Why Don't More People Love Audio?

The average American worker makes less today than 20 years ago.
With globalization ,aka semi-slave wages in 3rd world, it will only get worse.There is no course but to fleece the well-off to rich consumer.

I doubt if cheaper high end would make much difference. Make something that you can sell for $50,000 and sell ten of and live off that.

Let me get this straight. We don't really know what High End Audio is exactly, it depends on who you talk to. And we don't really have any idea how many people are on High End Audio. Well, we know it might be about 100 or it might be more, a whole lot more. And now were worried about the prices to get into this High End Audio having to come down so every Tom Dik and Harry can get in? I'm not sure I like the sound of that.

The only solution is to offer better value over time in "high end audio". Then more will come. Will the "high end" vendors profit more or less? Like most things I suppose it all depends.

IT's probably just "high end" audio as defined in these parts that more do not love.

I think many love good music and good sound and find their version of it in more ways than ever tehse days, often on a limited budget.

Many people do love anything "high end" though in general. Especially if it would fit their lifestyle. Its just that most just want enough good sound to fit their needs. And most also want high end cars, houses, clothing, cigars, mates, etc., the list goes on forever more than they do "high end" audio. The numbers don't lie!

Yup me too.

I did have the advantage of employee discounts at the time though to help me stretch my very limited student budget that went into both equipment and buying music regularly.

I started off as a kid with a Magnavox record player with built in amp and fold out speakers. Actually that belonged to my older siblings. I really started out myself with a $10 transistor radio, then a $30 8 track player, then a $200 Sanyo compact system as a gift at about 13.

TOday kids start out pretty well with computers, tablets, mobile phones, etc. compared to a transistor radio or even a Sony Walkman. Plus they can download and acces a lot of music for free. SO they have a big head start at their age than many of us older geeks.

Mapman,

It has alway been expensive and most of us have started off knowing very little. I bought my first system when I was making $99/week and it was a cost me just over $800 or 15% of my yearly salary. Much later I bought the Infinity ServoStatics, two ARC stereo amps, and the SP3 for a combined total of $3000 when I was making $15,000 or 20% of my yearly salary. This time was worse as my nurse wife wasn't working while we had young children.

What is worse now, however, is the low standards that youth now has about music and how needy they are of having constant contact and music. We had no smart phones, internet, music everywhere, even outside elevators (meaning that they don't know what elevator music is). I'm not saying that we had it better, but we did have it different.

Tbg,

I appreciate that.

Everyone has to start someone and fulfill their own needs.

We should encourage people to not be afraid to try out the waters always as best they can, not scaring them away with talk about how hard or expensive it is. Nor by challenging whether or not they know what they are doing are not. We all can learn something along the way with that approach I think.

Mapman, be happy and enjoy. And you certainly are doing your best to fulfill public indifference to audio.

I hope this thread does not become yet another good example of why more people don't love audio.......

Madona sounds really good on my $90 high quality table radio fed from my computer at work. In mono of course. :^}

Tbg, my system comes in arounfd $10K or so in terms of what I actually paid, a lot more at list price. It does it pretty good! I've been to many concerts and symphonies and pay close attention to what I hear. I can think of many other combos that could do it as well. Its a silly question to ask really in that its all a matter of opinion, even when its yours. Although I can say that on paper my setup has the specs to pull it off at least. Plus all my tweaks are cost effective and practical.

Phd, look for a reviewer whose first name is Norm on StereoTimes and email me through the email address there.

I can do John Kerry watching James Taylor for $1.98.

Tbg, I think that Schubert is joking. If he can do Madonna for $100.00 I'm curious what he can for $50.00.

Schubert, Okay what is in this miracle $10,000 system you say you can whip up?

I've been to thousands.

TBG, that is interesting that you still possess the H-Cat, that was an interesting thread in itself. Definitely would love to hear your system in Texas, my sister lives there and have been to Texas one time at Fort Worth many years ago, parents were stationed there.

Your cabling and grounding units, making up half the cost of your system, seems like a sound investment and it may not be that uncommon but I personally cannot make that same claim but do recognize the importance of these investments in sound quality.

Schubert, obviously you have never been to a live concert or heard a jazz trio live. Basically, I know full well that you lie.

I can put together a system that sounds as real as a symphony orchestra in full cry for 10K .
A jazz trio for half that.
Madonna for a hundred bucks.

Phd, given my experience with the top High Fidelity Cables and power cords and with the Tripoint Troy Signature and their Thor SE cables, this has been very expensive for me. But I also remember that long ago the H-Cat preamp and amp gave a very nice holographic image. I still have both in my system in NM. They may be coming back into business, but time will tell.

I should add that I am not saying that the H-Cat was the equal to what I'm getting today, but it did start me thinking that vocalists and musicians were in the room with me. Now, however, outside my listening room with a recording of a piano, sounds convincingly like the real thing.

