process, but the Definitions are truly revealed to be stellar performers, with what I still contend is a unique combination of horn-like immediacy, old-school heft, texture and density, with a real ability to communicate the musicians’ intent. Here the true 101dB efficiency always shows its advantages.
But as I’ve found, they can flatter to deceive, and it’s taken me a spend 7x what I paid for them, on room acoustics and power grid, and very careful setup to get them to reveal their true magic.
I contend I may very well have the best sounding pr of Definitions 4 in existence.
And so, yes, the Definitions 4s are the best spkrs ever made.

Mine too!!

This discussion is like a progressive rock fan trying to get a blues fanatic to agree that his favorite band is the better than any other musical group out there. (You can substitute any other group/musician/genre you wish to create a meaningful example for yourself.)

It ain't gonna happen; no agreement will be reached.

Why is it such a hard concept to understand that each of us has our own preferences whether the subject is speakers, music, food, sports, and on and on?

Mlsstl,  I'm a prog rock fan as well as Zu acolyte, so you're mentioning all the BEST things.
The BEST genre, thru the BEST spkrs, sounds the BEST ever.
Now, are we done? LOL

 I  was going  to  explain the anatomy  Zu  Definishion speakers and main
difference from convenience 3 way Hi end speakers,  but some
audiophile dont like long post and  technical explanation . 
To say shortly , Zu Def get luck midbass .  How is affect to sound , is less body full.. less piano low registred, less punch  to compare . 

Well said Bache, and indeed, luck midbass seems to be an issue.

PWI (posting while intoxicated) is seldom a wise decision Bache. 

@wolf_garcia
yes luck midbass is issue, coudn  fixed by add active woofer module
because is cover 20-150hz, and  you can see  gap (if you use any measurement system)  up to 700Hz,   good designed 3 way conventional
speakers is free from this problem , using crosspoint 500-700hz, and
balanced . To avoid this issue  in  high sensitivity LS
based on wide range driver like Zu 10"   i see only one way  to add additional midbass driver to fill this gap , and make is active ( loaded
on separate amp and active crossover) i know is complicated , but
it was made it in  my  Bache audio-002 http://bacheaudio.com/bache-audio-002ab-loudspeakers-v2-stereotimes-com/

I think our friend Mr Bache means LACK of midbass.

I'm sticking with "luck" as it seems more interesting. And to respond to his response, I use 3 way Klipsch Heresy IIIs crossing at 850 and 5000hz with 2 dissimilar REL subs (a 10' front firing and a an 8" down firing) so there is no luck of mid bass. 

Sorry, i mean Lack of midbass. , in the speakers based om wide band
driver . @wolf_garcia  for 3 way Klipsch Heresy i assume you 
have enough midbass (Luck)

Interestingly (at least to me) one of the characteristics of the Heresy III is that although it doesn't do deep bass (they just bail at 58hz or so), when I turn the subs off to hear the bass they do manage to produce they have an extremely coherent and clear tone...great mid bass actually...but the subs fill in that last bit of room warming deep bass.

One thing that cracks me up with this thread is that people are judging Zu's sound based on what they hear at shows.  Zu doesn't play the same 10, "audiophile" tracks that you hear in EVERY ROOM AT EVERY SHOW.  They play real music that they and younger audiophiles want to hear and they hardly ever play the same track twice.  I've had the pleasure of hanging out in their room (no I'm not a, "paid fanboy") and watched 70+ year old men hobble out of their room shaking their heads.  So what?  The industry shouldn't be catering too the old guys with all the money and a handful of years to live.  That is why the industry is dying.  Companies should be catering to younger people who still have their hearing with a dream of owning amazing sounding speakers.  I'm young, my wife is young, we still have our hearing and we visit every single room at every show we go to.  We visited every room at RMAF before we easily and without hesitation settled on Zu speakers.  Why did we go with Zu?  Because you can sit in front of them all day and not get listening fatigue.  Because you can run them all day every day.  Because you can have a serious listening session with aesthetically beautiful speakers, an amazing sound stage, clear musical bass, crystal clear and unoffensive highs, and a beautiful midrange. 
Personally, I think the thing that pisses, "audiophiles" off about Zu is their anti audiophile image.  You can't take young, charismatic, and edgy people in your stuffy industry.  But hey, I'm just a lazy, entitled millennial, so what do i know.         

I have Zu Def 4s and like them a lot. I visit Zu rooms (ie, at last weekend's CAF) both to say hello to Sean and his colleagues (who are invariably customer friendly) as well as to collect "new music" - or at least music that is new to me. It is a terrible way to evaluate most equipment. It is a great way to collect new music. And I am one of the old white guys rapidly approaching 70 (although I do not hobble) . . . 

