Vandersteen Quatro CT

What do you experienced Vandy aficionados hear in the Quatro CT that is different than the Quatro Wood? Better imaging? Less grain?  What?

The differences?  Let me think for a second.

Ok, in a nut shell the CT is smoother, but still fully retains the Vandersteen's 'suddenness".  The staging and imaging are just a tad more accurate.  The changes are subtle.  I'd say a 10% gain, but when you have such a highly revealing systems, it's worth it to most people.  The gains are at the top end, but strengthen the coherence too based on my opinion.  Magic is the word I think of when listening to them set up correctly in a good room.  I've never heard them sound their best though as they keep getting better with better equipment.  That's what I love about Vandersteen's.  They give you what you pay for in the rest of your system.  His home made Carbon Fiber tweeters are just very special.  I have heard the new diamond and beryllium drivers from others and they just don't hold a candle to the carbon fiber drivers in my humble opinion. I know it's about implementation, but those B&W diamonds will spit on difficult passages and to me are fatiguing.  I'd rather speak with the salesperson after 3 minutes of listening and that's with their top rated gear on them.  Aways excuses from B&W fans against me, but even the sales person as the last store agreed with me and said he didn't like the new 803's either.  With the Ceramic tweeters that the wood and my Treo's have you get detail out the wazoo as well as a sweet enough high end, but I know what's out there is better and I want it.
That's why I'm selling my Treo's right now because to me the Quatro is the best value in the line as it's much closer to the 5 CT than it is the Treo CT or regular Treo.  

I carried both Thiel and Vandersteen when Thiel was still Thiel.  I was a dealer, sort of retired now but going to do some low key stuff with existing customers.  I love the new Vandy stuff.  Does everything I love about my 5A's but there's an immediacy, albeit subtle, that is addictive.  For the person who asked why Jim Thiel didn't train someone, you would have had to have known Jim.  He even programmed the CNC routers in production.  He was a friend and I've spent many hours with him watching him design and develop and realizing I will always be a speaker designer wannabe.  Same with Richard Vandersteen.  All speakers are compromises of sorts but Jim's latest design before he passed and Richard's current stuff does the coherent phase stuff beautifully but addresses some of the compromises very well.  Best to all.

Thanks for the post. Are you of the Atlanta variety?  I agree with you about Richard. I only met Jim Thiel a couple of times, but he was a special cat that's for sure.  You nailed the Vandy's to a tee.  Some on the boards are tied into their speakers and won't give a serious listen to others and that's cool.  I still audition every speaker I have a chance to and that includes those I don't usually like.  I wasn't a Vandersteen fan until Rutan forced me to give them a listen. I went to his shop all the way from CT to buy new Proacs as Richard from Proac told me to go there. once there I was captivated that Vandersteen's could sound so awesome.  Blown away for sure.  Thanks.

Jim Thiel was the best.  I met him once and knew he was a perfectionist.  I do wish he would have passed on his knowledge to someone who could have carried on his legacy.  However, as hifiguys stated, that wasn't Jim.  Vandersteen is excellent as is ProAc, as are my Tannoys.  Yes, Senor Rutan is one of the best as well.  When/if I can afford a second system, it will consist of Vandies.  I really want the Vandy 1ci with a tube integrated, i.e. Line Magnetic.  Regards........

The more I read this thread, the more motivated I am in selling my Treo's.  First decent offer that comes, the Treo's will go to a good home and the Quatro's are on order! lol.  Glad Richard is getting the second generation ready to take over the business.  He's already branched out into amps a bit and let's see where that takes him.  I don't feel he will ever try and compete with the electronic companies, but he does have his vision of powered speakers being the best as you pair them with the speakers so you take out the variables.  the problem with American's is that for some reason we don't like powered speakers.  Too many want to play, trade and upgrade.  Personally, if Richard were to make a powered Quatro, I'd get that and sell off my Ayre AX-5/Twenty, lol.  In a NY minute I'd do that as the amp would be the perfect match for the speaker.  To me that makes sense, to the market, not so much I guess.  

Karl, I've got the ceramic Quatro Woods in black, also.  They sound magical to me.  I had a pair of the original Quatro cloth speakers, and found the Woods to be much more articulate, but still retaining the Vandersteen phase coherence and midrange sweetness.  I haven't heard the Quatro CT's but I would guess they are better for some listeners. (I have heard the 7's in Santa Monica - best speakers I've ever heard...) The ugly truth, however, is that I'm 61 and the ceramic tweeters may be a better match for my gradual hearing roll-off above 6K Hz.  (Sad but inevitable issue for all us baby-boomer audiophiles).

