I heard that too, that you can get at least some Japanese cartridges directly from Japan. Sometimes, even buying from the UK is less expensive. American prices on imports are often bloated because..you know why. Yes, $10k for a great cartridge that would last 20 years would be acceptable to me. Not the case.
As for the mystic surrounding this..to a degree maybe for some.
If you have great turntable, tonearm and phono stage, sure, you just get the cartridge you think will be best for this set-up and your taste. Still, the price appears to be disproportinally high for many. Bazaar economy laws of course apply, but this doesn't mean that the thing itself has such a high intrinsic value.
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Dave,
You are a big thinker. |
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Though a side issue raised by willemj, it requires a response. Willem, you are entitled to your opinion regarding CD players vs. turntables, but you are ignoring one kind of important fact: an LP won't fit into a CD player's disc tray. I have a lot of music on LP, music I'm not going to through out even if CD players did sound better than LP players. Which they don't, by the way. |
A big part of the problem may be economies of scale.
Back in the 70's, everyone that listened to music at home, owned a turntable, arm and cartridge. There were hundreds of companies making cartridges at all price points. The skill for building cartridges was more widespread and parts were mass produced.
Today, cartridges, especially MC, are a niche market (inside a niche market). Getting parts made, skilled assemblers, skilled designers, etc is quite a bit tougher, and therefore, more expensive.
Now, I am not saying these are the only factors, but I am sure they account for part of the high prices. |
From what i gather you can buy direct from Japan for those made there and the price is not much different than the retailer here pays. You don’t get a warranty from the company by doing so, since they are gray goods, but I know people who save a lot of money doing this with high end cartridges.
I hate the fact that the big league cartridges are often $10k plus.
One theory- I certainly haven’t been able to prove it--is that if you buy a very expensive arm, you can get away with a lesser cartridge--e.g. that SAT? which retails for 32k dollars? Hell, that’s only the cost of two cartridges and a ’good’ arm.
There is a mystique to these things- built by hand by ancient Japanese, miniature winding techniques, exotic wood and stone bodies, etc.
I like what the Airtights sound like on my system, so I’m on my second one- the Supreme- no doubt when that goes, I’ll ramp up a step.
Never tried to have one ’retipped’ but may do so at some point- then again, when there’s something "better," why go backwards?
There’s a lot to vintage that I like but vintage cartridges make me wary.
One thing I’m interested in doing, when I finish my vintage set up and install an SME 3012r, is trying a whole range of less expensive cartridges- from the SPU to the wooden Grado, etc.
PS: the really galling thing is that they are degrading consumables that have to be replaced. Tubes are the same, and sometimes expensive, but generally, cheaper even for some of the better NOS ones. A piece of gear, like the turntable or tonearm, amp, etc. can last a lifetime. Speakers, maybe not so long, but there are refurbishment possibilities for those, as well as vintage amps.
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Everything is stupid at its extreme. These threads you start seem to be aimed at generating contempt toward those that can/do spend a lot of money on audio.
I, like many here, don't have that kind of money but have instead spent many years and countless hours assembling an audio system that is not defined by such identity bias. Maybe start some threads on how that is done...
Dave
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One does not contradict another. What you said is obvious and that's why I didn't even mention it.
Yes, I hear enough people putting $3k cartridges on $3k turntables and playing them thru $2k phono. This will not be bad, this will be stupid. |
inna,
Assigning relative cost structures to equipment is ludicrous. Results vary widely regardless of price and are instead tied to educated equipment matching and proper setup, especially with turntables, tonearms, cartridges, and phono stages.
Dave
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We are not talking about cd players, you might've lost the direction a little bit. |
Even so, any decent cd player will be superior. Turntables are just money spinners for the trade, and if you are like me and you like mechanical engineering, they are also nice toys.
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Besides, if you get $2500 cartridge you better have $5k tonearm, $10 turntable and at least $5k phono stage. Add tonearm cable and power cords and it's $25k only for the front end. Which means $100k system, about. |
It's like real estate in Manhattan. Do you know who drives the prices up and how exactly it's done?
$2.5k for an ordinary cartridge is a lot. It must be outstanding.
By the way, great $50k speakers is okay with me. If you keep them for 20 years it's not too bad. |
They are the emperor's new clothes.
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Come on @inna to use AirTight as an illustration. At the same time they added the $15K Magnum Opus they also brought out the $2.5K PC-7 at the bottom end so bringing the cost of entry to the line down. The same is true of most manufacturers in that we are seeing options added that expand the range at both ends |
Big deal is that the increasing number of audiophiles cannot afford anything real good new and like second rate citizens have to chase things on a 'flea' market. |
Why does everyone have such a problem with value pricing. If company X wants to sell something that delivers a 1% increase in perceived performance over anything else they have then they are free to (and by economic theory bound to) charge as much as the market is prepared to pay for that improvement. The manufacturing costs or other fixed costs are irrelevant, as long as they are covered in the long run. And, As others have pointed out, in the context of a six figure analog system changing the cartridge is in fact one of the cheaper ways of upgrading. |
I can only imagine the hours that are spent voicing a top LOMC design and then they are usually built by hand one at a time. This costs money. These are not a commodity to be judged by weight or only cost of materials, although that is quite high too as all parts are highest spec and unique to that design.
Economies of scale are not in play and amortization of the design cost is poor as not many of a given model are sold.
Dave
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In 1978 The Audio Critic tested and found the Koetsu to be the best sounding mc phono cartridge. But was appalled by its high price - $1000!!! Today I just saw an ad for an Opus 1 mc cartridge - used: $10,000 (list price $15k)!!! I am going to wait for the Marie Antoinette mc cartridge. "Let them eat cake"!!! Such are the times we live in! Trophies for the 1%!!! |
In this day and age of $250K speakers, $50K+ preamps, amps, $35K phono stages, $300K+ turntables (as shown above), and $50K speaker cables, what is the big deal about $5-$10K phono cartridges? |
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