If cupracer buys his Wilsons new, and he is, then the dealers is obligated to set up the speakers correctly in his room. It comes with the purchase price. This is Wilsons rule.
Wilson Sasha 2 or Alexia for small room 10' x 17'?
I went to audition the Wilson Sabrina at a local shop. I so wanted to love these speakers because of the reviews, price and compact size. Unfortunately, I could not (don't hate me Sabrina owners). I did, however, fall in love with the Sasha 2. It seemed to do everything and more that I was looking for and I am hoping this speaker will be a speaker I can live with for a very long time. After thinking about it, I wondered, is the difference between the Sabrina and Sasha 2 smaller or greater than the Sasha 2 and current Alexia? The room has good acoustics, Mcintosh C50 pre, MC152 amp and as noted above, is very small. Would there be too much bass and overwhelm the room. I have not heard the Alexias and was wondering if any owners or listeners familiar to both can comment on the differences and similarities and give impressions as to how they might work in my small room. I currently own and like very much the Sonus Faber Venere 3.0 but am looking for more. At this point, I am pretty sure I will go with the Sashas but am looking for guidance from someone with experience especially since it is very hard to locate the Alexias and hear personally. Thanks for your opinions
98 responses Add your response
Again, Grpu, you put me on the defensive with all your bull and your defender of morality and propriety, stance. This is a forum, for open exchange, I explained my affiliation and offered a simple alternative, which is no different than some of the other posters who sometimes reply on these threads. You complained that your issue was with meeting Dave and being turned off by his promoting and extolling the virtues of a pair of Usher speakers at a show? Correct, and that in your words his "hyperbolic" presentation turned you off, gee it seems to me that a Vandersteen dealer promoting the new 7’s would be saying the same things. Usher speakers offered also very advanced driver technology, and at the time produced great sound for usually less money then many of their competitors, so wouldn’t you be exposing that concept, great sound for less money? Would any dealer who is representing this brand then say an Usher speaker is a better speakers then brand Y, I highly doubt it, the demo would be about creating great sound and offering a competitive product that might sound as good as brand Y for less money, and as I pointed out Usher in the next few years got a lot of traction for just that offering fantastic sound quality for less. Two people who actually came here and visited the shop,with one man owning a pair of Wilson 8s, came to our defense. The man who owned the Wilson 8’s said he thought the Personas were better, interesting isn’t it? If I may remind you it is you that went out of your way to raise and cast aspersions on a person’s character and motivations. What I said was a few sentences about how there may be a product which because of its room correction technology may enable this man to produce the results he is looking for in a small room, it was you who continued to push and hence there were lengthy exchanges to explain my position. Taste and preference is a personal thing, we strive to find outstanding products, and if you think that many dealers aren’t in it just for the money think again, there are plenty that sell products they carry because they are easy to sell or are established reference brands. I also advised this man to have his dealer bring over and setup these speakers in his room to guarantee that he is happy. It certainly doesn’t seem that through a forum post anyone is going to change this man’s mind. He likes Wilson’s that is great, let’s just make sure he is getting the results he is paying for which is the coaching I would have given him if he was dealing with us in the first place. You don’t sell Wilson Max for guys with small rooms, but I am sure there are dealers who took the money and run. |
Audiotroll I said I was done with this thread, but your completely false summary of my objections to your postings here (and in another thread) cannot stand. I am not threatened, as you say, to anyone who prefers any speaker over Wilsons. As in all audio choices, the choice of speaker is a deeply personal one and there is no such thing as "the best". There are many times when I prefer other speakers myself. Unlike you, I have never trolled a thread about a speaker brand other than Wilson and put in my unsolicited 2 cents about how the OP should consider Wilsons. If I did as a nondealer, that would be acceptable conduct here. Let's look at your conduct just on this thread. The OP asked about issues he had deciding between 2 Wilson models. You swoop in not only to promote Paradigm Personas but to promote your organization and many of the brands you carry (you mention over a dozen). You also extol the talents of Dave (your boss) in having a track record of finding high value great sounding products.You claim your dealership, unlike others, is sound loyal vs brand loyal, has years of sound experience and provides valuable insight to the members here. Right. That would be a fact for every dealer I patronize, but they don't have to say it and I don't have to read it here on Audiogon. The OP purchased Wilsons on the 17th, but days later you are still here talking about me (as if I'm a problem) and Ohlala who was actually defending you. Let's see----oh yes, that means you are a troll and a shill. Now, can you just go away? |
