I'm an old fashioned guy. I like to make my audio purchases from a store and have a person I deal with, establish a relationship, and know that I have someone I can call when I need things. That is why I went into one of the larger stores in my area the other day, ready to audition a couple of things and buy my system. I had a very clear idea of what I wanted, asked to listen to a component with a view to buying it. The dealer had a completely wrong approach from the start, and it is not a unique situation. I know many good folks in the business are on these forums, so I want to ask why this happens. From the moment I set foot in the store he created an atmosphere of fairly intense pressure. He started with "you know, I only demo for buying customers". Throughout the visit, I felt continuously pressured to buy on the spot. I was forced to cut my visit short and I was unable to fully appreciate the component I was auditioning. I went from wanting to buy to wanting to run away - who feels comfortable buying something when pressured and rushed to do so right away? So I left the store unsure that I would want to do business with him. Had I had a good experience, and a knowledge that I can go to the store any time and have a good experience rather than have to find a way to "escape" the pressure I would not only have been happy to buy what I wanted, but would have been back often for other purchases. I cannot for the life of me understand where this comes from. One argument I heard is that store owners don't want to have people audition things and then buy online. Well, first off short of refusing to have a show room I don't see how you can make completely sure of that. So, wouldn't making the customer feel comfortable in your store be a better strategy? For me, I now want to shop online rather than go back. And here is one more twist. All online dealers for the product I was looking at make it clear they will not sell to anyone who has a dealer in their area. So I could not buy that online anyway!! Can anyone enlighten me? Why can I not go to a local store and have that be a pleasant experience any more?
I option to purchase according to need and situation but I also have several outstanding storefront dealers in my area who have no problem not only auditioning specific equipment, but also bringing good deals to my attention. In that case I would probably purchase from them but it has seemed to no way affect the attentions I receive from excellent dealers.
Another situation arose when I recently purchased a TT from a local dealer. He offered me an open box price which matched online prices and re-checked the set up for me for free before leaving.
If I wanted to purchase a DAC or a solid state amp, I would probably buy online based on experience and or recommendations.
Just as I would change the water filters in my home but I would call a plumber to change my water heater, I believe there is a market for both the online sellor and storefront sales. Having said that, those that earn my business receive my business and those that mess with me don't see me again.
Cajunpepe, in St. Pete. I drove into a Ferrari dealership in a rental Chevy, which I thought I had parked out of view from the show room. All I wanted to see was whether or not I could sit in the spyder, the model now escapes me. You would have thought that I had the plague. Finally, they let me sit in one. I am long waisted and 6'2". Had I bought that car, I would have always risked decapitation.
The guy who showed me to the car, seemed indifferent to my concern, but I realized that I was never to own a Ferrari. Porsches fit me quite well as did older Alfas.
I went to the local Mercedes dealership to test drive the new AMG 63 (@$55k). I pulled up in my 1994 Jeep Cherokee. I was told that that car could not be taken out for a test drive. Five days later I stopped by again on my way home from the office wearing a suit in my 2008 BMW 535i and asked to test drive the MB AMG 63 and the keys were in my hand in 3 minutes! The ass clown salesman did not even realize that I was the same person he denied 5 days earlier. After driving I refreshed his memory and gave the "judging a book by its cover" speech to him. It probably did no good.
Back to the main topic... I have been buying mail order since the '70's- both camera gear and stereo gear. I didn't do it exclusive of shop owners but usually because what I wanted was not available to me locally. I have no problem paying a little more at a local store because I want him there for the service as well as to demo the hardware. The occasional shop owner that was not good to work with or had only his profits in mind never lasted too long.
The days of gigantic, price above service, chain stores will run it's course. They are the ones that will succumb first to internet shopping. Because if price is all that matters and I can get it a dollar cheaper delivered to my door, then why bother even driving to the mega warehouse?
The successful shop owners are the ones that can demonstrate a real value of their services to customers. And the best customers are the ones that see real value for their service. It's not for everyone- many will still look only for the bottom dollar.
My experience was just the opposite. I borrowed speakers from one dealer and brought them to another who sells another line of speakers. They helped me to bring them in, installed them with their best gear and played couple of hours switching speakers. At the end I told them I still like speakers I brought in more and they had no problem with it (very friendly). What happened to you was ridiculous and you're probably not the only customer that will never go back. I wonder how long they will stay in business. Don't loose hope - there are good dealers.
Many companies don't allow to sell their stuff over the phone or internet.
