Sorry, Chakster.
Evidently my memory of the chronology of events is faulty. Your quote of my old post suggests that Thuchan's TT101 was up and running before mine. Otherwise, I would not have been "thinking hard" about sending my own TT101 to Germany, back then. However, I never did send it to Germany, because I (subsequently) found JP in NYC. Thanks for setting me straight.
By any chance, do you know the date of that post you quoted?
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Sorry, Chakster.
Evidently my memory of the chronology of events is faulty. Your quote of my old post suggests that Thuchan's TT101 was up and running before mine. Otherwise, I would not have been "thinking hard" about sending my own TT101 to Germany, back then. However, I never did send it to Germany, because I (subsequently) found JP in NYC. Thanks for setting me straight.
By any chance, do you know the date of that post you quoted?
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Lew, i made notes reading this thread. The source for my suggestion was your old post (see the quote below). I assume it never happened and you shipped to JP, which is great. @lewm I am also thinking hard about sending my Victor TT101 to Germany so that Thuchan’s guy can fix it, once and for all. I got an email from Thuchan today; he is thrilled with the sound of his TT101. This is a guy who owns some of the most expensive turntables in the world, so I take his praise for the TT101 very seriously.
Thuchan had evidently purchased a broken TT101 with Halcro’s help, and his tech determined that it needed replacement of SC3042. Until this recent episode, I had no idea whether the chips I bought (from a vendor in Hong Kong) were genuine or even in operating condition, but Thuchan’s tech got his TT101 up and running perfectly by virture of installing the chip I sent. This is great news for me as well, because I have more SC3042 chips on hand. (By the way, I think they are still available from China and Hong Kong.) I just checked shipping quotes for 12kg parcel and Germany is affordable, USA is expensive, but Oz is terribly expensive to ship to. And that was just registered mail, not an express. So i would appreciate any help to get in toucht with Tuchan’s tech guy for consultation. I see the problem with Tuchan’s drive was different than mine, so i want to ask if he’s familiar with my problem and if it’s possible to fix and calibrate everything to keep this deck for years. Thanks |
Chak, I am not sure what you are saying above, but in any case, my TT101 never went to Germany. In fact, Thuchan did not buy his TT101 until well after mine had been repaired by JP. Bill Thalmann had a shot at repairing mine, but it would not misbehave at any time in Bill's shop. I left it with him twice, in fact. That was another weird aspect of the problem. As mentioned elsewhere, it would often work well in our kitchen but not in our basement (where I have a second system that now is driven by the TT101, alternating with my Lenco). In retrospect, we can hypothesize that the fracture in the PCB tracing was causing an intermittent short which resulted in an intermittent problem that could come and go in relation to moving the turntable from place to place. Trucking it in my car on the DC beltway over to Bill's shop was good for it on the way out and bad for it on the way back to my house. (Tongue in cheek, of course.) I still have great faith in Bill.
My other point would be that re-soldering all the joints did not cure the problem, because it was basically caused by a fracture in the PCB, cutting across a tracing on the PCB. JP mentioned his wider experience with the fragility of the PCBs. So, one might consider going over the PCB with a magnifying glass. Even when JP told me where to look, after he repaired mine, I could not easily see the fault or his repair of it.
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@halcro oops, it was Lew you tried to send his tt-101 to Tuchan’s tech in Germany once.
PM sent |
He didn't work on my Victor chakster (I'm in Sydney)....
He rebuilt Thuchan's who happens to live in Regensburg.
If you decide on this route, let me know and I will try to put you in contact with him....😎
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@halcro
Regensburg in Bavaria may be closer to you chakster......That's where Thuchan's Tech resides and I've witnessed his work first-hand. It's first class and he now knows the TT-101 inside out....
The closest route, worth to visit personally, sounds good. How long it could take to fix the drive? Was in too long in your case? |
@downunder
Hi Misha
Come to Sydney for a holiday and bring your turntable.
Yes, Chris is in Sydney.
