Vintage DD turntables. Are we living dangerously?

Richardkrebs
The thermal expansion "problem" has been grossly overstated.

So what are we left with,the stylus moving a 4 or 5lb pod?

Time to exit this carousel.

My guess is that Zaahs phone is about to get a few busy signals.

I also have the Victor pigskin mat that came with the TT-101
but have ever only used it on top.

Perhaps I need to get out more often.

Well it seems both figures are as stated.

My original Japanese copy TT-101 1.2kg and the QL-10/TT-101 on TVK 1.8kg do show conflicting figures. Never noticed the
discrepancy before.

I would not recommend running without the platter,often will cause lots of issues with speed lock etc and possible damage.

As to the issues was the table shipped with the platter mounted?

From your description you may have damage to the
platter ie lost tolerance of the mating area due excessive
shock.
The scraping is yet to be determined likely related to what caused the platter deformation issue.

Not a great way to start your Victor experience.

Doron

First glad you no longer have the platter scraping issue.

Yes the spindle on my TT-101 has a small amount of upward
movement perhaps 1/16?

Lewm

As to whether anyone cares how you are making out with your intermittent TT-101, at least other owners myself included, have been following your on again off again saga.

Always nice to have options if the same issue arises.

Regarding ringing of the platter, be sure that on the underside of the platter resides the OEM rubber ring like "mat"

Over time the bonding can loosen and the damping rubber ring will come lose, without this material the platter is better suited to announce the second coming.

If any direct comparisons were to be made between the RP and Redline products and I'm not sure they were, varying viscosity's certainly would make them suspect.

Fleib
How do you think these Yamaha's stack up?

There certainly are many GT-2000 owners about, as to how they
stack up there was a thread that Jcarr posted regarding a {Japan forum} where a Victor motor designer who had a hand in the GT2000 design pursued the Yamaha and ended up taking it home.

I thought it a rather fitting endorsement.

Found it
Jcarr
There is an interesting Japanese webpage by a retired JVC engineer, in which he talks about his involvement in designing the motor drive and controller circuits for the slotless DD motor of Yamaha's GT-2000.

note, several pages
http://37282.diarynote.jp/200708032337340000/

Fleib
Mild edge warps looked exaggerated and it seemed that repositioning the record didn't correct.

The weight of the album did not flatten the warps in the mat? Seeing it is <2mm and pliable you'd think it would.

Or perhaps the diameter of the mat extended past the platter where the wave's were present.

Thuchan
What is the disadvantage of stand alone armpods and why is it crucial that there is a connection between armpod and table?

This subject was a bone of contention here previously with the Train
analogy front and center. I will leave it at that.

Halcro

I think it's the number of joints and the sheer complexity of their locations plus the triple layer stack of PCBs which must flex whenever they are handled for servicing that is the real problem.

You hit the proverbial nail on the head, the hole bugaboo regarding DD IC failures {in this case} should be finally put to rest.

I have had my Victor TT-101 mounted in an open bottom plinth
and currently am building one where it will be entirely
enclosed.
Has anyone experienced elevated temperatures where some form of venting should be built in?

Vent holes on say the bottom plate likely will do little since
there's no where for the heat to exit on the way up.

So an open bottom is the best I can do, even though the plinth
depth leaves none of the can exposed.

Halcro
Is the colour of your mat black or is that just the way it appears in your pic?
The one that I have is tan.

On the topic of chips a fellow is doing some interesting work
on the SP10MKIII's and reworking some no longer available and susceptible to failure parts.

Great to have someone spend that much time and effort for
the relatively small numbers of tables it is applicable to.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/new-technics-sp-10-mk3.659118/page-10

lewm
Totem, Please do keep us posted.

JP has given me permission to post a contact regarding the SP10MKIII
chip design.
 jp@fidelisanalog.com

lewm
   .

What I don't get is whether the guy who figured this out and went to the trouble of creating a PCB, on which to mount his circuit that replaces the single chip that "runs" a Mk3, is selling or is going to sell the PCBs along with instructions on how to stuff the board.

    

The maker JP does intend to sell the board for use in the SP10MKIII's
and I have inquired as to contacting and selling, and will post his reply.
       

 JP thanks for Jumping in on the discussion.

JP
If you ever get tired of your SP10MKIII endeavors, there are
a few anxious owners of Victor TT101,s hanging about.

The thread posted by Halcro previously "audio16" shows what
its all about.
Lewm has one that is currently not operable.

For those that had expressed an interest in obtaining a revised chip set for
for their SP10 MKIII,s and other Technics tables JP is now shipping.
 

http://fidelisanalog.com/product/mn6042/

 

Patience grasshopper.

Lewm
None other than JP of Technics chip fame.

Very nice, looking forward to hearing what was needed and any
 anecdotal information.

Perhaps JP will chime in on the TT101?

Lewm
"I cannot figure out how to PM you."

Nor can I, is it even possible on this forum?

dd
The Denon DP-80 has the saucer shape like the Victor TT-101. In fact the Victors copied the Denon look. I have a copy of the DP-80 mounting template.

Was it the chicken or the egg with regards to the copying.
But we won't get into just who did the manufacturing and design not that it matters.

Lewm
  I didn't want to comment on finally getting your TT101 going
until you had a chance to put a little mileage on it.

Not that I'm superstitious, but I did drink from the opposite side
of my coffee cup.