I have found a way to get better bass than even the larger Vandersteen speakers (5CT and 7) can manage, with a just pair of Quatros.  Get the Audiokinesis SWARM distributed subwoofer system ($2800.00) and you can leave the Quatro EQ system flat OR drop the response at 80 Hz down by 3dB per octave.  You'll need to drive the SWARM 950W amp separately with your preamp (use a splitter) and adjust the subwoofer levels and HF roll-off at 50-80 Hz with the SWARM amp.  Flat, non-resonant bass in any room down to below 20 Hz.  In addition, as you point out, speakers bigger than the Quatros are visually intrusive, even in a fairly large room.  The SWARM subwoofers are comparatively small - just one foot square by two feet tall.  

You can't get truly flat bass in any typical listening room with just two woofer locations - even with great, equalized woofers and a lot of room treatment.  The SWARM / Quatro combination gives you six locations which can be arranged to eliminate all the nodes and anti-nodes formed by standing waves in your room.  Simply the most realistic bass reproduction I've ever heard.

The one thing I can say with confidence...I have NEVER heard a properly set up pair of Vandersteens sound anything other than musical.  If you are into this endeavor for the music, pick the Vandys you can afford, set them up with care and enjoy the music.

Hifiman, I completely agree.  I've heard most of the top speakers out there under 100k and I've heard a ton of the esoteric's too and yes the 7 mk 2 are still my favorites and it's not close.  I'm still trying to sell my original Treo's to upgrade to the Quatro.  I've heard Vandy's with subs on them and my favorite by far are still using Vandersteen subs. They have been specifically made to mate with his speakers and the way his amps mate with your own amplifier to not change the sound characteristic seems to be the key.  Not putting down other subs at all as they can sound excellent, just saying that if you are spending the money on a Treo or higher, you really need to go hear the Vandersteen subs before making a decision.  He really does know what he's doing, lol.  Glad that he's got a transition plan in place for when he retires, if he ever does. He's still young and LOVES this business and music.  It's cool that his kids are so involved and loving it too.  He still will answer the phone when folks call in with good questions on his gear.  That's so rare for the size company he has.  

I just heard this speaker for the first time and thought it was very nice.  It's definitely a step up from the Treos.

Lim, are you talking about the Quatro's being a step up from the Treo's or the 3a's?

The non-CT Treo.  I heard the Treo immediately before at my brother's house.

I owned Thiel 2.3s for a no. of years and have heard the higher-end Vandersteen models on a no. of occasions (sometime after purchase of my Thiels). My next speakers will be Vandersteen Quatro CT or Treo CT  (although I wish to check out the Golden Ear Triton models for a possible- and substantially more affordable- alternative, and see if they live up to their press). 
Re. Thiels, my model had some problems with edgy high-end (primarily with digital rather than analogue presentation (on my Rega planar 3 and then an older Linn LP12 with benz micro cart), but had all of the positive attributes of the Thiels as well, and were eventually tamed by component isolation, judicious cable selection, and dampening an overly-bright listening room that I had. I used them with an Ayre cd player and Ayre electronics, excellent their own right, but not the absolutely best match for the 2.3s. 
FWIW, I also heard the Thiel 2.4s sometime after I'd bought the 2.3's in a setup nearly identical to mine, and were definitely superior overall and without the edginess. Also, the folks with the (now-defunct) Audio Perfectionist journal, who had impeccable taste in gear and setup, were big fans of the Thiel line (though bigger fans of Vandersteen).
The Thiel are fabulous speakers, but a bit more system-sensitive than the Vandersteens, I'd say. While I've come to prefer the Vandersteen sound, it's easy to understand how many people would love their Thiels.

@aubullience thanks much for sharing your experience.  I concur, my next speakers will be Vandersteen as well.  I've never heard such an open sound that sounds so real and emotionally engaging.  I messed up by selling my Vandersteen 2ce Sig II.  I plan on getting them again or the Treos.  By the way I used to have Thiel CS 2 2.  It must be the first order and time aligned design!?  

As as a real good guy on this site has said, "you're chasing your tail".  I intend on listening to him once and for all!  Best.....

