Warner and Blu ray?

Looks like the DVD-HD format is a few steps closer to the grave. Warner was the only one that was supporting both.
The local dealer tells me that they sell BR on a 20:1 against HD DVD.
I am just waiting for Denon to release their player before I jump.

Yes. I thought I would buy a HD DVD player and went to circuit city and Compusa. Nope.

Blu-Ray is what they had.

The HD-DVD camp just canceled their press conference at CES 2008. They are really mad at Warner comments and are inplying legal problems... Warner has 20% of the market share and their announcement gave a new turn to the so called "format war"... Now let see how the market will react, if the hardware drops in price and the titles increase rapidly.

Theo...Denon announced a $2,000 and a $1,200 units available in January/08. I believe they will be showed at CES..

Well, I was a HDDVD early adopter due to BR being way too expensive at the time. I've really enjoyed being able to view a decent number and variety of movies via my $400 initial investment.

But I've kind of felt for the last year or so that BR was going to prevail because too many of the big name consumer electronics companies supported BR and its more proprietary qualities. I really dislike how Sony is always trying to release some kind of proprietary technology and force you to pay all kinds of money to use their stuff. Example, Memory Stick. They couln't just use Compact Flash or SD cards like everybody else.

In light of this development, will I be purchasing a BR player anytime soon? Probably not.

First, I feel like they were manipulative and deceptive in the days when HDDVD was beating them to the market, and I don't want to reward them anytime soon for that behavior.

Second, I'm content to continue to watch the available HDDVDs, and just rent the BR only titles on standard DVD. I spent all the money I am willing to spend on an HD format for some time to come.

With me, BR will just have to wait, probably a year or so.

Well I am glad I went Blu-ray - I have about 30 discs already and I was not happy about chucking these away if HD-DVD won.

I wonder what Rysa thinks - he works for Toshiba and they will be very unhappy about this and may have a different story or viewpoint. (two sides to every story)

I can't blame the companies for wanting to end this war as it is was noticeable in my local HMV store....the multiple formats are eating up shelf space - they had DVD's, Hd-DVD's and Blu-Rays piled waste high on the floor! The industry needs to reduce formats so retailers can cope with offering variety on their shelves rather than duplicate formats.

My gut feel is that "harder to manufacture" and more copy right protected Blu-ray is a benefit as it may delay the inevitable onset of piracy. I am a consumer but I hate piracy as it undermines quality when media companies do not get paid for their hard work. I realize both formats worked equally well but I went Blu-Ray based on content. Now I look forward to getting the three or four titles that were only on HD-DVD that I could not buy.

Why buy a format that ONLY does 1080i?
Think of it that way.
1080p is ALOT better!
Right now, I don`t have either of them.
I`M waiting for
BLU-RAY RECORDERS!!!!!

I have a toshiba HD-DVD and it works as good as any blu-ray would in my system. I haven't used it. Everytime I go to watch a movie I never get past the turntable and end up playing an LP or two instead. So, if your like me you are immune to the format wars. That is until they come up with HD-LP or Blu-spin high definition records that need dedicated turntables. Then we will know that the sky is falling.

Onkyodude, as a fyi, there are HD-DVD players that do 1080p.

That's too bad that they are joining the Blue ray camp.
HD DVD has announced that they have cancelled their booth at CES. Bad idea, this is like throwing in the towel.
With no competition what will happen to the prices of players and software let alone the driving force for better picture quality.
The upconverting of SD DVD's with the Toshiba XA2 is better than than the Blue rays that I have had. They include the Samsung, Pioneer, and Sony.
Now Paramount stands alone in the manufacturing of HD DVD.
I will still support and buy the the HD DVD copies but for how long ?

I bought HD- early on,then latter bought the bluray. I only own one disc of each format and rent what I watch. I could easily see,early on Sony would be the ruler. They spend more for advertising and now one more studio in their camp doesn't help HD- 's cause. I just wish they would finalise the discs for audio and video so one could play the damm discs without another firmware update.