What is striking is that cables, power cords, grounding units now represent more than half of the cost of my system! I must say that last night was thrilling. I don't know where you live but if you are in or near Texas, or if you ever want to drive up from a Houston airport, come on by an experience this.

TBG, that was very well put. I like the three types of Audiophiles. Question, do you think that stage III as far as great reproduction and realism can be obtained for a lot less money these days because of the improvements in parts etc.?

I think there are multiple types of audiophiles. Certainly when I first got into music reproduction and later into stereo, I was more of a poor guy who loved jazz and much classical music. In undergraduate school in Chicago with WFMT being a local station, I had great classical music. I could go to several jazz clubs when I had any money. I would have to say that I was mainly a music lover. But going to graduate school and remaining poor changed that. I had to gain my own sources for good music, namely records and had to get components that were cheap, I built Heathkits and Dyna units. When money came more ample, I sought better gear.

One day walking past an audio store, I heard wonderous music and went in. There I heard the Infinity ServoStatics driven by ARC tube equipment. I bought no part of my system because of looks and I lived with the Servos for five years. I even sought the ServoStatic 1As and once got close to buying them, but that is not my story now.

Clearly I was on a quest for realism. This got to be very troublesome when I taught on Long Island and earlier at UCLA. All sorts of exotic equipment was around. But I really didn't get ahead in my quest. Music was serving an important role at that time as I worked toward tenure. I was a music lover audiophile. But I sought a full frequency response for playing symphonic reproduction. I also learned to again love tube sound.

Then perhaps four or five years ago, I heard examples of good music where the performance sounded real! I think once you have experienced this, a music lover realizes that he or she can experience great performances. This has become an abiding interest of mine.

So I think there are three types of audiophiles. Stage I is loving music and replacing hearing it live with cheap audio equipment. Stage II is loving music that is well reproduced. And Stage III is great reproduction and realism.

Face it, one, you have to have more of a love for music than most AND you MUST have more than a bit of OC behavior in your personality.
Perfectionist might sound better but same difference.

Biggest difference among audiophiles themselves is some compete with others, some with their own inner scale.
No judgements implied(really).

Mapman you are correct, it is experience/know how.

It's a cottage industry largely because it portrays the image of being expensive and inclusive while the reality is any smart guy who knows what todo can put together a top notch sounding system for not much. Know how is the key ingredient, not money.

Audiophile has a lot of baggage. I prefer music lover. Except some audiophile is likely to dissect what even that means to bits. You just can't win. Better off just listening than talking about it maybe. 😖

Mapman, yes, audiophiles and some people will call them audiofools, I know I been there.

Someone will call them an audiophile? 😶

Raytheprinter if you live and breath audio it can be hard to keep them demons at bay but the common interest is music and I don't any longer get anal about buying or trying audio gear like I used to. I think Audiogon has actually helped me in this arena by giving myself and others the ability to sample many different products and reselling to try something else.

Yes must be careful about some tweaks and ask yourself does the cost justify the means. The fools are the ones that leap before looking.

It's simply a matter of preference and resource allocation.
The same can be said of anything.
Why don't more people love yoga?
Why don't more people love French cuisine?
Why don't more people love hunting?
Everyone can't love everything.

I've talked to number of my friends that love music and it's simply that they have other things that they are more involved. Many see it as a bit obsessive as well. Many have heard really nice systems and can appreciate the hobby but still don't feel the need to be that involved. These are people I go to plenty of concerts with and talk music with. They simply have other interests or varied interests. These days most people don't have the time to have more than one hobby.

When someone checks out sites like audiogon,, they like what they see,,hmmm ,seems like a great hobby! Then they discover the,,, snake oil side of this hobby,and start to wonder about the sanity of the audiophile.As well as ,is this for real or a joke! Some of the stuff sold in the tweak section will have the average person shaking their head in disbelief,,,,or thinking we audiophiles are a bunch of fools.

Tbg - I tweeted to agon a question about nuking my old virtual system last week, as support had no idear. The next day a product manager (not support) wrote me a coherent reply, noting a major site makeover they're doing in a few months. That will fix many problems apparently.

Ergo: maybe tweets are a better means? Worth a shot?

Scott_w, my posting of my appeal for welding connections showing up as my system is an example of Audiogon screw-ups.

Scott_w, after Audiogon wiped out my system the second time, I gave up on showing it.

They might have to put up with other fussy audiophiles?

Rockadanny, too little attention is paid to the ancient saying that the good is the enemy of the best.
IMO, its mortal enemy.

Rockadanny - Sweet rig.

Thanks Scott! I do like 'er. Likewise.

Tbg - your 'system' url leads to a thread on circuit boards. Details my man, they matter. Well, unless you have tenure of course, then nothing matters, right? Good gig if you can get it. Sidebar - I used to teach college statistics. I know the drill. Not my thing long term but good way to meet the ladies, if you make it interesting, which I did...indeed I did. Brought em over to jam to my Klipsch Heresy's, which are still kicking. Those things are indestructible.

