Why does all new pop music sound the same?
I'm not quite ready for a walker, and I do think there are some good new groups....Spoon, the Shins, Cage , all good stuff....I was really talking about the pop music that is constantly being regurgitated.... U2 and Beck, great artists.... you were probably still in diapers when I saw U2 in the early 80s.... |
I agree with @chayro that the horror of the Video and the book it is based upon is not generations gap or compression. As mentioned in the book, teen wants to listen to something different from what her/his older brother/sister is listening to, so there is no need to go poetic about old geezers or noncompoops. It is an intentional Manipulation, or mind-f$&k at the Industrial level, something Robert Fripp (king crimson) been bitching about for the last 20+ years. i want to grab my crutch and hit our young poster here for not getting the simple 20min message (I do not expect anyone under 30 to actually read the book!). Then I want to hug this kid for listening to some real good music produced nowadays. I would love to add more to the list he/she provided (Orb, Flaming Lips, Marjorie Fair, Deepchord, Crippled Black Phoenix/SeDelan, Underworld, TesseracT, Therion, Lycia, Assemblage 23,... the list is long) but why bother? Bruckner under Celibidache or Tchaikovsky under Monteaux, or Mahler under Bernstein: I would also have to mention those before getting out of breath, and then I would look like an "old man". Why bother? |
Actually, this thread is interesting from an academic point of view in that, in my original post, I never said or even implied that one form or era of music was better than another. I merely made the, what I considered to be factual, observation, supported by the video, that modern WKTU-type music sounds very similar because of the reasons stated in the video. This seems to have morphed into an old vs young, living in the past, et al. type of discussion, which it was never meant to be. It doesn't matter really, but it makes you think of how in life, once you go public with something, it twists and distorts itself as it continues. I have a friend who ran for congress a few years ago and asked him why politicians gave such insipid answers to questions and he told me that "You can't say hello to a million people without offending half of them." OTOH, as I have said to other posters on other threads, once you decide to go public with something, you open yourself up to potential criticism. So it's like that. |
@chayro - It’s a pretty good thread for other reasons too including musicology. The ’beat and hook’ formula fits with modern listening habits. We’ve all noted (I think) that music listening is background for other things, seldom an end to itself. So, having a beat (most of the modern pop I heard in the last few years was in the gym) and a hook every 8 seconds (instant gratification, hit the button again and again, filling up on empty calories) makes sense. Musical taste is so subjective~ and it isn’t just age, background or culture. I trade listening notes, record tips, etc. with several people who are constant listeners and it’s like a Venn diagram- there are overlaps of varying degrees for each of us, but the bulk of what we "like" isn’t the same. Does broadcast radio even have much significance any more with the ability to listen from a phone (whether plugged in, or blue-toothed, I guess, to a car, home system or on the go, with a playlist) or so-called Internet radio? (My wife had satellite radio in her car and I found it just as limited as heavy rotation top 20 type programming). I actually dug Pandora for a while, mainly because of the "sound recording performance complement" model (driven by Section 114 of the U.S. Copyright Act). You’d plug in BB King and wind up hearing Skip James or Bukka White, introducing you to a range of similar but different performers and tracks. There were a few occasions back in the day where I’d hear something on the radio, hoping the jock would identify the track so I could go to Tower and buy the record. That part of the model still works in the Internet age-probably even better than before. |