Haha, i imagine those guys on security control in the airport when they will meet me with TT-101 in the bag :) |
@lewm Chak, Your symptom sounds a bit different from mine, although maybe close enough to have the same cause. As I wrote somewhere here, my TT101 would start up fine and go to correct speed, but it would very soon thereafter start to "hunt"; the tach would show 33.32, then 33.34, etc. Very shortly after that, the tach would go dark except for the decimal point, and the platter would coast to a halt. Indeed, Lew. My drive "hunt" for a few seconds in the start only with "HOLD" mode (when it can be displayed 33.32 or so just for second), but then display correct 33.33 or 45.00 continuously up to 1 hour with no changes, then just "go dark except for the decimal point". So just a little difference from yours. @jpjones3318
If it’s stopping as Lew described you’ve a situation where too much current is being supplied to the motor. Time won’t fix this; it’s likely there’s a bad connection on the board.
Thanks for letting me know, hmm @banquo363 What you require is someone with soldering skills and keen eyes (aided by a magnifying glass). I haven’t been following this thread very closely lately, but I believe a goodly percentage of tt 101’s documented on this thread have been resurrected solely by resoldering all the joints. Good to know, i hope so! I will look for the proper technician locally at first. |
SO WHAT CAN I DO? Is that require some sort fo special knowlegde or experience to fix it locally with some tech? IMO, you probably don't require a man of knowledge. What you require is someone with soldering skills and keen eyes (aided by a magnifying glass). I haven't been following this thread very closely lately, but I believe a goodly percentage of tt 101's documented on this thread have been resurrected solely by resoldering all the joints. You need to find someone who will undertake that task. And make clear to him that even if a joint appears to be fine that he should re-do it anyways. My hero, Dave Brown, called it the brute force method |
Chak, Your symptom sounds a bit different from mine, although maybe close enough to have the same cause. As I wrote somewhere here, my TT101 would start up fine and go to correct speed, but it would very soon thereafter start to "hunt"; the tach would show 33.32, then 33.34, etc. Very shortly after that, the tach would go dark except for the decimal point, and the platter would coast to a halt. This whole process from start to stall never took more than 2 minutes, tops.
Like JP says, in "HOLD" mode, the tach stays blank until it sees the set speed; then it displays. Thus it is not abnormal to have a short time delay before the tach lights up, but at that moment, it should show the correct set speed. In RUN mode, it counts up from zero to set speed, visually from the moment you press the button, so there is no delay in that mode.
Don't give up. We are not living dangerously, just frustratingly. |
Hi Misha,
The two seconds for the display to change is normal. If you put it in run mode you can watch it count up. It does the same in hold mode, though only updates the display at the end of the cycle - every 1.8s IIRC.
If it's stopping as Lew described you've a situation where too much current is being supplied to the motor. Time won't fix this; it's likely there's a bad connection on the board.
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Regensburg in Bavaria may be closer to you chakster......
That's where Thuchan's Tech resides and I've witnessed his work first-hand.
It's first class and he now knows the TT-101 inside out....
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Hi Misha
Come to Sydney for a holiday and bring your turntable.
Yes, Chris is in Sydney.
