Why do people that are Into rap and hip-hop even want a high-end audio system

Too many old, bored, banal, well-fed, monied white guys with nothing better to do than starting threads about rap/hip hop, etc. Racial over/undertones? Absolutely.

Shame on me for even commenting- but you’ll kindly forgive me, because, in my naivete, I believe that Audiogon deserves better.

So, let me get this right? I'm supposed to call somebody. Give them an insane amount of money for a speaker. Then I get to listen to him disapprove of my music and get permission to listen to it. Then I get to watch my speaker go down in value the minute I leave the store and the rappers are the dumb guys. Really? So, I have to beg a guy for forgiveness after paying an insane amount of money because I occasionally listen to rap. Look Vandersteen makes a great speaker but this is thread is a laughingstock. I'm sorry that some guys only feel adequate because of their speakers and how refined their music is.  Man I feel sorry for y'all.  The stuff the rappers say makes more sense than these threads. Lol.  This is comedy.  Man do you think that anyone cares about somebody's opinion outside of a couple hundred people at best. Why would anyone on an audio Internet thread care about guys music opinions he will never meet and if he did he probably wouldn't care for their company.  I'm pretty sure I can find a good speaker company that is willing to take an insane amount of cash of my hands with zero restrictions.  Lol.  Man keep doing your high school book club secret handshakes and have fun. Good job fellas. Really smart. I guess all the rap has affected my intelligence because I'm clearly wrong here.  Lol.  This is a nerd fest.lol 

I've had revel, sonus faber, Vienna acoustics, b&w. I had a chance to purchase Vandersteen, Magico and Dali epicon if I wanted them. I've had long term demos with veloce and allnic Man my audio listening buddy had high end German Voxtiv. My Texas dealer had soulutions with raidho d-5 in a separate home listening cottage before he passed away.  He had a speaker bucket list before he died and he went through many. My other buddy has yg acoustics with dartzeel  None of this stuff impresses me to a point to where I would call anybody and care if they would let me put rap on their speakers.  I've had access to a lot of gear. Nothing has impressed me like the raidho/soulutions system on the high end. I enjoy my kr audio/gato fm6/ear acute/ resonessence mirus dac combo a lot. The last 7 years I've been on a audio odesssey few ever go on. So the mountain has been climbed for me. If I like it I do.  If I don't I tell folks.  Enjoy yours system. 

I almost bought one of his speakers here in Texas at Audio Concepts it was actually an option because it's non fatiguing and a great soundstage. Look he has his speakers.  That's great for him. When I listen for high end I listen to be bop jazz non-vocal. I'm pretty sure he speaker does a great job doing it all. I'm not buying another speaker.  I'm happy with what I have. It's not one that 100 other guys have and it does what I like well the most my jazz. 

Yup.  It's funny.  There you go.  You should be happy now.  You can feel better about how refined you are now.  You know no wires save yourself some money.  Lol.  2 chainz and Mbl. Great video.  Funny.  Y'all will have a ball with that. Taters I know you were bobbing your head when they put that 2 chainz song on. Lol.  But you won't ever admit it.  Boom! 

I just saw it. When 2 Chainz put on his rap music the guy from M.B.L. Had a disgusted look on his face. 2 Chainz wanted to know if it was wireless and he liked the fact that the amp was so heavy no one could steal it. 

The people at Mbl made a video with the rapper 2 chainz.  YouTube it.  Lol.  Boom.   Lol.  

Give Richard a call tomorrow and ask him how rap and hip hop would sound on his flagship 7 speakers? I would love to hear his answer.

Look, this the funny part, if Vandersteen or any other manufacturer knew I had the money to buy their best speaker they would be busting a rhyme and would rap till the whole room was breakdancing. This is a business are you kidding me? They should if it makes the sale. Let's be for real!!! 

I bet Mr. Vandersteen can bust a mean rhyme. 

(Apologies for butchering the lingo, but the visual in my head was so funny. :-).

I don't need Richard Vinklesteen's appreciation to play any damn thing I want on my system.

Rap music on Vandersteen 7's. I am sure Richard Vandersteen would really appreciate that.

For Calvinj,  A little hip hop, a little refined, and yes it is awsome on a great system!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq3S5-h2rA8

Nope there is no moderation. It is what it is.  Started a whole thread directed at me. Lol. Just because I'm hip hop and refined.  Lol. 

Are there even moderators at this place? Are these ridiculous taters threads the type of content they want on the top of the forum every day? I’d like to see taters pinned down Clockwork Orange style with The Geto Boys catalog played on 10 on a loop.

It is not snobbish to deem one thing better than another.
A  Michelin 4 star restaurant is  better than McDonald's .

What might be considered an open mind at 18,
 may well be an empty one at 68 .

Right back atcha, brother.  BTW, I got to know a lot of classical musicians (students and professors) for many years at a large music school and they were mostly very real and very warm people.  Being a hick from the sticks I sometimes felt intimidated but that was my own doing entirely--no one ever really gave me reason to feel any less than anyone else there.  I'd go back there in a heartbeat if the opportunity arose.

