Which Nakamichi to choose?

There is more than just losing highs with dolby - sound loses fullness. Tape hiss is inevitable but can be minimized, you do need excellent deck and tapes for that. Besides, almost all older recordings have tape hiss to various degree.

I had cassettes in the "old" days and if I used dolby the highs were gone and if I didn't there was tape hiss. I wouldn't go back. As far as cd's and vinyl, the only formats I run other than streaming, some are good quality and some not so much. I would hesitate to say any one format was better than another.

uberwaltz, if the same recording sounds as good on your Nak as it does on your Nottingham, something is not quite right. There are a few possibilities.
I have the same turntable, better Nak, top tape and probably better cables, and it does not overall sound as good as the turntable, though the tape is more coherent and smooth. Biggest differences are dynamics and soundstage - Nak cannot compete, though it does both quite well, for a cassette. You really need good open reel deck to compete with your Nottingham. I would also suggest trying fuller sounding cables, Nordost is not famous for that.

Because cassettes are relatively light when I moved from Blighty to the USA I shipped all my tapes here but gave away the vinyl and cds.
And our LRS sells loads of cassettes as well as vinyl.
I might even have more tapes than cds right now.
In fact I was playing a Bulgarian issue tape today on the Nak.

Jeez,so much angst!
I nearly passed on this after reading "gilding a turd" how ignorant!

Nakamichi 582 in my main rig .

With the right recordings they do sound as good as my vinyl.
Of course bad recordings suck.
But that is true of vinyl, CD etc too.

Sure the medium has its faults, the bigger decks do require more maintenance than say a CD player but it is far from a dead medium imho.

I dug out a demo tape from my band from 1989 and ran it on the nak, sounded pretty darn good to me! So that’s what near 30 year old tape?

This is the deck  I have presently;


        https://kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/tc-ka3es.htm

But since I have a Technics 2 track reel, I only play the deck to make sure it's working properly.

My 2 favorites from yesteryear were the CR-7A and the BX-300.

melbguyone,

I recognize that there are probably decks that rival the performance of the Nakamichi cassette decks. I recall seeing a Tandberg 3014 at a stereo store decades ago and wondering how it sounded. I never sat down to listen and I can only speak to decks I have owned. Also, I have owned Nak amps, preamps, tuner and CD player (OMS 7). I once took home a Nakamichi Dragon CD player and DAC. I decided that I had too much stereo equipment and returned it. My mistake! I am very comfortable recommending Nakamichi cassette decks, and accept that there are many other decks worth considering.

“I’ll wait for some high end company to release a new high end 3-head deck with the latest technology.”

Sounds good, but don’t hold your breath. Save yourself a lot of angst and just buy a Nakamichi. I recommend the Dragon, CR-7A, RX-505 and ZX-9, as those are the ones I have owned. I only have the RX-505 now, and I sincerely regret selling any of them. I only let them go because I didn’t want to end up on “Hoarders.” (LOL)

I don’t get all the angst and hand wringing regarding expensive cassette decks. I have many Sony and Aiwa portable Cassette players in perfect working order. I even have the Sony Professional Portable Cassette Player. These players can be obtained on eBay. I also have a collection of hundreds of cassettes obtained from multiple sources including Mercury Living Presence, Japanese cassettes, digitally remastered cassettes, everything from Woodstock to AC/DC to Zeppelin to New Order to Heifetz. Grado SR80 headphones. Tape is a natural medium. It breathes. Dynamic, full, musical. Where’s the beef? 🍔

Sure getting a Nak Dragon would be great but get ready to pay 2-3 thousand.Just like 4 years ago cassette decks were selling cheap....now there going up,up,up....its nuts.I own a few cassette decks Pioneer,Sony Rx79es,Nak cr3,Axai gxm10,teac v9,Harmon Karmon td 392,another Nak n HK but there in attic .Nothing top of the line but all work .i bought a box of cassettes from a guy like 4 years ago about 100 cassette 30 pre and the rest he recorded well this guy did a great job ,they sound fantastic .Back in the day you borrowed an album and recorded it or recorded it yourself.

glupson
Problem solved was still a problem

Only in the mind of Mencia, string bean.

Back in the late 90s I used to go into Gifted Listener Audio in Centreville VA and just stand there and ogle the Tandberg 3014 they had on display. I even dragged my buddy in to ogle it with me once. Whatever they wanted for it was far beyond my means back then but dear lord that thing was a Deadheads wet dream of a deck!

On the 3004 there  was a 100 or less made. It came before the other tandbergs. Stay away from the 3034. 