Cheers |
Finished this big thread and made my notes regarding different TT-101s samples, owned by several people here. Maybe i was too optimictic when i ordered mine, but after reading all comments i’m not so happy about it. The unit if from one owner and rarely used, perfect condition, but must be fixed. The situation described below by Lew is exactly what’s going on with my Victor TT-101 right now: @lewm There is no problem in terms of displaying 33.33 or 45.00. It goes right up to display those two speeds and holds those numbers firmly. The problem is that occasionally it will go into its typical failure mode after 3-4 minutes: the tach lights go out, except for the decimal point, and the platter coasts to a stop (no brake effect). It’s as if someone pulled the plug, except the power lights are all "on". If you then re-start, it will work fine, as if nothing bad had happened... The problem with my TT101 seems at the moment only to have been a tiny crack in the main PCB, right near the edge. JP thinks it occurred during manufacture, 30-odd years ago. The circuit was only maintained by solder, and once the solder cracked (invisibly, I might add), the result was a fault in TT101 function that was manifested intermittently, depending upon stress on that PCB. There was no need to replace the SC3042 chip in mine or indeed any of the discrete transistors. Great work by JP to find this problem, only made possible by the fact that the thing finally malfunctioned in the presence of a smart guy who knew how to trace down the cause. Other such problems are being searched for, just as a precaution before I get it back. I hope this is not premature, but I am very pleased. It’s my first day to plug it and turn in on, no promlem with speed stability at all, despite the fact that it takes 2 second before the digits on display turning from 0.00 to 33.33 or 45.00 Pitch works fine, stop button works fine, power button works fine too. But i can only run it for 15 minutes, sometimes only for 1 minutу (as described by Lewm above). Actually right now it's still spinnin' for 30 min. Maybe burn-in process is important and it will run longer. Sadly i’m not in USA to send it @jpjones3318 and his time is limited now. Lew has mentioned Tuchan’s tech in Germany which is much closer. @banquo363 On my understanding of what he told me, the boards used on the victor are ‘eyelet boards’. The solder connections through such boards tended to suffer cracking. This is what happened to mine. Some of the connections are heat sensitive, and that’s why I experienced the partial resurrection a few weeks back after leaving the unit on. The cracking is not necessarily evident to the naked eye, but after resoldering the boards, the table now works flawlessly. It should be noted that changing the power supply capacitors didn’t fix any of my troubles, but some of them appeared to be leaking so it was a good idea to do so. After nearly a year of fruitless search for someone to fix my ailing Victor tt 101, I found the man of my audio dreams. His name is Dave Brown http://modularsynthesis.com/ . Second "man of audio dreams" is also in USA, too far. @halcro and @downunder Glad Chris (Kimil) helped you Downunder. His ingenuity, understanding and competence in all things audio are unequalled in my experience... I took back my TT-101 to have him adjust the variable resistors for the platter brake system. As I discovered....Victor added this feature to allow for the differing weights of various mats...and as I changed to only a thin Victor pigskin mat directly placed on the aluminium platter.....the brake system didn’t perform as required. It took Chris precisely 20 minutes to adjust them ( one for 33.3rpm and one for 45rpm). No charge...and they work perfectly.. I would waste no time in having him replace all the electrolytics in your P3. Since my TT-101 had its done....the speeds are consistently perfect.
I assume Chris Kemil is Australian, well, keeping in mind the shipping price for my CU-180 for Downunder i assume it will be extremely expensive to ship the TT-101 to Oz. SO WHAT CAN I DO? Is that require some sort fo special knowlegde or experience to fix it locally with some tech? |
@lewn
Such a subtle problem may indicate some cold welding, but it is too long to rework all the welds. |
Chakster, You asked about testing a TT101 by running it continuously. One guy who put himself out there as a DD repair expert took my TT101, plugged it in at his shop (or so he told me) and ran it for two weeks, with no issues. He then sent it back to me with the notation that it was not broken. Fact is, my problem was always intermittent. I had provided him with a detailed description of the problem, including the fact that it was intermittent, a priori, both verbally on the phone and in the context of a note that I enclosed with the turntable when I shipped it to him. But like many smug auto mechanics, and some doctors (I am embarrassed to say), he did not pay any attention to the information he was given. Needless to say, fresh out of the box from his shop and installed into my system, the problem was immediately evident once again. (For a while, my TT101 would work in our kitchen, where there is no audio system; I would then bring it to the basement to use in my secondary system, and down there, it would crash. We entertained thoughts of a weird glitch on the AC line in the basement, during that phase.) So, no, I don't necessarily assume that running the turntable for months on end is either a good idea or proof of its flawless performance. The ever kind and patient Bill Thalmann also could not make my TT101 fail in his shop on his workbench, which precluded his solving the problem. But Bill does pay attention to what customers tell him, and he has a sense of humor. By the time I found JP and sent it off to NYC, the "intermittent" problem had become much more constant. Which actually helped JP to find the occult fracture in my "fragile" PCB.
