wilson ad; absolute sound;issue 162. page 12.... dave wilson states in his ad that wilson loudspeakers have one of the [ lowest ] profit margins in the industry. My question is should wilson make public their profit margin percentage's to back up their claims or is this more hyperbole from a high-end audio manufacturer...
Holenneck - Say what you will, the X-2 is still only a pair of speakers and he's got them priced like an S-Class Mercedes. I get a big disconnect when I look at that comparison. Consider what goes into that car compared to what is in the Wilson speakers. Sure volume is a factor but so is the difference in tooling and parts count and labor. Talk about man hours, the Benz must be 100 times as labor intensive with 100 times as many parts and a reputation for quality that outstrips Wilson by many years and several orders of magnitude. For these reasons I continue to ignore justifications for his pricing. He charges that much because people will pay it, not because his cost of manufacturing requires it. That argument is illogical.
The X-2's take many weeks to build. Lots of man hours and overhead are required for that one pair of speakers. they use the best drivers, their own developed cabinet materials, and the best finish quality of any speaker availible. plus, when you buy the speakers, there is professional setup included. their dealers go to provo for training. it is a speciality speaker, only the wealthiest can afford it and most that do buy them may not be audiophiles. like wilson said, they are buying into the culture not neccisarily the product. wish i had that kinda money.
Wow, a lot of strong feelings towards a "harmless" ad.
I think it's a great ad. Wilson products are expensive, and it is easy for someone to feel "wow, $28k Wp8s, i'll bet they cost $1k to make, what a ripoff," etc... But the ad serves to remind that person that there's a WHOLE LOT more you are buying than the raw parts... You are buying the knowledge, experience, operating costs, and everything else that goes into running a large, successful operation.
IMHO, the ad probably targets a segment of potential customers who like Wilson's sonics but believe they're overpriced or are being gorged. I'm not saying the ad alleviates the issue, but lots of people believe everything they read anyway ;)
I really don't understand the point of the ad at all. Why advertise something that cannot be proven nor verified by any means, and something that you will not even provide your own details to back up your claim? To me this is just irresponsible advertising period. My opinion on this has nothing to do with the speakers themeselves...
Furthermore, the profit margin is really misleading. On a cost basis let's say they were right. But the more speakers or revenue you generate via market share etc, you achieve economies of scale and bring down the fixed cost burden such as depreciation etc as well some share variable costs such as ads, back office etc. B&W can do this. On the other hand one of the key reasons some smaller or new equip makers have a large cost plus margin but low overall margin, indeed many are likely to be loss making.
At the end of the day none of this matters. Why does profit magins matter to us consumers? We only are concerned with quality of the product and affordability in the end. No one would purchase a product on the basis of an guess on the mfr's profit margin.
Now discussing his advertising. I bet there is a firm involved.
Of course he has an ad agency. I'm sure most high end companies doing remotely near his volume of sales have ad agencies. If not, they end up with ineffective, ugly crap.
Holleneck: "I am sure he never thought for a minute it would be shown on the internet and be discussed by some nuckleheads like us" Maybe you are right on this one. But I still stand by my assertion that the program was silly. Nothing more to say.
If we truly want to discuss his margins, we need to know what salary David Wilson is paying himself, his wife & what his employee payroll is. His advertising budget is enourmous as well. Also, he can do some innovative bookkeeping to keep the profit elsewhere. He could have 2 separate companies selling from 1 to the other and the profit is divided. All this is guessing but possible.
Now discussing his advertising. I bet there is a firm involved. If you see his advertising is thematic. Many different ads with different information concepts seeking to differentiate Wilson from other speakers. The advertising campaign might have a few poorly chosen examples, but this is all from the advertising firm.
On to Dave Wilson's salary. For a multi million $ company I am sure he is allowed to pay himself a huge salary & why not. I believe he pays his staff very well, but to be fair he should as he probably is sharing his growth.
I am also guessing that he manufacturers more of the product in house than many other speaker manufacturers. Other manufacturers probably farm out a lot of their production including cabinet work. Others manufacturers might not have a marketing department, customer service dept. or a quality control dept.
