Just buy the Jay transport if you have the money over Nuprime 8.
I have Nuprime Evo dac and CDT 8 Pro.
I don't think you should get all crazy over NOS or OS.
I don't think it sounds better with upsampling.
I have noted it also becomes more of edge.
The most natural is leaving both units upsampling off if you have very resolving cables in your system. If you tweak it with less resolving cables, maybe you prefer a higher sampling rate!?
|
Before you argue for crazy upsampling rates on red book cds...
I have my transport set at upsamling OFF.
I have noted that all forced upsampling just make it sounds unnatural.
I have my transport decoupled (floating) /discs of silenece on solid oak platform. Under transport i use black diamong racing mk4 pucks and cones. My dac is on a more solid base. Entreq feets, solid oak platform, on that i have SSC (string suspension concept) platform and transport on black diamond racing mk3 pucks and cones.
If i for instance change discs of silence to SSC feets, it sounds way way different. If you should deem cables, transports and very much upsampling, i hope you got your machines on something that rid them of external vibrations and more current.
|
Interesting claims that CDT-8 Pro have high jitter.
According to Nuprime, it's quite the opposite |
OP: You are the only one who can answer your questions to your satisfaction and finality. The feedback of others has little value because their system will differ from your system. Just buy the Jay’s Audio transport and evaluate it in your system. If you’re in the US, then you should speak with Mike Powell, who is the US distributor/dealer for Jay’s Audio products. Mike offers a money-back guarantee or store credit if you don’t like the Jay’s Audio transport.
I see you’re in Canada. Mike might cover Canada. Give him a call to ask. |
"I came away with the same conclusion and suspect it’s high jitter output as the basis for that conclusion. The Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK2 is extraordinary in its presentation of Redbook audio discs. Not surprisingly, it has very low jitter."
@celander
You are absolutely correct entry level transports usually have high jitter this is why most of them are terrible.my Simaudio 260T is much better than my previous Cambridge CXC transport the sound is more musical, effortless , detailed and 'analog' most likely because the 260T has very low jitter. |
i want ice cream, some people like vanilla and some like chocolate,
which one is best? see what i mean. |
Gee thanks, pesky_wabbit, for your wise counsel.
I never imagined that it could be unwise to make "choices based on theoretical reasoning based on filtered feedback from a forum." Imagine that. You have opened my eyes.
And thank you even more for reading my mind with such devastating accuracy. I never imagined how transparent I have been in displaying my real motivation for the OP.
Here's the thing, Sir. I have not made my mind up about anything. There is no decision here that needs positive reinforcing. I am genuinely up in the air about what transport to settle upon, and have been seeking counsel on the matter.
Your nasty post does help.
|
Making choices based on theoretical reasoning based on filtered feedback from a forum is not a wise methodology for component selection.
What you are really seeking is positive reinforcement for your decision.
|
I think that Ill s__t awhile longer, thanks.
|
if you are waiting on a clear cut yes or no answer you'll be waiting until the cows come home. you would think the jay's dac and cdt were made to go together so s_ it or get off the pot and make a choice. |
Bigkidz likes a musical transport over an analytical one. And he didn’t like the CDT-8 Pro because it was not musical. I came away with the same conclusion and suspect it’s high jitter output as the basis for that conclusion. The Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK2 is extraordinary in its presentation of Redbook audio discs. Not surprisingly, it has very low jitter. |
@zimmerma - we did no prefer the Nuprime as a transport. We felt that that one in particular was very open with nice details but it was one of the transports that lot the musicality. It was an interesting unit though. The details it presented at first listen sounded very natural until we all go a handle on the sound. BUT it all comes down to your system and what you prefer not mine or anybody else's tastes. Go with what you like. And you only can understand and learn the differences in comparison in your system. You don't know what you have not experienced yet. It is that simple. My DAC is a Directed Heated Triode Tube design. I would bet that no person hear has heard a DHT product.
Again, Happy Listening |
Many thanks, bigkidz, for an illuminating comparison.
Especially helpful was your association, respectively, of
.....the NOS with a kind of musicality that yields the "texture and timbre" of certain instruments, and
.....the OS with increased resolution and detail.
I shall now do another comparison of the NOS and OS outputs of the Nuprime transport with your listening impressions in mind... or in ear.
|
The differences are not substantial but here goes. The 44 was the most musical so I call it hearing the wood of the instrument like stand up bass or piano. The other settings offered a little more detail and more resolution but it is only slightly over the 44 setting. But you tend to miss the wood on the instruments so it sounds a little faster because the notes do not decay as slowly therefore the wood sound is missing, again slightly. I used the NANO to demonstrate my DAC when I took it to someones home to hear. It was not embarrassed by any means as a transport. If you only had the funds for a really good DAC and you can get a Nano cheap in the meantime, then get the Nano. Later it can be used a s a back-up and it takes up no space at all. PLUS you can upgraded the power supply for a slight improvement also from the tiny little wall wart.