(Problem was as follows: TT101 would start and go to 33.33 on the tach. Within a minute or less, it would then start to hunt for speed, showing 33.34, then 33.32. Shortly thereafter, it would stall out; the tach would go blank, and the platter would coast to a halt. The electronic brake would not activate. In about a minute, you could start it up again, and it would go through the same sequence.) |
@lewm
Mine was on eBay as part of a QL10 ensemble, which is a TT101 set into the top line Victor plinth and bearing a Victor UA7045 tonearm. The seller was honest enough to admit that the turntable was not working. I was willing to pay no more than $600 for it, on the premise that the tonearm alone is worth about that much. To my surprise, I won the auction at that price. Moreover, all pieces are in mint condition.
Good price, another lot like this sold for $950 (non-working) last year. |
Hi Misha,
Never had my hands on an SL-10 or 15, though I certainly wouldn't mind playing with one. I’ve limited my collection, for the most part, to the absolute statement ’tables from the Japanese manufacturers, though I may sneak an EMT in the mix.
These days I play with other ’tables by repairing them, if I’ve the time. |
@jpjones3318 hey John, before you flew away on your wakeboard, i’d like to ask your opinion about Technics SL10 and SL15 little beauties, do you have some in your collection? I've noticed one on video at Sterling Sound mastering studio visited by Mr.Fremer. |
Nice work on the plinth totem....👌
'Be happy to help audpulse...just pm me or post your email....
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On the last one I had to repair a broken coil in the motor, and repair the main bearing, though that was inflicted damage==jpjones3318.
That is my tt101. Since receiving it, I let it run for forty (40) days,24/7, and I am pleased to report that no single issue with the turntable. It is good as new and will not hesitate to recommend JP. Still in the process of making the slate plinth. I have two trials with no success. Maybe I should reach out to Halcro to get a copy of his plinth.
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I currently have in my collection a few SP-10MK3, an NOS SP-10MK2A, DP-100, L-07D, PS-X9, TX-1000, TT-101, and an SL-1200 GAE and MK4. Oh, and a TD-224, just because I like the clockwork mechanics.
Most of them are in the refurb queue, and as such I haven't been able to hear them. Some aren't complete; I'm looking for a MAX-237 for the TX-1000. Actually, that's the only one that isn't complete.
I don't find the TT-101 electronics all that complicated, but the calibration procedures are a bit complex and the service manual, as they all do, gets some stuff wrong, and leaves some stuff out. The main board is beyond fragile which makes them a royal pain to work on. I've lost money on the few I've resurrected, and now won't even consider touching one for less than $1500. On the last one I had to repair a broken coil in the motor, and repair the main bearing, though that was inflicted damage.
Professionally I was a technology consultant up until a month ago, when I went full-time with my top customer. Since then my free time has been nearly non-existintent, and what little I've had I've spent on my own selfish pursuits. Plus it's summer, and I'd rather be on the lake on my wakeboard! :)
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@halcro @lewm
Thanks for detailed information regarding the restoration of this deck.
I'm in the middle of this thread, but i see other users turns on their tt-101 to work continuously for 1 month. That's the way to check the operation condition for those decks that are not described as junk or non-working? |
Just put a few pictures of my plinth for the Victor TT-101
on my system page Rosewood CLD construction. |
A grandkid who told this story about the prins who endured all kinds of hardship for 7 years in order to get his beloved Esmeralda to his granddad was confronted with this question by his granddad: ''why deed he not took some other women?'' |
A grandkid who told the story about this '''hero'' who combat against all kinds of adversory for 7 years in order to get his beloved Esmeralda to his granddad was confronted with this question by his granddad: ''why deed he not chose some other women?'' |
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I doubt JP wants to do a cosmetic restoration of a TT101. First, his main passion is the SP10 Mk3, for which he has re-created the vital chip (MN6042, I think) using discrete components, with specs superior to the original. (I bought one, but I still need to have JP install it. Since I espouse the "if it's not broken, don't fix it" approach, I am procrastinating.) Second, his expertise is in the electronics. I would focus him on what he does superbly well, including calibration of the drive system. Even if your DD is ostensibly "working" fine, there is a chance it could be better, more torque, more accurate servo action, if properly calibrated. JP told me that many DD's sent to him in working order are not in fact operating up to par because of poor or no calibration. (This included my TT101, which besides having a crack in the PCB was also not well calibrated.) If you re-cap your vintage DD, the next step is probably also to re-calibrate it. (I am not saying that JP is the only person on earth who can do that. Thuchan evidently found some expertise in Germany, for one example.)