Ohlala, the Sashas and Sabrinas were heard in the same room which was to my eye about 22' x 24'. I did not have the opportunity to hear the Evette. Both dealers near me did not have them to demo. I did however prefer the separate box design for tweeter and mid that the Sasha had compared to the single box of the Evette. Both dealers did not try to guide me in that direction ......possibly because they did not have any for me to hear. It would be interesting to hear and compare the 3 speakers. As far as the Sashas sounding boomy, I will soon see. I don't think that will be the case though as my impression of them was not very bass overdone and the room acoustics will minimize much of the negativity. The SF Venere did sound good but needed a sub to sound full range to my ear. I expect to not need the sub system with the Sashas. I do like hearing and feeling bass though........ |
Gee Ohlala I don't know if that is a compliment or a dig, if it was a compliment, I think that people who work in dealerships can be a great resource as they have tremendous real world experience, and for that reason a dealer's response may be very helpful. If it was a dig then you need to understand where I am coming from: Most of my responses were about being attacked by Grpu who obviously feels threatened that there may be a product better than a Wilson that he already owns, and as I said both Dave and I owned Wilsons before, so we both like and respect the Wilson sound, it is however a sound and it is a product with specific strengths and weaknesses as all of these products have. None of these products are perfect including the brands we sell! Our philosophy is different, some dealers are brand loyal, while others are sound loyal. We have moved in and out of numerous lines, chasing great sound, while some of our competitors just stick with the same lines and never explore some of the newer and sometimes more adventurous lines of new products which are out there. I know of certain dealers who have always sold B&W no matter if B&W was building the best speaker or not at the time, etc, etc. If you noticed I never said that one product was better I said he should check them out because they may, and I use the word may, have been the perfect product for this gentleman's room and setup, and then again maybe not, Beryllium drivers sound very different then silk and wood pulp based drivers, and in some setups can be too revealing. I will say that Wilsons can sound really good with a lot of different gear, I don't think the Personas are as forgiving and are more likely to sound more forward, which is why Grpu probably didn't like them, when he heard them, also they do sound different, there are Wilson guys, Magico guys, Vandersteen guys etc, and I am sure all of those people totally think that there choice is the best. As I explained earlier, the sole reason I even posted on this thread was to point out a product that Cupracer probably wasn't thinking about, at this point very few people have heard the new Persona line, and the press is just starting to review them, so very few purchasers are even thinking of this line. The main point was here is a competitive product that will or can work well in a small room, because the product was designed using technology which allows for room compensation in the bass, and in passing, I said if this gentleman was on the East Coast he should check them out. Only after Cupracer mentioned that he was at Lyric was there any possibility of him hearing the speakers at our shop, once he started the thread he could have been anywhere in the world, so the likely-hood of him being close to us was only a remote possibility at best, this means we had nothing to gain. I find it odd that almost none of you are concerned that the Sashas with their 20hz or so bass response will sound remotely good in this room vs his old Sonus Fabers which probably don't go down past 40hz, which would mean the Sonus Fabers would sound better in the bass then the more capable Wilsons. Cupracer has a great room, however, I feel that it is too small especially for the short wall to sound anything other then boomy with a pair of Sashas, I guess time will tell once Cupracer gets the speakers, I would advise him to only continue with the purchase if Lyric will setup a pair in his room before he takes delivery to guarantee they will work, and Cupracer will be happy. I hope that clarifies my position and I wish Cupracer nothing but the best. |
996cupracer, can I ask in approximately what size room did you audition the Sabrinas? Same room as Sasha? In defense of audiotroy, he is dealer; he is not some low-life shill. If only shills were criticized so pointedly. |
I think there have been a few posts on this thread that are, perhaps a bit disrespectful to the OP's question. It was clear, at least to me, that his choice was made for Wilsons, but just wanted HELPFULL advice on the Sashas, or Sabrinas, being right for his room size. His decision was made, just wanted to know what model may suit his room . It seemed like a pretty simple question. He did not ask for advice on choosing a lineup of different manufacturers that offered models in his price range. Why not just give him advise on what he was actually asking, instead of side tracking the thread to what your choices in manufacturers would be, for him to compare to. Damn it, he knew what he wanted. Respect that!! |