LA Times this morning declared the format wars over in favor of Blu-Ray. According to the handy dandy chart provided, with the addition of Warner BluRay now has 75% of all the studio content

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/homeentertainment/la-fi-dvd5jan05,1,3370348.story?coll=la-entnews-homeent&ctrack=4&cset=true

Word on the street is the hackers have already cracked Blu-ray but there is no way to efficiently move that much data on the Internet ... what’s the point if it's going to be compressed into Xvid or DivxX? I suppose they did it just to take a whack at Sony's copy protection. No question it will be cracked and copied but only when it's the dominant force and DVD releases are no longer available. Part of my job is managing the computer labs at a mid sized college. I have had a few deviant young employees over the last few years and I seem to get a lot of info out of that group. Most of the computer geek kids come to me for work ... the whole copyright theft issue really sickens me at times. I have argued with these kids and there seems to be a real attitude that copyrighted material is FREE. We had to take extreme proactive measures to keep the college out of trouble with this issue. Time after time they found ways around it - I got fed up with being nice. We have a philosophy where I work, that the students are our customers and I try hard not to limit content. We ended up throttling certain notorious protocols down to the absolute minimum. They can load a bit torrent client or Limewire but it will take a week to get a single track or large file. If you get caught – you get booted. Forget stealing movies.

This much is for sure; whatever format gets selected it will be cracked and copyrighted material will be available for free. When the Blu-ray burners (or some other 25-50 gig capacity format disc) are available cheap for the PC and Mac – look out. I think you can get them for about $800 right now. The Blu-Ray players might be able to temporarily stop the piracy but my guess is the pirates will just convert formats and stream a high definition feed through a PC or Mac right to their TV. I’m no format expert but wouldn’t it be interesting if the HD-DVD format concentrated on the computer market and created really cheap burners. Could they possibly dominate the computer market? Drop the price to $150 for a writer and mass market the media at 50 cents a disc? Dump all the copy protection stuff and just go for mass storage. From a computer person’s point of view I would sure like to see cheap 50 gig archival storage on a single disc costing less than a buck.

Am I way off base ?

*
I really don't care either way, as long as they keep making standard def dvd's. I prefer the 4:3 aspect ratio of the standard def discs for my movie screen. All of the hi-def discs that I've viewed are in the "letterbox" type aspect ratio. I personally like the upconverted standard discs in 4:3, that way I get much more screen area in a hi-def picture. The movie is much more immersive that way.

My Toshiba HD-XA2 does a killer job of upconverting the standard discs. I don't even buy or rent hd discs...because they don't play in 4:3. The upconverted standard picture I get is stunning in 4:3 on my 12 foot by 16 foot screen.
*

"South43":

It looks like Warner Brothers has swayed my decision as well. I was waiting for the longest time as to which way was I going to go (either HD-DVD or Blue-Ray). And now, it looks like that later on this year, Blue-Ray will apparently win out.

I am also going to wait and see what kind of player the other players (meaning brands in this context) are going to release before I finally dive in.

As it stands right now, I am looking at the Sony Playstation 3 Console (the 40 GB version..... I am not much of a game player, so it would be senseless to me to spend upward to about $800.00 for a console and I am not going to ever play any games on it) strictly for Blue-Ray DVD Playback and because it appears to have backwards compatibility (meaning I can still hold onto to my existing DVD collection (more than 300+ movies)). But since Denon appears to be closest to releasing their player, I am also going look at the Denon offerings first. But of the existing Sony offerings, I have read on other threads that their standalone Blue-Ray Players are having playback issues and that the Sony Playstation 3 does not, making it the best player in their lineup and at $450.00, also one of the cheapest.

But anyway, I am continuing to stand on the sideline at the moment, but I am leaning toward Blue-Ray right now.

My $.02 Worth.....

--Charles--

The Panasonic BD30 is getting good user reviews over at AVS. It goes for about $400 on Amazon. The cheapest Denon player currently planned will have a suggested retail price over $1k.

