Which transport with my Jay's Audio DAC?

Thank you, itzhak1969, for your comment.

Good advice.....
Getting a Jay's Audio Transport would be hard to get from China for a demo.... I wish that it were possible.

garrard: Did you address this question to itzhak1969?
I have not been able to demo the Jay's transport. I wish that I could.

Right, celander.

But I already made it clear in the OP that I own a Jay's Audio DAC. I don't need to "demo" one.

My OP was about a possible, yet unrealized, comparison between 1. The OSing Nuprime transport and the Jay's Audio OS-capable DAC or 2. The  NOS Jay's Audio transport and the Jay's Audio DAC in NOS mode?

That question is still outstanding. 

The answer to your question, garrard, was the whole burden of my OP:

To get some evidence-based advice from those with experience of the likely difference in overall signal quality between 1. Using an OS transport of probably lesser quality [the Nuprime] with the Jay's Audio OS-capable DAC or 2.  Using an exclusively NOS  transport of probably greater quality [the Jay's Audio transport] with the Jay's Audio DAC in NOS mode.

I like combination 1.
The question is whether combination 2. would provide a substantially better listening experience.

Interesting suggestion, itzhak1969.
Let me see if I have this right. You prefer the combination of a CD transport with no OS capability whatsoever, which feeds in turn any strictly NOS DAC.
Fine.
Does that mean that your objection is not just to the Nuprime OS capable transport, but to any transport that sends an OS signal to an OS-capable DAC?
Fine,  I guess.... though I am not sure that it answers the question I raised in the OP, which at least leaves open the possibility that OS-ing is not in itself the unmitigated folly that you now suggest.
Every taste is a taste, I suppose 

You may be correct, itzhak1969, about the superiority of the the Jay's/Jay's combination over the Nuprime/Jay's. I do wish that someone had actually heard them both, but that is a lot to ask.

As for your general point that "bits are bits," so that OS renders no improvement upon an already adequately recorded 44.1K CD, I hope that you acknowledge that that view is currently the subject of much controversy. Many commentators insist that 2 times OS-ing over a 48K signal yields real sonic improvements.

I do not know what to think.

You may well be correct, itzhak1969.

So, celander, in your comparison you did not try the OS-capability of the Nuprime transport. Too bad.

Thanks though. 

Reply to itzhak1969:

Sir, you insist [ as you have done before, and before, and {sigh} before] that... 
"Most of high end brands do not implement OS capability on their CD transports. in my opinion what Nuprime did is very unusual and totally wrong. I really don’t understand your fixation of [sic: "on"] the OS capability like it’s something good... well it’s not !"

Why the vehemence? You make it sound as though I have written  many a brief on behalf of OS transports and DACs. I have not. I am genuinely agnostic on the comparative merits of OS and NOS processing.

I read the relevant literature.... And conclude that, on that comparative question, the jury is still very much out.

I think that you have me completely wrong on this choice of whether or not to buy the Jay's Audio transport.... Given my audiophile upgrade thirst, I am positively yearning [with emphasis!] for an excuse to buy the Jay's Audio transport. However, I still have on hand an unanswered question--- despite all the many useful responses to my OP--- namely, which combination is likely to be better:
1. A putatively superior NOS transport [Jay's Audio] with an OS-capable DAC, but in strictly NOS mode [Jay's Audio], or
2. A putatively inferior OS-capable transport [Nuprime] with an OS-capable DAC, in OS mode [Jay's Audio].

No one, I mean no one, who has responded to the OP, has directly addressed THAT question. [celander has come closest.]

Gentlemen... and possibIe ladies....  I do not need to be continually dunned with any more posts about the obvious superiority of NOS over OS digital processing. I do not yet have a view....

Nor is there a consensus.Please have the grace to acknowledge that.

In the OP, I raised a specific question about any likely differences--- based on experience of the components involved-- between options 1. and 2. just noted.

May I ask that respondents stick to that issue.

I WANT to buy the Jay's Audio DAC.... I have the money here in my pocket. But, I still want to know whether the shift from an OS-capable to a strictly OS-capable transport would be a mistake.

I continue to hope for enlightenment.  

Excellent, celander,.... at last, someone with direct experience of both transports.

Can you tell me a bit more about the comparison you were able to make?

• What DAC did you use with them?
• Did you try many of the OS options [PCM and DSD] when you fed the DAC with the Nuprime?
• And this is always a hard one: could you characterize the differences you heard in going from one transport to the other and back? ...and characterize the various aspects of the sonic superiority of the Jay's Audio?

