I have owned a nice system for years, but I am hardly an audiophile. You people impress me with your depth of knowledge of audio. I've been following this site for some time. This is my first post. From time to time I replace or upgrade components. I've got a tricked out Linn Sondek LP 12 turntable. I recently acquired a McIntosh MP 100 phono amp and am hearing LP's now that exceed anything I've heard on CD's and equal if not exceed the output of my SACD's. I bring this up only to give a flavor of what I listen to. The issue is as follows: I have a McIntosh MC 206 Amp that I bought in 2003 that puts out 200 watts per channel. I have no issues with it, although I've never had anything to compare it with. I've read some impressive reviews of how much of a difference an amplifier can make to the quality of sound output. For speakers I have Magnepan 3.6R's that I also bought in 2003. I love them. I can only afford to upgrade one at a time - let's say in the neighborhood of 10 - 12K. So, I'd like to hear what this august body has to say about which I should upgrade first and why? The amp or the speakers? Thank you.
Dear @normantaylor: "
There are no treatments to my living room where the system is -... " and you said that you will move/change home pretty soon.
I think that you have to wait till you live in your new home before asking for anything.
In ththese two treads you started put many people " to work " trying to help you but never disclosed rigth when you started the threads those two importaNTS PARAMETERS i POSTED HERE THAT AFFECTS ANYTHING YOU CAN DO IT ABOUT AND EACH ONE OF US ADVISES. PITY.
In the other side a show is exactly that a manufacturer/dealers show. Where we can see many system ranging from peanuts prices to over 500K audio systems but you can't really learn down there other that come back to your home with more questions than answers. Other issue is that what you listen is in a show conditions where some rooms even with very good surrounded items are and sound awful and other roomssounds good. Perhaps the most important experience in a show is to meet other audiophiles and sometimes the designers of audio items and that's all.
Don't worry about the double listing; others do this at times. Your rationale is correct, there are some who spend time in one forum and do not in others. No big deal. You are casting the net as wide as possible.
Yes. My first post. I thought it was a different audience for the different categories. No? Let's assume it is not. How would one go about consolidating? Is there a harm I am unaware of by listing it in more than one category?
normantaylor, frankly, the loss of a deal in the near term is sometimes the best thing that can happen long term.
You expressed desire to attend a show. If you have never been to a show, that will thrill you in terms of opening your eyes to the vast potential for revising your rig! I strongly encourage you to wait until you can get to a show or two. There is nothing like it to build a portfolio of items to consider for an upgrade. It's also a great way to socialize with others who have the same passion for music.
normantaylor, you are demonstrating wisdom and tactfulness. Kudos.
Don't worry much about deals that slip by; imo far more important to have agreement with the wife. There is gear all over the place and many ways to get an upgrade. :)
Dear Schroeder and Tweak Both of you are behemoths in audio, and I value what you both have to say. The combination of science with art and the senses produces so many variables in audio that it truly makes for a remarkable playground. I thank you both.
cd318 Thanks. You are kind. I do love Maggies. I think I'll go to shows and see what else brings me closer to the music without totally busting the bank.
rauliegas I'm embarrassed to say they slipped through my fingers. I ran into the wife issue in pulling the trigger. And, I was very excited about both - seriously. I'm keeping my eyes open and massaging the spouse line in the meantime.
Dear @normantaylor : Do you bougth the Magnepan 20.7 that I linked to you? because I go to that site and the speakers already sold. Great speakers at truly low price second hand.
and what about those Parasound JC-1 monobloks that I linked to paired those 20.7s?
Speakers/amps at an almost inside your budget range ! ! !
I have been involved in hi-end audio for 40+ years, including owning a hi-end store.
More importantly, I had experiences with multiple speakers and amps, and cited actual experience having owned Maggies and trying 3 different amps before getting the EVS 1200, which transformed them
You do realize that is what the "YMMV" is for. As I fundamentally disagree with your perspective that his best move is the amp, and you have neither divine guidance, nor scientific certainty on your opinion, you could have added the same to your post. :)
These are excellent speakers but very fussy about the amp driving them I first experienced this when I has Genesis Vs some 15 years ago. I tired several amps before getting a KBA 75, which grabbed them by the balls, and made them perform up to their glowing reviews said.
Of late, I had 3 different class D amps prior to getting the EVS 1200, which similarly brought a whole new appreciation for my speakers
The solution is quite simple; speakers first. The reason is that should you upgrade the amp you will only see a different flavor of the current speaker's performance. However, should you upgrade the speakers to a different genre, ie. horn hybrid, you will have made a sea change in the system that no amp can duplicate.
Do not overlook changing genres of speakers. Maggies are lovely for certain aspects of sound reproduction, but they are also weaker in other areas; I know whereof I speak as a former Maggie owner and reviewer. Different genres of speakers, such as the aforementioned horn hybrids, can do things such as dynamics that shame even mid-size maggies. You owe it to yourself to hear some of these other speakers. If you wish to discuss any of the speakers I show on my system here, or have reviewed for Dagogo.com, feel free to contact me.