From what i have read on tbe internet there were 200 910s made and 100 911s which were (warning) playback only. There were 4000 3014s/3014a's made. There were 40,000 Dragons made during its around 10 year run from 82 to 93.im going by memory here.

The Tandberg TCD910 would be great but they are rare. What about the 3004?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tandberg-3004-Vintage-Cassette-Deck-Near-Mint-Condition-for-parts/123311638...

Aiwa also made some good decks I hear.

Problem solved was still a problem.

I see this tape post with this much attention shows a renewed interest in the medium. Lets have "Guardians of tbe Galaxy" 3 !!! 

Sony Walkmans (Walkmen) are so cheap second hand if one doesn’t work or sound good just throw it away. The ones that sound good are the keepers. Problem solved, gloopy.

"Nothing wrong with the Sony Walkman portable Cassette players as far as I can tell. "

They had a weak spot in that connecting film between two parts (the one that cassette goes in and the one that closes it). I guess "interconnect" would be the closest name for it.

In the U.S.A. warranty was 90 days for labor and parts were six months. You ended up paying $45 for repair while they gave you $1 part free under warranty. Otherwise, nice machines.

I have one and it's excellent. It is broke at the moment however. The recordings were super clean. Costing $800 less than a dragon it's a great bargain. I'm getting mine fixed.

Not to get too far off topic here, but anyone have experience way back then with the Harmon Kardon CD-491 deck?   Not that it was a direct competitor to the Dragon, but it was pretty well-regarded, if memory serves.   I still have mine, I keep bouncing back & forth between keeping it & selling it (only because I haven't listened to a cassette in years).

jim

Many thanks to all for the good advices. To answer in general to some comments, no I am not a novice to tape but just happened in this ever digital and stream-groing world to have refound deep appreciation for music being stored on a physical medium.
I happened to have made tons of mix tapes. The work that goes in it, the time but to so gratifying result from it has drawn me back to cassette decks.
In the meantime I have purchased one of the two. It has become the Cassettedeck 1 and I must say I am impressed. So is my wife, who comes from a different generation having grown up making CD-R and minidisc compilations, she thought the music source I was playing from was digital. Big kudos for the Nak. And once again, thanks to all for the wonderful advice.

Too much angst and complexity with the big decks. Nothing wrong with the Sony Walkman portable Cassette players as far as I can tell. No power cords, no interconnects, no fuses, no transformers. Tape is a natural medium. It breaths. Dynamic, sweet and airy.

I admit I am fond of the Nakamichi Dragon CD System, though, what with the vacuum surrounding the CD whilst spinning.

 Let’s not forget that Nakamichi decks even now hold a good value if serviced by the previous owner. Some of the models mentioned in this thread are rare and very expensive to buy if well maintained by previous owner.  If you want a good Nak deck which records good and sounds good for playback consider the BX-300. It does not have the remotely controlled Azimuth adjustment like CR-7A but it sounds very close to it and its specs are very similar to CR-7A. You can find it more easily in good condition for $200-$300. 

Inna, you're right about Willy Hermann. He specializes in aligning decks to work better than new. He worked on four of mine and he is amazing. I'm not sure how quickly he turns work around but it was usually only a couple of weeks, but I picked the units up each time. I still have an RX-505 and it works like new (maybe better). I sold my ZX-9 about a year ago, along with 2000 cassettes and box sets, for more than $2000. I regret selling it. One of my first Nakamichi decks was a CR-7A, and I really regret selling it. I still have a few hundred cassettes and I really like listening to them, always without Dolby. It seems to limit the highs.

inna

On another note, Willy really upset me last time ... next time I am not sure I will ship the deck to him, maybe to Soundsmith.

Wow. You don't like Willy. You don't like ES Labs. If you're not nice to Soundsmith, you risk running out of competent techs for your tape decks. BTW, Soundsmith service is pricey. You might want to know that before you call them and tell them to go to hell, too. They are worth it, though. But I expect to pay good money for expert service.

You are most welcome, just please don't ask for more. On another note, Willy really upset me last time. He now ships only UPS Ground, though I asked him to ship USPS Priority. He refused, for whatever reason but not for the reason of cost because I of course was going to pay for it. As a result of it, my deck in the original box and well double-boxed was lucky to survive coast to coast ride. I got a big hole punched thru the outer box and three more big hits. I conveyed to him my thoughts after that, and I didn't tell him to go to hell, but next time I am not sure I will ship the deck to him, maybe to Soundsmith. But perhaps Willy has changed this since I last spoke to him in September, I don't know. Years ago he would ship USPS on request, no problem, though he mostly used to use FedEX Ground. I have never had any problem with USPS Priority, not even close.

teo_audio

I think that today is just ....one of those days.

I actually feel sorry for these people. They can't possibly be happy.

