Chakster, Mark seems to have a "no-speed" problem, not an "off-speed" problem. His PD444 is dead. To paraphrase the Monte Python description of a dead parrot, it's an "un-turntable".
Vintage DD turntables. Are we living dangerously?
I have just acquired a 32 year old JVC/Victor TT-101 DD turntable after having its lesser brother, the TT-81 for the last year.
TT-101
This is one of the great DD designs made at a time when the giant Japanese electronics companies like Technics, Denon, JVC/Victor and Pioneer could pour millions of dollars into 'flagship' models to 'enhance' their lower range models which often sold in the millions.
Because of their complexity however.......if they malfunction.....parts are 'unobtanium'....and they often cannot be repaired.
TT-101
This is one of the great DD designs made at a time when the giant Japanese electronics companies like Technics, Denon, JVC/Victor and Pioneer could pour millions of dollars into 'flagship' models to 'enhance' their lower range models which often sold in the millions.
Because of their complexity however.......if they malfunction.....parts are 'unobtanium'....and they often cannot be repaired.
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I want to get back to Victor TT-101 discussion. Here is some nice info from the guy who restored this complex turntable. And this is another post from the same author, where he comparing TT-101 to some serious machines like Denon 100, big Micro SEIKI and the EMT R80 (927). The winner in his report was the refurbished Victor TT-101, so i wonder what the price would be for this marvelous turntable in fully working condition (not yet refurbished) and is it possible to find TT-101 in working condition or all of them must be refurbished ? If this deck can beat Denon DP-100, Technics SP10mk3, EMT, Kenwood L-07D then it must be very expensive? BTW i like this round plinth for TT-101 linked in the gallery in that review. |
Nothing Fawlty about my logic. Chakster, the person whom you quote here has got to be Thuchan. Who else owns such a collection of vintage turntables? Moreover, in one of the articles, I am "Lewis". I gave Thuchan a chip to repair his TT101. And what Australian could he possibly be referring to, if not our own Halcro? If I read his words carefully, it seems to me that Thuchan is only saying the TT101 compared surprisingly well to the Denon DP100. He does not really say he likes it better than his EMT and M-S, and I don't think he owns an SP10 Mk3 or L07D. Whereas, I do. Like Thuchan, I bought my TT101 in "broken" condition off eBay, believing at the time that I would find a way to fix it. The saving grace is that I paid very little for it, because of its non-working condition. Elsewhere on these pages, I documented the saga that took nearly 3 years before I now can boast of having a working TT101, thanks finally to JP Jones. It's a great table, no doubt. It's numero uno in my second system. The Mk3 and L07D hold sway in my primary system, but guess which system I listen to most of the time; yes, the secondary one. The timing is nothing short of immaculate. and that, after all, is the main thing that a turntable has to do well. Beyond that, it's all about mass and damping. I think you can find a working unit for around $1000, give or take. And thanks to the existence of JP, you can probably buy a broken one with some degree of confidence that he can fix the electronics. (Missing parts, damaged or burnt out motor, no no.) |
@lewm Nothing Fawlty about my logic. great, i was not sure, but expected that it must a person related to audiogon. Well the last working unit i saw was $1200 + shipping, sold quickly. Good to know JP Jones can fix them if needed. |
Hi chakster, After the High-End Show 2017 in Munich....I spent several days in Regensburg (a scenic Bavarian town on the Danube) where I was privileged to listen extensively to Thuchan's impressive system. His Victor TT-101 was never humbled by his other great turntables including the EMT 927/R80 and his latest Caeles. The TT-101 is the only Direct Drive connected to his system as his Nakamichi TX1000, Marantz JT1000, Denon 100M and Sony PS-X9 are all 'retired'. I found a non-working 'basket-case' TT-101 for him in Canada which he was able to purchase cheaply and he had it completely rebuilt....a process which dragged on for over a year. When his technicians finally had it completed....they were unable to get it working due to a faulty main chip which they couldn't source anywhere in the world. I remembered that Lewm had written about finding some unobtanium power chips for the 101 some years ago and lo and behold.....these were the ones that Thuchan needed and thus was saved from obscurity (thanks to Lew's generosity), another TT-101 vintage deck. My own TT-101 has risen to new heights since it, and the three arm-pods have been supported by the active Herzan isolation platform. Victor TT-101 turntables only turn up about 3 or 4 times a year on eBay or Japan Yahoo but almost invariably.....they suffer from some malady or other making them....because of their complexity.....prime candidates for the tip. People like JP Jones, I see as the saviours of our glorious great vintage DD turntables....🤗 |
