I have just acquired a 32 year old JVC/Victor TT-101 DD turntable after having its lesser brother, the TT-81 for the last year. TT-101 This is one of the great DD designs made at a time when the giant Japanese electronics companies like Technics, Denon, JVC/Victor and Pioneer could pour millions of dollars into 'flagship' models to 'enhance' their lower range models which often sold in the millions. Because of their complexity however.......if they malfunction.....parts are 'unobtanium'....and they often cannot be repaired.
Rwwear Many years ago I made a leather chamois mat for one of my home brew TTs I purchased a car cleaning chamois from an auto parts store. A few dollars from memory. I agree with Banquo that the best results were with the suede side up. Dont know how this option would compare with the real thing, but it's not going to break the bank giving it a try.
Guys, its pretty simple, from the main Audiogon page, not the forum page we are on now, go to the Explore tab under which theres a sub tab labeled member look up, enter the moniker you want to look up and hit search, then once the member is found click on the moniker to the left of the 2 feedback boxes and you will open a new screen on which there is the specifics of the member including a contact tab.
Peter, that's very good of you. JT did my initial calibrations but with him gone I don't know anyone now with the test gear to do it. I suspected it would be worthwhile after the cap changes. It will be a couple of months but I'll be in touch.
Acman, In principle, I want your BA Mat2. However, being a computer klutz, I cannot figure out how to contact you from this website...
Very kind of you Lew, but it was offered to you, so if you want it you should get it. I hope you don’t mind - I took the liberty of sending your e-mail address to acman3.
pryso 03-10-2016 11:47am
Anyway, I should go ahead with the ’lytic replacements in my Technics since as JP says, they are known to have reliability issues.
I recommend replacing the three motor drive caps with the next higher voltage rating. Those three take the most abuse in the chassis. And, of course, if you recap it you’ll need to readjust the PLL to ensure it’s running right. Truthfully, most of them will be out of adjustment after 30+ years regardless.
Lewm, I don't seem to have any problems with my SP-10MK III. I just thought it would be nice to have spares of the 6042 chip since so many other units use them too. I have a friend who has many SP-10MK II units that need work also.
Lew, thanks for correcting my faulty recollection of work on your SP-10 Mk 2. I suspect my memory may contain some electrolytics which have faded and lost their value. ;^)
Anyway, I should go ahead with the 'lytic replacements in my Technics since as JP says, they are known to have reliability issues.
RW, I don't know about those Alibaba sources for an MN6042, but it seems to me that if you need MN6042 these days, it's a no-brainer to connect with JP and purchase his reconstruction of an MN6042 on a PCB made from discrete parts. It outperforms the stock MN6042, and my direct experience tells me that JP will stand behind it, should you have a problem. Moreover, having JP install it also gets you a calibration of the 3-phase motor drive in the bargain. Obviously, I am not affiliated with JP in any way; I am just a satisfied customer. (Sounding like a cheerleader, I know.)
Acman, In principle, I want your BA Mat2. However, being a computer klutz, I cannot figure out how to contact you from this website. When I click on your moniker, it takes me to a page that does not offer the possibility of sending an email. Further, JP seems also to be interested in your mat. Since he has been so patient and diligent in finding the gremlin in my TT101, perhaps I could do him a small favor in return by ceding my place in line to JP. So, you and JP can get together on that. If JP should change his mind, I do wish to acquire it.
Of course, if my TT101 crumps again in the next few weeks, JP has to send me the mat, along with a crying towel. (Joke alert.)
Hi guys, I've been busy doing some architecture for the last 5 weeks so haven't had time to drop by a lot. Great to hear about Lew's TT-101 and wonderful to have Peter and JP helping out with the big Victor. I have to agree with Banquo about the Victor pigskin mat http://i.imgur.com/OvDW2EZ.jpg although where you might find one.....who knows. The Victor pigskin mat can be initially a shock for those who haven't experienced the extreme purity of the TT-101 and its presentation. I've tried over a dozen mats and another dozen combinations of mats....but ultimately return to the Victor. For those who trust the Victor engineers....ask yourself how and why they found the need to develop this specific exotic solution designed to sit on their Laboratory Series bare cast aluminium platters 🤓❓ I'll have more to say about platter mats when I complete my current project. Vive the Japanese DD uber decks. Long may they live..🎧
I own that combo but don't really care for the glass. Just put the skin suede side up and as far as mats go for this table it's virtually unbeatable IMO. Halcro was the first to sing the praises of the pig, and I follow him.