I think that today is just ....one of those days.

Someone managed to get me to be negative toward them on another forum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48PJGVf4xqk

Thanks, @inna and @clearthink for your warm and kind words. 

inna"cleeds, you are stupid and bad-mannered. Go to hell too."

Inna you are so right cleeds is a blight, a boil, a bleeding, oozing hemorrhoid on this site with nothing to contribute, suggest or advice he is not even an audiophile I believe he is a mentally deranged person who can survive only based on a daily regimen of specifically prescribed medicines and even then he seems barely able to properly communicate, relate or engage in exchange with other the members of this site and I applaud, congratulate and honor you for so bravely expressing what many hear prefer not to acknowledge, accept, or understand about this useless, pathetic, pitiful waste of a human being.

Even the lowly CR-1A is not to be sneezed at.

Yes, Tandberg 3014 and 3014A or Nakamichi 1000ZXL would be my choice. I would not pay too much for the ZX-9, and it costs a lot.

I have the 3014a in top notch shape. Its more fuller sounding with discrete circuits than the Nak. The Nak tapes did seem to have more punch in my portables however.

The ZX9 was Nakamichi's reference deck when it came out after the Dragon.

Tandberg 3014A.

If you have many cassettes like i do some are live recordings a Nak Deck is worth the investment.
Out of the decks mentioned i would go for the DR-1 simply because it has more adjustment options.
i have owned a Nak 550 battery powered portable.
It was a great deck and ahead of its time.
i made many live recordings of my band and they always came out great.
However in my opinion The Nak ZX9 was the best deck ever made.
It was very adjustable and built like a tank.
That would be my choice.

inna

... His 'overhaul' is not at all ES Labs overhaul who literally completely disassemble and reassemble decks and claim to make them like new or better. But they charge thousands, so I told them to go to hell.

Really? You tell people to go to hell if you don't like their price? I'd say ES Labs is fortunate to not have you as a customer.

I think, he now does only overhauls if it is the first time that he works on your deck. His 'overhaul' is not at all ES Labs overhaul who literally completely disassemble and reassemble decks and claim to make them like new or better. But they charge thousands, so I told them to go to hell. Willy does what needs to be done and tests everything in the process. I paid something like $650 the first time and about $350 second and third times. The wait time is a few months, at least it was last year.

inna,

Thanks for mentioning Willy Hermann. Just enough info to link me to what I have been thinking about for years. Thanks again.

I use Nak 682ZX on a weekly basis and send it to Willy Hermann for service every five years. It also has custom transformer and $1500 interconnects to pass the signal to the amp.
No, it does not sound as good as Nottingham Spacedeck turntable. And I use only the best tape there is - Maxell Metal Vertex. But it does sound very very good. I used to use Dolby B from time to time but no longer - more disadvantages than advantages.
I suggest paying more and getting 680ZX, 682ZX or ZX-7. My preference would be 682ZX, but it is rare and more expensive.
I started another thread regarding tape some time ago. For me nothing sounds quite like tape. My Studer reel-to-reel project is on hold but I'll get there in time.

Great info, @cleeds . And the term archive is a misnomer. My plan was to make high quality copies of albums that can be listened to without the time and effort of playing vinyl.
  I agree that R-R is an amazing format even today, but requires money, time, and a relationship with a good tech for use in a home system. I enjoy the setup and recording process. Then comes the satisfaction of sitting back and listening to some outstanding music.   
   For me, there's no other format that sounds so pure and organic.

@cleeds 

"Tape most certainly does degrade."

Quite correct. What I should have said is that saving vinyl to tape, and playing tape until it degrades, gets you thousands of plays before degradation. Sorry to be inaccurate.

And I agree, half track at 15 ips is the standard - but it sure is expensive!

I'm a serious tapehead and with a good tape and a machine serviced with a good tech and you have nothing short of magic.

terry9

Not an archival medium? Depends. Cheap stuff, 120 minutes, agreed. Metal Type 4, 60 minutes duration, absolutely disagree.

The facts speak for themselves. You can’t get flat frequency response to 20K on cassette at 0 dB - when cassette manufacturers cited FR specs, it was typically at -20dB.

I have tapes made 20 years ago that sound fine.

Me too!

Tapes don’t degrade; vinyl does, at least on most real-world systems.

Tape most certainly does degrade. For example, where do you think that gunk comes from that must be cleaned from your tape heads, capstan and tape guides? A well-cared for LP will last for generations. Of course, they have to be stored properly, and played properly - but the same is true of tape. I have some LPs that date to the early 60s, and they play like new.

In any event, if you want to be serious about analog tape, reel-to-reel is the way to go.