Was it Henry the 8th or Shakespeare or said" First,lets kill all the lawyers and politicians?"Some of you girls/boys would believe Mc Cain if he said he was black and Obama if he said he will cure cancer.Never underestimate the power of denial.Now back to the news....
Mrt, if we accept (which personally I don't) that these gentlemen along with their accomplishments are "stooges", I'm curious as to where you view yourself in the food chain.
Me too Viridian, at least according to my wife. I'm just pulling mrtennis' chain a little.
BTW, like them or not, I couldn't call Obama and McCain stooges.
Let's see, one candidate worked his way up from a single parent childhood to the top of his party's ticket, inspiring millions of people while running one of the most brilliant political campaigns in American history. The other has a lifetime of service for his nation under his belt, including serving bravely in the military, and putting the welfare of his buddies ahead of his own while frequently suffering unspeakable torture.
I fondly remember when I used to visit big cities and go to audio shops. I would often get a chance to hear what Holt and Pearson were talking about. At the time I did have local dealers who had only one listening room and typically only the less expensive lines.
Now shows like the RMAF and THE Show and an extensive group of people whose opinions I trust fulfill the function of directing my attention to new products. Both approaches have their benefits, but I will always remember auditioning seven different Decca London cartridges in a near northside audio shop in Chicago to pick those I liked and bought. I was like a kid in a candy store.
I think survival of store front businesses now is very shaky. Most manufacturers have direct sales, "if there is no dealer in your area."
"The best dealer will always let you into their flagship room because that is the only place where you will get the reference you need to make the right decisions about your own system, whether it is a $2,000 system or a $10,000 system or a $50,000 system, or whatever"
I am 28, I have been involved in the audio hobby for about 15 years.
My high-end audio dealer is my favorite retail store and that includes all types of goods. As a 17-18 year old kid I took up a lot of their time. I probably made a purchase one out of every four times I walked in the door. The rest of the time I was consulting with the owner and salespeople, listening to equipment well outside of my price range for reference, and just picking their brain.
However, as a result of their liberal policies, zero pressure attitude, and expertise, I was able to make very, very smart purchasing decisions. By the time I was 21 I probably spent close to $8k-10k on components and accessories that have lasted almost a decade. I took a long hiatus for college and law school and am getting back into it after an almost seven year break. Or I should say, seven years of being broke.
So even though most of the time I show up there I can't really afford to buy anything and I am really just investigating, the relationship they formed with me will probably be worth tens of thousands of dollars when it is time to close the book on this system.
How does a normal, middle-class person wind up with a seriously awesome high-end system? Upgrading and trading in one component at a time, strategically and thoughtfully, over decades. That means developing long term relationships with dealers that know the equipment and the auditioning process, and want to get to know you.
The best dealer will always let you into their flagship room because that is the only place where you will get the reference you need to make the right decisions about your own system, whether it is a $2,000 system or a $10,000 system or a $50,000 system, or whatever.
people who apply pressure to sell you something may make the best deals.
i welcome the challenge of high pressure salespersons. i sometimes get good deals using my superior negotiating skills-- the greater the desperation, the higher the discount.
"You're unlikely to find too many average audio salesmen who share your ethusiasm for demoing equipment."
Too bad if true. I sold a lot of equipment years ago just by paying attention to people's needs when they walked in the store and enjoyed the process of demo'ing options as well.
Of course, I was just a naive college kid back then. Times have changed for sure and certainly not always for the better.
This forum is probably a good place for posting specific queries to find the best nearby place & salesman to source a particular piece. That way you can visit the showroom by appointment on a referral basis and get the attention you deserve based on a preexisting relationship. You're unlikely to find too many average audio salesmen who share your ethusiasm for demoing equipment. As an old hooker once said, "You've been the business too long when you start cumming with the customer."
Its true as Shadorne points out in a busy store that salespeople will naturally try to target the person who appears to be the next big ticket.
However, most shops I go into these days are not that busy so you would expect the sales people are more ready in general to go the extra mile to make a sale.
And there are still those that will treat anyone with honest intentions with respect and service when they walk into a store...but this may be less common in general unfortunately these days....
If you tell them you moved to a new bigger house and need a new system they will jump all over you. If you tell them your just kicking tires and you are honest and say you just want to hear something out of curiosity you will usually be ignored. The salespeople are often competing in the store....they size people up fast and try to keep themselves available for when the Goldman Sachs investment banker/broker with the "i want to build a complete HT system" and "it must be better than my friends" walks in.