I used a BA Mat 2 with my (now sold) technics sp10 2. It was a great match. I don't recall exactly why I sold the mat but seeing as the tt 101 followed the technics, it may have been because I didn't like it with the tt 101? I suspect the tt 101 does not like too much weight on it. I briefly owned the TTM Mat 2 and matching oil damped stabilizer (a very weighty combo), and the victor did not like them at all.
The only problem with the Victor pigskin is availability; it's quite difficult to find. 47 Laboratory sells a pigskin mat that looks promising (you can find it on the bay). I own their deerskin mat and it's good...but not as good as the victor.
JP’s philosophy is if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.
Let me add some color to that - my philosophy is if it’s not less than optimal, not prone to known reliability issues, etc. then don’t "fix" it.
My MN6042 upgrade wasn’t borne out of the need to replace failed parts, but due to the fact that every stock part I measured performed poorly.
chakster 03-09-2016 5:02pm
@lewm I use Micro CU-500 on my SP10 mk2 Where did you find BA Mat2 ?
I bought one new six months ago. I think it was somewhere around the 23rd page of a Google search I found a little online store in Italy that actually had one in stock. Sadly, their last one.
Dear Tim (Pryso), Actually I myself re-capped my SP10 Mk2. And I did not replace diodes or rectifiers, as the Mk2 had no problems ever. (I sold it after purchasing the Mk3.) When I acquired the Mk3, I did turn that over to Bill Thalmann who re-capped it and calibrated it as well. To my knowledge, he replaced no other parts, but considering the cost of his work in that instance, he may have replaced other parts. Somewhere in there, Bill also replaced the main chip in my Denon DP80 and all its electrolytics, too. In the process, he noticed that the discrete transistors in the DP80 were of a type he knew to be unreliable and also inferior to a modern equivalent part. He then took it upon himself to update all those transistors in the DP80. This brings us to the TT101. So far as I know, none of the diodes in the TT101 needed to be replaced. One might go to Schottky diodes, simply because they are the lowest in noise, but I am never going to open up my TT101 again, so long as it is working. I am so done with fretting. If one were to change the diodes, the new ones would likely have a different forward voltage drop than the originals. This would result in a very slightly different output DC voltage from the PS. You'd need to re-calibrate the voltages, at a minimum. Possibly, you'd have to recalibrate the motor as well. It's not trivial to do that. JP's philosophy is if it's not broken, don't fix it. I went along with that.
I was thinking last night that we collectively have made the world much safer for vintage DD turntables over the course of this thread. We now know about Bill, Peter, and JP. We know we can get most of the supposedly unobtainable ICs and discrete transistors for the major brands. Thanks to Halcro for starting us on this journey.
Today I went to buy a Boston Audio Mat2 for my TT101, only to find that it is out of production. What are guys using? I really like the Mat2 on my Mk3 and the Mat1 on my Lenco.
I believe you mentioned Peter that among the DD tables you've restored your list included a SP-10 Mk2. I have one which has been calibrated and seems to be functioning fine, but I'm pushing my luck by not yet having replaced all the electrolytic caps. Now I believe Lewm said his tech replaced some diodes along with the electrolytics. So for the benefit of Technics owners could you share if you found need to replace anything more than the caps?
I think the two IC’s that are the hardest to find are the SC3042 and the TC5001 The rest of them are readily available today, Counters, Flip Flops, etc. I did a check on the third CMOS IC IC602 (C14046) that one is available even as a surface mount today.
As far as "designing" a replacement board, I think this is not feasible, of course for someone with a lot of time one his/her hands, it should be do able.
The replacement transistors for the ones used extensively in the TT101 2SA628A and 2SC711A I have replaced them with the Fairchild KSA992 and KSC1845 - they appear to be working as suitable replacements - although I still have several issues with the salvage TT101 I bought, more to follow on that.
