What would you do if you bought a amp from supposedly reputable dealer and found out a year and a half later it wasnt the amp you bought at all but one of a totally different serial number and ? Wouldnt you think the dealer would know sometimes in that time period they sold the wrong amp to you? I the consumer am only buying one item if he has several amps similar he logs them by serial number therefore he knew he sold the wrong amp but said nothing, how is that even legal? it's a sad day when you cant trust the dealers on audiogon.
Get the CAD 120's. Its better than any of the V models. Make sure to put tubes in it before playing it, and whatever you do, check those F'N serial numbers!
Facten, you should understand that I had no idea which dealer 52tiger was refering to in his thread until you mentioned this dealers name in your post. Further investigation out of curiosity would reveal this dealers name in another thread. Trust me, if you were to start a thread with the subject matter on who has been burned on audio purchases, I'm sure everyone has a story of some sort.
I have personally done business with Kevin Deal in the past and I can tell you he is very professional and honest.
You know what I like about Kevin Deal, he's got the balls to come on a forum like this and defend himself when he thinks he has been unnecessarily abused. Somewhat rare. That, if nothing else, seperates him from the herd. He doesn't seem to like 'freeloaders" or idiots either, but that wouldn't stop me from dealing with him if he has something I need to buy. I don't call him for free advise though. :-)
Solid response from the dealer - "And know you know the REST of the story," as Paul Harvey used to say. It seems that the purchaser did in fact receive the benefit of his bargain and that Kevin doesn't owe him squat.
Going forward, I would only suggest Kevin follow up with Cary on the serial number provided by the purchaser, if for no other reason than to see if something did in fact go awry in terms of his company's tracking of inventory.
What 52tiger should have done has been made very clear at this point. What I suggest you do now is talk to Kevin Deal and not one of his employees if you have not done so already. If Kevin told you that it was too late to do anything about it I would call Cary and see if there is anything they can do about it.
The amp should still be under warranty if you bought it new. If you registered it with Cary I assume the warranty card would have the serial number on it and it would not match the serial number on your receipt. If they are both dated within 90 days of one another, I think Cary would want to straighten the matter out.
If neither Kevin nor Cary are interested then you have to take the hit and learn from it. I doubt the police want to get involved.
This guy posted the same thread to several forums. Shame on him.
As the owner of Upscale Audio, I spoke to this fellow yesterday. Let me make a few points:
A: He bought it over a year and a half ago. He needed to contact us in a reasonable time.
B: The unit serial number he has I have no record of owning, buying, shipping, whatever. Having said that, maybe we screwed the pooch and made a mistake.
C: The unit he bought and paid for had damage, having a dented transformer cover. It was discounted and priced as a damaged unit. It evens said that on our used listing which is copied directly onto his invoice. He fails to tell you this. What he received is mint. He conveniently leaves this out.
D: Check the Audiogon bluebook, and the V12 and V12i are not even listed seperate. They retail the same and share the same listing on the bluebook value. Why? They have the same topology. The V12i used a front end tube with less gain, making it harder to drive. This was changed back when the V12i became the V12R.
We have thrived over these last 17 years and enjoy a pretty good reputation. We're the largest tube dealer in the nation. We stock ten times more gear than most dealers. But when you deal with tens of thousands of customers, you will for sure either make mistakes or deal with the unreasonable.
I buy and sell quite often on ebay and you should always use a credit card tied to paypal. You could have gotten a full refund. In fact, ebay sides up way too much with the buyer. A few years ago I paid for a full set of Walking Liberty half dollars and received 2 full sets 1200 per set by accident. I called the dealer and asked them to pay the shipping cost for the return of the 2nd set. A few days after I returned the 2nd set, the dealer sent me a thank you letter and a check for 500.00
The old bait and switch or maybe the shipping department made the error of sending you the wrong amp. I would expect better from a dealer and its too bad it took over a year to discover.
A few years back and reluctantly I purchased an Aragon 4004 MKII off EBAY. After receiving the amp I noticed the MKII sticker was not on the back of the amp. Contacted the seller and he said the sticker had fallen off a while back. I determined later it was not the MKII but I was charged the higher price for the this version. I have not made any more purchases on EBAY. "The EBAY gang rides again!"