01-05-08: Onkyodude
Why buy a format that ONLY does 1080i?
Think of it that way.
1080p is ALOT better!
Right now, I don`t have either of them.
I`M waiting for
BLU-RAY RECORDERS!!!!!

01-05-08: Cruz123
Onkyodude, as a fyi, there are HD-DVD players that do 1080p.

OnkyoDude, where have you been? The only 1080i-only HD DVD players were the 1st-gen models released in April '06, and the entry-level HD-A2 and HD-A3 models.

And besides, why do you think 1080p is so noticeably superior? LCD, plasma, and DLP-based displays de-interlace 1080i signals and display them as 1080p anyway. The only thing that's noticeably better than 1080i is 1080p/24 fed to a display that refreshes at 120Hz. Toshiba HD DVD players other than the HD-A3 support 1080p/24 as well.

Funny that your alias is "Onkyodude", which bucked the Blu-ray trend and recently released an upscale HD DVD player.

01-05-08: Mitch4t
*
I really don't care either way, as long as they keep making standard def dvd's. I prefer the 4:3 aspect ratio of the standard def discs for my movie screen.

Enlighten me. I've never understood how a movie-enthusiast could prefer to watch films in 4:3 pan'n'scan vs. the original aspect ratio as shot and edited. On particularly wide screen films, sometimes offscreen noses are speaking to the empty space in between, which is all there is to watch.

Secondly, I have always played std. def DVDs in widescreen mode.

No joke Johnnyb53. I thought Mitch was kidding at first but he seems serious. I would NEVER watch a movie in 4:3...period. That would be the exact opposite of immersive to me because all I would be thinking about while watching it is that I'm missing 1/3 of the movie. With a 12 x 16 screen I don't understand why black bars are an issue.

Warner going Blu Ray moves exclusivity for Blu ay from 49% to about 70% and really barring change spells the end for HD-DVD in the long run ( say...when Paramounts 18 month deal is over).

It in no way ensures market adoption of Hi Def DVDs however. The quickest way for the market to adopt hi def DVDs would have been for all studios to produce in both formats.

*
Johnnyb53 & Synthfreek.......I do understand that some of the picture is missing when viewing in 4:3, however, the overwhelming effect of the whole screen filled with a picture really is a turn-on for me. I like the "wow" effect that it has. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy the movies that are available only in letterbox, but my preference is to have the entire screen filled with picture. When watching in 4:3, the part of the picture that is missing has never been noticeable to me.

I don't know if I'd call myself a movie-enthusiast. I'm not a purist when it comes to watching a movie as its creator intended it to be watched. I've watched movies at home my whole life in 4:3 and I've grown to prefer it that way.

The black bars are not an issue.....I just prefer the whole screen to be filled when I can get it.....just my preference, that's all.

Some folk swear by tubes and others like solid state, some swear by vinyl, others go cd, chocolate vs vanilla.....and so on.

Different strokes for different folks.
*

owning a PS3 (my early blu ray player) and recently ordering a Pioneer BDF 95 ($999 upper end blu ray)
I'm happy to see this resolving to one format (although it hurts for those who recently bought HD DVD.

If this helps bring the average consumer to buying HD sources, it will only trickle down to more available and eventually BLu Ray surplanting Standard Def DVD.

I have a Pioneer Elite 1130 50" plasma
it is two years old 1080i
the picture is fabulous on blu ray

I've been tempted to buy the new 60" Pioneer 1080p plasma but $7.5k over something that is as good as I have at home is hard to justify right now

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts johnnyb53

thanks
TOm

The quickest way for the market to adopt hi def DVDs would have been for all studios to produce in both formats.

I'm not sure this is true. If this forum is any indication, many people are waiting for the "war" to end before they buy a high def player. IMHO, having one format will reduce confusion and mass adoption will come much quicker. My guess is that many manufacturers will begin producing players once a format is finalized which should drive prices down. Getting inexpensive players into Wal-Mart and the like is the key.