The Rega and CEC do not OS. The Rega is interesting because it really sounded good as a transport. I don't remember the differences between the Nano and Rega. My friend who had them in his system preferred the CEC TL5100Z used as a transport by a lot over the Rega. He prefers his sound musical over non-musical think tubes vs. SS. BUT again, the Rega sounded very good with our DAC which is a TUBE DAC. My friend has a Musical Fidelity (M-1 model??) which I modified with upgraded resistors, filter choke and V-Cap capacitors. It sounds pretty good unless you compare to our DAC, then it gets wiped out completely.
I am hoping to do the comparison again in another members system next month but to a better or higher priced CEC dedicated transport. Then I will know for sure if the claims that the Jays is as good or better than that model CEC.
Happy Listening.
|
That is very illuminating, bigkidz.
Would it be possible to characterize the improvement that you detected in the OS output over the NOS output of the NANO?
Does either the Rega or the CEC OS? That would provide a useful base of comparison with the Jay's Audio transport? If so, the exercise would directly address my concern in the OP.
|
I owned the NANO transport. For the $400 bucks I paid for the new unit, it was not embarrassed by my favorite transport the Audiomeca. It was excellent for $400. The different samples had an improvement but not worth worrying about. I am hopefully going to compare the Jays audio transport to a Rega and CEC next month and I will post my findings again. This time it will be in another persons system versus my own.
Happy Listening. |
celander:
That's right, Sir. I like the Jay's Audio DAC, and also the Denafrips Pontus. They stay in my system[s].
The OP was all about the choice of a transport: putatively inferior NOS- and OS-capable [Nuprime] that I already have or putatively superior strictly NOS-capable [Jay's Audio] that I am contemplating buying.
|
OP: I’m speaking about the choice of transports. From your original post, I gathered you intend to keep the Jay’s Audio DAC. |
Itazhak1969:
You've made it abundantly clear that you really can't take a point; it is equally clear that you really do not understand the point of the OP.
So, I too think that we have run out of reasons to continue our exchange here.
By all means, then, let us not continue to darken each other's Audiogon Forum doors again.
|
You really don't get it... Jay transport is high end transport that can really make substantial improvement Nuprime is entry level transport that is not at the same level as your transport it's like you are trying to move Cadillac car with Subaru engine don't you get it ???
Instead of trying to match the suitable transport to your dac you are messing with nuncess like OS vs. NOS transport.
This is is my last reply to you everybody here trying to help you but you keep repeating the same nuncess about OS transport theory like it is a must for improvement sound ,if it was so
why Jay Audio didn't make OS transport ?
The simple answer is because they don't believe in it ! |
itazhak:
The first lines of your post make absolutely no sense.
I said: "To be honest, I cannot hear a bit of difference "--- That is, no difference in a comparison bt. the OS and the NOS inputs from my transport when processed by the Jay's Audio DAC that can deal with both.
Then you say: "You said it by yourself !"
Said what? What do you think that I said?
I said that I could not hear a difference in a comparison bt. the OS and the NOS inputs from my transport.
That would seem to be an argument AGAINST investing a lot more money in the Jay's transport.... NOT an argument in favour of the expenditure.
If I cannot hear the difference bt an OS and a NOS input.... then why buy the strictly NOS transport?
Sir, I do think that you one very big axe to grind.... against OS. |
"To be honest, I cannot hear a bit of difference. " You said it by yourself ! As celander told you OS Seems like marketing hype absent such compelling reason .no more no less . Only If the original recording was recorded as hi-res or professional studio remastered the original recording to hi-res one you will hear difference any other OS process is just marketing illusions. It’s remind me in the past everybody bought graphic equaliser because we thought it essential to the system just to figure out that it was nuncess almost nobody is buying GEQ today. If you buy the Jay transport you will hear real improvement despite it’s NOS .If you will stick to the OS method it will lead you anywhere. https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/what-a-week-jays-cd-transport-review-and-room-rearrangement.7... |
celander:
Thanks for a useful post. I have compared some of the OS settings on the CDT8 with its NOS setting, feeding the Jay's DAC.... To be honest, I cannot hear a bit of difference. More listening is called for.
Just to be clear: I already own the Jay's DAC, and have so since the OP. So, I don't have "to make the decision to buy" it.
twoleftears [great tag!]:
I have been trying to get a straight and useful answer to that question since the OP. Not much luck....
Also to the question of how many DACs there are out there that can take a NOS signal from a transport and convert it onboard into an OS signal....No luck there either.
One would think that there are answers to these two simple hardware questions..
|
Besides the CDT8 and the soon-to-be-released CDT10, how many other OS transports are there?? |
Yeah, I just realize-read that line. In any event, you’ve already made the decision to buy a Jay’s Audio DAC. So the question is actually reduced quite a bit to the singular issue about whether a OS transport is better than a NOS transport. It seems to me that you can answer that question with your present setup. Just compare the SQ of your system with the CDT-8 Pro set in NOS mode vs. OS mode. If you prefer the SQ of your setup in OS, then the issue is settled. If you don’t, then get the Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK2 transport. |
celander:
The first line of the OP still holds: "I currently have a Nuprime CDT 8 feeding a Jay's Audio DAC."
|
OP: what are you now using as a transport? |
celander:
I do think that you are missing the point. It's not about the comparative virtues or defects of OS transports per se; it's about the comparative merits and defects of OS transports when they feed an OS-capable DAC.