@halcro great that you’ve met in person in Europe. Is that the same "plinth", but glossy finish? When you say "cheaply" is that $300-500 range or lower ? Buyin this turntable in non working condition how much (roughly) the owner should invest to return it to life? I assumed it also takes too much time, not only investment. Just curious. |
Yes chakster......it's the same plinth except his is slate whilst mine is polished granite. I sent Thuchan the blueprints which he used for his slate copy... It's really hard to be definitive in the used TT-101 market.... They are so rare that their current owners 'pretend' there is nothing seriously wrong with the example they have for sale, and often price them (or go to auction in the case of Japan Yahoo) as if they are in good 'working' order... Sometimes an honest seller will contain the work "junk" in their yahoo description and yes.....you can perhaps win the auction for $300-$400. A better bet perhaps is to wait for a Canadian or US seller who admits the deck is not working and will negotiate a price between $500-$600. Buying from a 'known' re-seller in HongKong like Foxtan is not a guarantee of joy (as I found out to my regret and cost) but buying from Tommy at TopClass Audio in Hong Kong (as I finally did) is perhaps the best course. But then be prepared to pay $1500-$2000 and wait 1-2 years (as I did) for him to find a working example. But even if you DO stumble upon a real 'working' example.....you will probably find that something 'breaks' within a few months. Invariably you will need to replace all electrolytic capacitors and a few transistors and most importantly.....burn out all the old solder joints and replace with new. So if you are eventually bound to have to do all that....I would advise anyone who really wants a TT-101....to buy a 'junk' non-working model for less than $500, and send it to JP Jones for a complete restoration. I don't know how much JP Jones charges for such a service, but you would need to put more than $1,000 into a 'junk' TT-101 to have peace of mind I would imagine.... An alternative would be to buy a TT-81 for $400 on HiFiDo and live happily ever after 😁👍 |
I doubt JP wants to do a cosmetic restoration of a TT101. First, his main passion is the SP10 Mk3, for which he has re-created the vital chip (MN6042, I think) using discrete components, with specs superior to the original. (I bought one, but I still need to have JP install it. Since I espouse the "if it's not broken, don't fix it" approach, I am procrastinating.) Second, his expertise is in the electronics. I would focus him on what he does superbly well, including calibration of the drive system. Even if your DD is ostensibly "working" fine, there is a chance it could be better, more torque, more accurate servo action, if properly calibrated. JP told me that many DD's sent to him in working order are not in fact operating up to par because of poor or no calibration. (This included my TT101, which besides having a crack in the PCB was also not well calibrated.) If you re-cap your vintage DD, the next step is probably also to re-calibrate it. (I am not saying that JP is the only person on earth who can do that. Thuchan evidently found some expertise in Germany, for one example.) Chakster, The story of my TT101 cost-wise is perhaps more encouraging than Halcro's story. Mine was on eBay as part of a QL10 ensemble, which is a TT101 set into the top line Victor plinth and bearing a Victor UA7045 tonearm. The seller was honest enough to admit that the turntable was not working. I was willing to pay no more than $600 for it, on the premise that the tonearm alone is worth about that much. To my surprise, I won the auction at that price. Moreover, all pieces are in mint condition. I now think that the crack in the PCB which was causing the intermittent issues probably was there when the unit left the factory. Thus my TT101 probably saw very little use over its lifetime. I use my TT101 in the QL10 plinth after heavy modifications to the plinth, including the addition of mass and damping, using aluminum slabs bolted to the underside, and replacement of the MDF tonearm board with a custom-machined, massive, aluminum mount. I'm running a Fidelity Research FR64S in a B60 base mounted into the alu arm board. I have a slate plinth, originally made for my Denon DP80, but the hole for the DP80 is just a little bit too big or too small for the TT101. I'm quite happy with what I've got, anyway. I don't want to encourage JP to raise his prices, but his services are VERY reasonable, especially considering the fact that they are vital to our DD lovers group, as Halcro stated. |