I am currently reviewing a full range hybrid speaker that has similar capacity in terms of definition retrieval to a panel, but has capabilities in terms of dynamics that far outstrip Magnepan, and even the Kingsound King III ESL speakers. I suggest that you do not let use/non-use of the subwoofer be a determinant in what direction you go in terms of speaker. Having worked with subs often I would not let them be the determinant of what kind of speaker I would select.
Further, you may still enjoy the amp with the new speakers and feel contented that you do not need to upgrade it. Having been through such things many times, I believe that if you upgrade the amp first, you will soon be itching to upgrade speakers, too, and will ensure potentially spending far more on the project than you have to.
Finally, perhaps you are one of the few, the abundantly blessed with $ and space to have it all. Perhaps you can keep the Maggies AND add a new speaker of a different genre. Trust me, this is a sensational way to participate in the hobby, a literal form of having it all. The means of being able to flip speakers and hear a rig fundamentally differently at will is a fantastic form of variety imo not to be missed if one has the means.
As an X maggie owner 3.5Rs, I do not believe they are your weak link. An incredible amp that should knock your socks off with them or just about any other speaker is Ric Schultz EVS 1200. I have a Agon thread if you care to investigate. I wish I had this amp when I had the 3.5Rs
I tried to power Maggie 1.7's with a Mac integrated 6300 at 100 wpc and it was bland. I tried a Krell 300Si at 150 wpc and it regularly shut down because it could not handle the panels.
I powered Maggie 3.6's with a W4S ST 1000 (500 wpc) and it played loud but did not control the panels. I switched to a Coda amp at 300 wpc and it was much, much better. I added a Magnepan bass panels and then gave up.
I switched to Thiels (3.6's and then 5.0's). Just better bass and heft to my ear.
If you like the Maggies, get a strong amp that doubles down.
I’m with Mozartfan...speakers make the system. Easily proven. A great set of speakers (and a good room) fed from a ok mid fi CD player will still sound very good. You can’t fix crap speakers with a great front end. All of this of course in my opinion only.
A bad speaker can sound Ok with great equiptment. A great speaker will not sound great with inferior equiptment. Give the speaker the best signal you can and then upgrade the speaker.
Start farthest away from the speaker. Dedicated power lines. One for the amplifier and one for the rest. Power conditioning. Really good power cords and interconnects. Then the amplifier first.
I have Pass XA60.8's on my 3.7i's and they sound wonderful, bought them both used. I was worried about not having enough power but I am over ear splitting volumes. My room is over 20 x 20 and I dont appreciate any clipping or unpleasantness at the highest volume I am comfortable listening to. I had a Class D with over 1000 watts at 4 ohms, it made the walls shake but the musicality falls apart at loud volumes. I have a dedicated power line for each monoblock. Purchases used Wywire Platinum power cords for the amps and pre-amp another nice bump in Sound Quality. As Ivor at Linn would say "garbage in equals garbage out"
Norman, I sounds to me like you qualify as being an Audiophile. Anyway, I think you need to set yourself a target system then go for the pieces of the puzzle when appropriate deals arise. The 20.7s with the Parasound JC-1 is a killer system but the JC-1 is no longer available new. I think something like this is an ideal target. You can afford the 20.7s if you sell or trade in the 3.6's to a dealer that is willing to deal and they will especially if they know you will be spending like money on an amp down the line. Macs are great amps but IMHO not the best for Maggies. Now JC-1s were extremely popular and with good reason. They do come up on the used market frequently or you could wait untl Parasound comes up with a replacement. John Curl says they absolutely will. 20.7 come up but not that frequently. You will have to spend a lot more on an amp to get one as good or better like a Pass XA200.8 for $42K!
You can have the finest musical amp ever made, cost no factor, say $1,000000000000000, and if you have 2 cent speakers,,the $1M amp will sound like a ,..,,,~~~2 cent amp~~~, go figure The Honest Review Guy has spoken.
Well, if you want to stay with the Maggie sound however want to improve on the dynamics and transparency, then I would go for an amplifier that will better provide that over the Mac. You could continue up the Maggie line later. It really depends on what changes are desired.
I find this one a 'toughie' as both components are top notch pieces of equipment. For me, if I love the Maggie sound (and I do), I would keep them. The Mac amp has plenty of power and perhaps another amp might yield a different sound, but I would suggest going for a different preamp-which you haven't mentioned. I find preamps can impart a significant impact in speaker performance. Bob
It’s hard to say it’s the speaker or the amp. One has to determine the bottleneck of one’s system. Everybody’s system is a bit different.
Personally I am not a big fan of Maggies. I think they do well in certain aspects, but I don’t think they have the transparency of some of the more conventional speakers.
But judging from your system, it's probably the speakers are the bottleneck. If you like the "big" sound of the Maggies, would you consider "line array"?
Thank you folks for the responses. Yoby - I actually have an REL subwoofer already. It's a great compliment to my maggies. raulruegas - Funny you posted that link. I was seriously looking at that very post when I posed the question of which to upgrade first - the speaker or the amp.
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