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Actually, great pop, rock and folk are still alive and well in Finland. In Finland the people speak Finnish, the most musical of all languages and the inspiration for Tolkien's elven language used in the Lord Of The Rings. Yes, Finland, one of the last good places left on Earth. The largest country in Europe, yet the least densely populated and located between Sweden and Russia. The only country to have ever kicked serious Russian ass in recent history, the 1939/40 Winter War (Talvisota) and also home to legendary classical composer Jean Sibelius. Today's contemporary music in Finland is very unique, where old Nordic folk and classical melodies are fused with influences from the English speaking music world of the last 50 years. If you listen, you can hear as well what has been called the "Nordic Blues", different from the Chicago or Delta Blues. The Nordic Blues stems from the long, dark, cold winters and history altering events such as the Winter War mentioned previously. Nordic Blues is beautiful, yet can also be melancholy and dark. My discovery of Nordic music occurred 8 years ago after my ears and mind had burned out on the popular music of the English speaking world. Both old and new, for many of the same reasons others have mentioned in this post. In short, my musical mind needed to grow and mature beyond what I'd been listening to for 48 years. The journey has been life changing, from enrolling in formal Finnish language classes to traveling from the State of Maine to Finland and the rest of Scandinavia several times on vacation. During these trips extra effort was placed on attending the great summertime music festivals under the mid-night sun. If your not Finnish you will not likely understand the lyrics of the music. I tell my friends to consider the vocals as another instrument in the mix and to enjoy. And to keep in mind, the lyrical content is very different than that of the English speaking world. Melody is also key and not so much beats. A few samples. First up, Jenni Vartiainen, saw her in 2014 at Puruvesi Pop in Kerimaki, Finland. Missä muruseni on, (Where is my Darling). https://youtu.be/EO0p_U1w89A Suru on kunniavieras, (Sorrow is a guest of honor). https://youtu.be/5lJJeG6rtzs Duran Duran, (Duran Duran). https://youtu.be/Hu1RAi5sdFE Värttinä, from the Karelia province of Finland, along the Russian boarder. East Karelia has been in Russian possession since the end of WWII. I hope to see Värttinä on my next trip to Finland. Värttinä also tours all over Europe. Lasetus, old Finnish, I can't translate. https://youtu.be/TlSPnk7j8DM Suvi Teräsniska, hope to see her live next summer. This girl has the Nordic Blues in spades. Suvi was born and raised above the Arctic Circle in Kolari, Finland. Vaiettu rakkaus, (Silent Love), https://youtu.be/pubqwUkwXiw Pohjantuuli, (North Wind), https://youtu.be/1suVgycSJNc Jos menet pois, (If you leave), with English translation, https://youtu.be/LvbmyHvEObQ J. Karjalainen, very popular in Finland. He would be like the Neil Young of Finland, working mans rock music. I saw J. Karjalainen following the Laura Närhi concert at the 2013 Illosaari Rock Festival in Joensuu, Finland. Mennyt Mies, (Gone Man). https://youtu.be/6ym2F3rbKmM Seija Simola, old school Nordic Blues 1967. Kun aika on, (A Time For Us), https://youtu.be/0M0z1q1ruWE Kun aika on, (A Time For Us) 2013, https://youtu.be/EhjKU8NtgR8 PMMP, a contemporary Finnish version of ABBA. PMMP is a play on both female singers first names, Paula and Mira, Mira and Paula. Good live band as well, saw them at the 2013 Illosaari Rock Festival in Joensuu, Finland. Rakkaallen, (My Sweetheart), https://youtu.be/kb9BILNEiSM Pariterapiaa, (Couples Therapy), https://youtu.be/zD3js8R8krM Merimiehen vaimo, (Seamen's Wife), https://youtu.be/N_XWTjJPjYc Enjoy through all your excellent computer audio systems. |
Current American top 5 pop songs, week of 30Dec17: 1. Ed Sheeran -- Shape of you 2. Bruno Mars -- That's What I Like 3. Zedd and Aleissa Cara -- Stay 4. Kygo and Selena Gomez -- It Ain't Me 5. Aleissa Cara -- Scars to your Beautiful Full disclosure, I really do not care for this type of music. Also, I know the above is a snapshot and not representative of "All modern pop", but this somewhat validates the argument. All "clubish" type compositions. I do not think they all "sound the same" though, but certainly this is the genre that is currently popular, so the songs will be similar. Interestingly, NOT all written by the same two guys though. Also, remember Post grunge? Hair metal? Disco? Bubblegum? Modern country? Boy Bands? Swing? Once these styles became popular and over saturated, I would argue the discussion was exactly the same. My point is, it really doesn't matter how many people write the songs, once it becomes "popular", and all the trappings that the label implies, it becomes restricted in content and formulaic. It's the American way. This isn't a new situation. Pop music has sucked forever. I look back fondly on the early '90s, as a time when there was an explosion in music variety. Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Green Day, etc. Rock had a revolution!!!... ...and then I look back on the charts. Oh nuts. It was filled with Boyz II Men, All 4 One, Brandy, Aaliyah, Monica, En Vogue, TLC... This too shall pass, but the complaining won't. So I guess we should all move to Finland? |