Fortunately some of your toughest competition (those guys at Goldman Sachs used to earn an average of $622,000 a year and the I bought a brand new bigger house crowd) may be out of a job and a house - so the salespeople may turn their attention to ordinary folks again ;-) ( Just kidding)
By the way, it must be hard for live dealers to try to operate with traditional boutique business models these days. Audiophiles are a finicky bunch when it comes to how systems sound, and what you hear in a store is not necessarily what you'll hear at home, so there is a risk involved if you are a buyer dropping a lot of cash on a product and then you get it home and it does not pan out for some reason.
I guess really knowledgeable dealers are aware of this and provide good, honest input to help avoid this situation rather than looking for the fast sale, like with those that got us into this sub-prime mortgage problem.
If I were a dealer these days, I would look to provide value added via the live experience over what a customer can expect shopping online. Old fashioned boutique business models alone might not cut it.
You encountered a bad dealer, plain and simple. His attitude is self defeating. The only way he can survive is to provide better service to his customers than the alternatives and apparently he isn't.
Try to find a good one if you can. They are still around at least in my area (Baltimore/DC metro area).
Otherwise, get used to buying online either used so as to be able to try and sell if needed without taking a loss or from good on-line companies with appropriate policies regarding in-home auditioning and guaranteed customer satisfaction.
I think age has something to do with it. In my 20's sales people assumed I was either not serious, had no money or didn't know anything about the product I was shopping for. But now that I am 50, salespeople are a little more respectful, I find.
I like to visit stereo shops in the different towns I visit around the world. Some places are cold and indifferent and some places the sales people like to chat and talk shop. One of my best experiences in a stereo store was in Las Vegas in the 90's. I literally traded the shirt off my back for a Half Speed Master recording of APP's Tales of Mystery and Imagination. I was on a vehicle hot fuel test and the shop owner liked the corporate vehicle logos on my shirt. So I took off my dirty smelly shirt and grabbed a clean shirt out of the trunk of my car. Love that record.
I went to a car audio place once, and asked if they had any high end drivers as I was redoing my car stereo at the time. I was looking for Morel, Focal, Dynaudio, Scan-speak, etc. quality drivers.
The guy (who I think was the owner?) told me that their best line was Boston Acoustics, and that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Boston and those other overpriced drivers.
Needless to say, I was out of there very quickly and gave my business to someone else.
On the other side of things... if anyone is in the New England area and is looking for a great dealer (no pressure, relationship style, patient, helpful, respectful, etc.) give Goodwins High End in Waltham a try. They are awesome.
1. I go to a store to buy a TV. A salesperson is at the counter reading an audio magazine. There are no other customers in the store. I walk over and say: "I'm looking for a new TV for my home theatre. Without even looking up from his magazine, he say: "When are you going to buy?". I say: "When I can find someone who will help me", and walk out of the store.
2. I go to a store to buy a new cartridge. My old one could not be repaired at a reasonable cost due to the nature of the damage. I confirmed with the manufacturer that it couldn't be repaired before going to the store. I tell the salesperson: "I'm looking for a new ". He asks what was wrong and then says: "We can fix that". I said: "The manufacturer says it can't be repaired". The salesguy says: "I know more about that cartridge than the manufacturer does". I walk out of the store.
3. I go to a store to audition a peice of equipment. The salesperson says: "We charge a deposit to audition equipment. If you buy, the deposit goes towards the purchase price. If you don't buy, the deposit is non-refundable since we can't sell the item as new once the box is opened." I say: "I don't pay to audition equipment." I walk out of the store.
Needless to say, none of these stores ever received any business from me.
I enjoyed reading all the above experiences, especially those regarding car buying. I sold cars for 19 years and always found it amusing how much money I made off the ignorance and over-all lack of selling skills of other car salesman. Customers just want to be treated fairly, not lied to, and want to walk away from the buying experience with the feeling that we both benefited from the transaction. I actually had customers who did not buy a car from me refer their friends and family to me. It's disappointing to see those who have no customer skills in the wrong occupation.
I've had the opposite experience in Denver. With almost no exceptions I've created relationships with people who are very knowledgeable, patient, and truly care. Maybe you should call the store owner (assuming it's not a big store) and talk to him/her. You might create a relationship with someone that will enhance your future experiences. After all if we all just buy things online, we may not like the world we create.
I don't understand why a dealer would have such an attitude but I've come to the understanding that it is a waste of time to try to enlighten one. Just walk away and enjoy the amusement of the show of ignorance.
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