I appreciate your taking the time to offer your response to my OP.

Good listening.

Right, celander.... So maybe in conducting the comparison in question, you could have used a more apt DAC.

Ysheesh.

Sorry, Sir [itzhak1969] forgive me for saying so, but you really don't know what you are talking about in the particular terms laid out in the OP. 

The OS-capable DACs I am acquainted with and discussing here, the Jay's Audio DAC and the Denafrips Pontus, will not perform an OS conversion of an incoming digital signal sent from a transport unless that transport sends an OS signal. It's that simple.

If the Jay's DAC and Denafrips Pontus receive a 44.1K signal from the transport, they convert a 44.1K signal into an analogue signal and send that along to the preamp. If they receiv an OS-ed signal, say a 96K one, they convert a 96K signal into an analogue signal and send that along to the preamp. It really is that simple.

Yes, yes, the Jay's Audio and Denafrips OS-capable DACs have the necessary capacity to OS. [A near tautology, that.] But a necessary capacity is not a sufficient condition. They require the assistance of an OS-capable transport.

Now, there may be OS-capable DACs out there that have on-board capacity to OS an incoming 44.1K signal, say, to 96K, convert that to an analogue signal, and send that along to the preamp. I don't know about that. But the DACs under discussion here do not.

Thus my quandary.

celander:
Here's what happens when one presses the the Nuprime CDT-8's OS button [the central one on the bottom row of the remote], and then dials up to the desired PCM OS rate, say, 48K x 2 = 96K [by pressing the right button on the bottom row]... the DACs I have used, the Jay's Audio and the Denafrips Pontus, detect that OS input [PCM 96K], while registering that rate in their displays [an LED display for the Jay's, a light for the Denafrips], and then convert that rate to an analogue signal, which they then send to the preamp.

That is what happens, mutatis mutandis, for the other PCM OS rates and the DSD OS rates available on both units.

So, with all due respect, I do not know know you mean when you say that "the NuPrime CDT-8 PRO does not up sample and then down sample to the target signal rate before sending out its digital data stream to the downstream DAC."

If your Theta DAC does not have OS-capability, then, OF COURSE, it [yourTheta DAC] "confirmed that only the CDT-8 PRO output streams clocked at 44.1kHz and 48kHz would lock on the Theta DAC input receiver." That is what a NOS DAC does. But that is not what the OS-capable Jay's Audio and Denafrips DACs do when fed an OS signal from the Nuprime CDT.

I have to wonder.... Do you have some brief to write against the Nuprime DAC? Otherwise, why are you denying the obvious: It does have the capacity to send OS signals to OS-capable DACs.

Finally, I stress a point I made earlier in response to itzhak1969: I have no firm commitment to the Nuprime transport; in fact, as an audioholic, I am positively looking for an excuse to upgrade to the Jay's Audio transport.... If upgrade it would indeed be, given its lack of OS-capability.

Of course, if one has already assumed that NOS all the way is superior to OS, then the choice between transports is settled. But no one so far has given me a definitive reason to think that that is the case.

itzhak1969:
Why do you keep referring to my "wrong assumption that OS is a must to achieve good sound making"?
I assume no such thing. I simply leave it an open question.
Perhaps you should too.
Many people regard it highly. Not all of the them have any financial stake in the matter.  

georgehifi:
Thanks for the heads-up on another transport with OS capability.

You are one very broken record, Sir.

Many thanks....But....I do wish that I had received more illumination on the question of comparison I raised in the OP.

C'est la vie.

That is a fair comment, celander.

itzhak1969
That is interesting.
What are some of the DACs that have an onboard switch that allows the user to choose between OS and NOS mode, even if the incoming signal from the transport is strictly NOS?

itzhak1969:

Where is the switch on the Chord 2qute DAC that enables one to OS  an incoming NOS signal? I can't see one on any of the pictures.... and there is no reference to that NOS-OS capability in any of the reviews.

Any other DACs with the feature you claim? 

Nice Strother Martin impression, lpretiring.

Despite all the well-meaning responses to my OP, I have received precious little real help in answering my basic question, formulated and re-formulated many times...about the comparative merits of 1. A putatively lesser OS-capable transport with a very good OS- and NOS-capable DAC vs 2. A putatively superior strictly NOS transport with that same very good DAC in strictly NOS mode.

Mainly, I have received rapturous effusions about the wonders of NOS, diatribes against the very idea of OS... both despite the fact that this debate is genuinely open in the audio literature.

I have tried to get information about DACs that are capable of onboard OS-ing even if they receive a NOS signal from a strictly NOS transport. No dice there either.