I'm just not convinced about this notion that the apparent BR win will speed the adoption of High Def media sales. Why? Because of Sony's involvement, and their love of trying to foist proprietary technologies on the public at higher prices.

Yes, I know BR is more than Sony, but I read that Sony is the one that licenses a lot of the technology. I just don't see Sony letting the prices come down much, especially if BR is the only show in town.

01-06-08: Audiotomb

I've been tempted to buy the new 60" Pioneer 1080p plasma but $7.5k over something that is as good as I have at home is hard to justify right now.
thanks
TOm

$7500 is most certainly a large sum of money to spend on a plasma tv these days but,in my opionion, it is money well spent. To say that the new "Kuro" is as good as I have at home only suggests to me that you haven't spent much time with the Kuros. Seeing is believing, to me at least, to the extent of buying into what Pioneer has to offer.
As all things high-end, if you want that over the top listening or viewing experience, unfortunately, we have to pony up to get it.

01-06-08: Audiotomb
I'm happy to see this resolving to one format (although it hurts for those who recently bought HD DVD.

I'm sad to see it end this way (I consider the Warner announcement to be the death-knell for HD DVD), but not because I bought an HD DVD player. I knew going in that HD DVD might not win, but I bought anyway figuring that for $250 I could watch HD DVDs from Netflix in the meantime and that if HD DVD lost out I'd still have an excellent upconverting player (which it certainly is).

I'm sad to see it end this way because I consider HD DVD to be the better mousetrap, the more elegant solution.

* HD DVD had 30GB dual-layer discs ready from the get-go in April 2006. Blu-ray took quite awhile before they could offer anything above 25 GB.
* HD DVD offered stunning digital transfers from the beginning; they didn't appear on Blu-ray until they got the 50 GB capacity working.
* HD DVD players all had ethernet ports for instant firmware upgrades; with most Blu-ray players you have to wait for the CD-ROM in the mail or burn your own on your computer.
* Most HD DVDs at least had Dolby Digital Plus and a fair number have Dolby TrueHD; very few Blu-ray discs do, and the enhanced sound quality is not a requirement of the Blu-ray spec.
* The standard ethernet port on HD DVD players enabled interactive features on many HD DVD discs; Blu-ray discs seldom offer this feature and according to reviews I've read, trying to use them on Blu-ray often results in freeze-up.

So I'm bummed because I think Blu-ray has many more kinks to work out, and with less pressure from HD DVD competition, how long will Sony take to work out these kinks?

01-06-08: Audiotomb
I have a Pioneer Elite 1130 50" plasma
it is two years old 1080i
the picture is fabulous on blu ray

I've been tempted to buy the new 60" Pioneer 1080p plasma but $7.5k over something that is as good as I have at home is hard to justify right now.

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts johnnyb53

I read a little about your Pioneer Elite and it's an impressive unit that even figures out how to convert incoming 3:2 pulldown signals to 3:3 and send them to the screen with a 72Hz refresh rate. I've also lately been torturing myself over how--with a 1280x720 display I have to look at 1080-line input downconveted to 720. Even so, it's a highly satisfying display, and your Pioneer Elite plasma would far exceed my RP LCD Hitachi.

Although your Pioneer Elite accepts a 1080i signal, its maximum line resolution is 768, so that's probably what it downconverts 1080i input to (which would be about 5% sharper than 720p). I think this level of resolution is as good or better than most theaters I've ever been to.

OTOH, I've also seen 1080p-sourced Blu-ray player plugged into a 46" Sony Bravia LCD 1080p display, and it was a new level of sharpness I'd never seen before. I could not see pixels until I was about a foot from the screen. 1080p displays twice the pixels of 720p (or 1080i downconverted to 768p). Still, I don't watch anything at 1.5 feet away, and from my viewing distance (about 7 ft) 720p looks fine.

So my attitude right now is, yeah, 1080p is noticeably better, but not enough to go thru the hassle of selling my current unit and the expense of buying a new one. For me, if I replaced my TV it would have more to do with improving contrast ratio, low-level detail and color balance. But since you have a Pioneer Elite plasma, you already have the state of the art in those parameters.