I agree on chasing our tails.  I did that for years and years as I learned.  The more I learned, the less I chased. When I decided to change my system a few years ago, after keeping it in tact for well over 18 years, I knew I wanted to buy a system that worked best together.  I learned that not all outstanding components work good together.  

I decided to find a dealer I trusted as they know what products go best together.  That's when I met johnny Rutan at Audio Connection.  He too said to not chase my tail in my quest to upgrade.  I knew that I was limited on budget to what I was selling off (I had a lot of old systems that I have moved. I only have a few pieces left, lol).  I didn't want to listen to the Vandersteen's. I had a couple of listening sessions with them in the 90's at two dealers who didn't have them set up properly at all and weren't interested in moving them.

He just requested that I sit with my late father and brother (we were in NJ for a family wedding) and just listen to the Treo's.  I was hooked within minutes.  I was in shock at how great they sounded in his open front room.  I could only imagine how good they'd sound at home.  He ran Ayre amps and source.  No special power cords or anything else.  Then I auditioned the Quatro and after that I went down to his store again (nearly 3 hour drive) and auditioned the 5CT and 7's. Wow, was I hooked on the Vandersteen sound. Mind you, at this point I was out listening to Wilsons, Magicos, Maggies, ML, Salks, AudioZen, Focal....you get it. I was out trying to figure out WHAT price point would give me the best bang for the buck.  I didn't like much of what I was hearing.  There were a couple of speaker lines that I really liked a lot and Ayre gear was prevalent at so many shops or friends homes.  I noticed that the Vandersteen Treo and Quatro's sounded best for me.  I knew I eventually wanted a pair of Quatro's, but I didn't want to wait to get them, so I sold off some gear and bought the Treo's.  I ended up with the Ayre AX-5/Twenty as well as the Ayre QX-5/Twenty and a rebuilt Mac Mini server with Paul Hynes power supply that I'm selling as I want the top of the line Melco.  

As I have stated, I'm selling my cherry Treo's and once sold, I'll bring in the Quatro's.  If they don't sell, I won't be upset as i love the sound of the Treo's.  

The reason for the long post is because I had the time, but the point is, it's best for many of us to set a price point and figure out where we want to be in a year or so.  Then we can take our time to get there.  I personally love working through a dealer I trust. I have a few whom I like, but I go to Johnny over local dealers because he understands my needs and he won't let me go over budget. 

I had a pair of Vandersteen 2ci's as my first pair of "hifi" speakers. Then went to some more accurate sounding kit speakers (North Creek) then some used Vandy 5's and then Legacy Focus SE.  I returned to Vandersteen Quatro woods when I had the opportunity and I'm glad I did.  The other speakers had their strengths (the North Creeks were magical driven by a BAT VK-75SE) but I just couldn't get them synchronized with my room (even the Vandy 5's).  You would think that the larger and more efficient Legacy's would be able to do a better job on the low end but there is no doubt that the Quatro's give me better (deeper, more controlled, higher impact) bass in my room with my electronics.

Still need to go out and listen to the Quatro Wood CT. I would love to liquify things a bit more on the top. 

I wonder how many current Vandersteen owners have come back after trying other speakers only to realize that they were "chasing their tails."

-Karl

Karl and CT thanks for contributing.  Currently I'm taking care of my mom who has stage IV colon cancer.  Certainly too busy now, and with uncertain funds, so my quest will have to wait.  I do know that when I'm able, Vandersteen will be my choice.  Yes, tired of tail chasing and the proverbial merry-go-round.  Just want to settle into some great speakers and listen to my favorite music and yet to be discovered music.

Yes, John is a great guy with down to earth advice.  My goal based on his input; Belles Aria integrated amp with the Treos.  If funds are tight, I'll look to some 2Ce.  Oh, any either of the two are going in the damn living room. Lol.  Tired of the old WAF!  You two enjoy your Sunday!  Best.....

I'm really glad you got to meet Johnny.  Praying for you mom as you know.  It really sucks and audio needs to take a back shelf, but I do hope you listen to your music as much as you can so you can keep your own sanity.  You are dealing with enough personally (you know what I"m talking about) and keeping your own health and sanity is the only way you will be able to deal with those around you ;).  Call or text if you want or need to in order to take your mind off of all of this.  Hang in there! Pete

@ctsooner ....
thanks, really appreciate your thoughts and prayers.  True friends mean a whole lot more during these times than any speakers, components, etc.. The music is what lasts and consoles regardless of the medium.