Holleneck - I also thought the show was silly. You are right that it could have been about farm equipment and it probably was the following week. It could have been about the upcoming fireworks display or the Prom 2 weeks ago. It was a poorly executed puff piece put on by a local news show. Dave probably helped to write the script, telling the emcee dude what questions to ask. For a company that markets itself to the rich and famous, it was embarrassingly provincial. Dave came across to me like Donald Trump. And to stay on point, I don't think there is any real justification for speakers to cost so much. Hence, I do not see them as a good value. I would say the same about a $1000 bottle of wine. It is just so far beyond the point of diminishing returns that it cannot be commensurately better than other options available for a fraction of the cost. Unlike some others, I do not feel a crime is being committed in the sale of these items though I would not choose them at one tenth of the price. Timex is just as good as Rolex. And they're both better than my ex.
again, you dont see the purpose of the video, it seems to be a cable access show within the state limits of Utah that Wilson appeared on not to advertise, but to discuss his business. When he spoke technically about his products and his company in general, it was way over the head of any of the three hosts. I doubt a single owner of Wilson speakers saw the broadcast of the show before it leaked on the internet. I believe he did the show to showcase his company to the local public and discuss his business strategy for the future. It is a business show. Wilson is a company based in Utah, they employ local people, yet they sell their speakers in over 40 countries. That is a pretty amazing success story, dont you think? I am sure he never thought for a minute it would be shown on the internet and be discussed by some nuckleheads like us, but it did. Other than that, what else is there left to say?
As a product manager for a major biotechnology firm, I find it amusing that Wilson tries to exert leverage on potential buyers by invoking a "because he doesn't charge huge margins that's good enough reason for you to buy our products." This simply plays off the ignorance of consumers, nothing wrong with that but it has nothing to do with the features and benefits of the products. That's some "clever" agency he has retained to come up with this campaign. It's as though, because I'm mostly putting more of my money into his products realtive to what he pays for them and less than what other manufacturers put into their own pockets, this is the reason I should buy Wilson? Very clever and some may bite, but in the long run if the products don't deliver, then reputation catches up. Sad that a manufacturer has to resort to such lame tactics. Makes me wonder what else he is hiding, besides the simple technical fact that you cannot deliver, at least in this universe, accurate midrange with 7 inch drivers.
Holenneck, I have been following this thread and since it started. Wilson threads are always interesting. First, I applaud Dave Wilson for his success. I see nothing wrong with him charging 28k for his WP8. There are buyers out there for the speaker and he has done a great deal of work in developing this model over the years. Second, don't accuse me of a closed mind. I have had an open mind to everything in this hobby. I actually like Wilson. I stated that I made no comment on the sound of the speakers as this was not the topic of the thread. Pay attention. I watched the whole thing because I am open minded. I found the show quite ridiculous. Perhaps this is more a commentary on the show itself rather than the topic of the show. I simply feel Dave Wilson did not do himself any favors by appearing on that show. I admire his success and respect his accomplishments. That is in spite of his participating in that silly program.
Dgad, to be fair I mis-stated.. Not research, but from what I have read, and seen mostly from people commenting at shows is the Audio research equipment used with wilson is a pretty common combo. Sorry
Nutella, maybe you didnt read the topic of the post, cost vs value, with a focus on profit margin. the topic of the utah business show delt completely with that. i am sorry you hate wilson and i am sorry you felt it was a waste of your time, i guess you shouldnt have watched the whole thing. but if you didnt watch the whole thing, then maybe it didnt waste your time and you were just looking for something negative to say. it wasnt a documentary, it was a local business show that could have featured farm equipment... the point is it focused on dave wilson and his company. regardless of what you think of the price of the speakers, you must respect him and get a feeling that he is truly doing this for the love of sound. if you dont, you are blinded by your own closed mind.