Swinfrey - totally agree. Good to have an open mind w/music. I'm currently soaking up 5 newly arrived box sets: Mancini, Nat Cole, Keith Jarrett (Sun Bear concerts), JL Hooker, Howling Wolf. Also have Bill Evans on heavy rotation lately. Never listened to jazz until around 10 years ago, and now it's my fave genre.

Rockadanny - Sweet rig. I know Alex of WyWires, from shows. My rig is all his. Also have Audio Metallurgy ICs I sometimes swap in (but don't tell him that).

EVERYBODY at the superbowl party commented on how much they enjoyed the halftime show with Katy Perry, Lenny Kravitz, and that other woman. "That was terrific!" ... "Oooooo!" ... "Awesome!" ... Brought to us via POS speakers from somewhere inside the TV no less. I just rolled my eyes and staggered into the kitchen for more bean dip, my audiophile heart crushed to bits.

Probably they got tired, trying to find which is better, of the following, and gave up:
1. Tubes or Solid State
2. Digital or Analog
And maybe recently:
PCM or DSD
:-)))

Different strokes for different folks.
No sense in getting offended or attempting to look down on others because they don't want to come to your party.
They are having their own parties and apparently it's working just fine for them.
Live and let live.

In the early '80s I first saw the internet used for the first time. Being a professor soon I had the ability to use it to communicate with colleagues in other colleges. Then I got the ability to use dial up at home. Then one could buy a tiny music storage device with earbuds. Also coming along we computer games and cellphones.

Audio is relaxing, which is the last thing the present culture encourages. Swinfrey and Scott W, you both seem ill-adjusted to contemporary culture. I have been at reproducing music at home since the early 1960s. I know that my culture is now passe and soon will be the case for the baby boomers. I remember when television first came and when I first saw a football gave involving the Chicago Bears versus ? Football used to be less import than basketball and certain baseball.

Scott w, women have always been far less common among audiophiles. Presently I know one and over the years have known of perhaps twenty. I have always asked women audiophiles how they got involved. An audiophile father is often the reason.

I

Related question, surely debated around here: where are the women? Their hearing is better than ours, that's known biology. And this hobby is what, 95% male?

I've been to several audio shows out of state, and it's a depressing sausage fest. Most pax are old, fat, white guys. Wearing pleated pants and $4 bargain bin short sleeves, even whilst peddling big buck equipment...the humanity.

Both those topics, the gender aspect and the utter lack of professional appearance and/or interest in physical health are worth separate threads. At least for the popcorn factor, watching y'all blow a gasket over what I wrote.

Maybe I've stumbled over the connection why there are so few women in this hobby...look around.

I'm an endurance athlete, and spend countless hours with my rig; they're not incompatible. My gut doesn't hang over my belt, nor will it ever (and I'm pushing 50). Get yourself a pair of Fluevogs and work from the ground up.

Thank me now or later, either fine.

I think the answer to this question really lies in the fact that most people are either ignorant or embarrassed to identify with music (like classical or real jazz) that definitely IMO benefits the most from high end components. "Real music" is to a certain degree an acquired taste and takes a little digging and understanding to get full value from. I said full value. A lot of what is considered music today does not benefit that much after a certain price point in a system. And if you think that sounds a little nerdie I was going to Rollling Stones, Jethro Tull, Frank Zappa, Black Sabbath, Jimi Hendrix concerts before many of you were born. Really, most people are not willing to get out of their box and try something new. I couldn't stand classical music until a surgeon I was working with (I am an anesthetist) forced it on us and you know what? A few years later half my music collection is classical music. So, we need to inspire our young folks to be more well rounded in all musical genres. That, I think will inspire them to be more appreciative of instruments that can reproduce the sound as if they were hearing it live. Just my 2 cts.

Cool. Sounds good. Yes, I agree. Hearing is believing.

They need to hear it. My wife came down to my "man cave" and thought she was going to hear this loud stereo. Mind you I just set it up for a test run, much room work needs to be done.
Four hours later she's going to her car to get some more CDs.

That make sense...the only thing I have to add is it's a drive to get closer to the music, and approximate the tonal quality of real instruments, providing the recording allows it! A great system allows you to do that, imo.

FWIW, I think that it is determined by your personal history. If you grew up loving music and listening to it on a decent stereo through good speakers or headphones, then you realize that your experience can be enhanced through better equipment as electronics have evolved. You then allocate some time to seeking the best equipment you can afford because its important to you. An analogy would be that you grew up liking cars, so today you are driving or lusting after that Porsche or Ferrari. Its not rocket science, but if you have a passion for something and the means to afford it, you pursue it.

Last time I walked through Nordstrom (they have convenient parking to access the Mall) they had a sale rack of mens denim jeans with the standard designer-cut holes etc, but with added white house paint dribbles.
Perhaps faux blood smearings would have been more trendy, hence salable.

Why don't more people shop at Nordstrom?