Chakster, The story of my TT101 cost-wise is perhaps more encouraging than Halcro's story. Mine was on eBay as part of a QL10 ensemble, which is a TT101 set into the top line Victor plinth and bearing a Victor UA7045 tonearm. The seller was honest enough to admit that the turntable was not working. I was willing to pay no more than $600 for it, on the premise that the tonearm alone is worth about that much. To my surprise, I won the auction at that price. Moreover, all pieces are in mint condition. I now think that the crack in the PCB which was causing the intermittent issues probably was there when the unit left the factory. Thus my TT101 probably saw very little use over its lifetime.
I use my TT101 in the QL10 plinth after heavy modifications to the plinth, including the addition of mass and damping, using aluminum slabs bolted to the underside, and replacement of the MDF tonearm board with a custom-machined, massive, aluminum mount. I'm running a Fidelity Research FR64S in a B60 base mounted into the alu arm board. I have a slate plinth, originally made for my Denon DP80, but the hole for the DP80 is just a little bit too big or too small for the TT101. I'm quite happy with what I've got, anyway.
I don't want to encourage JP to raise his prices, but his services are VERY reasonable, especially considering the fact that they are vital to our DD lovers group, as Halcro stated.
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Yes chakster......it's the same plinth except his is slate whilst mine is polished granite. I sent Thuchan the blueprints which he used for his slate copy... It's really hard to be definitive in the used TT-101 market.... They are so rare that their current owners 'pretend' there is nothing seriously wrong with the example they have for sale, and often price them (or go to auction in the case of Japan Yahoo) as if they are in good 'working' order... Sometimes an honest seller will contain the work "junk" in their yahoo description and yes.....you can perhaps win the auction for $300-$400. A better bet perhaps is to wait for a Canadian or US seller who admits the deck is not working and will negotiate a price between $500-$600. Buying from a 'known' re-seller in HongKong like Foxtan is not a guarantee of joy (as I found out to my regret and cost) but buying from Tommy at TopClass Audio in Hong Kong (as I finally did) is perhaps the best course. But then be prepared to pay $1500-$2000 and wait 1-2 years (as I did) for him to find a working example. But even if you DO stumble upon a real 'working' example.....you will probably find that something 'breaks' within a few months. Invariably you will need to replace all electrolytic capacitors and a few transistors and most importantly.....burn out all the old solder joints and replace with new. So if you are eventually bound to have to do all that....I would advise anyone who really wants a TT-101....to buy a 'junk' non-working model for less than $500, and send it to JP Jones for a complete restoration. I don't know how much JP Jones charges for such a service, but you would need to put more than $1,000 into a 'junk' TT-101 to have peace of mind I would imagine.... An alternative would be to buy a TT-81 for $400 on HiFiDo and live happily ever after 😁👍 |
@halcro great that you’ve met in person in Europe. Is that the same "plinth", but glossy finish?