Glad your enjoying it!
 

lewn
Regarding the GT 2000 I  have never had the chance to hear one although a year or so back there was one for sale that I did consider
purchasing.
On another forum the GT 2000 is held in high regard
but with no direct comparisons to the tables that have been discussed
here Lo7D, TT101, SP10MK3 .
The only other thing to mention is the Blog originally posted by J Carr from the Victor engineer who was originally tasked to work on the GT2000, and then many years later in retirement made a point of
searching out one to purchase.
I do believe the GT2000 uses a coreless motor and Bi Directional
speed control.
The blog link was originally posted here by J Carr some time ago.

fleib
The Sony TTS-8000 and PS-X9 have a great reputation.

You would not have to twist my arm much to take either one.
I ended up with the very first DD Sony produced a TTS -2250 drive only, which was at its introduction marketed against the original
SP-10 . From that point on I have always appreciated the Sony's
in the subsequent series.

lewn
 Does the heftier bearing indicate also a more massive platter.

Not always, the big boy Gunmetal platter was an  $$ option that could be fitted on either model but more often than not found its way to the
to the X model.
The fracturing on portions of the OEM arms was due to a breakdown over time of the pot metal or something similarly used. 

chakster
Which material should i look for the best quality (for my plinth) ?

As noted Panzerholz is hit and miss regarding availability, another option to Baltic birch is Bamboo ply which is dense and relatively heavy.
If you have cabinet shops local, check to see if you can purchase some and or have them cut it up if they are so inclined. 

Lewm
  I second the recommendation to remove the bearing nut and inspect
the oil condition along with the  [plastic]  wear plate.

In other tables the wear plate is often changed due to dimpling
and the resultant change in tolerance. 
 

Lewm
 Had you given any consideration to reversing the bearing wear pad
when you made your adjustments?

lewm

Totem,
Yes, I thought about it. But the evidence of any wear at all on the thrust pad is so minimal.

Nor I, as hardly any wear. Likely both relatively moderate usage.

halcro
it would be better to mechanically connect it but at this stage, I don't know how?

🤔
Pretty much as fleib mentioned, the way to go and its not that difficult
would be to start by getting 3 threaded inserts, 1 diamond bit [hollow core] that is slightly larger than the insert od drill at low speed with water lubrication. Partially fill the hole with an epoxy, tape over the bottom of the insert to prevent epoxy filling the insert. Place the 3 fasteners
in the rim of of the TT, lower the table and start the fasteners into the threaded inserts while the epoxy is still setting up there by centering
the inserts to the fasteners.
Use a slow setting epoxy to give yourself more time, and have an extra set of hands, one to lower the TT into position but not all the way down, and another to start the aligning threading operation.

I was sent a few pictures of a boxed TT-101 with the original bits and pieces yesterday, regarding the deer skin mat that Victor produced,
it was shown in its original package included with the Table.

So I can confirm that it was an item that was included with the TT-101.

lewm
  It has not been placed on the market as of yet, and mine is in very good nick so seems unlikly I would take the plunge.
This is the first time I have personally seen an original boxed TT-101
with all the bits
I also have a new TT-101 plinth 95% finished that will determine any future table decisions.
The current owner is well known and I will leave it up to them to comment further.

halcro
 The pictures I have seen show the original rubber mat on the platter
and the other in its original packaging.





 

pb
Totem - where is this TT101 located ?

If I was at liberty to say I surely would have said.

lewm

 I must have missed any previous mention of your plinth adventures 
regarding the QL-10/TT-101.

My new plinth for the TT-101 is a modified Artisan Fidelity "style" CLD 
design with sub plates to raise the 2 arm boards done in Rosewood.
I'm really enjoying getting back into woodworking.

Unfortunate that this site is stuck in the dark ages when it comes to some of the common niceties like pictures, messaging etc etc.

No experience with the UA7045, that is the shorter of the series 
the other being UA7--85 or something?

Having mentioned seeing some pictures of a boxed TT-101 some time
ago and confirming the leather type mat being a originally supplied item,
member JP has publicly posted pictures of his find.

http://fidelisanalog.com/2016/11/25/barn-find-victor-tt-101/

JP and I had a conversation regarding his TT-101 outer rim not being painted but brushed, where as mine and others we have seen are the painted version.

His serial # is shown in the pic's so I'm curious if anyone has a later serial # than that shown and is painted. Unfortunately the location 
is awkward to see if mounted in a plinth.

halcro
Mine is 10200997  much closer to the one JP has, but painted.
So it looks like sometime after mine and before JP's they Victor made 
the change.

Most often serial # are coded to indicate things like day, month,year
and even production line.
Decode the numbers and all will be told.

Just to clarify the above posts the Victor TT-81 Japan 100 volt drive only, is the JVC N.A. 115 volt QL8, that was supplied with a plinth and an arm.

halcro
Curious if your teck has been inside a TT-101 before?

lewm

To say that the P3 suspension, which looks like that of a modern sports car in terms of complexity, is not like an LP12 suspension,

First thing the P3's suspension reminded me of was the 
Denon DP100. 
A member was recently rebuilding the Denons and sent me some pic's.

raul

The 100M comes with its own tonearm that was designed in specific for the DP-100

I have seen a DP-100 with what appeared to be an OEM cast
SME arm plate so it seems other arms were an option made available.

audioL
 I'm looking for the best possible vintage table for the kr 9600.

If you want to stay with Kenwood then that's the
 L07D otherwise keep your eye open for another winner.

Just put a few pictures of my plinth for the Victor TT-101 
on my system page Rosewood CLD construction.

. My model is a sample version..... It does not seem to brushed aluminum and anodized but left natural finish,

This is only the second mention of the non-brushed version
I have come cross, JP was the other and question the "sample"
description as it seems odd.

I also know Siri has no hair, but the Statements made without
ever listening to the tables in question by Raul are simply
without merit.

And I won't even get into his TT-101 comments.