Not saying it in that way. I try to make it a point to be snobbish. I consider that kind of snobbery way beneath my standards.  I shouldn't go back and forward with the high brows in a nutshell.  Lol. Enjoy your music and this thread.  Happy listening.  

Pete Seeger once said "it's very important to learn to talk to people you disagree with."   I think there's something to that.  That's what we  do here, right?

We're all equals, here and elsewhere. Be careful if there are people you consider "way beneath" yourself lest you wind up being the snob.

I just had one last comment. The assumption that a rap fan couldn't appreciate a high end system is extremely stereotypical and usually comes from the type of folks that I would consider way beneath me. The kind of folks that I don't even bother to engage in conversation with. It's audiophile snooty at its worst. It's what music is not about. The sad part about it all is that we would never hear each other's system or listen in the same room for various reasons I will not discuss on this thread. So to everyone, enjoy your music. People don't matter who you wouldn't care to have around you or your audio system as long as you enjoy what comes out your speakers. That is all that matters.  

I'd put power/money at the top.  The whole slave trade flourished as the thing that made the south viable economically.  Without it the region faltered, to say the least.  Slavery was a means to an end, and that end was the prize.  Slavery is long gone here but business still finds ways to ensure the rich keep getting richer and the poor stay down.

Racism doesn't explain everything in American Society but its always the first place to look.

@tostadosunidos you are so right.  I knew in the beginning that this conversation would go the way it has and I feel that all of this has taken away from the music. Therefore, I'm not going to continue in this path with this thread.  Great observation. Don't talk. Just listen.  

Jond, by that term I meant accusing with no real basis, jumping to conclusions--sorry if I was imprecise with the words on that.  I don't know Taters and so I don't know if he's a racist or not--I will certainly give him the benefit of the doubt.  We're on a hi-fi appreciation site talking about music and I don't read racism into anything I read from his remarks (and I've probably read all the posts on all the threads you mention.  Obviously he and Calvinj are passionate about their respective feelings about the music and I like that.  Let's keep the discussion to the music and not get off on tangents or run into areas where the referees have to come in and decide if "defamatory remarks" have been made.  This place is usually civil and that's a breath of fresh air (check out ESPN or Cleveland Plain Dealer sports discussions if you want to see how bad it can get).

@tostadosunidos I wasn't "quick to accuse" nor did I necessarily accuse at all I just felt something should be said after Taters harping on rap/hip-hop over 3 different threads here. Though at this point I think it's pretty apparent that Taters is a classic internet troll and probably best ignored at this point.

Everyone knows racism was rampant in 20th-century American culture and sadly, exists still today.  I saw and heard plenty growing up in the south of the 50's and 60's.  But it's possible to be hypersensitive about it.  Every single single comment about anything tied to a minority culture is not necessarily racist.  Every political opposition to our president is not necessarily race-related.  People can like or dislike something for itself.  Don't be so quick to accuse people you don't know of bias when the evidence is not there.  You might be doing something worse than the thing you're wrongly accusing the other guy of doing.

"Whether it was minstrel shows, blues, jazz or R&B it was generically referred to as "race music" which was only taken seriously after it was appropriated and crossed-over by white performers."

Case in point, Paul WHITEman and his orchestra gave a mainstream white legitimacy to early jazz or the early Louis Armstrong features where he was dressed in jungle garb to showcase his artistry? Racism towards music and culture may not be as blatant as is was in those times but is certainly insidious throughout our society whether we care to acknowledge it or not. Not to point the finger at anyone participating on this thread, not the point. I don’t generally care for rap either but consider it an outgrowth of and part of the American musical experience. Excellent points and great post Onhwy61.

Russbutton,

That is what I have been saying since the start of the conversation. I don't know why everyone gets in a fit over this. All this talk about racism has nothing to do with this. It's just a matter of common sense. Thanks for understanding what I am trying to say and I appreciate you're Input.

He is not asking a question? He is stating his opinion from the jump. Everybody answering this knows that and they know what he means and his motives behind it. Ah duh.  Lol.

@ml8764ag Falling in to what traps.  He knows what he is doing.  We all know what his "language" means.  If you think folks are not smart enough to see what he is doing then you are slow. Music is music I listen to it all. I respect it all.  I guess I will get put on punishment because I fell for the trap.  Lol.  It's only music!

This (stupid) question reveals thinly veiled race/culture issues on the OP's part. Music is music for crying out loud. I have some hip hop and rap selections in my collection that are every bit as intricately engineered as any Jazz or classical recording. The more important question is why do so many people believe this is a valid question?

