There is one sub in a different class from all others, and that's not said pejoratively. The Eminent Technology TRW-17 Rotary Woofer is designed to be used from 30Hz down, a subwoofer for all other subwoofers.
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tomic601 wrote: "for those of us with powered bass bass and EQ built into our mains, when adding a sub w EQ we get most IF not all the benefits of swarm..." Are you describing a system with two fullrange equalized main speakers plus an equalized sub, which overlaps and augments (rather than replaces) the main speakers down low? If so, then yes that can definitely be competitive with a four-piece Swarm. Warning: The following three paragraphs go into some technical stuff. If you don’t like technical stuff, please skip them. A single equalized sub can give excellent results in the sweet spot, but often makes things worse outside the sweet spot. This is because the room-interaction peak-and-dip pattern is specific to that sub location and that listener location. Thus in other listening locations the peaks and dips will have moved around, such that in those locations the EQ could be boosting a peak and/or cutting a dip. With a distributed multisub system, the multiple dissimilar peak-and-dip patterns sum at any given listening position, and therefore tend to smooth one another out. The only way they could fail to smooth one another out would be if they were identical, and that won’t happen unless the subs are all in the exact same location. If there is still a significant residual peak or dip, chances are it’s present throughout the room, and therefore is a good candidate for correction via EQ. In other words, a distributed multisub system actually makes EQ more effective (though less likely to be needed), because its benefits are more likely to extend throughout the room. And "smooth" bass is "fast" bass, because it is the in-room peaks which decay more slowly than the rest of the bass spectrum and therefore sound "slow". Yes we can hear the difference in perceptual "speed" between different types of subs, but that goes back to which is creating the biggest in-room peaks, and it will be the sub that is loudest in that region. Anyway imo you are WELL ahead of the game with three distributed, equalize-able bass sources. Earl Geddes, whose ideas I use (with his permission) in the Swarm, later moved to using three independently-equalized subs, with the equalization settings generated by his own proprietary algorithm from in-room measurements. I’m no Earl Geddes, so I’m still using his first-generation four-piece distributed multisub concept. I wish I had sufficient economies of scale to do a $1500 budget-Swarm system... alas, not even close. The labor cost on the boxes doesn't go down significantly as the box size decreases, and labor is my biggest cost. Duke |
The Vandersteen way provides great bass at the listening chair by analog EQ applied by using a microphone at the listening chair. swarm is certainly good, especially if the War Department can tolerate 4 small subs placed around the room in addition to two ( or more ) main speakers... for those of us with powered bass bass and EQ built into our mains, when adding a sub w EQ we get most IF not all the benefits of swarm... call me a Vandersteen fan boy.... elite should not be so so narrowly defined IMO we have it really, really good with great quality subs right now, especially with value focused firms like SVS and Rhythmic i have no experience w JL most people dial up the sub wayyyy to hot, .... give me quality over quantity |
The Audiokinesis Swarm is one of the best subwoofer systems out there. Most do things like 'bass in the room but not at the listening chair' due to standing waves in the room; the Swarm solves this problem (provides uniform bass at all frequencies) while at the same time being relatively unobtrusive. |
I’ll speak up for SVS as well...whether "elite" or just for the downtrodden masses. They definitely improved overall sound quality of my system. I’m running a pair of SVS SB1000s (sealed, 12", 300 watts) each located just inside a floor stander (Totem Forests or Silverline Prelude Pluses). I hear none of the issues millercarbon mentions. Apart from the blue LEDs being on, you don’t know they are until switched off. The bass they support is seamless with the main speakers, nuanced and textured...hardly "one note" and definitely not boomy. With a 45 day in home audition option, a 5 year warranty and "free" shipping (even on the return if you don’t like them) they’re worth at least considering. |
Here's a technical article essential to understanding subwoofers https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxgUOGOB5HbfR0JTRF9XZjkyUms/view |
Thank you all for insight. No, it doesn't have to be expensive. All the comments so far are people following the old method of using one, or sometimes two, really big and powerful subs. Using one or even two means they have to be big and powerful. Using 4 means they can be much smaller. But that's not even the biggest benefit. The real problem with subs, which you will discover real fast if you try, is lumpy, uneven bass response. This is for every sub made and there is no way around it. This is why I said "impossible" above. Its simply a fact of physics. So here's what happens. You stick the sub somewhere. Does not matter where. You listen. You hear more bass. Great. You're so happy. But then you notice its one note bass. Above and below that one note it drops off real fast. So you move the sub. Now its a different note. Turns out there's a whole thesis research paper study done on this with exhaustive measurements proving it is impossible to achieve even bass response with just one sub. Or even two. Or even three, but its getting closer. Four and you are there. More is even better, but not a lot. Four is the sweet spot. Nice even powerful bass from 4 not very big subs. That's what you want. Read the papers. Save your money. |
I’m gonna plug SVS simply because I own two SB-2000s (sealed version, 12 inch driver, 500 watts RMS, continuously adjustable for volume, phase and low pass filter) run in stereo. Not only do they sound wonderful, but they are well built, low profile and are priced for high value. Bass quality is quick and powerful with very clear, defined and textured sub-bass notes. I should add you could buy two for $1400. |
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The problem with subs is it is impossible to get uniform, even and powerful deep bass with just one or even two subs. Also they cannot be located symmetrically the way the two main speakers are or you only make the inherent uneven response even worse. A minimum of three (and four is much better) located asymmetrically are required. The good news is using 4 allows them to be quite a bit smaller. The best solution seems to be here: http://www.audiokinesis.com/the-swarm-subwoofer-system-1.html |