When you say "cheaply" is that $300-500 range or lower ? Buyin this turntable in non working condition how much (roughly) the owner should invest to return it to life? I assumed it also takes too much time, not only investment. Just curious. |
Hi chakster, After the High-End Show 2017 in Munich....I spent several days in Regensburg (a scenic Bavarian town on the Danube) where I was privileged to listen extensively to Thuchan's impressive system. His Victor TT-101 was never humbled by his other great turntables including the EMT 927/R80 and his latest Caeles. The TT-101 is the only Direct Drive connected to his system as his Nakamichi TX1000, Marantz JT1000, Denon 100M and Sony PS-X9 are all 'retired'. I found a non-working 'basket-case' TT-101 for him in Canada which he was able to purchase cheaply and he had it completely rebuilt....a process which dragged on for over a year. When his technicians finally had it completed....they were unable to get it working due to a faulty main chip which they couldn't source anywhere in the world. I remembered that Lewm had written about finding some unobtanium power chips for the 101 some years ago and lo and behold.....these were the ones that Thuchan needed and thus was saved from obscurity (thanks to Lew's generosity), another TT-101 vintage deck. My own TT-101 has risen to new heights since it, and the three arm-pods have been supported by the active Herzan isolation platform. Victor TT-101 turntables only turn up about 3 or 4 times a year on eBay or Japan Yahoo but almost invariably.....they suffer from some malady or other making them....because of their complexity.....prime candidates for the tip. People like JP Jones, I see as the saviours of our glorious great vintage DD turntables....🤗 |
@lewm
Nothing Fawlty about my logic.
Chakster, the person whom you quote here has got to be Thuchan. Who else owns such a collection of vintage turntables?
great, i was not sure, but expected that it must a person related to audiogon. Well the last working unit i saw was $1200 + shipping, sold quickly. Good to know JP Jones can fix them if needed. |
Nothing Fawlty about my logic.
Chakster, the person whom you quote here has got to be Thuchan. Who else owns such a collection of vintage turntables? Moreover, in one of the articles, I am "Lewis". I gave Thuchan a chip to repair his TT101. And what Australian could he possibly be referring to, if not our own Halcro? If I read his words carefully, it seems to me that Thuchan is only saying the TT101 compared surprisingly well to the Denon DP100. He does not really say he likes it better than his EMT and M-S, and I don't think he owns an SP10 Mk3 or L07D. Whereas, I do. Like Thuchan, I bought my TT101 in "broken" condition off eBay, believing at the time that I would find a way to fix it. The saving grace is that I paid very little for it, because of its non-working condition. Elsewhere on these pages, I documented the saga that took nearly 3 years before I now can boast of having a working TT101, thanks finally to JP Jones. It's a great table, no doubt. It's numero uno in my second system. The Mk3 and L07D hold sway in my primary system, but guess which system I listen to most of the time; yes, the secondary one. The timing is nothing short of immaculate. and that, after all, is the main thing that a turntable has to do well. Beyond that, it's all about mass and damping.
I think you can find a working unit for around $1000, give or take. And thanks to the existence of JP, you can probably buy a broken one with some degree of confidence that he can fix the electronics. (Missing parts, damaged or burnt out motor, no no.) |
I want to get back to Victor TT-101 discussion. Here is some nice info from the guy who restored this complex turntable. And this is another post from the same author, where he comparing TT-101 to some serious machines like Denon 100, big Micro SEIKI and the EMT R80 (927). The winner in his report was the refurbished Victor TT-101, so i wonder what the price would be for this marvelous turntable in fully working condition (not yet refurbished) and is it possible to find TT-101 in working condition or all of them must be refurbished ? If this deck can beat Denon DP-100, Technics SP10mk3, EMT, Kenwood L-07D then it must be very expensive? BTW i like this round plinth for TT-101 linked in the gallery in that review. |
Lew, matter? Only if you need to book a room at Faulty Towers. ;^)
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I had a moment of doubt myself. Google seemed to indicate "Jonathan", but my instinct told me "John". I obviously chose Google over instinct. Today Google agrees with you and my instinct as well. I don't know what I was looking at yesterday. Does any of this matter?
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PS. No need to do the Jonathan Cleese imitation. But do bring the parrot with you. Lewm, The gentleman you are referring to from Monty Python is John Cleese, no such person as Jonathan Cleese with respect to Monty Python. Cheers |
PS. No need to do the Jonathan Cleese imitation. But do bring the parrot with you. |
JP hangs out here once in a while. Or else I think I have his email address. Or failing even that, he may have a website under Fidelis Analog. He's a very straightforward guy, so go for it.
