Warner and Blu ray?

01-05-08: Onkyodude
Why buy a format that ONLY does 1080i?
Think of it that way.
1080p is ALOT better!
Right now, I don`t have either of them.
I`M waiting for
BLU-RAY RECORDERS!!!!!

01-05-08: Cruz123
Onkyodude, as a fyi, there are HD-DVD players that do 1080p.

OnkyoDude, where have you been? The only 1080i-only HD DVD players were the 1st-gen models released in April '06, and the entry-level HD-A2 and HD-A3 models.

And besides, why do you think 1080p is so noticeably superior? LCD, plasma, and DLP-based displays de-interlace 1080i signals and display them as 1080p anyway. The only thing that's noticeably better than 1080i is 1080p/24 fed to a display that refreshes at 120Hz. Toshiba HD DVD players other than the HD-A3 support 1080p/24 as well.

Funny that your alias is "Onkyodude", which bucked the Blu-ray trend and recently released an upscale HD DVD player.

01-05-08: Mitch4t
*
I really don't care either way, as long as they keep making standard def dvd's. I prefer the 4:3 aspect ratio of the standard def discs for my movie screen.

Enlighten me. I've never understood how a movie-enthusiast could prefer to watch films in 4:3 pan'n'scan vs. the original aspect ratio as shot and edited. On particularly wide screen films, sometimes offscreen noses are speaking to the empty space in between, which is all there is to watch.

Secondly, I have always played std. def DVDs in widescreen mode.

01-06-08: Audiotomb
I'm happy to see this resolving to one format (although it hurts for those who recently bought HD DVD.

I'm sad to see it end this way (I consider the Warner announcement to be the death-knell for HD DVD), but not because I bought an HD DVD player. I knew going in that HD DVD might not win, but I bought anyway figuring that for $250 I could watch HD DVDs from Netflix in the meantime and that if HD DVD lost out I'd still have an excellent upconverting player (which it certainly is).

I'm sad to see it end this way because I consider HD DVD to be the better mousetrap, the more elegant solution.

* HD DVD had 30GB dual-layer discs ready from the get-go in April 2006. Blu-ray took quite awhile before they could offer anything above 25 GB.
* HD DVD offered stunning digital transfers from the beginning; they didn't appear on Blu-ray until they got the 50 GB capacity working.
* HD DVD players all had ethernet ports for instant firmware upgrades; with most Blu-ray players you have to wait for the CD-ROM in the mail or burn your own on your computer.
* Most HD DVDs at least had Dolby Digital Plus and a fair number have Dolby TrueHD; very few Blu-ray discs do, and the enhanced sound quality is not a requirement of the Blu-ray spec.
* The standard ethernet port on HD DVD players enabled interactive features on many HD DVD discs; Blu-ray discs seldom offer this feature and according to reviews I've read, trying to use them on Blu-ray often results in freeze-up.

So I'm bummed because I think Blu-ray has many more kinks to work out, and with less pressure from HD DVD competition, how long will Sony take to work out these kinks?

01-06-08: Audiotomb
I have a Pioneer Elite 1130 50" plasma
it is two years old 1080i
the picture is fabulous on blu ray

I've been tempted to buy the new 60" Pioneer 1080p plasma but $7.5k over something that is as good as I have at home is hard to justify right now.

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts johnnyb53

I read a little about your Pioneer Elite and it's an impressive unit that even figures out how to convert incoming 3:2 pulldown signals to 3:3 and send them to the screen with a 72Hz refresh rate. I've also lately been torturing myself over how--with a 1280x720 display I have to look at 1080-line input downconveted to 720. Even so, it's a highly satisfying display, and your Pioneer Elite plasma would far exceed my RP LCD Hitachi.

Although your Pioneer Elite accepts a 1080i signal, its maximum line resolution is 768, so that's probably what it downconverts 1080i input to (which would be about 5% sharper than 720p). I think this level of resolution is as good or better than most theaters I've ever been to.