Sorry to sound to you as shameless. If I was a reader of these posts I would find many of these comments helpful and for your edification, we have talked to other people who have found much of what I have said to be helpful and insightful. The main reason for posting about the Personas had nothing to do with trolling a Wilson post, it was due to you looking at an Alexia and offering you another option for a speaker that would work well. Please feel free to give us a call if you are in our area and do want to check out the Personas, I think you would have had a great time visiting our shop. I was just curious as to your shopping experiences and how you went about it and what speakers were on your list? The Sashas are very good speakers, I agree with you about preferring them over the B&W, which I find the Diamond tweeters to be a bit much, Golden Ear aren't in this league. As per the Alexias, they are too big for your room and yes they do sound similar. Again, good luck with your Sashas. |
I went to the 4 best dealers within a 50 mile radius and heard about 15+ speakers. I could have heard more, but as I said in an earlier post, I knew my work was done when I heard the Sasha 2s. Doubt was left since I have not heard the Alexias and was told they were similar to the Sashas but more. Everybody hears and appreciates sounds differently explaining why some prefer a certain style of speaker, Honestly, audiotroy you would be more persuasive if you were not so shameless. Give it a rest since you are accomplishing the opposite of your intentions. Trying to talk someone into liking something that you like (and may benefit financially from) is pointless when most are capable of making up their own mind. The above being said, if I get the chance to audition the Persona, I will take it as mild curiosity. |
Hey James sticks and stones. I will stick to my guns, we make great sound and sell fantastic products so if you want to open up your mouth go right ahead. What I have said about the Personas does seem to ring true or the Absolute Sound wouldn't have said such nice things about them. You guys who doubt will see, the Persona is a world class product. Per cupracer enjoy your Wilsons they are very good speakers, and I would take them over the other speakers you mentioned, although I have very limited experience with the Sopras, but they probably have a slightly more forward less bass type of sound vs the Wilsons. I would have gone to some of the other dealers and listened to the other competitive products at this price range, but that is just me. I am curious to see if you did that or just checked out what one dealer was selling before you pulled the trigger? |
I'm using a pair of Sasha 2 in a 20' x 26' Room with great results including deep powerful bass. The Sasha 2 represent a much better value (at $20K less) and imo are nicer looking than the similarly sounding Alexia when used in a mid-sized Room that doesn't require the extra Bass Energy that the Alexia provides. |
@996cupracer Congrats on your purchase. I hope you will find them to be the right choice, once you have them set up in your room. Have fun with that too!! I am a Wilson owner as well, and man oh man they can be pretty frustrating to get placed correctly, but once you nail it, they are great. As audiotroy mentioned earlier, room correction can be of great benefit. I have a relatively small room as well, and moved from my Watt Puppys, to the Maxx 2’s. I don’t think the maxx’s would be bearable in my room without the RC unit. I use the McIntosh MEN 220, and am quite happy with it. Lets hope I haven’t opened up the whole room correction can of worms !! Enjoy your new Wilson cupracer!!! |
First to 996cupracer, enjoy your Wilsons they are very fine speakers and incidentally I owned Wilson 3s and 5s in the past so I know a lot about the Wilson house sound. The reason I commented on this post, was your interest in the Alexia which would not work well in your room and to mention an option that you might not have known about or even considered. Whether you like product A or product B is not the issue, the issue in my mind is the negativity and brand zealotry that many audiophiles in this forum exhibit. To Grpu I never said that the Paradigms are better speakers then a Wilson or a Magico or any of the other brands that I mentioned, I said they do certain things as well or perhaps better as many of the well known reference speakers brands that everyone is always discussing. that is not to say that they are better speakers, that is for the listener to determine. As per the Absolute Sound Magazine the full review isn't out until next month, however, the snippet of the review shows that indeed Paradigm has built a product which can compete with Wilson, Magico, YG etc, and again it is up to the potential purchaser to seek out a good demo and judge for themselves, it does look like Paradigm has arrived and has shown the world that they can build a true reference product. I did say we preferred the Personas to the other reference speakers we have tested in our shop including the Kharmas, which were excellent just not worth $120k, we also sell the KEF Blades which I do think are superb, I think the Personas do certain things better and I prefer due to the greater transparency of the Paradigms As per Dave's track record on finding and picking very high value to dollar and great sounding products his record is clear, we do not say that all of our products are the best we like them for what they do for a particular reason, taste and price point. Usher made and still makes a fantastic product, we chose to drop them due to their weight and lack of a new US distributor. I would still take a pair of Scaena loudspeakers compared to the Wilson Alexandria, we chose to move on from them for reasons not relating to their sound which was some of the best we have ever experienced, by the was Johnathan Valin raved over them too! Other brands we have championed include Conrad Johnson, Nuforce now Nuprime, T+A, Aqua Hifi, Light Harmonic. We