Found it: JP@fidelisanalog.com
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Lewm, exactly like Monty! :-))). Can I write directly to JP Jones at Fidelis? |
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Chakster, Mark seems to have a "no-speed" problem, not an "off-speed" problem. His PD444 is dead. To paraphrase the Monte Python description of a dead parrot, it's an "un-turntable". |
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Mark, Please see up the thread where I have mentioned many times the fact that JP Jones is good with these problematic gems. I don't know if JP ever worked on a PD444, but he is a fast learner, especially if you can dig up a schematic. JP posts here, too. His business is called Fidelis Analog, located in NYC. Also, Dave Garretson, another member of this forum, owns a PD444; Dave is a pretty smart guy as well. Best of luck; your PD444 is worth the effort and cost to make it run again. |
Hello fellow audiogoners
I have a Luxman PD-444 which is dead for all practical purposes: the light are on but nobody's home. I have re-capped it - no change. Can anybody fix it? Cosmetically it's only fair, so I'm thinking if repairs are too much I may sell it as is... I couldn't find any schematics or service manuals on it.
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In Italy no GT 2000 has ever been imported nor even the older brothers.
Great pity. |
Theophile, Please understand that the question of the gunmetal platter on a GT2000 or 2000X is not on my front burner, as I do not own any Yamaha turntable. Thus I confess only to being human and to having forgotten our previous discussion. In fact, after I posted my previous comment, it did occur to me that we have covered this ground before. Mea culpa.
Also, you seem to think that I dismiss the possibility that the 18kg platter was a significant upgrade to performance. I do not and did not. But because of its far greater mass compared to the standard platter, I personally would not run the 18kg platter unless I had the version of the GT2000(X) with the larger bearing assembly. Personal preference aside, I also don’t think I ever asserted that the 18kg platter could not be used with the standard bearing, if one wanted to do that.
You may also like to know that I have advised others not to purchase a GT750 or any other lesser model of vintage Yamaha DD in the belief the lesser model would be "just as good" as a GT2000. I agree with your assessment of the relative merits, based on data, not personal experience. I have also mentioned here that, because our son has worked and lived in Tokyo for nearly 10 years, I am a fairly frequent visitor. I can attest that the GT2000 is not rarely seen in high end emporia that sell vintage used merchandise. (Typically, the ones I have seen in the flesh were a priori "sold" to some other lucky buyer, before I got there.) They also turn up on Hifido more often than a Pioneer Exclusive P3 or Sony PS-X9, for examples. This is evidence that the GT2000 was very popular when it was current, among Japanese aficionados.
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The third paragraph should read:
The GT 2000x was a limited edition release at a premium price. |
What should also be clarified at this point is that the standard platter for the GT 2000x was the 6.5Kg aluminium platter.
The GT 2000/2000L were released in 1982. Both were designed, let's get that clear, designed to deal with the 18Kg gunmetal platter. Let's also get the following clear, with or without the optional outboard power supply. The stock standard GT 2000 and GT 2000L were designed to deal with the gunmetal platter.
The GT 2000x came onto the market in 1985. 3 years after the GT 2000/2000L. 3 years after the gunmetal platter. The GT 2000 was a limited edition release at a premium price. The problem for Yamaha was that the GT 2000x competed with its own wildly successful GT 2000 which was close to one third the price. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that Yamaha didn't sell all of the 2000x models manufactured.
The GT 2000 is the single most popular( read: high sales figures) Ultra Direct Drive ever sold in Japan. You have to hear one to understand the reason for that. In bare-bones stock form it is a remarkably good sounding turntable, even in comparison with any other Ultra Direct Drive. I am not saying it was the best, I'm just saying that it is a remarkably good sounding turntable in stock form. The Japanese obviously were very impressed with it.
There are a number of bonuses which accompany the stock bare-bones Yamaha GT 2000. It can be sonically upgraded by purchasing the optional extras. The GT 2000 is no slouch in bare bones form. When the optional outboard power supply is added(even to the stock 6.5Kg platter) the sound quality takes a decent advance. Supposedly the 18Kg gunmetal platter takes things much further again.