Tell me about your research. I just don't get what you are saying. I wonder what speaker VTL use to voice their products. You should give them a call. Maxx IIs. What cable manufacturer uses Wilson (probably one of many), Transparent. Has A Wilson / VTL demo won best sound at any show? Wilson sounds great with many different systems. Audio Research has a different house sound to VTL. Both are great products. Now people are using Lamm w. Wilsons including some Wilson employees. Wilson speakers show everything upstream and offer the user the ability to get different types of sound depending on the kind of equipment that is being used.
The new Watt/Puppy 8, look very interesting.. I have seen they supposedly have corrected a lot with this speaker, whatever that means.
However, in my experience I heard a Pair of some Grand slamms in 2000' so not sure what version they were up to at that point. They were in a room I would say was about 20 ft X 25 ft, decent room treatments on display. I don't remember the front end equipment, however I do remember the the VTL Tube mono blocks hooked to them, which were 30,000 a pair or something, and I think the speakers were over 60,000.
The sound? Gotta be honest I walked behind the speaker to see if something was wired wrong(out of phase) or off all together. Well they were hooked up just fine, sound was very seperated, very boring. These were trade in's used I believe.
What was funny is then I went into the new area, and they had avantgarde Duo's hooked up to a 40 watt intergrated amp that cost about 700.00, the sound blew the doors off the wilsons? We mentioned this to the sale's guy, his response was " Yeah, we gotta get those out of here soon or we won't get rid of those wilsons on trade. "
So back to the original post from my limited experience, would I pay for the Value of the wilson at that point, probably not. But some will, and what would it come to if we did not have Wilson speakers in some of the Mansions around the world? But maybe the mistake was hooking VTL up to them, from my research, Audio Research gear is suppose to be the best with wilson.
Daves' problem is not price gouging per se. His problem is there are companies who can do it in a smaller box for less. He thumbed his nose at audiophiles not really caring about us. Now of course the chickens have come home to roost. The market is shrinking and the competiton is growing. My local dealer sold Wilson's strickly on reputation. He threw his best products at Wilson. Yet the room was always dark. No one was listening. I resent any notion that we have to support the industry. Dave is running a business. It's his job to bring to market a product that people want and can afford. If he can't do that he will go out of business. What is amazing to me is how certain reviewer's seem to bend over backwards to promote Wilson. The real problem for Dave is most of us can put together a world class system for $60k.
Proof of YMMV: my Audience cables sound dynamic, uncompressed and completely wonderful throughout the spectrum.
I'll estimate that the Wilson demo I heard recently had about $200k worth of top everything (in a good room)... and I didn't feel my home system was really far behind. In fact, I wasn't envious.
Re: Holeneck. What a pile of bullshit. Regardless of who is the subject of this so called doccumentary (it could be any of two dozen or more manufacturers) but all we have here is simply a bunch of clueless cheerleaders. Dave Wilson is in my opinon an innovator in high end (remember the original Watt?) and many love his products and many don't care for his products. But this is a very sad display. It is to me a whoring out of one's self in the name of sales and is truly pathetic. Sure do what you can to sell your product but this is ridiculous. Again this is no commentary on the sound of Wilson Speakers. But this was really a waste of my time.
Woodburger, I have tried the Audience Au 24 cables.They sound very dull and compressed on my systems.Actually I could not believe how contrived sounding these are.Obviously some people with very bright shouty systems or rooms must find they work. Solid core copper lighting cable sounds much better to me.This costs about $1 per metre.It is smooth like the Audience but much more open,detailed and most of all neutral. Mick Maloney of Supratek uses this too despite being given all sorts of cables to try.[including this Audience] You are not the first or last person to be a victim of the Great Speaker Cable con[myself included]
WP don't weigh 700 Lbs. Maybe shipping weight is that high but not the speakers.
Just to point out, the most important reason for the WP8 upgrade was that the EU's laws about lead meant the WP could no longer be sold starting next year since the speaker is damped w. lead. I would assume the lead helps w. magnetic shielding. My guess is new speakers are not shielded.
Also it appears that Wilson Upgrades their speakers more or less every 4 years. Correct me if I am wrong.