The two high quality DACs I am fortunate enough to have, the Jay's Audio and the Denafrips Pontus, will OS only if they are fed an OS signal from the transport. To belabour the point, if they are fed a 44.1K signal, that is what they convert to analogue.
I am not asserting that "an OS transport would improve the sound quality." I am asking whether an OS-capable transport feeding an OS-capable DAC has virtues that would be lost if that same DAC were limited in its conversion to a strictly NOS input from a strictly NOS transport.
If you are convinced that all the b other about oversampling is a waste of time and mere marketing hype [as itzhak1969 obviously does], then that settles the question raised in the OP for you, and there is not more to be said on the matter.
But I am trying to maintain an open mind about the possible sonic virtues of OS. After all, OS does have its champions in the audio world, not all of whom by any stretch have a financial stake in the matter. Now, I shall get off this site and spend some time compiling a list of them.
|
OP: I guess everyone, including you, has failed to explain or discuss the reasons to even consider a OS transport. I don’t see any inherent advantages for selecting an OS transport over a NOS transport. And those who market such OS transports fail to persuade the reader of any perceived advantages an OS transport affords. In the end, it’s the sound quality of the entire audio system that matters. I’m simply not convinced an OS transport would improve the sound quality. Seems like marketing hype absent such compelling reasons. |
experienced listener here is telling you to go for the Jay transport & DAC combination...
|
No gurus, nonoise4, just experienced listeners.
Best...... |
Apparently, the magic 8-ball is broken.
If you're looking for a guru, pick one of the many (choose a path) and proceed from there, otherwise, you'll continue to be disappointed.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Many thanks for the kind, and optimistic, word, maxima95. |
“Remember, zimmerma, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. I will be hoping that this post finds you, and finds you well.”
|
Nice Strother Martin impression, lpretiring. Despite all the well-meaning responses to my OP, I have received precious little real help in answering my basic question, formulated and re-formulated many times...about the comparative merits of 1. A putatively lesser OS-capable transport with a very good OS- and NOS-capable DAC vs 2. A putatively superior strictly NOS transport with that same very good DAC in strictly NOS mode. Mainly, I have received rapturous effusions about the wonders of NOS, diatribes against the very idea of OS... both despite the fact that this debate is genuinely open in the audio literature. I have tried to get information about DACs that are capable of onboard OS-ing even if they receive a NOS signal from a strictly NOS transport. No dice there either. Perhaps I should follow shakira's [tongue in cheek?] advice and just buy a cheap CD player. But I continue to hope.
|
"What we have here is....failure to communicate." |
|
I think you need to get a cheap CD player
or resign yourself from this beautiful hobby. |
itzhak1969:
Where is the switch on the Chord 2qute DAC that enables one to OS an incoming NOS signal? I can't see one on any of the pictures.... and there is no reference to that NOS-OS capability in any of the reviews.
Any other DACs with the feature you claim? |
For example the Chord 2qute DAC. Bellow interesting thread that OS just made things worst and why : "However, the fact that the sample value is only an approximation based on resolution creates problems. Conversion to a higher bit rate, although strictly able to hold all the frequencies (per the above), is compromised because the sampled wave isn’t perfect. Digitisation errors will occur." https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/119932-should-i-upsample-with-chord-dac/My best advice is to buy the Jay transport to your Jay dac substantial improved sound is guarantee. |
itzhak1969
That is interesting. What are some of the DACs that have an onboard switch that allows the user to choose between OS and NOS mode, even if the incoming signal from the transport is strictly NOS? |
George you correct dCS Rossini has OS transport with clock ,Player costs $28,499, the Clock $7499 but they are rare. In my opinion better to use NOS transport and if you really want OS buy quality DAC with OS and NOS switch option and have the flexibility to choose what is the best for you .OS is very complicated process entry level transports implement low quality chipsets and they can not do OS correctly.OS is not a magical solution to improving sound. Many in the thread below found the NOS sounds better : https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/non-oversampling-nos-vsAnother interesting essay how OS might harm the sound : https://www.kitsunehifi.com/nosvsos/ |
|
That is a fair comment, celander. |
Be grateful for the input you received. A lot of original posts end up without any replies.
|
Many thanks....But....I do wish that I had received more illumination on the question of comparison I raised in the OP.
C'est la vie.
|
OP: Best of luck in your search for good CD playback. |
You are one very broken record, Sir. |
"no such thing. I simply leave it an open question.
Perhaps you should too.
Many people regard it highly. Not all of the them have any financial stake in the matter. "
There is no even one single high end pure cd transport that using OS method the very few that do are cheap entry level transports and that fact saying all.
If you insist trying to match entry level transport as the Nuprime with high end Jay dac and hope to achieve good sound by doing that I wish you all the luck ... well it's your money and you can spend it as you wish. |
georgehifi:
Thanks for the heads-up on another transport with OS capability.
|