Actually, I was listening to some Ed Sheeran YouTube videos while I was writing out some checks yesterday (yes, I still write a couple of checks each month to companies that don't let you put it on Amex) and he's not bad at all. Nice songs, good production, nice voice. I'm kind of surprised he rose to his current fame because he definitely doesn't look the part of the adolescent girl idol type, but I certainly don't consider myself an expert on that subject. "Shape of You" is a good song too, but I can live without it being played every 10 minutes. Change the station you say? I have a friend who likes it and I don't like to criticize people's listening tastes just because I don't agree with them. |
Why? Because most of what passes for talent today -- used to be considered trash; furthermore, many have so dropped their values and expectations . . . believing that if some publicity stunt or cleaver publicist gets a large number of people to follow such trash, then even those who find such atrocities offensive, will follow them because they don’t wish to be considered odd or out of fashion. Individuality and superlatives have been replaced by a singularity of thought and loss of thinking for oneself. The lyrics stink for the most part . . . and the so-called music all sounds like the same tired formula with slight variations of a beat, banging, foul words, and screeching harpies trying to reach high notes that sound more like sirens or whistles than they do human voices. Take away all the special effects, backup singers, and other noise assaults, the lead singer usually has a very mediocre voice at best, if at all, and after all the electronic modifications and changes. what the audience or listener gets is something that does not even resemble the original voice by which people are being entertained. The synthetically produced slop is not fit for human consumption. Singers and musicians used to pay their dues -- not take pay under false pretenses; therefore, how quickly many “artists” are forgotten within a short time and never heard of again. No wonder so many young people are so tense and have a hard time relating to one another without their cell phones, computers, laptops, and noise blasting out the world around them. The mind doesn’t differentiate between that it is conditioned by -- when that is ALL it has ever been exposed to is a mindless, debilitating barrage of garbage and junk. |
Getting back to the original question... "Why does all new pop music sound the same?" ANS: If you restrict your effort to discover new music to boring pop-schlock on playlist radio and the muzak at K-Mart, it does mostly sound alike. Worse, the bean-counters at the big music publishers and distributors have gotten it all down to a dystopian econometric algorithm of hooks and catch phrases. If you listen a bit to promoted hits, most of them lack an actual discernible melody. All they are is a string of hooks and psychometrically-validated snippets strung together to create the illusion of music. Most devolve down to a sing-song cadence not far dissimilar to what 5 year-olds drone on the play-yard. The more mainstream "popular" an artist is, the more and more indistinguishable is each successive "hit" promoted to mass sound (as distinct from music) outlets. It is no longer "music" per se but "product", much the same that the corporate over-class foists upon the consuming public (visions of sheeple grazing at McDarnold's intrude at this point). At another extreme of clone-ish music is most of what is electronically mass-produced for the dance club and rave scene, so dominated by what sounds like a single universal drum machine track. But even here, there are pearls to be discovered. Fortunately, there is still a surprisingly vast world of new music these past couple decades that has given birth to dozens of new concepts and genres. "Pop" does not even begin to encompass the amazing range and variety of music available to the audiophile of today. I offer the following as a tiny hit of "pop" tunes (broadly speaking) as pudding proof. All are easily find-able on the Net... in no order of preference ... • Music is My Drug by Techno Squirrels • Calgary by Bon Iver • Devastator by Catfish Haven • Jerk It by Thunderheist • Breathe by Télépopmusik • Sonne by Rammstein (Russian-language version recommended) • Each Time You Fall In Love by Cigarettes After Sex • Rise by Samantha James (Sade meets Astrud Gilberto meets Basia with perfect diction) • Look Like That by Sneaks • I Got It by Marian Hill (Rolling Stone Sperry Session on YouTube) • Schnitz! by Dorfmeister vs. Madrid De Los Austrias (LoungeMasters Music Video) • Arabian by gusgus (KEXP Lively Session) • John Lee Huber (Radio Edit) by TOSCA • Beautiful Things (DJ Tiesto Mix) by Andain feat. DJ Tiesto • Hey Now by London Grammar (album vers. & KEXP live session on YouTube) • Tricky Tricky (Salem's remix) by Röyksopp • That's Not My Name by The Ting Ting's • Sirens of the Sea by OceanLab (Above & Beyond) • Stof by Eefje de Visser (MV on YouTube) • Crystalfilm (EP version) by Little Dragon • Crave You: Adventure Club Dubstep Remix by Flight Facilities feat. Giselle Pop music sounds alike??? Surely this was a rhetorical question. 'Nuff said. |