I'd only "upgrade" to the new Pioneer Elite 1080p plasma if you have $6500 to burn and that slight improvement in resolution is meaningful to you. It'll be a long time before there's much meaningful hi-def content to show the difference anyway.

Aolmrd

I've seen the Kuros - they are fabulous
the best I've seen
their black level is off the charts

I wasn't saying mine was up to the Kuro

"as good as I have at home" means I have a very life like picture I should be enjoying now
the fact that there's something better out there
shouldn't fully diminish my home experience

my Pioneer 50" 1080i 1130HD is probably 85-90% there with a blu ray source

might have to wait for Kuro II

If you Pioneer only handles 1080i how do you handle the fact that BR puts out 1080p?

blu ray downconverts/outputs to 1080i
I have a ps3 and soon a Pioneer BDF95

the latest pioneer plasma mentioned at their press release will be a 2009 release with ultra black blacks -extreme contrast

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/hands-on-with-pioneers-extreme-contrast-concept-plasma/

they took a time elapse picture of it and the current Kuros
to see the amount of light emitted in the blacks

wow, this looks worth waiting for!

I can't speak for that Pioneer, but when my 720p-native LCD RP gets a 1080p signal, it doesn't acknowledge it. It will transfer, upconvert, or downconvert (as the case may be) 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Feed it 1080p and it simply won't show anything.

Both my 1080p-capable Oppo and 1080i max Toshiba HD DVD player have adjustable resolution in players' setup menus. I set 'em both to 1080i. If I set the Oppo to 1080p, my TV gets confused until I set the Oppo to something it can read.

What gives with beating up on Sony?? They took the punches with Betamax, which WAS a superior product to VHS. Now they have another likely superior product but are marketing it effeciently. BTW, I don't work for them.

I have used and appreciated many Sony products over the years - TV's, DVD players, VCR's(yep, Beta and VHS), Projectors, game consoles, Cam-corders Walk-man, computers, Projectors, and more! I have, however not been so fond, personally, of their rentless persuit of owning the world, as it seems. Or at least they always seem to want to corner the market, and make you have to buy their stuff, somehow -comes across that way to me anyway.
I guess other companies are not so different. It just always appeared that Sony was just that much more forcefull about trying to corner all their perspective markets, and even shut out the competition if it could.
Oh well, you take it as it comes. Needless-to-say, Sony has and does make some very good products. That, there is no denying.
Great products, great advertising, REALLY agressive and competetive business and marketing strategies!

Why do I feel sad that Blue-Ray is the winner? Something in my heart says that HD DVD was supposed to win, for some reason. I'm sure it's simply non-sense. But it probably won't matter much, as digital media storage is the future anyway. People will simply stop buying discs, likely. And they'll wind up downloading all their movies and music, like we do with music now on Ipods.
Oh well. Something inside of me says Sony shouldn't have so much power and market share in some technology! Maybe I'm just paranoid

You know who's pissed at all this right about know? Toshiba!...and all the other companies who make ONLY HD-DVD players. That's gotta be a bummer. I mean, these things are all but just about as good as the old Laserdisc players at this point, almost!! Who's going to buy one now?!
Sad...so sad.

01-08-08: Jamesw20
What gives with beating up on Sony?? They took the punches with Betamax, which WAS a superior product to VHS. Now they have another likely superior product but are marketing it effeciently.

I have, and have had many Sony products and have respect for many things they've done in electronics and home entertainment.

But they have a greedy side that gambles everything to get the monopoly or the licensing fees. Beta failed because they were too greedy to license the technology to other vendors until it was too late. JVC licensed everybody and VHS became the standard. Sony wasn't content to go with SD format or some other static memory card; they had to come up with a proprietary one for Memory Stick. They have a crummy record with format standards because they want it all.