Take care from an eventual member of the Vandy family.

Well the Treos are in a great new home and the Quatros are being built. I had them paint them Audi Havana Black. Very dark brown metallic. Just sound outnits the same color as Bill Lowes 7's lol. Can't wait to see them. Ayre is installing the crossover directly in my AX5/twenty. I heard the Paradgim 9h and Focal Sopra 2 yesterday and neither was even close to what I hear with the Quatros. 

Congrats. on finally scoring the Quatros!  That dark brown metallic finish sounds real rich.  Can't wait to hear your reaction to them once broken in and ready to ride.

Yes the color is very rich.  Bill's are on the net if you google his system.  Just can't wait.

Good news CT.  Listened for a couple hours this morning.  Some 60's Miles and the new Dirty Projectors vinyl.  Even the non Carbon version sounds great!

CT, you must be going crazy waiting for your Quatro CT to arrive. My Treo CT / Ayre AX-5/20 are still on their course to breaking in nicely. I really do love how fast these speakers perform. Just finish listening to Mediterranean Sundance / Rio Ancho (live) by Al Dimelo...amazing.

@nycjlee   I got my Treo CT on June 30.  They take quite a while to break-in, especially the carbon tweeter.  I used well recorded jazz cymbals to assess the tweeter break-in. Once they are ready to go, you can just sit back and enjoy!  Just finished listening to the SACD of Ray Brown's Soular Energy remastered by Analogue Productions. Those high piano notes played with vigor by Gene Harris have a bell like clarity...just gorgeous to listen to.

Congratulations on your Treo CTs!  Lots of smiles to come.

Thanks. I’m really looking forward to the carbon tweeters to break In. Any good suggestions on these well recorded jazz cymbals?

It's all good as I wait.  Makes me appreciate them more and it's been a good time for me traveling. I have been able to audition a ton of gear as I go and all it does is remind me that for this price range the Vandersteen's are giving me the best value and sound.  I go in realizing that there are other great speakers out there, but I've been really disappointed in most brands for various reasons.  

I like the direction Wilson is going with son in charge, but even with that silk tweeter, their drivers just don't get the job done for me.  You can hear the break up in the bass.  The sound to me is distorted, but the dealers are all trained the same way by pointing out how open and dynamic they are.  I've purchased systems from a few of these Wilson dealers over the years and know and like them.  I think they are still using paper cones for the bass and if so, you can't just dip them in goo and say they won't break up, plus that adds weight that throws them off. The other thing about paper cones is that they absorb water and sound different ever day.  Folks don't believe me, but it's true.  If you listen closely and have the right system, you can hear a small difference in sound daily as they will dry out or absorb water from the air constantly.  That's just fact and can't be avoided.  

Again, not a knock, just an observation. 

All is good and they will get here when they get here, lol.  :)

@nycjlee   Rather than listing numerous discs, the one that will get the job done in every way of appreciating break-in and is just great, fun jazz is Clark Terry's "Portraits" on Chesky.  It may be the best overall recording I own as the music is revelatory and the recording flawless.  Images occupy a huge soundstage.  Clark's trumpet images to the right of the right speaker on some cuts.  He engages in fun scatting on some songs.  The cymbals....you can hear Lewis Nash work his way around the kit and detect the different diameters of the various cymbals.  The smaller the cymbal the more numerous are the higher frequency overtones and vice versa. The big deal is the "brassiness" of the cymbals.  It sounds as close to hearing live as I've experienced in a  recording. The dynamic swell of the music breathes life into it.  You will not lose on this disc.  I will promise that.  You will notice that it's almost impossible not to react physically to the sway of the music as it grows from cut to cut.

Warning - A couple of times Terry taps the mike and you'll hear(feel) a thump.  Your system is fine you are just hearing what's on the disc. Leaving artifacts like that in the final production enhances the sense of being in the room live with the performers.

I have had the CD for some time and it is great.  If you want all this extraordinary recording can offer, get the SACD.  It Will be your demo. disc as well as something you pop in the player when you don't know what you want to listen to ... a true treasure!

Uh oh!  Forget buying the SACD from Chesky or Amazon.  Import CDs has it on eBay for $17.59 shipping included.

can you get the download in high rez anywhere?

Thanks for the suggestion! 

@ctsooner  Don't know about the high rez.  I am a silver disc and licorice pizza user.