I live in the city of Alameda, which is an island in San Francisco Bay, right next to Oakland.  A while ago, when I pulled off the freeway in Oakland on my way home, I saw a truck in front of me for an auto stereo installer with a sign that read:

"If it's too loud...
You're too old"

Not to say that hip-hop wouldn't sound good on a hi-end system, but the point of a high-end system is detail, clarity and imaging.   It strikes me that the most desired qualities in a system for hip-hop would be the ability to produce high sound levels of deep bass, good dynamics on the high end and mid-range clarity.  I don't think the kinds of natural detail you look for in chamber music are of much importance in high-level hip-hop.

While it's always nice to look at some $35,000+ hi-end loudspeakers, most younger listeners (and I assume that hip-hop listeners are younger) aren't going to have that kind of loot to drop on loudspeakers.  The kind of speaker that many of us would want for listening to jazz, classical, or even bluegrass music, at the $2000 price point, wouldn't be able to put out high sound levels of deep bass, let alone do so for an extended period of time.

But at $2000/pair, it would be easy for a hip-hop fan to acquire some good PA speakers that would keep him/her happy.  Now before y'all audiophiles have a cow, I want to qualify this statement.  I'm all about value for your limited audio dollar.  At the lower end of the price spectrum, I feel that PA speakers will provide a better value for music that calls for high sound levels and not particularly cares much about the natural tonal qualities of acoustic instruments.   Hip-hop and a lot of rock fall into that category.

If you look on Craigslist, you can readily find bands selling PA speakers with 15" bass drivers (there's no replacement for displacement), horn mids and highs, capable of high sound levels for very little wattage.   For a hip-hop fan, I think $1200 on some decent PA speakers will be a much better value than some used mini-monitor better suited to chamber music.

Taters...I underestimated you...people clearly and willingly DO fall for the traps you set!

onhwy61,  excellent post, there is nothing in American history as fundamental as racism with anti-intellectualism a close second .
As Cicero  said, "He who does not understand history remains forever a child "
Americans blame everyone and everything for the decline of our great country except the real cause, the American voters massive ignorance
of history renders them  fools forever .

Yes shame on me for seeing through the code words and other sneak disses.  Shame on me.

You know people like me are not supposed to have high end systems because of the stereotype. They are the non-thugs. Lol.  The so called purists who want to be refined

They are the experts. 

Calvinj,

Who is they?

You're the only ones talking about cultural lineage.  We're talking about music and you attack us as if we were belittling or demeaning the culture.  Shame on you.

Rap came from the people not from a school program. It was destined to happen and dominate the music scene and culture like it is now.  Blues came from, rock came from ,jazz came from, rap came from same cultural lineage. They deny it though. Lol.  

Tostadosunidos, I am not accusing you of racial bias.  I am simply pointing out that the line of argument you take is similar to that taken historically by racially bias people.  Black music was always referred to as simple and primitive.  People called Duke Ellington "jungle music".  Bebop was a bunch of junkies blowing noise.  And let's not forget that young white males and especially females had to be protected from sexual rhythms of Chuck Berry and Little Richard.  There's a real history in this country of bashing black music by people intent upon keeping blacks in their place.  Are you one of those people?  I doubt it.  But I would argue that practically everyone raised in a racially biased society will bear elements of that bias.

Solely for the thumpity-thump, IMHO. Rap might not exist if we had not quit funding music appreciation in our schools. 

Bit what do I know?

Calvinj. Im a huge fan of too short.  I think most members on these forums would faint if they listened to his lyrics...lol

Too short's album Get in where you fit in. Has an instrumental called "The Ghetto Reprise". He had an old school funk guitarist play the instrumental.  Listen to Mos Def "Umi Says" It's actually the theme song for Nike commercials. Great musicians on that one.  

So, onhwy61, if I suggest that Andy Warhol's Campbell's soup cans may not actually be art, am I continuing a tradition of bashing gays?
No, because the art itself is separate from the artist.  My opinion of Warhol's art has absolutely nothing--I repeat NOTHING--to do with his sexuality.  You think it's all connected.  It's not.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.  Lighten up.

Listen to Mos Def, Black On Both Sides on a good system. Outstanding album.

aolmrd1241: I enjoy my Everlast "Eat At Whitey's" lp from time to time. FWIW: I believe the first song with rap to reach #1 was Blondie's "Rapture".

@onhwy61 Thank you for articulately stating what I was flailing around trying to say.

It's still an unfair presumption.  It's saying, "I know what you're thinking and what's in your heart."  It's very unfair.  I was largely raised by a black lady who I loved.  I worked under black men and I worked side by side with black boys.  I formed and played in a band with a black friend when I was in high school.   I have spent my adult life playing a lot of black music, listening to a lot of black music and supporting political candidates who I think cares about minority causes.  I would never support one who I thought did not. 
I grew up in the old south.  I knew men, and sadly, kids who thought black people were inferior.  You know the story, you've seen it in movies and tv all your life and maybe you grew up with it, too.  I'll not have you putting me in with those miserable people I knew long ago.  If you do you are making a big mistake.  Excuse me if I don't sit here and take this quietly.