Veiled 'wet blanket' sound from tweeters


Is it my speakers or my amp?

My gear consists of B&W PM1 with Rotel Integrated RA-1570.  

I'm experiencing a lack of detail and separation from the speakers , specifically at the tweeter source.   Switching between headphones (Grado RS1) and speakers, it is like there is a heavy blanket covering the tweeters.  Midrange/bass is fine.

Switching sources between DAC/Turntable yeilds no difference.

I'm actually wondering if the crossovers have been damaged.   

I don't really have the luxury of switching components.  Any ideas on what my next steps should be?




128x128gmckay1960
My first guess is that you have a couple of blown tweeters.  A sometimes cause of this is an amplifier driven into clipping.
I was thinking blown tweeters too...at low volume put your ear close to tweeters...
They are bi ampable, correct? Just hook up the tweeters and listen, don't turn it up..

Remove those silly jumper bars they use and add a  pair of good copper jumper wires. Just strip the ends and use that.

One will tell you if they are blown, or a crossover problem. The second will tell you is there is a poor connection (s).

Then, WHY there is a problem...What caused the problem? Overdriven or amp oscillation (clipping)..

Regards
Post removed 
Thank you all for your valuable input.  

oldhymec, definitely getting sound out of the tweeters so they are not blown.    If I can describe the difference in clarity between my headphones connected to the same amp vs. the speaker, there is far greater clarity from the high frequencies , whereas the speaker sounds veiled /muffled in that area of the audio spectrum.     

When I auditioned these speakers some 6 years earlier, they were clear as a bell...now its about 60% of what I recall.  


There’s a clue. Now if we can just pinpoint when in those 6 some years this change occurred....?
You’ve been exposed to hyper-detailed/bright headphones and now, by comparison, the speakers sound different.
OP, just make sure on the jumpers, that can cause all kinds of problems over time.. Just strip back some good copper, and get rid of the factory jumper. Dirt cheap, just to check, listen and see if there is a difference..

Check all your connections, loosen and retighten them. Plug and unplug them a few times to clean the pins, RCAs, XLRs, ICs and speaker cable if you use them, clean is good... fresh clean copper on the bi /wire/amp speaker post... They go bad.... They get dirty..

Cost nothing... LIKE MC said, did you change anything? always a clue, ay? Remember any loud pops, weird thing? anything?

Merry Christmas safe holidays, EVERYONE... Santa is on his way...

I love watching my Pup open presents.. LOL Junior too, the Bunny...

Regards
No speaker can approach the level of inner detail of good headphones for several reasons, among them:

1. The diaphragm in headphones is much smaller and lighter and can have properties which are impractical in normal driver diaphragms.

2. The power handling requirements for headphone drivers is many many times less which further contributes to how light the moving mass can be.

3. Headphones are free from room reflections which can degrade clarity.

4. The air path itself can attenuate very high frequencies, and the air path is many times shorter with headphones.  (I'm not sure that this plays a significant role in headphones vs normal stereo, but it does play a role in normal stereo vs live performances at some distance, like halfway back in a concert hall).

5. Circumaural headphones block outside noise and therefore improve the signal-to-noise ratio, which unmasks low-level detail.

Duke


"...No speaker can approach the level of inner detail of good headphones..."

It may cost you a lot more money but no headphone can compare to a really good loudspeaker system. A good loudspeaker may cost several thousand dollars to surpass a $400 headphone but they surely do. 
@russ69, I'm not advocating for headphones as being "better" than loudspeakers.  But good headphones can do some things better, and good loudspeakers can do other things better.  In my opinion good loudspeakers do a far better job of allowing the listener to suspend disbelief and get lost in the music. 

What I was trying to do was offer one possible explanation for gmckay1960's observations.  

Duke
I have a tough time with that one for me, too. Speaker are the ultimate in sound OFF my head.. LOL. Head phones  can be good, but they wear me out, no matter how comfortable... I just like digging the detail out of floor standers, mid field.. med size room.. 16X20X8 or 9 is fine.. I like to be able to hear outside the headhear too. JUST in case something is going haywire..

YUP 5 X the cost for the same small setup, have to be careful, it could be 10 times that in a quick second.. :-)

Have to get the, the "Titian of tinker", "Most for the money" Mahgister  to ring out a system for you, LOW cost HIGH quality.. LOL I love when he chimes in... He was an avid HP guy, too.. Likes his SQ.. no doubt..

Regards
Get a DEQX premate or an Anthem STR. They will show you what the problem is and correct it. The speakers won't have quite the detail of headphones but the will sound a lot better. If you want the detail of Headphones in speakers you have to get ESLs.
try try listening to the speakers in a small, say 3’x3’x3’ triangle with speakers center of room pointed directly at your head. Thats as close as you can practically get to replicating cans on and the direct sound should let you listen to tweeters also download a free db meter and run a 20 to 20k Signal from tidal.
Another possibility is bad ferrofluid fluid in the tweeters. I had that problem with my B&W P5 set after about 10 years. The condition you described is very similar to my experience. I had output, but it was extremely limited causing the speakers to sound lifeless. 
I removed my tweeters from the cabinet, then lifted the diaphragm gently off. I used some alcohol to clean out the old fluid that had hardened, then replaced some fresh fluid from Parts Express. That brought them back to life again. 
Good luck!
+1 nicemix

Only caveat is that it is my understanding that some tweeters are harder to pull the diaphragm than others.  If difficult, suggest you call Bill at Millersound.  
PM-1s are very low efficiency mini-monitors with only 84dB sensitivity.  The RA 1570 has 120 wpc...enough for a small room at medium volume with no clipping....but if you get carried away and overdrive tha amp you can damage the tweeter or crossover resistor.  I don't believe there are any fuses or protective circuits, and the network is said to be a simple LCR with top quality components.  If the level is way down I'd suspect that resistor.