Banquo, I am trying to figure out how to fit the TT101 into either of my two audio systems. The question is complex, because the first thing I want to do is to audition my Fidelity Research FR64S tonearm, for the first time since I bought it several years ago. It's ready to roll, on the QL10 plinth for the TT101. This means I want to use a low compliance cartridge, which means a low output cartridge. That won't work on my basement system, because the phono stage there is strictly MM and I don't own a SUT. Plus, I am very fond of the Lenco/Dynavector DV505 on that system. Upstairs, I have 3 turntables already set up. One of them will have to go into storage, most likely the Denon DP80.
Good for you Lewm. I hope it was all worth the trouble. You own some other very nice DD tables and I for one look forward to reading how the tt 101 compares.
Banquo, If you hear differences in the sound of your analog based on the brand and source of your step-down transformer, THAT would be worth reporting here, provided that the inferior sounding step-down was not in any way malfunctioning. Come to think of it, I am not sure that my SDTs were made in China; I only assume that to be the case, because isn’t everything these days made in China? Could be Japanese as well.
On a more newsworthy note: UPS delivered my TT101 back from JP tonight. It works!!!!! Of course, it has worked in the past only to fail eventually. But this time JP got to work on it when it was in failure mode, which allowed him to trace the problem to a probable source. And he fixed that issue. So I have reason to be optimistic.
Made in the usa, but likely just as good as Lewm's chinese step downs. :). It doesn't vibrate and doesn't heat up and neither does the gear connected to it. Having said that, I just bought a japanese made step down, partly because it is Japanese but primarily because I needed more outlets. I'm curious to see whether there are sonic diferences btw the two.
Peter, I thought I noticed that not one but several other ICs appeared to be used in the TT101. However, all seemed to be of the same type, based on cursory examination. Is this the one you've now got? How many would hypothetically be needed to re-do an entire TT101 circuit, assuming that one would need several of one kind? Thanks.
Just procured a batch of the other unobtanium IC for the Victor TT101- IC813 the Toshiba TC5001 - had to buy ten of them so anyone should need one in the future I have a stash :-)
Just for semantic reasons, I should have written "EVERYTHING", instead of "ANYTHING", in my comment above. Of course, any one thing made in China could be "crap", but not everything is.
Note: "Made in Western Germany". So that step-down transformer is at least 25 years old. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But this is to say that I don't think it's fair to dismiss ANYTHING made in China as "crap". I've got two 117V to 100V step-downs made in China, both from the same source and of the same type, that are nicely made and have held up for more than 5 years each. They don't vibrate or heat up during constant use. The best bet is to make sure the step-down or -up is over-rated for the power demand. As long as that's the case, you should be oK.
Ironically, there was once a time in the post-WW2 USA when Japanese-made products were looked down upon in much the same way as many of us now view Chinese manufacturing.
Moving the power supply out of the TT101 should be fairly easy as its treated as a separate entity inside the TT101, the transformer and the +5VDC and the +/-12VDC regulators are on a separate board which supplies the Motor control board via a 5 wire harness (J6). All this could be made into a separate external high quality power supply. If theres an interest in this I could possibly design and make one, just like I did for the SP10MK2. http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649235872-technics-sp10mk2-upgraded-power-supply-by-pbn-audio/
That being said the transformer in the TT101 is a torrid it is potted and mounted in a steel can so JVC took great care isolating it, if its worth the extra trouble i don't know. I don't think it would be a good idea moving the entire circuitry of the plinth, there's a lot to consider, the interface for an example (pushbuttons / LED / readout). This took quite some time to do on the Denon's that we offer as a product http://pbnaudio.com/audio-components/audio-turntables/groovemaster/groovemaster-vintage-direct
Im still working on repairing the TT-101 i bought, someone earlier had done a terrible job "re capping / repairing" it so theres some work to do. Ill keep everyone posted as to its outcome. I will make a nice looking plinth for the TT-101 once I get it functional.
Tomorrow Ill finish up my SP10MK3 - looking greatly forward to that one.