That's awesome!  I get a ton of new music from them every time I visit their room as well.  My last post was a tad militant, sorry about the attack on age, but I get so frustrated when people hate a company with no cause that is doing so much good for the industry.  I've also witnessed a lot of older gentlemen say a lot of nasty/rude things to the Zu crew because they didn't like their music.  My wife and I are hoping to upgrade to the Defs soon or possibly the Experience when they come out.   

Oh. And I hope that I have more than a “handful” of years to live. 

Of course, I didn't meant to imply otherwise.  But, let's be honest, the industry is catering to older people who already have the money to spend on very expensive systems.  They are doing nothing to foster relationships and bring new, young people into the lifestyle.  I have walked into every stereo shop in my area and been treated like a second rate citizen because I'm young, and I don't dress to impress the salesmen.  The industry is missing out on a huge opportunity with the revival of vinyl in younger circles.  HiFi shops and exhibitors should be falling over themselves to talk to young people that visit them, not shun them for not having $100K to spend on their first set up.     

You hit the nail on the head when you said that Sean and his colleagues are, "invariably customer friendly."  They will talk shop with anyone and that is why it is so maddening to see how they are treated at times (not all the time).  They are the nicest, most approachable people in the industry.  I am very appreciative of companies and reviewers who put information on Youtube.  I used to walk up to them at shows and thank them for their work and information.  Not a single time did they look me in the eye and engage me in conversation or give me more than a one word reply.  Trying to engage the AV showrooms crew was the worst experience I've had since entering the hobby.

Back to the OP's original post.  I have never had the pleasure of hearing the Defs, but I have a good friend (that is twice my age) who has the new Druid Mk VIs and they are the best speakers I have ever heard.  They were good at RMAF, but in his home, they are mind blowing.  They are a completely different speaker than the Druid Vs and there is very good justification for the big jump in price. 

One point that was brought up earlier in the thread is that people don't like how Zu's product sounds with the amps they are paired with at shows.  I can tell you, that when you pair their speakers with the proper gear, you will be greatly rewarded.

My wife and I researched and listened to every option in our price range and not a single thing came close to the realism, sound stage, clarity, or emotion that our speakers produced.  Ignore the haters, most of them are shops or salesmen who don't like when a company sells direct and produces a significantly better product for a fraction of the price.  

Have you ever visited DejaVu Audio in the Washington DC area? Most of the staff are young and approachable. It is my favorite audio store. 

Sean delivered and set up my Def 4s personally. I have not moved them from where he positioned them. And if you call ZuAudio, a real person answers the phone, is helpful, etc.

I have not, but I'm headed to DC in a month or so, I'll definitely check them out.  

Sean, Gerrit, Harvey, Ian and the rest of the crew are all awesome people.  They are incredibly knowledgeable and know how to help.  

I’ve had my Def 4s about 5 years now and feel I can make some valid observations. They are very dependent on the amps and electronics upstream. Their transparency is revealed with certainty with the slightest variable introduced. Yes the right amps, preamp, front end, tubes selected all become a factor, I believe more so than many speakers due to the fact that the full range drivers are wired directly to the amps.
Their immediacy is startling and somewhat unusual, but their variation on different source material tells me they don’t color as much as reveal what the source provides.
Another pair of other factors are significant. The down firing subs are sensitive to room placement as distance from the walls and reflection play into the equation. The other factor is their sensitivity. While this makes them ultra dynamic in both a macro and micro sense it also causes them to be very sensitive to noise in the electricity. When this is addressed effectively depth and presence increase, giving a very in the room, at the hall presentation.  With the elimination of crossovers very little is masked and realism is there in spades.
I doubt the audio shows allow this level of setup and this is largely responsible for the widely variable opinions regarding them. Frankly, with dirty power they can sound pretty shouty. 
Spirit’s opinion as stated "in his room" carries more info than might be evident on the surface. When one has a speaker like the Def 4 the potential begs the effort to address what might bring it to fruition. Some things are just worth working for.

Is the subwoofer section hard to dial in on the definitions? Basically, like setting up a traditional subwoofer?

Hey, sorry to revive a dead thread here... But I’m running a vintage 40wpc (McIntosh mc240) and I’m looking to find a highly sensitive full-range speaker. Horn arrays are out of the question (WAF).

I find it’s hard to find anything to compete against these ZUs....What else is out there with a full range (sub included, or meaningful bass extension) and this (101db) kind of sensitivity? In a single floorstander? Price no option.

Jas, nothing much else re this combination. I believe Zu needs about 40W to come alive...in my case 70W triodes gets my Defs 4 to fully saturate my space approx 4x larger than most standard living spaces.

Zu Audio Factory visit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9lIuTuzjEg 

 A lot people think the Zu Soul Supremes are the best kept secret !