have many brands of speakers in our shop, including Dali, KEF, Legacy, ATC, Paradigm, Gradient, Vivid, Tannoy and others. We are very found of ATC which do not use exotic drivers either, they use paper cones and silk tweeters by the way. ATC makes all their own drivers and their drivers are superb, the are also very holographic and very dynamic. We would still say that for an ultimate reference speaker there are advantages in superior lighter and stiffer materials which we feel create a more pinpoint soundstage and greater low level detailing. We have the $70k Polymer Research MKXs which uses the extremely expensive Acuton pure diamond midrange and tweeter in a 400 lb enclosure and I think you would freak out after hearing this level of transparency and holography. We are choosing to focus more on the Paradigm Personas as they are $35k less than the Polymers, have adjustable room tuning and come in stunning colors and have a full line of speakers instead of one model add to that the Polymers are 400lbs and tough to transport is the reason. A forum is a place where ideas get exchanged it is not for the exclusion or inclusion of a particular group and back to Grpu your thinking and reasoning is specious, dealers are not allowed to sell into other territories and many people in these forums live on a different coast and will visit their local dealer and not us, so we have nothing to gain. Many of the people who post here offer ridiculous comments which show their lack of experience, and your criticality of what a "dealer says" is just about selling a product is ridiculous. All I know is most dealers must purchase their products, if a dealer is buying a product unless that dealer is completely dishonest to themselves, are purchasing products that they believe in and are impressed in enough to purchase and therefor recommend. Again directed to Grpu if you don't think that some of the avid posters here are not in your words "shills" for Vandersteeen or for Harbeth or Magico, whatever, think again. The final word will always be the customer and we are proud of our products and we would welcome you to hear for yourself these products at our shop just to see for yourself just how good or bad in your minds the new Personas actually are.
|
Gerry, yes I raced a cup car in PCA only for about 20years starting 944 turbo, a 993 cup and ending with a 996 cup. I very recently sold the 996. Great car, great people and great times. I am very lucky to have enjoyed these wonderful race cars! Just as I am looking forward to enjoying the Wilsons. Curiously, they are seemingly made from drivers that are not made from exotic and high tech materials, but the sound is anything but ordinary. The lack of use of the latest and greatest driver materials attracts the most criticism. Their research and engineering has clearly paid off.. Wilson has many people lined up willing to exchange tens and even hundreds of thousands for a pair of their speaker. These are not all people with more dollars than sense. Most who can afford these well made pieces of joy are smart enough to know better than to get snookered. They let their ears be the judge to what pleases. In my limited exposure in this fascinating and engrossing hobby, it is not easy to find a more engaging and dynamic experience. Their sound is not for everyone, but that can be said of every speaker made. They certainly seem to have a devoted cult following with many people traversing through the entire line. |
First - a real tangent: Is the original poster actually a Porsche cup car owner? I raced Porsches in IMSA as a professional driver in the 1990's, then in club racing. My wife and have owned 15 911's, including several cup cars. Sorry for the distraction. About the Wilson speakers - I have a pair of WattPuppy 7 speakers. My local dealer, Paragon Sound here in Ann Arbor (a great place!), as well as Dave Wilson, recommended a room no smaller than 13 x 19 ft. We were careful about adding both diffusers and absorbers to the basement room - great improvement in sound. FWIW- My system is McIntosh, MCT450/D150 into the recently updated C22 tube preamp and then a C275 into the Wilson speakers. The sound is incredible on most of the DSD files that I have, others are too "bright." |
Get yourself Bowers Wilkins new 802D3! Much more musical and refined than any Wilson at any price..... Will work in your room greatly too. Actually the 803 D3s will work fantastic just as well. You will save a lot of money as well, which will allow you to get Symphonic Line Rg4 MK4 monoblocks, that are fantastic with B&Ws and true bi-wired Cardas golden Cross speaker cables. If you like Sonus Faber type sound get the Elipsa model. They are most musical in their line up and since they being discontinued (unfortunately), you should get a hefty discount as well.. Also much more musical than any Wilson at any price :) If you listen to the actual music that is, and not to 25 audiophile recording all the time ;) ...Myself, I d go with B&W & Symphonic Line combo thou, but Elipsas are superb as well in room size like yours... Stereo Exchange in NYC has them both in NY in rooms that are similar to yours. Granted they use crappy cables and crappy Devialet with them the last time I visited, but you should get an idea.... |