@inna yours is a Beautiful illustration of the @chayro point made a day-two ago that you cannot say ANYTHING without being ridiculed! I will bite... for one, Finnish language is the only language Not having any roots in any other Human languages, no explanation to this glitch found so far. Except that maybe somehow the folks there survived the latest Ice Age 12-13 thou years ago and kept talking... Second, (and not that I care): I had a misfortune of traveling all over the globe and somehow I still fondly remember me visiting Karelia (piece of Finland grabbed by Russians), so the snippet about Finland being whatnot or whatthat feels a bit, how to put this, f#$%^-&*... But I have no doubts that all Finns are dreaming about visiting 5th Ave or Beverly Hills or experiencing the world-famous Hwy 405 traffic here... ;-) |
Schubert, Hei terve! (Hello!) Thank you for your kind response to my recent post. I've heard very similar responses from everyone I've spoken to who has visited Finland. Interestingly, Finland is a lot like my home state of Maine, with most visitors stating, "If only they could live in Maine". I've visited Finland three times and am always planning my next visit. Each time we've always included a week in a second Nordic country, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and day trips from Helsinki to Tallinn, Estonia by high speed ferry. A lot can be experienced in a day with 20 hours plus of Summer sun! Extended stays in Finland have included Helsinki, Joensuu, Kuopio, Savonlinna and Kerimäki. In full disclosure, my planning centers around the live concert schedules of my favorite recording artists. No matter the location of the live performance, there are always uncrowded historical sites, museums and restaurants nearby. Nearly as entertaining as the live music, sitting in public spaces or cafes listening to the local women and girls engage in conversation. The spoken Finnish language, combined with the pitch and cadence of the female voice is very musical and pleasing to listen to. That observance, combined with the desire to understand song lyrics and engage in meaningful conversation has led me to enroll in formal Finnish language classes and attend an upcoming 40 hour language "boot camp" in June 2018. If you would be so kind, would you forward to me the names of the Finnish tango artists you spoke of in your reply? If you are interested, I purchase newly released Finnish recordings from, yes, a real brick and mortar music chain in Finland called Record Shop X. I've visited the stores in Helsinki and Kuopio and have engaged in enjoyable and wide ranging conversations with the employees in both. Purchases typically arrive in seven days and I've never had an issue with a transaction, the business accepts PayPal. https://www.recordshopx.com Hyvää illanjatkoa! (Have a nice evening!) Or, depending on your time zone. Hyvää yötä! (Good night!) |
inna, Kiitos (Thank you), I am familiar with the origins of the Finnish language. Additionally, I don't recall reading another post stating that Finnish was the oldest European language. The most musical sounding yes, I recall writing that in my post. That statement of course is subjective, like individual taste in music. For that oversight I stand corrected. I am hoping you can now answer my question. Are there any contemporary musical recording artists wring and recording lyrics using the Euskara, Basque language? If so, could you please provide a link(s) to where I can listen to the music? Hyvää illanjatkoa! (Have a nice evening!) Or, depending on your time zone. Hyvää yötä! (Good night!) |
inna, Anteeksi (Pardon me), but I have experienced people in the USA asking me what language do they speak in Finland! I suppose in full disclosure, that I could have answered truthfully that Finns speak Swedish in Finland. After all, a smart individual like yourself should know that Finland is officially bi-lingual and that I was attempting to speak to a wide audience in my post. Nähdään! (See you!) |
iron57 Moi (Hi) Shhhh.....We don't want everyone relocating to Maine or Finland. Doing so would spoil some of the last "good places" on the planet. Although, as is often the case, when the non-acclimated relocate from typically warmer, more congested regions to Maine or Finland they usually leave after their first winter season. Hyvää yötä! (Good night!) |