The original release price of the bare-bones stock standard GT 2000 in 1982 was 130,000 yen. The original release price of the optional 18 Kg YGT-1 gunmetal platter for the GT 2000 in 1982 was 120,000 yen. That's right; The 18Kg gunmetal platter cost almost as much as the entire price of the stock GT 2000. Consider also that the optional 18Kg gunmetal platter for the stock GT 2000, once purchased, rendered the leftover stock 6.5 Kg platter superfluous and essentially worthless. Despite costing almost as much as the entire stock turntable and rendering the stock platter superfluous, Yamaha sold lots of the gunmetal platters also. Surely that wouldn't be the case if the gunmetal platter made little or no difference? Surely word of mouth would have established that the expensive gunmetal platter was not worth purchasing? Quite the opposite happened. The Japanese embraced the now twice as expensive combination of Yamaha GT 2000 with YGT-1 gunmetal platter. OK the gunmetal platter did not sell in the same numbers as the stock GT 2000, but it did sell very well for such an expensive accessory. Obviously there had been an overwhelmingly positive reaction to the addition of the gunmetal platter by the Japanese buying public. Many wanted a GT 2000 and a substantial number of GT 2000 owners wanted to pay almost as much again for the gunmetal platter.
Fast forward 35 years, and we see that the prices for the gunmetal platters on the second-hand market have skyrocketed to between 2 and 3 times the price of the second-hand stock GT 2000. Again, with the hindsight of 35 years, don't you think that should the gunmetal platter make little or no difference to the performance of the stock GT 2000 that either there would be no movement of the second-hand market price or that it would have fallen in value? The gunmetal platter did sell in smaller numbers than the stock GT 2000, so it can be argued that the increase in value seen in second-hand gunmetal platters is solely down to the rarity factor. What has to be taken into account is that many of the other optional accessories for the GT 2000 are more rare than the gunmetal platter, yet their second-hand prices have not doubled or tripled. This tends to deflate the validity of the "gunmetal platter rarity solely responsible for the price increase" argument.
The GT 2000 is the dark-horse of the Ultra Direct Drive second-hand market only in the non-Japanese countries. That simply because it has no market presence of 35 years in non-Japanese countries to have established its reputation. Everyone knows of the SP10 Mk III despite its rarity. The same applies to the Sony PS-X9, the Kenwood L-07D, the Nakamichi TX-1000, the Marantz TT-1000, the Micro Seiki DQX-1000, the Luxman PD-555, the Nakamichi Dragon. All of these top of the line Ultra Direct Drive turntables received multiple reviews in many countries. This established them as High-End turntables in a world where belt drive was lauded and direct drive was demonised in many markets. The GT 2000 essentially never existed for the past 35 years outside of Japan. In Japan the opposite is the fact. The GT 2000 is well known and well loved. Despite thousands of them selling in Japan, when they appear on the Japanese second-hand market, the GT 2000 does not languish struggling to find buyers. They are snapped up within weeks if not days. Surely that would not be the case if the GT 2000 was over-hyped or especially vastly inferior to other Ultra Direct Drive turntables?
The GT 2000 still has very,very few Western owners. I know of less than 30 worldwide, despite keeping an eye on these numbers. Of those I am by an order of magnitude the most recognised internet author of posts about the GT 2000( a situation which is not due to my needing that reputation). I tend to prefer to respond to threads about either the GT 2000 or Ultra Direct Dive turntables. There is a lot of misunderstanding about the GT 2000. The biggest fallacy is that the GT-750 is the equal of the GT 2000. One only needs to look at the Japanese HiFiDo site. It has more than 20 GT-750s for sale at half the price of the GT 2000, some of which have been listed for nearly 1 year. It would seem that the Japanese aren't interested in the GT 750 at half the price of the GT 2000, at all. They ignore them. The Japanese buyer votes with their wallet on the issue of the GT 750 being the equal of the GT 2000.
lewm, I have repeatedly stated here that the gunmetal platter is suitable for the stock GT 2000. You have repeatedly reiterated that the gunmetal platter needs the GT 2000x. Please understand the truth of the matter.
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