I also heard the Wilson demo at the HE 2006 show yesterday and it was fantastic - I give Dave Wilson a lot of credit for all he has acheived. Sure, he has succesfully turned his line into a "status symbol" with a great reputation for quality and service and also - great sound. Very well done demo by some guy who obviously knows a lot about music. They gave one of the best demos becasue they took control of the process, and used the demo to put their best points forward rather than letting people just wander around like most rooms.
There are plenty of mercedes type speakers - but mercedes are a dime a dozen here in LA - you want to turn heads, you bettter be driving a Spyker or MacLaren. Why not have an ultra luxury/ultra expensive line in speakers. I can't afford one - but I'm happy to cough up 20 bucks for the opportunity hear some of these greats.
I'd like to know why the WattPuppys weigh in at 700 pounds - my Josephs have 25 pounds of sand in the base and they are only 85 pounds total. Is mass loading all that important to the Wilson sound? Maybe I should stick lead shot instead of sand in my wilsons...
BTW - the most insane value at the show was Dr. Hsu's new bookshelf horn speaker for $250/pair!!! My other two favorites at the show were Joseph Audio ($3200) and MLB Radialstrahler ($46,000). More on that to come.
I switched TO Audience Au 24 cabling. For fear of being sued, I won't say what I had, and replaced. But the total cost of the old cables was over $10k. I can't believe I ever did that!
Dgad, They used all Audio Research components. They used a Reference 3 preamp, and from looking at the Audio Research site, the amps appear to have been the Reference 210 monoblocks. Sorry, I didn't find out what the other component models were. The cables were all Transparent. Perhaps someone has more details on the ancillary gear, or I'm sure you could write Wilson directly.
. "I've used that spin on my wife for many an upgrade. How's this? I'm looking at $20k speakers. Really considering them. Decide, however, on $10k speakers, and go to my wife all excited that I just saved her $10k, so my new speakers won't cost anything...you married guys know the deal...It's an Abbott and Costello routine..."
Brilliant! After a few more upgrades and all the savings, you should be able to retire and get that vacation home in Tahoe.
What equipment, source components & cabling did they use for the Demo. I am very curious.
Woodburger,
What are you using for your system cables?
I agree it is all system synergy & setup is critical. All I need to do is change one thing to make my system sound terrible. Every system is as strong as the room & the weekest link.
I have WP7s. I heard a demo of Alexandrias presented by Dave Wilson just recently. He struck me as a gentleman, far from a hypster. If he was working us, he's a master. You could see the pride he had when talking about how he felt for his workers. He did not disparage the competition, even when asked about them.
I used to haunt all the audio sites, but lately have become so satisfied with my system that while I still visit it's without the 'striving for better' (or wishing for better) that I once had. FWIW: I find Audiogon less shrill than Audio Asylum these days.
In my new Rives designed room, my WP7s sounded wrong to me at first. Only after experimentation and some changes did I find the level of great sound I hoped to achieve. My point is that I wonder how many really have heard any speakers as good as they can be? It takes synergism.
As for cost/price, a manufacturer confided in me that a well known cable brand builds them for $75 and sells for multi-thousands. (He was not a competitor.) He said he got that from the owner of the company who laughed about it.
I can't swear that's true, but after selling their cables which I had used for years, I found a much better match for my circumstances.
To sum it up: it's all about synergism. And Wilson, love him or hate him, follows his vision of what a speaker should be and do. It's a free country (mostly.)
I've used that spin on my wife for many an upgrade. How's this? I'm looking at $20k speakers. Really considering them. Decide, however, on $10k speakers, and go to my wife all excited that I just saved her $10k, so my new speakers won't cost anything...you married guys know the deal...It's an Abbott and Costello routine...