All pop music does not sound the same. I have been collecting music for decades across a wide spectrum of styles and types-- including a lot of pop. The sound quality ranges from the normal over-compressed to beautiful and dynamic. I agree with other posters that too much of today’s music is over compressed with too-limited dynamics. Unless you happen to be listening on your smartphone with a pair of craptastic earbuds (i.e. most young people today)-- which is why I think compression is overused-- even on music that the labels/artists surely know will NEVER EVER be played on commercial radio-- they know will be listened to as above. I also agree that it has been reduced to a commodity by the business. Yeah, I’m talking to you Spotify! It can be hard to find great music today despite the Internet-- because most systems "help" you find new music by trying to match your pre-existing tastes. That's a soul-sucking strategy that keeps most people safely bored within their comfort zones. Like always, the better way requires more time. VISIT record stores and talk to actual humans while in them. READ music mags like Pitchfork, Consequence of Sound, The Quietus, etc. Go to live shows at smaller venues. LISTEN to smaller Internet or college radio stations. TAKE RISKS by listening to genres you might otherwise automatically avoid-- there’s good stuff in nearly every category. And this is the big one-- DO NOT LIVE IN THE PAST, thinking that all the good music was made years or decades ago. Stay like a kid and be open to being blown away by new sounds and styles always coming out. And this is a hard one for me-- DON’T get too hung up on the sound quality and start hyper-judging every little detail-- be a little tolerant. There is literally great music being released every year. And finally-- if you can swing it-- listen to vinyl over digital. I have an excellent system that does both digital and vinyl really well-- I still choose vinyl for the best overall sound. It’s no hassle once you get in the groove and it puts you in a more visceral contact with the artists and the sounds. |
And there you go Kennovak-head. It seems not to have occurred to YOU that we, the "OLD" ones (yes, I’m closing in on 70) have heard 5 or 6 decades more music than you. So we heard Ella Fitzgerald, Ben Johnson, Muddy Waters, The Platters, Chubby Checker, Etta James, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Supremes, The Temptations, Sam and Dave, James and Bobby Purify, Steppenwolf, (I doubt you could even pronounce all these names correctly), James Taylor, Joni Mitchell, Elton John, Michael Jackson, Earth wind and Fire, Sylvia, The O’Jays, The Spinners, The Clash, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Madonna, Whitney Houston, Michael Hedges, Andreas Vollenweider, Nirvana, Pink, Punk, Can, Mary J Blige, Jay-Z, Fifty Cents, Dr. Dre, Bruno Mars, Ed Sheerhan, Camila Cabello, Post Malone, Halsey, Amy Winehouse, Natalie Cole, Mariah Gasping (sorry, Carey), 21 Savage, Kodak Black...and so on. And you’ve heard...what? 10-20 years worth of artists. I’ve been listening since 1953 and never stopped. Please, fool. The music sounds the same, because, as Mr. Mangini puts it, the technology is stupidly used. Compressed, squeezed and squinched down, so no voice sounds like a human voice. The instruments are usually drum machine, guitar keyboard. WE (the 'old folk'[like its an insult to have lived long]) listened to ALL THOSE, PLUS piano, glockenspiel, triangles, violins, harpsichords, harps, string bass, standup bass, double bass, cellos, balalaika, sitar,. And we know what instruments sound like. Live. In person. 20 feet away. Without microphones and boombox gigantic, distorting speakers (your average concert, which has sucky sound). Your comments are stupid. You look at Life Experience and musical acuity as merely "age" and you look at 'Age' with disdain. Perhaps your intent is to exit the stage of Life prematurely, since you don’t seem to like the idea of 'old(er)' (and you’re getting there every second, even the ones you spend reading this). You want to check out early, go ahead, that's your prerogative. What you don’t realize is that this smashed-together stuff you think of as music is half-baked, UN-musical and that’s MAINLY because of the technology (and the use of - literally - phoned in vocals). People no longer play together at the same time in the same room. You wouldn’t know a jam if it slammed you upside the head, little brother. Clearly you ain’t Black. You ain’t smart, either. You just young. So, just hope you’re around in 30 years listening to music. Maybe by then you’ll be smart enough to hear the difference in the sonics. Which is what this thread is about, clunk. |
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Look here for a good start to find new music that is not assembly line pop https://www.allmusic.com/year-in-review/2017 |