I've been in the high tech industry for 27 years and what Sony's done with Blu-ray, I've seen too often: A leading vendor announces an impossibly ambitious performance standard, the gullible rush in to sign up, thus neutralizing or marginalizing other development efforts that could have seen the light of day sooner. IBM did it constantly to keep other vendors from moving ahead. The computer industry had a name for it--FUD--as in Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. As in, "don't waste your time and money on that piddly 30GB HD DVD technology; soon you'll be able to get 50GB disc from Blu-ray."

While Toshiba and HD DVD were producing excellent digital transfers with elevated sound standards, instantly upgradeable software, and interactive special features, Sony was putting out indifferently transferred Blu-ray discs (because they couldn't get the 2-layer 50GB versions to work yet), accompanied by run-of-the-mill Dolby Digital sound, software upgrades that came in the mail, and slow, glitchy machines.

Eventually they will get to the performance level they promised, but it will take a couple years and the consumer loses in the meantime.

For an example, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix should be a state-of-the-art hi-def disc. In HD DVD, you can select Dolby TrueHD or Dolby Digital Plus, and there are interactive special features. In Blu-ray, you get straight multi-channel PCM, std. Dolby Digital 5.1, and garden-variety special features with no interactivity.

Also, if you look closely, the "format wars" were just the latest battleground for old grudges among studios and technology vendors. Disney and Universal have had a feud that dates back to the 1920s. Each picked an exclusive side. Of course Sony Pictures/Columbia/MGM would be exclusively Blu-ray. But Microsoft has grudges against Sony (XBox vs. Playstation) and Sun Microsystems (Java). Java is used to program Blu-ray discs. MS supplies the scripting language for HD DVD. They also cut a deal with Dreamworks SKG when it formed. SKG ALSO has a grudge against Disney dating to when Katzenberg left Disney to help form SKG. About the only studio not to have a dog in those fights, or loyalty in thos alliances, was Warner, who was the last to produce both formats. Do you think for a minute that Sony didn't exploit those grudges to get exclusive sign-ons from 20th Century Fox, Disney, Lions Gate, etc.?

And in this case, why did there have to be a format winner anyway? It was only a matter of time before there would be universal players under $300. It's not like it was with video cassettes in the early '80s, when the form factor was incompatible and each machine was $500-1000 in 1983 money. Now you can get one of each for a combined $500, and the discs are the same size and shape.

It's true that content vendors hate having to stock multiple SKUs of a single title, but there was a time when they stocked LPs, 7" reels, cassettes, and 8-track of some titles, and later, LP, cassette, and CD.

Video vendors stocked VHS and Beta, and later, VHS and DVD. With the demise of VHS they've only had to stock DVD for the past few years and they've gotten spoiled. THEY are the ones who pushed to limit the format choices to the consumers--Blockbuster, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, etc.

If the studios had all gone exclusive one way or another, there would have been little impact in the multiple SKUs argument, because new releases would have been released in std. def DVD and in one hi-def format, either HD DVD or Blu-ray, depending on studio affiliation. Actually, HD DVD was ahead on that game too, as they were issuing HD DVDs in dual-format, one side std. def and the other HD DVD. One SKU per title.

Yeah, /\ what Johnnyb53 said!

Hey all- just back from CES and spent quite a bit of time with HD-DVD and Blu ray, including studios, COmoputer manufactures, media writers etc.

Certainly picked up quite a bit of info. Anyway, just a couple of things for now; the Warner deal doesnt start until end of May/June as an FYI.

AS far as backward compatibility of Blu Ray players as well as future proofing..well..hmm. Blu ray devices are 1.0, 1.1, and, in the future 2.0, known as Blu Ray Live as the eponym.

Only 2.0 players with ethernet connectivity and picture in a picture capability will be able to do in the future what HD-DVD players can do now. The only current or currently planned Blu Ray Player, including the SAmsung BD-5500 ( not yet released) that will be upgradable to the full 2.0 spec, is the PS3.

All Players however, will be able to actually play the blu ray movies in the future and transmit the audio tracks, even if they cant do any of the interactive or live features.