Audiotroy and Kuppe38 You both have no shame and, more importantly, no credibility. And neither of you read well. As I have said on numerous occasions, Audiotroy is a salesman at Audiodoctor who should be banned form trying to sell his gear on Audiogon. Period. As of a few years ago with our former moderators, that would have already happened without my input. Audiotroy is doing no one a service, especially his breathlessly hyperbolic dealer, Audio Doctor, by trolling a Wilson thread to show Wilson owners the light of what he tries to sell as a better product. It frankly doesn't matter if he truly believes it. I know and patronize many dealers who think what they sell is the best there is and have every right to do so. Imagine if one rep from every dealer trolled threads regarding products they do not sell to show everyone on that thread the light with respect to the stuff they do sell. It would destroy the forum. That's exactly what Audiotroy is doing. Re: the Personas. In fact, I liked them and said that I expect them to be well reviewed and a bargain at that. I liked them at the NY audio show. I have since heard them at a dealer NOT Audiodoctor-- and my opinion has not changed. They are very good, a bit hard and bright (you call transparent). But they are not world beaters. But I will say that Paradigm is a great speaker company with excellent R&D and resources who has always made great speakers for the money and should be proud of their first entry in the high end. If one thinks they are better than $100,000 Kharmas as Audiotroy once said, they are free to believe that . I own Wilsons but I am not a fanboy and I have owned many other brands. In fact, I thoroughly enjoy speakers from Rockport, Focal, Kef, Legacy, ATC, Harbeth, Verity, TAD and others too numerous to mention --- all of which have many different positive traits and all of which, on any given day, I would consider among the best speakers I have ever heard and would consider purchasing. Let's check out the newly minted Kuppe38 who says I have no integrity and that I should not slander a dealer who cares about its clients. I would never do that. I know way too many dealers who genuinely care about their clients and get much joy out of providing them with gear that provides the client with a greater insight into the music. But they don't do their selling here. My point is that we should keep dealer or manufacturer shills off this site. So far Audiotroy is one of only 4 such manufacturer dealer reps that I have consistently come across in my years here who unabashedly promotes his products. One other quit after he was hounded off (not by me) and banned by the former moderator. The other 2 are professionals who inform all on this community with their engineering intelligence and expertise and they NEVER push their own products like the ever shameless AudioDoctor crew. So Kuppe38, before you criticize anyone, try living on the site for a few years, get a feel for how this audio community is supposed to work and you may come to understand that it is set up for you and me and people like us --NOT DEALERS. I say this because you made your very first post to Audiogon within the past 3 weeks. Since then you have had 4 other posts all of which laud Audio Doctor and your visits there to hear the Personas and the Legacys. You also make 2 baseless statements (among others) that I want to address. First, you imply that I am gullible to believe Wilson's sales pitch wherein Dave claims to have tested various diamond, beryllium and other exotic tweeters and rejected them. In fact, I did not believe that but came to learn it was true. I suggest you take a tour of the Wilson factory which I have done (as I have with 3 other speaker manufacturers) where I actually saw those tweeters which Dave had in the listening room. They were all there. Second,--get your facts straight, Vandersteen does not use beryllium drivers. Beryllium tweeters can be wonderful or hot depending on the implementation. Some say balsa or carbon fibre or silk dome are better, but it's all matter implementation and taste. I will say nothing more on this topic as I have wasted too much of my valuable time scolding Audiotroy for his bad form. I have no skin in this game as he and his acolyte do. I am done. You 2 may now say what you will. Apologies to 996Cupracer for taking up space on a thread but someone has to say it. Congrats again. Enjoy your speakers and let us know what you think after they have been installed. |
Jafant, my system includes a Mcintosh c50 preamp, mc152 amp, Audioquest red river xlr, Furman power conditioner sony Hap z1es, It is currently one of the first listed virtual systems. The Focals seemed to have a hole in the upper bass region, not very well integrated with annoying shrill tweeter that also seemed to be not well integrated. Maybe it was the music selection. Sota I did consider the Alexias but the combination of cost and small room size made the Sashas a more reasonable choice. The dealer felt the bass might be overpowering in my room. In the end, I also did not want to spring for the considerable extra cash as well. Remember, I went in to hear the Sabrinas and ended up having to wrap my head around spending almost double for the Sashas. The Alexias would have been triple the Sabrinas. |
I have owned a pair of Sasha's for several years, having upgraded from Dynaudio Confidence 5's. I fell in love with Wilson speakers years ago after hearing the WATT Puppy in a dealer showroom, but they were out of my budget at that time. I spent a lot of time auditioning the Sophia vs Sasha and went for the Sasha's due to better bass control and soundstaging. I was able to hear the Alexia's at the NY Audio Show when they first came out and thought that they did everything the Sasha's did but better and more of it. If I had the dough, I would upgrade in a second! |
Went back to dealer to give final payment for speakers. I listened to the Sasha 2 again. To my ears, they sounded better than I remember. I also listened to Maggies, Golden Ear 1, Facal Sopra, B&Ws. No contest. I think I will be very happy with my decision and am excited! Yeah, there are speakers that I did not listen to but when I met "the women" or heard "the speakers" I suddenly realized that my quest was over. |