Not dealer's problem - yours. You should have verified when you received the amp and discussed with the dealer then. Not now. Sorry, way too late. Dealers are people too. People make mistakes. Bring it to their attention within a reasonable time frame (1.5 years is not reasonable; more like within a few days of receiving the piece) and give them a chance to resolve.
Had you done this 1.5 years ago and the dealer not resolve, only then would I consider the dealer a dirty player.
But wait, there's more! Check out the pic in this ad for a Cary SAs80 V-12: http://new.audiogon.com/listings/5592
Now see the pic in this ad of a Cary SA280 V-12i: http://new.audiogon.com/listings/32288
Serial numbers aside, how could this guy not know what amp he had when its model designation was written right on the front of it - and also on the cover of the owner's manual?
You are going to need a lot more proof to paint Upscale audio as anything but a A+ dealer. What did Kevin say when you called him, that's all that matters.
Several years ago I bought a blemished (B stock) record cleaner from him at a discount. When i drove out to his shop to pick it up, his staff couldnt find the B stock item so they sold me an A stock at the same price.
Sorry but just a little confused. Who buys amps based on a serial number? Every piece of equipment that I have bought new was by a model number; not serial number. If the carton was sealed, good enough for me. The only time I could see this being important is if you were buying a used amp and there were two identical ones out of their boxes that you auditioned. You liked one better than the other, picked it, and the serial number was the only way to differentiate between the two. Was this the case? Was it a used purchase? I cannot imagine in a new purchase a serial number would matter as long as you got the right model you were purchasing. Am I wrong? If so, can someone tell me why?
It would be nice if you put all 3 of your post into one detailed post.
One and half years ago you bought a Cary V12i from Upscale Audio as per your sales receipt.
Fast forward to today. You want to sell your Cary V12 and you discover that it is fact the previous generation Cary V12 without the I inspired circuit.
A year and half is a long time. Who is say that you didnt sell your V12i and trying to scam Upscale with a story about an older V12? Not saying this is the case, but you must respect the retailers perspective. Ideally, Upscale will have both serial numbers in their inventory and can figure out what happened.
Upscale Audio is a respected dealer. I have bought equipment from Kevin and would recommend him to others. There is always two sides to every story. Good luck.
This is the 3rd post on this subject in 2 days. I have known Upscale Audio to be a fair and honest business. I recommend you discuss your complaint with Kevin.
Checks should have been done as soon as the amp was received. I don't think your friend has a leg to stand on since it has been over 1 year. Some high volume dealers may mix stuff up but most of the time if they deal in high volume they have good inventory control.
Also as long as they got a Cary v12i amp and not a totally different amp then what is wrong if the serial numbers are different? Is each Cary amp customized or is this amp a collectors item where having a lower number from the run matters? I'm just confused as to how the serial numbers would really matter in this situation.
Your friend could try to talk to Upscale Audio but even then what can they do? The other Cary v12i with the serial # might have been sold already. It has also been over a year.
I think your friend may just have to enjoy the amp he has.
I'm curious as to what Kevin said when you brought this to his attention. I've been a customer for many years and have had 100% positive experience with him, so I'd be more than a bit surprised if he hasn't been responsive to you. Did he have an explanation (maybe one that was unsatisfactory)?
Of course you should bring it to their attention. It Maybe an honest mistake. But Not sure it really matters? If you wanted a Cary v12i amp, and got one-why does it matter if the serial number is different from the serial number on the v12i amp you wanted-was there a difference? It sucks when we dont get what we paid for...
I can tell what I wouldn't do, which is to start three threads on the same subject.
Beyond that, you need to provide more info as Tpreaves suggests. How is this the wrong amp? Is it simply a matter of the wrong serial number being transcribed on the receipt? Or two amps of the same model being misboxed?
And if the same model amp is involved, how is your friend being harmed by this? Has the dealer refused warranty service or otherwise refused to address any issue beyond the serial number? Is the amp new or used?
No one can give provide any meaningful advice until you provide more information.
A V12 is marked V12. V12I is marked with an I and a V12R is marked with an R. How did you and/or your friend not know for a year and a half? No one looked at the serial numbers or the faceplate? It's probably too late to do anything now, but maybe you could get them to spring for an upgrade to a V12R. They're a very nice amp, but run very hot. I'm just not sure how the consumer and the seller both dropped the ball. Best of luck.
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