I agree with Johnnyb53.
Local retailers are advertising their HD DVD players for $99 plus get 3 movies for free. At this price point you know who is going to buy this price. The local A&B Sound says that they have sold over 300 in just 2 days. Maybe it is not too late for HD DVD. I think they should have done this back in JULY 2007, hey just my opinion.

01-26-08: Rugyboogie
Local retailers are advertising their HD DVD players for $99 plus get 3 movies for free. At this price point you know who is going to buy this price. The local A&B Sound says that they have sold over 300 in just 2 days. Maybe it is not too late for HD DVD.

The missing piece of this puzzle is that owners of HD DVD players need to pressure the video vendors to carry the HD DVD titles. There are almost as many titles available in HD DVD as there are in Blu-ray, but you'd never know it from a visit to your local Blockbuster, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, or Target (who, to be fair, carries a decent selection). If there is a formidable demand for HD DVD software, the vendors will realize that their attempt to manipulate consumer preference is costing them money and will stock them.

From there, if big vendors such as Blockbuster and Wal-Mart pressured Warners and others to continue making HD DVD transfers, I'd think they'd have to listen.

Such a consumer revolt would be sensible: After all, you can get into HD DVD for $99-128. For that price, you get HD DVD with ethernet port for upgrades and web-based interactive features, HDMI 1.3, ability to decode the lossless audio codecs, and many discs that feature TrueHD and interactive features. For $100 more you add 1080p/24 vido output, and 5.1 analog output of decoded hi-res soundtracks. Even a $1500 Blu-ray player doesn't offer all that, and the Blu-ray adopters will have to wait a year or so to get them (assuming the development pace doesn't slow down with less competition from HD DVD). And unless their machine is a PS3, they'll have to buy another machine to get those features.

Right now, my local Sam's Club carries the Toshiba HD-D3, but only carries three HD DVD titles vs. at least 50 Blu-ray. That's just wrong. And no, it's not beause they can't keep HD DVD in stock, it's because they're only stocking the HD DVD titles that are too big to ignore--Shrek the Third, Bourne Ultimatum, and Transformers.

The only revolt you are likely to see is that of HD DVD player owners when Paramount and Microsoft finally throw in the towel.

According to reports, since Warner's announcement sales of Blu Ray players have outstripped HD DVD 93% to 7%. If HD DVD isn't dead, it's on life support.

The report the previous poster is referring to has been retracted due to flawed data, quite an embarrassment for the organization that employs the person responsible.

That data doesn't include online sales ( like Amazon) as well as Walmart, which doesn't report this type of data at all.

AS an FYI, Blu Ray should basically ALWAYS outsell HD-DVD, by about 70:30 based on US studio splits as it stands. The question is; does that mean dual players? A true victory for Blu ray? A delayed result so that it becomes all about downloadable movie titles ( Hi Def) in 3-4 years so that no one "wins'?

These are some of the real questions.

I didn't trust that 93% figure either, as it was on www.blu-ray.com, and I found it hard to believe that Blu-ray player sales would double immediately after the Warner announcement, given that $150 HD DVD players were suddenly flying out the door in response to Toshiba's price slashing. Entry price on Blu-ray players is back up to near $400.

At least people who buy a $99 player will not have much to complain about if HD-DVD media does die out....that is really a bargain...the only issue would be all those unplayable media discs....perhaps PC's will support HD-DVD and you can continue to watch them on a PC (the merge between TV and PC is coming closer)?

01-27-08: Shadorne
At least people who buy a $99 player will not have much to complain about if HD-DVD media does die out....

That's why I bought the HD-D2--I never planned to buy discs, just play HD DVDs from Netflix and get a good upconversion from standard.

At $99 to $128, however, you could stockpile a couple of HD DVD players to continue to play HD DVDs when your first player wears out. Also, I did buy (or receive as gifts) some HD DVDs, but several of them are dual format with std. DVD on the other side, so they'll never become drink coasters. And yes, you can get an HD DVD drive for a computer as well.