I have a TT101 partially restored - still have a few quirks in the electronics, cosmetically however it is fully restored. Must get this done soon so I can hear what this can do compared to the other "heavies" SP10MK2 , 3 and the Higher End Denon's DP80, DP100 and the mighty DN308 - which I consider to be at the very top of the heap :-) http://pbnaudio.com/audio-turntables/vintage-direct-professional/dn308 http://pbnaudio.com/audio-turntables/vintage-direct-professional/dp80 https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/4909 Good Listening Peter |
@halcro @lewm Thanks for detailed information regarding the restoration of this deck. I'm in the middle of this thread, but i see other users turns on their tt-101 to work continuously for 1 month. That's the way to check the operation condition for those decks that are not described as junk or non-working? |
I currently have in my collection a few SP-10MK3, an NOS SP-10MK2A, DP-100, L-07D, PS-X9, TX-1000, TT-101, and an SL-1200 GAE and MK4. Oh, and a TD-224, just because I like the clockwork mechanics. Most of them are in the refurb queue, and as such I haven't been able to hear them. Some aren't complete; I'm looking for a MAX-237 for the TX-1000. Actually, that's the only one that isn't complete. I don't find the TT-101 electronics all that complicated, but the calibration procedures are a bit complex and the service manual, as they all do, gets some stuff wrong, and leaves some stuff out. The main board is beyond fragile which makes them a royal pain to work on. I've lost money on the few I've resurrected, and now won't even consider touching one for less than $1500. On the last one I had to repair a broken coil in the motor, and repair the main bearing, though that was inflicted damage. Professionally I was a technology consultant up until a month ago, when I went full-time with my top customer. Since then my free time has been nearly non-existintent, and what little I've had I've spent on my own selfish pursuits. Plus it's summer, and I'd rather be on the lake on my wakeboard! :) |
On the last one I had to repair a broken coil in the motor, and repair the main bearing, though that was inflicted damage==jpjones3318. That is my tt101. Since receiving it, I let it run for forty (40) days,24/7, and I am pleased to report that no single issue with the turntable. It is good as new and will not hesitate to recommend JP. Still in the process of making the slate plinth. I have two trials with no success. Maybe I should reach out to Halcro to get a copy of his plinth. |
@jpjones3318 hey John, before you flew away on your wakeboard, i’d like to ask your opinion about Technics SL10 and SL15 little beauties, do you have some in your collection? I've noticed one on video at Sterling Sound mastering studio visited by Mr.Fremer. |
Hi Misha, Never had my hands on an SL-10 or 15, though I certainly wouldn't mind playing with one. I’ve limited my collection, for the most part, to the absolute statement ’tables from the Japanese manufacturers, though I may sneak an EMT in the mix. These days I play with other ’tables by repairing them, if I’ve the time. |
@lewm Mine was on eBay as part of a QL10 ensemble, which is a TT101 set into the top line Victor plinth and bearing a Victor UA7045 tonearm. The seller was honest enough to admit that the turntable was not working. I was willing to pay no more than $600 for it, on the premise that the tonearm alone is worth about that much. To my surprise, I won the auction at that price. Moreover, all pieces are in mint condition. Good price, another lot like this sold for $950 (non-working) last year. |
Chakster, You asked about testing a TT101 by running it continuously. One guy who put himself out there as a DD repair expert took my TT101, plugged it in at his shop (or so he told me) and ran it for two weeks, with no issues. He then sent it back to me with the notation that it was not broken. Fact is, my problem was always intermittent. I had provided him with a detailed description of the problem, including the fact that it was intermittent, a priori, both verbally on the phone and in the context of a note that I enclosed with the turntable when I shipped it to him. But like many smug auto mechanics, and some doctors (I am embarrassed to say), he did not pay any attention to the information he was given. Needless to say, fresh out of the box from his shop and installed into my system, the problem was immediately evident once again. (For a while, my TT101 would work in our kitchen, where there is no audio system; I would then bring it to the basement to use in my secondary system, and down