James, What kind of comment is I was disappointed by those prices I would probably have one of the more mature "high end brands." Paradigm has been building well respected speakers for years, their signature series was very highly rated and were compared against similar high performance brands and products. As per pricing the Personas use some of the most advanced driver technology in the industry and their new Pesona speakers can compete easily with Magico, YG and many others in terms of performance, so unless you think a pair of $40k Magicos is a bargain the speakers are priced actually very reasonably. In the case of the Persona 7F which is the exact same speaker as the 9H without the 2 additional internal bass drivers and active room correction, here is a speaker flat down to 19hz and sells for $25k, I do believe a comparable Magico such as the S5 which costs $38k for a similar level of performance so again I would ask you how are these new Personas overpriced? In terms of damping, Beryllium is known for both its lightness and its stiffness as well as being the only metal which is self damping, and such is a far superior material than almost all other metals which exhibit ringing such as aluminum or titanium. Your comments are unfortunately what I feel is wrong in the industry, instead of some of you being intrigued by a new product which may actually offer better sound for less money than some of the other brands out there I just hear negativity. Audio as with anything else should be about exploring and if a new product from a well established company raises the bar or offers great performance people should have an open mind. As per Gpgru negative comments about me shilling he should be ashamed of himself. I entered this post because here you have a gentleman who is interested in a superb set of speakers and is worried how well the speaker can perform in his room and along comes a new technologically more advanced product that also sounds good with one major advantage: ACTIVE ROOM CORRECTION, and none of you say hey that is a great idea, active room correction that can give this man fantastic deep bass response in HIS room. To which if I was reading that post I would have thought I would need to take a listen to those speakers. Taste is a different matter the Wilsons have a different sonic flavor than the Paradigms which are far more transparent, which might be an issue for some people, as such a transparent speaker must be carefully matched to sound good, where a Wilson speaker can be played with a lot of different gear and will still sound good. So in closing it seems that you guys will have to wait a month for the validation from the experts I liked Kuppe post from SOMEONE who actually heard the speakers, and not at a show, and thank you FinBx1 for your nice comments. So if these speakers are not that good how come the editor of the Absolute Sound said in his review: "Good things do come in a relatively small packages although this is a nearly 300 lb speaker that is 51 inches high. It uses four new ultra high excursion woofers, two 700 watt amps and ARC 2 digital room compensation to produce incredibly deep, accurate bass flat to 19hz and going as low as 15hz. It also features an advance beryllium tweeter and midrange driver and provides equally outstanding midrange and treble performance in every aspect. Detail dynamics, depth and imaging are all excellent. Sensitivity is 96db, allowing use with even low power triodes and providing, an exceptional sense of life with more powerful amps, AHC forthcoming" page 54 Absolute Sound Editors Choice 2017. Gee I guess the Absolute Sound is also shilling now aren’t they or perhaps the new Personas are truly excellent line of new speakers from an outstanding company that has always played safe who recently five years ago, decided to build a product to challenge the best speakers on the market. Its funny that I don’t hear these same arguments from the Vandersteen boys, when for years Vandersteen built great affordable speakers and then boom comes a new $60k flagship from Richard and everyone applauds him for building an aspirational product when they traditional never played in that arena before. |
I learned a long time ago that "better" engieenring does not always translate to better sound. When one aspect is over engineered (stiffness, lightness) other important aspects (damping) sometimes get over looked IMO. I have not heard the new Paradigms though a dealer 10 minutes away stocks them so maybe I should give them a try. I was disappointed by the high prices. At those prices I would probably rather have one of the more mature "high end" brands. |
We all have our opinions but owning Wilson 8's set up properly with PASS 250.5 Amp and ARC SP20 Pre with a supped up VPI Super scoutmaster in a well tuned room I agree with kuppe38 as I have heard the 9h's. I don't know what the beef is between Gpgr4blu and Audiotroy. But then everyone's ears are different and everyone is allowed to their opinion |