I use all now.  I purchased an incredible server from Steve Nugent and it has a LOT of well recorded mostly high res music in all genre's.  I figure that if I purchase anymore, I'll get high res if possible.  I'll search and see.  :)

got the call last night that my Quatro's are being dialed in and should ship any day now.

oh the humanity!  oh the anticipation!

LOL...spoke with Johnny at Audio Connections. We are setting up the install time.  Ayre shipped my AX5 back after installing the cross over so I'll have that here sometime early next weeks.  

Congratulations CT, so happy for you. Can't wait for your thoughts.

CT, btw you can get the Clark Terry "Portraits" album in 96/24 high rez at hdtracks. You can also stream it through Tidal.  

well I will have to fire up the big system and stream some Tidal this eve...
i am sure it will be shocking...
i have been going down a real analog bunny trail with my vintage system with Apogee stages..the ribbon mid / tweeter is good for sure but not match for the Vandersteen CT IMO...
Pete - so glad to hear your new stuff coming together !!!!!! you will be enthralled with PURITY and a clear water like clarity...layers of grunge removed....
..and yes Quatro CT will replace the Apogee eventually in my smaller room....

First off Jay, thanks for the album tip.  Streaming it on Tidal now.  Sounds great.  I do like Clark Terry.

Before I get to Tom, I am PUMPED beyond all belief.  They should be done by the end of the week and I bet it will only take about a week to get to Johnny's and then installed.  Everytime I hear them tell me about cutting and polishing the Audi Havana Black finish I get very excited to see these things.  It's going to be WELL WORTH it for doing this major upgrade.  No one does finishing better than Vandersteen. Some do just as good as they take the time and effort to properly cut and polish the finish, but it's all in who's painting (just like a car repair) and Richard has a GREAT painter.  Those of you with painted finishes by them know this already.  I will then apply three coats of a ceramic nano coating to give it that always WET look and the depth of the clear coat will come out.  This is what manufacturers are now using for their show cars ;). It also takes the pencil hardness from a 3H to a 9H.  More resistant to scratches etc...  I"m going to pay a guy who does my cars to come do this as it's worth it to have a professional who's used to applying it do it for the BEST shine.  I may even do 4 coats if it makes a difference, lol.

I know Richard constantly makes tweeks to his speakers to make them sound even better and better, so I bet these will be even better than the Quatro's that I have heard so many times in various show rooms.  The last pair I heard was just so warm and inviting that I was in shock at what I was hearing in the 15k range.  Just stunned at the detail etc... 

Tom, I used to listen to those Apogee's with the sub/stands and liked them a lot.  I"m going from the Treo with regular tweeters to the Quatro CT's. That's a HUGE change.  I'lll also be working with Johnny to tune the room a bit.  

Does this sound reasonable to you guys?  My Ayre AX-5 Twenty (upgraded) is breaking in at the same time as my Treo CT. Like a tube amp, I'm convince the Ayre sounds better after it plays for 30 mins.  Is this maybe a part of the break in process for my amp or am I just going nuts? 

Most solid state amps sound better when they have been on for a while, vs. cold.  There are some in this community who leave their amps on all the time for that reason.  You're not imagining things, but it's not really attributable to break-in. 

Thx. Didn't notice before and unlike other SS amps Ayre puts the ax5 to standby mode so it's never really cold. 

+1 rcprince    The only time I turn off my SS amps is when I'm changing gear in the system or doing semi-annual connector cleaning.  Some may argue that SS amps should be left on all the time to promote thermal stability.  The side benefit is that the sound is always first rate.

NYC
i have the VX-R Twenty and leave it on most of the time ( vs standby ) Thrre is a difference in SQ even tho it is smaller than the pre twenty change in SQ from standby to fully warmed up. I attribute this to the old topology and thermal trac devices. The double diamond changes seem to also benefit in SQ changes from standby - even so while the twenty sounds excellent about 20 minutes in I leave it on most all the time.
cant comment to much about Twenty break in time and changes as I got my 7 at about same time.
have fun !!
that is what this is all about !!!
joy

I have a Pass XA-30.5.  No way I'm leaving that beast on all the time!  But it warms up pretty fast.

giving the Clark Terry a listen - yes a very fine recording on many levels :-) 

Karl you would be using 200 W
not sure what the vxr is drawing when on at idle but it is 45 W in standby.

and BTW that Pass is a sweetheart of an amp !!!!