there, it would crash. We entertained thoughts of a weird glitch on the AC line in the basement, during that phase.) So, no, I don't necessarily assume that running the turntable for months on end is either a good idea or proof of its flawless performance. The ever kind and patient Bill Thalmann also could not make my TT101 fail in his shop on his workbench, which precluded his solving the problem. But Bill does pay attention to what customers tell him, and he has a sense of humor. By the time I found JP and sent it off to NYC, the "intermittent" problem had become much more constant. Which actually helped JP to find the occult fracture in my "fragile" PCB. (Problem was as follows: TT101 would start and go to 33.33 on the tach. Within a minute or less, it would then start to hunt for speed, showing 33.34, then 33.32. Shortly thereafter, it would stall out; the tach would go blank, and the platter would coast to a halt. The electronic brake would not activate. In about a minute, you could start it up again, and it would go through the same sequence.) |
Finished this big thread and made my notes regarding different TT-101s samples, owned by several people here. Maybe i was too optimictic when i ordered mine, but after reading all comments i’m not so happy about it. The unit if from one owner and rarely used, perfect condition, but must be fixed. The situation described below by Lew is exactly what’s going on with my Victor TT-101 right now: @lewm There is no problem in terms of displaying 33.33 or 45.00. It goes right up to display those two speeds and holds those numbers firmly. The problem is that occasionally it will go into its typical failure mode after 3-4 minutes: the tach lights go out, except for the decimal point, and the platter coasts to a stop (no brake effect). It’s as if someone pulled the plug, except the power lights are all "on". If you then re-start, it will work fine, as if nothing bad had happened... The problem with my TT101 seems at the moment only to have been a tiny crack in the main PCB, right near the edge. JP thinks it occurred during manufacture, 30-odd years ago. The circuit was only maintained by solder, and once the solder cracked (invisibly, I might add), the result was a fault in TT101 function that was manifested intermittently, depending upon stress on that PCB. There was no need to replace the SC3042 chip in mine or indeed any of the discrete transistors. Great work by JP to find this problem, only made possible by the fact that the thing finally malfunctioned in the presence of a smart guy who knew how to trace down the cause. Other such problems are being searched for, just as a precaution before I get it back. I hope this is not premature, but I am very pleased. It’s my first day to plug it and turn in on, no promlem with speed stability at all, despite the fact that it takes 2 second before the digits on display turning from 0.00 to 33.33 or 45.00 Pitch works fine, stop button works fine, power button works fine too. But i can only run it for 15 minutes, sometimes only for 1 minutу (as described by Lewm above). Actually right now it's still spinnin' for 30 min. Maybe burn-in process is important and it will run longer. Sadly i’m not in USA to send it @jpjones3318 and his time is limited now. Lew has mentioned Tuchan’s tech in Germany which is much closer. @banquo363 On my understanding of what he told me, the boards used on the victor are ‘eyelet boards’. The solder connections through such boards tended to suffer cracking. This is what happened to mine. Some of the connections are heat sensitive, and that’s why I experienced the partial resurrection a few weeks back after leaving the unit on. The cracking is not necessarily evident to the naked eye, but after resoldering the boards, the table now works flawlessly. It should be noted that changing the power supply capacitors didn’t fix any of my troubles, but some of them appeared to be leaking so it was a good idea to do so. After nearly a year of fruitless search for someone to fix my ailing Victor tt 101, I found the man of my audio dreams. His name is Dave Brown http://modularsynthesis.com/ . Second "man of audio dreams" is also in USA, too far. @halcro and @downunder Glad Chris (Kimil) helped you Downunder. His ingenuity, understanding and competence in all things audio are unequalled in my experience... I took back my TT-101 to have him adjust the variable resistors for the platter brake system. As I discovered....Victor added this feature to allow for the differing weights of various mats...and as I changed to only a thin Victor pigskin mat directly placed on the aluminium platter.....the brake system didn’t perform as required. It took Chris precisely 20 minutes to adjust them ( one for 33.3rpm and one for 45rpm). No charge...and they work perfectly.. I would waste no time in having him replace all the electrolytics in your P3. Since my TT-101 had its done....the speeds are consistently perfect. I assume Chris Kemil is Australian, well, keeping in mind the shipping price for my CU-180 for Downunder i assume it will be extremely expensive to ship the TT-101 to Oz. SO WHAT CAN I DO? Is that require some sort fo special knowlegde or experience to fix it locally with some tech? |