Boy do you Gpgr4blu believe the sales pitch from Wilson. Wilson uses inexpensive drivers. Do you actually believe that because Wilson says that they have tested exotic drivers and prefer their much less expensive drivers that that is a fact, or is it Wilson's marketing? Looks at Scanspeaks Reed driver and you will see the same driver used in many Wilson speakers and it is a http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92:h1456-08-er18rnx&cati... https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/seas-woofers-6-7/seas-prestige-er18rnx-h1456-7-reed-paper-cone... Please notice it is a $90 driver! Paradigm uses proprietary drivers you can not buy them at any price. Does that mean they are better, it does not but it does show the power of engineering, as well as showing how determined they are at making a world class loudspeaker. I have heard the Personas and they are amazing, and I have also visited the Audio Doctor showroom, Dave and Troy are two fantastic people who know their stuff, why don't you go hear the speakers for your self, not at an audio show, but at a dealers show room before you make such claims, as well as your personal vendetta to discredit a bunch of people that you met at a show. I think I read one of your previous posts that you were pissed off at Dave extolling the virtues of the Usher brand, well I checked and the Usher speakers were very highly rated. I remember the BE 718 getting rave reviews by many different publications including Soundstage, Stereophile, Six Moons and others. So if Dave was saying the Usher speakers were excellent, gee, I found numerous reviews agreeing with him. I have head the Personas and they are quite amazing sounding and I have also listened to the Wilson's at shows. I like Wilson speakers, I will say that the Personas have greater resolution, more speed, and are more holographic. I head the Alexia in the Innovative room a few years ago and quite frankly they sounded very good, not even close to the Persona 9H. You persecute a dealer and people you have not visited for the sake of being what a self professed know it all. I am sorry you should be banned. The Persona's are new, and they will be reviewed in the incoming issue of the Absolute sound, As per the superiority of Beryllium, this is not conjecture, it is a fact, a lighter stiffer material will have less coloration then paper or silk, if you look at most of the world's top speakers Magico, YG, Vandersteen, Vivid, Focal, none of these speaker companies use paper or silk. Again does this mean that Beryllium is better no it does not, is is just an interesting fact that almost none of the world's competing reference speakers use the kinds of drivers that Wilson uses. So who is believing the marketing hype. You sir a bore. You sir have no integrity and you sir are slandering a dealer who actually cares about his clients, and about finding unique and sometimes better products that are usually less expensive then their competiton. I can not afford the Personas and I am saving for an excellent pair of Legacy speakers I heard at their shop. Let me guess you are now going to also say Legacy speakers are bad because Audio Doctor sells them? Again I have seen way too many Legacy rave reviews to say otherwise. The Sashas are an excellent speaker but without hearing the Personas in a controlled environment, you have no idea if you would like them better or not. I am willing to bet that the upcoming Absolute Sound review of the Personas will verify everything I head at the demo, whether you choose to believe it or not. Just for your own edification here is what the Absolute Sound said about the contested Persona 9H loudspeakers: "Good things do come in a relatively small packages although this is a nearly 300 lb speaker that is 51 inches high. It uses four new ultra high excursion woofers, two 700 watt amps and ARC 2 digital room compensation to produce incredibly deep, accurate bass flat to 19hz and going as low as 15hz. It also features an advance beryllium tweeter and midrange driver and provides equally outstanding midrange and treble performance in every aspect. Detail dynamics, depth and imaging are all excellent. Sensitivity is 96db, allowing use with even low power triodes and providing, an exceptional sense of life with more powerful amps, AHC forthcoming" page 54 Absolute Sound Editors Choice 2017. So who is full of it, sounds like Audio Doctor is right on the money, just like Dave was right about Usher Audio, maybe you should have listened to Dave years ago. I saw some of the best brands in Audio at their showrooms so I guess Dali, PSB, KEF, ATC, Conrad Johnson, T+A, EMM Labs, and others brands that Audio Doctor sells must not be good either, why because they are selling them, I guess you must be at odds with reality, I saw three pieces of T+A audio in the 2017 issue of the Absolute Sounds Editors choice issue as well and the Absolute Sound raved over those pieces and guess what line of equipment was being played on the Personas, T+A. |
The moderators have not stopped Audiotroy so I just chime in whenever he lays the sales pitch on a thread that I happen to come upon. I say this just so everybody knows. He usually comes back to tell everyone of his and his boss' years of expertise and how they believe the Personas are the best speakers for multiples of their cost in part because Paradigm uses drivers made from beryllium (which AT touts as the unquestioned best material for drivers---although not In Dave Wilson's mind who test listened to beryllium, diamond coated beryllium, the superb Scanspeak Revelator tweeter and countless others before he settled on the silk dome used in the Sasha 2, Alexia and others), how because Paradigm has lots of money for R&D (true as do countless others), or how they have heard them against other expensive speakers that the Paradigm "blows away" and all that other B.S. that any biased speaker manufacturer or sales rep can say to, in their mind, "objectively" defend themselves. What a bore. What a drag. What a shame. Anyway----- Good luck with the Sashas. I hope that when you install them in your home, they will far exceed your expectations as they did and still do for me. |