Perhaps I should follow shakira's [tongue in cheek?] advice and just buy a cheap CD player.

But I continue to hope.  

Many thanks for the kind, and optimistic, word, maxima95.

No gurus, nonoise4, just experienced listeners.
Best......

celander:
Thanks for a useful post. I have compared some of the OS settings on the CDT8 with its NOS setting, feeding the Jay's DAC.... To be honest, I cannot hear a bit of difference. More listening is called for.

Just to be clear: I already own the Jay's DAC, and have so since the OP.  So, I don't have "to make the decision to buy" it.

twoleftears [great tag!]:
I have been trying to get a straight and useful answer to that question since the OP. Not much luck....
Also to the question of how many DACs there are out there that can take a NOS signal from a transport and convert it onboard into an OS signal....No luck there either.
One would think that there are answers to these two simple hardware questions..

itazhak:
The first lines of your post make absolutely no sense.
I said: "To be honest, I cannot hear a bit of difference "--- That is, no difference in a comparison bt. the OS and the NOS inputs from my transport when processed by the Jay's Audio DAC that can deal with both.

Then you say: "You said it by yourself !" 

Said what? What do you think that I said?
I said that I could not hear a difference in a comparison bt. the OS and the NOS inputs from my transport. 
That would seem to be an argument AGAINST investing a lot more money in the Jay's transport.... NOT an argument in favour of the expenditure.
If I cannot hear the difference bt an OS and a NOS input.... then why buy the strictly NOS transport?

Sir, I do think that you one very big axe to grind.... against OS.

celander:

The first line of the OP still holds: "I currently have a Nuprime CDT 8 feeding a Jay's Audio DAC."

celander:

I do think that you are missing the point. It's not about the comparative virtues or defects of OS transports per se; it's about the comparative merits and defects of OS transports when they feed an OS-capable DAC.

The two high quality DACs I am fortunate enough to have, the Jay's Audio and the Denafrips Pontus, will OS only if they are fed an OS signal from the transport. To belabour the point, if they are fed a 44.1K signal, that is what they convert to analogue.

I am not asserting that "an OS transport would improve the sound quality." I am asking whether an OS-capable transport feeding an OS-capable DAC has virtues that would be lost if that same DAC were limited in its conversion to a strictly NOS input from a strictly NOS transport.

If you are convinced that all the b other about oversampling is a waste of time and mere marketing hype [as itzhak1969 obviously does], then that settles the question raised in the OP for you, and there is not more to be said on the matter.

But I am trying to maintain an open mind about the possible sonic virtues of OS. After all, OS does have its champions in the audio world, not all of whom by any stretch have a financial stake in the matter. Now, I shall get off this site and spend some time compiling a list of them.
   

Itazhak1969:

You've made it abundantly clear that you really can't take a point; it is equally clear that you really do not understand the point of the OP.

So, I too think that we have run out of reasons to continue our exchange here.

By all means, then, let us not continue to darken each other's Audiogon Forum doors again.

celander:

That's right, Sir. I like the Jay's Audio DAC, and also the Denafrips Pontus. They stay in my system[s].
The OP was all about the choice of a transport: putatively inferior NOS- and OS-capable [Nuprime] that I already have or putatively superior strictly NOS-capable [Jay's Audio] that I am contemplating buying.

Many thanks, bigkidz, for an illuminating comparison.

Especially helpful was your association, respectively, of
.....the NOS with a kind of musicality that yields the "texture and timbre" of certain instruments, and
.....the OS with increased resolution and detail.

I shall now do another comparison of the NOS and OS outputs of the Nuprime transport with your listening impressions in mind... or in ear.

That is very illuminating, bigkidz.

Would it be possible to characterize the improvement that you detected in the OS output over the NOS output of the NANO? 

Does either the Rega or the CEC OS? That would provide a useful base of comparison with the Jay's Audio transport?  If so, the exercise would directly address my concern in the OP.

I think that Ill s__t awhile longer, thanks.

Gee thanks, pesky_wabbit, for your wise counsel.

I never imagined that it could be unwise to make "choices based on theoretical reasoning based on filtered feedback from a forum." Imagine that. You have opened my eyes.

And thank you even more for reading my mind with such devastating accuracy. I never imagined how transparent I have been in displaying my real motivation for the OP. 

Here's the thing, Sir. I have not made my mind up about anything.  There is no decision here that needs positive reinforcing. I am genuinely up in the air about what transport to settle upon, and have been seeking counsel on the matter.

Your nasty post does help.