OTOH, I've also seen 1080p-sourced Blu-ray player plugged into a 46" Sony Bravia LCD 1080p display, and it was a new level of sharpness I'd never seen before. I could not see pixels until I was about a foot from the screen. 1080p displays twice the pixels of 720p (or 1080i downconverted to 768p). Still, I don't watch anything at 1.5 feet away, and from my viewing distance (about 7 ft) 720p looks fine.

So my attitude right now is, yeah, 1080p is noticeably better, but not enough to go thru the hassle of selling my current unit and the expense of buying a new one. For me, if I replaced my TV it would have more to do with improving contrast ratio, low-level detail and color balance. But since you have a Pioneer Elite plasma, you already have the state of the art in those parameters.

I'd only "upgrade" to the new Pioneer Elite 1080p plasma if you have $6500 to burn and that slight improvement in resolution is meaningful to you. It'll be a long time before there's much meaningful hi-def content to show the difference anyway.

I can't speak for that Pioneer, but when my 720p-native LCD RP gets a 1080p signal, it doesn't acknowledge it. It will transfer, upconvert, or downconvert (as the case may be) 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Feed it 1080p and it simply won't show anything.

Both my 1080p-capable Oppo and 1080i max Toshiba HD DVD player have adjustable resolution in players' setup menus. I set 'em both to 1080i. If I set the Oppo to 1080p, my TV gets confused until I set the Oppo to something it can read.

01-08-08: Jamesw20
What gives with beating up on Sony?? They took the punches with Betamax, which WAS a superior product to VHS. Now they have another likely superior product but are marketing it effeciently.

I have, and have had many Sony products and have respect for many things they've done in electronics and home entertainment.

But they have a greedy side that gambles everything to get the monopoly or the licensing fees. Beta failed because they were too greedy to license the technology to other vendors until it was too late. JVC licensed everybody and VHS became the standard. Sony wasn't content to go with SD format or some other static memory card; they had to come up with a proprietary one for Memory Stick. They have a crummy record with format standards because they want it all.

I've been in the high tech industry for 27 years and what Sony's done with Blu-ray, I've seen too often: A leading vendor announces an impossibly ambitious performance standard, the gullible rush in to sign up, thus neutralizing or marginalizing other development efforts that could have seen the light of day sooner. IBM did it constantly to keep other vendors from moving ahead. The computer industry had a name for it--FUD--as in Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. As in, "don't waste your time and money on that piddly 30GB HD DVD technology; soon you'll be able to get 50GB disc from Blu-ray."

While Toshiba and HD DVD were producing excellent digital transfers with elevated sound standards, instantly upgradeable software, and interactive special features, Sony was putting out indifferently transferred Blu-ray discs (because they couldn't get the 2-layer 50GB versions to work yet), accompanied by run-of-the-mill Dolby Digital sound, software upgrades that came in the mail, and slow, glitchy machines.

Eventually they will get to the performance level they promised, but it will take a couple years and the consumer loses in the meantime.

For an example, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix should be a state-of-the-art hi-def disc. In HD DVD, you can select Dolby TrueHD or Dolby Digital Plus, and there are interactive special features. In Blu-ray, you get straight multi-channel PCM, std. Dolby Digital 5.1, and garden-variety special features with no interactivity.

Also, if you look closely, the "format wars" were just the latest battleground for old grudges among studios and technology vendors. Disney and Universal have had a feud that dates back to the 1920s. Each picked an exclusive side. Of course Sony Pictures/Columbia/MGM would be exclusively Blu-ray. But Microsoft has grudges against Sony (XBox vs. Playstation) and Sun Microsystems (Java). Java is used to program Blu-ray discs. MS supplies the scripting language for HD DVD. They also cut a deal with Dreamworks SKG when it formed. SKG ALSO has a grudge against Disney dating to when Katzenberg left Disney to help form SKG. About the only studio not to have a dog in those fights, or loyalty in thos alliances, was Warner, who was the last to produce both formats. Do you think for a minute that Sony didn't exploit those grudges to get exclusive sign-ons from 20th Century Fox, Disney, Lions Gate, etc.?