Thanks for the info. I am kind of new here and it is bad enough the magazines are biased and always hawking something for someone. Sales people should be restricted from giving info with the sole purpose of selling something. Moderators at other sites remove posts that attempt to influence in order to sell for manufacturers. I have not seen that type of screening on this site. |
Folkfreak is right. And you can, depending on the room, place Sashas as close as 1 foot to the rear wall. Also, you are right to ignore Audiotroy, a salesman for the ever-over-reaching and hyperbolic Audio Doctor who has shilled those speakers all over Audiogon. Trust me when I tell you, the Sashas are much better speakers than the Paradigm Persona 9H which are good for the $ but not in the Sasha's league and certainly not in the same universe as the Alexias. You made the right choice. |
Given your room dimensions I'd consider locating the speakers on the long wall, spaced widely and listen in quasi near field mode. This works really well for me with Magico Q3s in my 10'x18' room. The Q3s are not ported like the Sasha's however so I can have them 2 feet from the rear wall, not sure how much breathing room you will require however |
I ultimatley felt the Alexias would be too big and costly so I did order the Sashas in Galaxy Gray today and they will arrive in about 3 to 4 weeks. I will let you know how it works out. Dan at Lyric HiFi in White Plains, NY is the man! I am excited but slightly nervous. Jafant, I thought the Sabrinas sounded very weak and were not even in the same league as the Sashas (the way it should be at twice the cost). I found them lacking in any bottom end and a sub would be an absolute must. To my ear, they were not terribly pleasant and did not sound like the Sasha 2s which I found very dynamic, open and way more involving. I much prefer my present Sonus Faber Venere 3.0 and at a quarter of the cost, they are a great value and should not be overlooked in the sub $4k price range. Thanks for everyone who commented |
I own the Wilson 8's in a 13.5 deep x 18 feet wide with an opening to right for a dining area 10x10. my opinion is the Alexia's are to big. I can add that in doing other business with Audio Dr in NJ I herd the 9h's and can say they are world class and perform at a much higher level than my wilsons. His room was similar in size I would say 13 wide x 18 deep and they did not overload the room. I have no affiliation I'm just a satisfied customer who purchased Manley gear from them. |
| Post removed |
You should consider finding a pair of the Paradigm Person 9H to listen to. The Persona can easily give a pair of Alexia's a run for their money in terms of sound quality, they can however do something that no Wilson speaker can do at any price can do, which is to work in much smaller rooms, and work well. We demoed the 9H in a similar sized room at the New York audio show and they sounded fantastic. The 9H uses active room control to cancel out standing waves and eq the bass to work in a small room. Add to that incredibly transparent pure beryllium drivers and the worlds first pure 7 inch Beryllium midrange driver for a completely coherent sound, thunderous well defined bass and 96db efficiency, and they are priced at $20k less then an pair of Alexia. If you are on the East Coast of the US please come in for a demo at the Audio Doctor showroom. |
Being a current owner of Wilson 8's and loving them in my well treated 13.5' deep by 18' wide room thats open to the left for another 11 feet for a dining area speakers on the long wall. I get all I need from them. I could not imagine going to a bigger Wilson. Im sure I could get it to work with proper placement and room treatments. But what would be the purpose if I'm happy now. I am also tired of moving or tuning speakers that weigh over 100lbs. So saying you have a 10 x 17 room I would recommend the Sasha's but as I mentioned you can make anything work if you want to. |
IMO, in a domestic environment, there is absolutely no way to predict how a speaker will work in the room. In my own experience, I've had small standmounts with 5" woofers produce a fuller bass response than floor-standers and much larger standmounts. If you are buying used, you can take a chance on a blind purchase, as you won't lose too much if you sell, but if you're buying new, at those price levels, I personally would not buy anything without hearing it in my room first. Good luck. |
I have had Sophias and later the WP7s and now Sashas in a 14 X 20 room. Going on 11 years with the WP/Sasha combo. They are simply perfect for my room. I get almost all, if not all, of the bass with very few room nodes and the presentation is all I could wish for. But guess what happens after 11 years of the same great presentation? Having heard the Alexias in a similar but slightly larger room, the sound with my amp and preamp was simply larger and more compelling all around with more impactful bass and more "you are there " or "they are here" feeling. I sometimes think about moving up. Having said that, I think I am near or on the edge of the minimum size room needed to do some justice to the Alexias. I think 10' depth (or width) does present a problem for a speaker the size of Alexia. That is, the margin of difference between the Sasha 2s and Alexias (about the same margin as between the Sabrinas and Sasha 2s) would be substantially reduced by the inability to get all that the Alexias can give. You will, on the other hand, get very much of what the Sasha 2s can deliver in your room vs the Sabrinas. The Sashas 2s are remarkable all around speakers at anywhere near their size and price range. |