Aigenga, Vibrations and EMI can come from the power transformer more than anything else. It would not be much of a trick to re-mount it outside the chassis on a separate base. And you might be able to do it with the rectifiers and filter capacitors that together with the transformer constitute the power supply. However, I would be very leery of moving those servo and motor control circuit boards off-chassis. Peter already told me privately that he sees this as a bit of a problem with the TT101, whereas you may know that he did do it successfully for the DP80 in the context of his aftermarket plinth. I too will be interested in his take on moving the circuitry off-chassis, once he solves the problems with his unit.
While I am posting to this thread I wonder if others in our situation are keeping an eye on the latest Technics coreless dd turntable. I hate that they chose the SL1200 model to follow and hope that they will consider the SP10 model for a new even higher end offering. I see this tt as a suitable replacement if my TT-101 pulls the plug.
As you are working on setting up a TT-101 I have a question: can you consider what it would require to pull the power board and transformer out of the tin can and mount them in a separate box? I would love to do this as it is a source of both vibrations and rf emissions.
Sorry for the delay in responding - I check this thread less often than I used to. Yes, adjusting the bearing cap does change the height and your instructions are probably right. I diddled with that for quite a while but then I changed the washers that the motor unit is mounted to the frame through. Here is a response I posted on the the nude turntable thread three years or so ago where I discuss that change. It made adjusting the motor height much easier if nothing else.
Dear Peter, Forgot about the rotor, which would be a fixed to the bearing/spindle assembly. Thanks. My Kewood L07D is built like that as well, perhaps this is common to all coreless motors that more or less copies of the original Dual coreless motor.
JP is satisfied that my unit is ready to be returned to me, on Monday.
All the DD motors I've worked on, except the DP80, are made like this, the bottom cap that also holds the thrust plate for the bearing are used to adjust the rotor up / down with, which of course moves the platter up and down with it. If you screw this one too far in the the rotor can rub against the top cover of the motor. Of course this works in reverse too of you don't screw it in far enough the rotor can rub against the bottom cover of the motor as well.
What I do on all the tables I refurbish, which is quite a few by now, is to tighten the plug so the the rotor seats on the top bushing then back it of 1/4 turn before sealing it in place.
PBN, Was reading your instructions to Aigenga with interest, since I think I may have a go at cleaning and lubricated the bearing in my unit, once I get it back. Seems to me that loosening the plug, which I assume means turning it counter-clockwise, would have the effect of lowering the bearing/spindle/platter such that the outer edge of the platter might ultimately rub against the escutcheon that surrounds the upper level circuitry and the tachometer and switches. "Tightening" the plug, which would make it move upward into the chassis, would seem to me to be the way to relieve that condition. This, I think, is the opposite of what you wrote. However, since you may have worked this out with your TT101 right in front of you, I am thinking that maybe I do not understand the anatomy of the TT101. Please by all means correct me if I am wrong in my concept of the relationships among these structural elements. Thanks.
Absolutely, the top end of the late 70's DD era will never be repeated, and many of them are still very viable contenders when it comes to proper high fidelity. The limiter is finding them in unabused condition, and knowing a good service tech if anything needs doing. Beyond this, with careful design one can build a vinyl front end comparable to any very costly current piece. I have a DP80 also, which I will base my next TT on, after the TTS 8000 is fully finished. This so rewarding when it works well..
Glad you may have got the Victor sorted, good work finding the fault by your guy..
ps68, You've independently hit upon exactly the reason I went off on a craze over these vintage dd turntables. In the end, the better ones are the best bang for the buck. Plus, the drive and rhythm that they can impart to music are addictive and unique. The best idler-drive turntables are of a similar flavor.
To all: The problem with my TT101 seems at the moment only to have been a tiny crack in the main PCB, right near the edge. JP thinks it occurred during manufacture, 30-odd years ago. The circuit was only maintained by solder, and once the solder cracked (invisibly, I might add), the result was a fault in TT101 function that was manifested intermittently, depending upon stress on that PCB. There was no need to replace the SC3042 chip in mine or indeed any of the discrete transistors. Great work by JP to find this problem, only made possible by the fact that the thing finally malfunctioned in the presence of a smart guy who knew how to trace down the cause. Other such problems are being searched for, just as a precaution before I get it back. I hope this is not premature, but I am very pleased.
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