Just returned from HE2006 in LA. After hearing a 15-minute demonstration of the new Watt Puppy 8's by Dave Wilson himself, my wife said, "Twenty-eight thousand dollars, is that all they are?" This was, by far, the best I've ever heard Wilson speakers sound. The speakers disappeared, the music evenly pressurized the large room, and the tone, texture, and dynamic swell was closer to live reproduction than I've previously heard from the Sophia's, the 6's or the 7's. In my opinion, the 8's are worth every penny, and I'm betting that the market will agree.
profit margin on a 50,000 dollar speaker should be less than the profit margin on a 1000 dollar speaker. its just the way business is, audio and otherwise. people think that wilson audio speakers are over-priced and over-hyped, so? the care and pride they put into building a speaker is top notch. if there are issues with build quality, they handle them. i havent read where someone has bought a wilson speaker and been left holding the bag if the item was damaged. If there is such an issue, perhaps it is due to the poor service of the audio store and not wilson themselves. Maybe that is why wilson is dropping dealers. these dealers are not selling enough to warrant their wilson dealership. it is easy to take shots at the guy sitting up top.
i have heard every wilson speaker from the cub to a apir of x-2's. the experience i have had was awesome, but i didnt buy them because I cant afford them. so when i read all this negative comments it makes me feel one of two things about the author.
1. they cant afford them, so they consider them overpriced 2. they dont know what they are talking about and just like to hear themselves ramble on.
either way, if you dont like wilson audio thats fine, but i guarentee you respect their products and respect the care and effort devoted to every single speaker. thats what the ads are about, letting you know that you are getting a product that is tweaked and produced under the strictest standards. Thats what you are paying for and thats what they deliver.
Thanks for understanding Samuel. I've been around audio for 30 yrs and I feel my ears have a pretty good judgement. I'm known for telling it like it is. I'm straight up, if I step on toes of famous brands, sorry, its the way I am. I suspect we will have more truth and less hype as the yrs go by. As it is this hobby is still in the hype stage. Paul
When did this turn into whether wilsons are the best? Got nothing to do with WHAT DO YOU GET FOR YOUR MONEY? PERFORMANCE Vs. PRICE Ratio as the thread originally started..
I agree profit margin has nothing to with sound or PRICE Vs. Value, who cares if wilson makes 5000.00 a pair Or 50,000 a pair in the end, it has to do with ARE you getting a Performance Relevant to the price, Fine you love wilsons, Okay I'll play and say so do I! But are they truely worthy of the cost, Nothing is it just depends on how much more a certain company can Gouge out at this point, discussion if they are Good Scan speak multi driver designs or not is irrelevant to the question, they are good, but they are not 4 times better than a comparable designed speaker at 1/3 the cost everytime, people buy Wilson kinda like ferrari, they have the money, and it does what they feel it needs to do, but yes there is a 80,000 Mercedes that can be just as enjoyable and effective for the main 9 out of 10 points that the ferrari hits at 200,000.. You decide if status, Fancy finish with spacelike material suits you in the end. Sound is not even a factor at this point, cause of course you can do better than a 130,000 dollar speaker for far less money.
Nice call. I like the Dali and Devore speakers too, based on what I've heard at shows.
Keep in mind, that the head units of the Maxx2 and X2's need to be precisely calibrated to listener distance and height, so it's possible-in any "dealer showroom" demo, that the performance might not gel based on set up.
That said, speaker preference is more of a personal choice than _any_ other product in this hobby, and everyone has a different opinion. Many think they have it "figured out" or think they can intelligently dump on products they don't own and have scant experience with. That's a lot of what I see in this thread, outside the last couple posts.
The people that have it "figured out" are those that follow their own path, while understanding that there is no "best" or "greatest value", and don't judge companies or hobbyists because "they know better". Largely, the "I'm smarter than you" crowd are the people with the least experience and the greatest need to pad their ego.
The rest of us are just hobbyists with an open mind--and too often--an open wallet. :)
Nice history and economics lesson. Outside of the agenda, it's a nice try.
Please tell me of all the speakers you've _personally_ auditioned that are better for less money--as if there could ever be such a thing related to ones _preferences_. And of course you've had a current in home sampling of which Wilson products, when, which models?