Hi Misha, The two seconds for the display to change is normal. If you put it in run mode you can watch it count up. It does the same in hold mode, though only updates the display at the end of the cycle - every 1.8s IIRC. If it's stopping as Lew described you've a situation where too much current is being supplied to the motor. Time won't fix this; it's likely there's a bad connection on the board. |
Chak, Your symptom sounds a bit different from mine, although maybe close enough to have the same cause. As I wrote somewhere here, my TT101 would start up fine and go to correct speed, but it would very soon thereafter start to "hunt"; the tach would show 33.32, then 33.34, etc. Very shortly after that, the tach would go dark except for the decimal point, and the platter would coast to a halt. This whole process from start to stall never took more than 2 minutes, tops. Like JP says, in "HOLD" mode, the tach stays blank until it sees the set speed; then it displays. Thus it is not abnormal to have a short time delay before the tach lights up, but at that moment, it should show the correct set speed. In RUN mode, it counts up from zero to set speed, visually from the moment you press the button, so there is no delay in that mode. Don't give up. We are not living dangerously, just frustratingly. |
SO WHAT CAN I DO? Is that require some sort fo special knowlegde or experience to fix it locally with some tech?IMO, you probably don't require a man of knowledge. What you require is someone with soldering skills and keen eyes (aided by a magnifying glass). I haven't been following this thread very closely lately, but I believe a goodly percentage of tt 101's documented on this thread have been resurrected solely by resoldering all the joints. You need to find someone who will undertake that task. And make clear to him that even if a joint appears to be fine that he should re-do it anyways. My hero, Dave Brown, called it the brute force method |
@lewm Chak, Your symptom sounds a bit different from mine, although maybe close enough to have the same cause. As I wrote somewhere here, my TT101 would start up fine and go to correct speed, but it would very soon thereafter start to "hunt"; the tach would show 33.32, then 33.34, etc. Very shortly after that, the tach would go dark except for the decimal point, and the platter would coast to a halt. Indeed, Lew. My drive "hunt" for a few seconds in the start only with "HOLD" mode (when it can be displayed 33.32 or so just for second), but then display correct 33.33 or 45.00 continuously up to 1 hour with no changes, then just "go dark except for the decimal point". So just a little difference from yours. @jpjones3318
Thanks for letting me know, hmm @banquo363 What you require is someone with soldering skills and keen eyes (aided by a magnifying glass). I haven’t been following this thread very closely lately, but I believe a goodly percentage of tt 101’s documented on this thread have been resurrected solely by resoldering all the joints. Good to know, i hope so! I will look for the proper technician locally at first. |
@halcro Regensburg in Bavaria may be closer to you chakster......That's where Thuchan's Tech resides and I've witnessed his work first-hand. It's first class and he now knows the TT-101 inside out.... The closest route, worth to visit personally, sounds good. How long it could take to fix the drive? Was in too long in your case? |
Chak, I am not sure what you are saying above, but in any case, my TT101 never went to Germany. In fact, Thuchan did not buy his TT101 until well after mine had been repaired by JP. Bill Thalmann had a shot at repairing mine, but it would not misbehave at any time in Bill's shop. I left it with him twice, in fact. That was another weird aspect of the problem. As mentioned elsewhere, it would often work well in our kitchen but not in our basement (where I have a second system that now is driven by the TT101, alternating with my Lenco). In retrospect, we can hypothesize that the fracture in the PCB tracing was causing an intermittent short which resulted in an intermittent problem that could come and go in relation to moving the turntable from place to place. Trucking it in my car on the DC beltway over to Bill's shop was good for it on the way out and bad for it on the way back to my house. (Tongue in cheek, of course.) I still have great faith in Bill. My other point would be that re-soldering all the joints did not cure the problem, because it was basically caused by a fracture in the PCB, cutting across a tracing on the PCB. JP mentioned his wider experience with the fragility of the PCBs. So, one might consider going over the PCB with a magnifying glass. Even when JP told me where to look, after he repaired mine, I could not easily see the fault or his repair of it. |