And in this case, why did there have to be a format winner anyway? It was only a matter of time before there would be universal players under $300. It's not like it was with video cassettes in the early '80s, when the form factor was incompatible and each machine was $500-1000 in 1983 money. Now you can get one of each for a combined $500, and the discs are the same size and shape.

It's true that content vendors hate having to stock multiple SKUs of a single title, but there was a time when they stocked LPs, 7" reels, cassettes, and 8-track of some titles, and later, LP, cassette, and CD.

Video vendors stocked VHS and Beta, and later, VHS and DVD. With the demise of VHS they've only had to stock DVD for the past few years and they've gotten spoiled. THEY are the ones who pushed to limit the format choices to the consumers--Blockbuster, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, etc.

If the studios had all gone exclusive one way or another, there would have been little impact in the multiple SKUs argument, because new releases would have been released in std. def DVD and in one hi-def format, either HD DVD or Blu-ray, depending on studio affiliation. Actually, HD DVD was ahead on that game too, as they were issuing HD DVDs in dual-format, one side std. def and the other HD DVD. One SKU per title.

01-26-08: Rugyboogie
Local retailers are advertising their HD DVD players for $99 plus get 3 movies for free. At this price point you know who is going to buy this price. The local A&B Sound says that they have sold over 300 in just 2 days. Maybe it is not too late for HD DVD.

The missing piece of this puzzle is that owners of HD DVD players need to pressure the video vendors to carry the HD DVD titles. There are almost as many titles available in HD DVD as there are in Blu-ray, but you'd never know it from a visit to your local Blockbuster, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, or Target (who, to be fair, carries a decent selection). If there is a formidable demand for HD DVD software, the vendors will realize that their attempt to manipulate consumer preference is costing them money and will stock them.

From there, if big vendors such as Blockbuster and Wal-Mart pressured Warners and others to continue making HD DVD transfers, I'd think they'd have to listen.

Such a consumer revolt would be sensible: After all, you can get into HD DVD for $99-128. For that price, you get HD DVD with ethernet port for upgrades and web-based interactive features, HDMI 1.3, ability to decode the lossless audio codecs, and many discs that feature TrueHD and interactive features. For $100 more you add 1080p/24 vido output, and 5.1 analog output of decoded hi-res soundtracks. Even a $1500 Blu-ray player doesn't offer all that, and the Blu-ray adopters will have to wait a year or so to get them (assuming the development pace doesn't slow down with less competition from HD DVD). And unless their machine is a PS3, they'll have to buy another machine to get those features.

Right now, my local Sam's Club carries the Toshiba HD-D3, but only carries three HD DVD titles vs. at least 50 Blu-ray. That's just wrong. And no, it's not beause they can't keep HD DVD in stock, it's because they're only stocking the HD DVD titles that are too big to ignore--Shrek the Third, Bourne Ultimatum, and Transformers.

I didn't trust that 93% figure either, as it was on www.blu-ray.com, and I found it hard to believe that Blu-ray player sales would double immediately after the Warner announcement, given that $150 HD DVD players were suddenly flying out the door in response to Toshiba's price slashing. Entry price on Blu-ray players is back up to near $400.

01-27-08: Shadorne
At least people who buy a $99 player will not have much to complain about if HD-DVD media does die out....

That's why I bought the HD-D2--I never planned to buy discs, just play HD DVDs from Netflix and get a good upconversion from standard.

At $99 to $128, however, you could stockpile a couple of HD DVD players to continue to play HD DVDs when your first player wears out. Also, I did buy (or receive as gifts) some HD DVDs, but several of them are dual format with std. DVD on the other side, so they'll never become drink coasters. And yes, you can get an HD DVD drive for a computer as well.