The "best"? There's no such thing, and I never stated that. I merely pointed out a market arbiter of value, one of the only "valid" ones available to us, er, snobs/dupes as you accuse. Which is it? If I'm a dupe, that'd make it hard for me to be a snob. :) Cadillac? You really are on a flight of fancy, eh?
You have a point regarding product changes, there have been a number of them the past few years. However, I don't think the recent changes are for Market reasons, rather, from my experience, Wilson speakers have improved dramatically since the Watt 6, which I never would have purchased because of it's IMO forward, analytical character. Nor did I like the original MAXX or Grand Slamm, finding them overly dry in the uper freq's and, well, stiff sounding-- unlike my previous fave, the Audio Physic Calderas.
I believe the Wilson speakers have evolved a great deal, starting with the Sophia, into a very coherent, time accurate line that has found a balance--rich mids, more linear treble, better pitch differentiation (earleir models (6) (5.1)had mid-bass and mid-treble issues).
Are the newer models perfect? Of course not, I can pick nits, as I can after long term audition or ownership of any speaker. Are there "better" speakers for less? Who do you wish to appoint as the arbiter of quality and value? You? I demur to your stated expertise..
I drive a Toyota Minivan not a caddy, have two little ones and a pretty serious mortgage. I stretched to buy the MAXX2's, stretched to build a room for them (thanks Richard) and get the rest of my gear, Atmashere MA2 amps, Audio Aero Prestige CD, racks, room treatments etc.
I've a right to my choices and aknowledge they might not be for everyone. I'm not the one on these boards shouting "scam" and calling people "dupes".
There are lot's of great, maybe even better sounding systems that can be had for less $ than mine. But I'm really happy with my choices, and it bothers me to see contextless posts, slamming what I think are decent products with little to no context or responsibility.
Your post sums up my previous points regarding the net, and the fact that anyone is free to target and defame, without risk.
It's ok to disagree, it's ok to have an opinion that is contrary. Open dialogue is fine. Your sarcastic comments exist outside that realm.
You're the one with the "Cadillac" metaphorically. Enjoy it.
Samuel I'm not attacking Wilson, I'm just stating my opinion that their speakers are some of the very worse I've heard in the past 10 yrs. Worse than Legacy, if you can believe that. That is an opinion, not an unfair attack. I've heard them. Paul
I recently heard Wilson Alexandrias, Dali Helicons, and DeVore Gibbon Super 8's. All were set up at dealers with electronics befitting their pedigree. I liked the DeVores best, then the Dalis. I expected amazing things from the Wilsons, a reorientation of my "north" arrow. Rather, I heard a collection of drivers, poorly integrated and obviously originating from different points in space. The cymbals sounded like they were 5 feet above my head.
These are the only Wilsons I've heard and who knows, maybe the less expensive models sound better. But, based on sound quality alone I wouldn't have chosen them over the other $130k less expensive "competition" I heard that day.
FWIW, I was there with a buddy and his thoughts echoed mine.
The market speaks with precision when evaluating essential commodities unless it is deliberately altered by successful manipulation. Current fuel prices might be an example. In the case of non-essentials, pricing is driven to a great extent by perception which, in turn, is driven by advertising. Reviews are advertising. Wilson was innovative in design and extremely well connected to the primary arbiter of value at the time, when he started making the Wilson Audio Tiny Tot nearly 30 years ago. Harry Pearson helped his friend achieve primacy in the premium speaker realm alongside his other buddy Arnie Nudell and both guys made a ton of money off of the illusion that their products provided something unavailable elsewhere. Arnie wasn't as adept as Dave at keeping his balls in the air so Wilsom emerged as the ne plus ultra for many of you Chivas Regal drinkers. I agree with Warren that Wilson is entitled to every nickel he can scam from you guys. Why not? This is how our free enterprise system is supposed to work. You pay your money and you buy "the best" and you don't need anybody who can't afford them to tell you otherwise. Dave just keeps changing the product a little here, a little there and keeps changing the Model designation and keeps raising the price and you keep buying them and all is well. Why should anyone object? Now and then some pipsqueeck like me comes along and suggests that you are being duped and that there are better products for less money. Stupid of me. I'm so sorry. Listen, can I borrow your Cadillac? It's the best, right?