Lew, i made notes reading this thread. The source for my suggestion was your old post (see the quote below). I assume it never happened and you shipped to JP, which is great. @lewm I am also thinking hard about sending my Victor TT101 to Germany so that Thuchan’s guy can fix it, once and for all. I got an email from Thuchan today; he is thrilled with the sound of his TT101. This is a guy who owns some of the most expensive turntables in the world, so I take his praise for the TT101 very seriously. I just checked shipping quotes for 12kg parcel and Germany is affordable, USA is expensive, but Oz is terribly expensive to ship to. And that was just registered mail, not an express. So i would appreciate any help to get in toucht with Tuchan’s tech guy for consultation. I see the problem with Tuchan’s drive was different than mine, so i want to ask if he’s familiar with my problem and if it’s possible to fix and calibrate everything to keep this deck for years. Thanks |
Sorry, Chakster. Evidently my memory of the chronology of events is faulty. Your quote of my old post suggests that Thuchan's TT101 was up and running before mine. Otherwise, I would not have been "thinking hard" about sending my own TT101 to Germany, back then. However, I never did send it to Germany, because I (subsequently) found JP in NYC. Thanks for setting me straight. By any chance, do you know the date of that post you quoted? |
Sorry, Chakster. Evidently my memory of the chronology of events is faulty. Your quote of my old post suggests that Thuchan's TT101 was up and running before mine. Otherwise, I would not have been "thinking hard" about sending my own TT101 to Germany, back then. However, I never did send it to Germany, because I (subsequently) found JP in NYC. Thanks for setting me straight. By any chance, do you know the date of that post you quoted? |
All I can say is, beware of a dealer who claims to be a "good repairer" of all JVC turntables. That does not necessarily mean he can decipher a TT101. On one of my misadventures, I sent my TT101 to a guy in southern New Jersey who claimed over the phone that fixing it would be no problem at all. That didn't work out well, but he is well regarded as a service center for routine problems. |
@best-groove back in 2016 and in early 2017 you said: I got hold of a turntable JVC TT-101. My model is a sample version..... It does not seem to brushed aluminum and anodized but left natural finish, serial number 10100575 Mystery? I finished these days to restructure my Mk2 working about 18 months but only in limited time ....... but I’m happy because everything is back exactly like new.After a while I will also restore the TT-101 and aesthetically and electronically have big problems and is not perfect... As soon as I finish restoring a pair of 10-SP II I will pass to the restoration of a TT101 does not work, is completely broken and given to me for free.So I’ll have to completely take it apart piece by piece and I can see and understand what the state is spindle and thrust pad.You will need a major revision to electronics, I hope they are not IC failures. Any luck with your TT-101? |
Seachin’ on youtube i found two videos of tt-101 from the same user, in this video his tt-101 is broken, but in the next video his tt-101 is fixed and properly working. The youtube username is yoshikgw9999 and there are only two videos on his channel. Who’s that? One of us, but undercover agent? :) |
@aigenga long time ago you posted this: At this moment my TT101 is out for recapping and contact cleaning at a local (Brooklyn, NY) pro audio repair shop - RepairNY.com I might have waited too long to get it recapped as a warm up suddenly became necessary to achieve speed stability. Needless to say I am nervous about getting my baby back and running well. An update on the recapping of my TT-101. I just spoke with the tech and he says that he will only be changing out the caps in the power supply section, not all of the small ones on the regulation boards. His take is that the large ones should be changed from time to time but the tiny ones will not cause any problems. Anybody have a point of view on that? I have my TT101 back and running once again. The tech changed out 8 capacitors, and I saw that the old ones were quite leaky. I dodged a bullet on that one. Cost was $150 including labor, parts, and tax.How is the situation with your TT-101 now? |
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