The greatest arbtiter of "value", both intrinsic and percieved, is the resale value of used products being sold on e-bay and AudioGon.
Based on the numbers I see, Wilson is without peer in terms of resale value. Smoke and mirrors? Crunch the numbers.
The selection of any speaker is an intentionally personal pursuit. Internet opinion that seeks to attack a company or anyones _choice_ of a loudspeaker system, better be willing to state specifics, context and comparison instead of short-hand conjecture and second or third hand opinion.
I don't understand, yet, what all the hoopla is about regarding profit margin, R&D, advertising, outrageous prices, and outrageous justifications. Wilson, JMlabs, Zuaudio, Kharma, whoever: they can charge whatever they want. I don't believe, in a free market,- in calling prices unfair, unjustified, etc. Are the new Wilson 8 Watt Puppys worth, what?--$28k. If they sell them and audiophools are happy? Yes indeed. Anything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Manufacturers don't have to make their products accessible to everyone. Don't like it? Too costly? Too much bad PR? Don't buy it. I think we've heard that on this thread before. It's more fun to find the $5k speaker with the $15k sound. That is until we find out that the $5k speaker costs $250 to produce..
I purchased the MAXX2's after carefully considering and auditioning a great many competitive products. I auditioned or owned a great many other top o' the line speakers from Aerial, Audio Physic, Kharma, Talon, ProAc etc. There is no pride of ownership value for me as my room is dedicated (Rives) and I rarely entertain strangers. When I do, I don't show the room lest they think me daft.
Every speaker has their strengths, weaknesses and signature traits, as do Wilson speakers.
Unquestionably, from my _experience_ the Wilson speakers rank at or near the top in terms of the apparent care and attention that has gone into their design, fit, finish, packaging and user adjustable performance. The support from the staff has also been impeccable.
Most importantly however, they perform as well or better than my expectations would allow.
Too many people in these forums state negative impressions and opinion as if they have first hand, direct-in home experience, when the truth is they merely heard something at a show or dealer showroom. I've heard countless speakers and systems that sound like crap at shows, but performed extremely well in my home. Wilson speakers are precise, calibrated instruments, and their set up has to be just right, just like any other top performing speaker of their size (speaking of the MAXX2's/X2's).
Expounding negative opinion on performance should at least be qualified by context, as should opinions regarding value-- which often times is literally impossible to judge accurately without visiting the factory, talking to the staff and going over materials, parts lists.
Opinions are great, and the internet provides terrific forums for all to share theirs. I just wish opinions that get tossed around like rotten tomatoes, casting snide remarks and aspersions were accompanied by, oh, just a little persoanl context and responsibility to facts rather than conjecture.
Sure ol Wilson could care less about the few members here at Audiogon, what we say here will not affect their sales even at 1%. but its our OPEN freespeech forum and we can express our opinions in a friendly manner. And offer advice to others here. I can assure you I'm not at all interested in how much money Wilson makes. Good for him, sad for those who buy. As long as he does not get any of mine. Nice Day Paul
I am looking forward to hearing the new WP8 in LA this weekend.
With their current ad campaign, I think Wilson is trying to build a brand with similar attributes as those enjoyed by McIntosh in its heyday: quality, engineering excellence, overall excellence, the brand to own. Think of it as the Lexus or MBZ of loudspeakers. It's a good strategy for them, I think. They are trying to build a sustainable, long-term business, as they should. At this stage, they are less interested in the tweaky dickheads that hang out on Audiogon, and with good reason.
As to the profit margin statement, they probably do have a pretty good feel for what their competitors' margins are: they know component costs, they have intel about dealer margins, they know. Whether or not their margins are lower is hard to say, but perhaps they truly are.
Macro, is it a sign of their guilty conscience to feel justified with their prices, or yet another another tactic to try to convince us that their speakers are priced right and so worthy of our hard earned $'s. I couldn't care at what price they sold at, the sound offered was nothing I'm interested in.
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