Vandersteen Quatro CT

They don't need a review when you hear them.
They are much better than Model 5A except in the deep bass.

Above is my opinion. Below I go into detail if you care to read:

Guys, take it for what it is, but I have recently redone my whole system. I have heard nearly everything from 100k down that you can find in stores, plus I've also heard a TON of the boutique home made speakers and even some of the mail order ones.

I was NOT leaning towards Vandys as I purchased Proacs over them over 25 years ago. My quest for speakers ended up at Audio Connection in Verona, NJ. They were the closest Proac dealer and Richard, the US distributor sent me there to get newer Proacs. I heard heard the Proacs D's and then Jonny, the owner put on the Vandy Treo's....I was in SHOCK as to how good they were. They did it all, but were more natural than the Proacs (which are very very good). I ended up getting the Vandy Treo's the same week the CT versions came out. I kind of wish I got the CT's after hearing them recently, but I LOVE mine.

I have been to the store many times over the last year and a half now (3 hr drive) and built a full system. I've been able to listen to the Quatro's (all versions, 5A's, 5 CT and the 7's. I've heard them all with Ayre, Quicksilver, Rogue, Audio Research, Vandy's own amp and Aesthetix gear. 50/50 vinyl and digital (redbook mostly).

I've never heard the Vandy's sound badly. The line gets better as you go up in price, but the Treo's still blow me away daily at home with awesome Ayre gear using Vinyl as well as digital. I'm still up grading and I hear everything that is changed in the system.

The difference between the carbon fiber drivers and the older ones (ceramic coated tweeters) is bigger than I thought it was going to be. I noticed that big time on the Treo's. I do regret not getting them as they are so refined. It's more relaxed (like the differences between vinyl and digital), but had much more detail. You don't even notice it until you spend time with it. The detail is startling. The Quatro's don't have the bass of the 5A's, however it sounds better (not the 5CT's)....Yes, I'll be looking at Quatro CT's over the 5A's if they ever come on the market used. I know that I can get back nearly what I spent on my Treo's and none of use get rid of these speakers unless we are getting the newer versions as they are so good. Even dealers I know well who don't sell Vandy's love them and respect them.

The bass on the Quatro's will be a deep as most people will want or can handle in their room, especially for the cost. To me they are a best buy.

Where do you live? Is there a Vandy dealer near you?

Where do you live? I personally listened to the Focus speakers before getting the Vandy's....I like the newest model that goes for 18K or so, but they are huge. I still would take the Quatro's over them. It wasn't even close. The Vandy's give you everything, but it's so fast you don't even notice it. Their carbon fiber midrange units he hand builds are amazingly fast. Their sound is just so fast, but it's coherent. Very natural and the base is adjustable so you can put them up against the wall if needed. Personally, I liked them out a bit like any other dynamic speaker. The bass is used to adjust it to the room. I've heard the Quatro's set up in many different rooms now and they always sound the same. Have heard them with over 100k worth of electronics and they just kept getting better and better. My Treo's are the same way.

Sounds great let us know

My wife is from WI and loves the Pack.....Fun place to go watch a game.

I don't know the Vandy dealer near you. Give Jonny Rutan a call at Audio Connection in Verona NJ....he can help you out and let you know the closest dealer if there is one. He often is on this site too. Great guy. I bought my Treo's from him. He often helps posters over here set their systems up properly. The quatros are pretty easy to set up and dial in. I watched Jonny and his partner set mine up with a laser and ruler. Seemed pretty easy to me. Those Quatro CT's are really really special.

I auditioned the Thiel 3.7's vs the Treo's and as always the Thiels literally hurt my ears. I had to walk away. I have spoken to a few others who have done the same and no matter where we've auditioned or with what. Again, that's why they make so many different types of speakers as we all like different things.

Those of us who like the new Vandy's like a presentation that you may get when you go listen live. It's highly detailed and will give you everything it's being fed, but it's musical. The mid bass through meds are FAST...Panel like fast. Richard is heavily into live performance and goes often. He makes speakers that sound like live music and it doesn't appeal to some audiophiles.

Ruf, I got the ceramic version as the CT's were JUST announced when I got mine. I love them and have been working on other parts of my system. Eventually I may or may not upgrade the speakers, but I don't miss that much. The CT's are more detailed, smoother, just all around better from what seems like the mid bass up. It's got a bit sweeter top end for sure. If you can swing the extra 1500 for the upgrade (I think that's what it is), it's well worth it. Deep down I wish I had made that choice. If I could do it over, I'd go that route right now! I've heard a few speaker brands recently that I like a ton that I never used to like. I just think that better technology equals better sound, but to me Thiel speakers still hurt my ears and I can't listen more than a few minutes. I have a lot of friends who say the same thing. I brought a friend who isn't an audiophile to listen to the 3's (the most current model) and he was ready to leave after two songs. HE heard just what I heard. We then went to my house and listened and he said that my speakers blew the Thiel's out of the water. Granted I was using Ayre electronics, but it was through a Music Hall DAC and the Thiels were using top of the line Krell stuff. I'd love to hear them all side by side.

I too have heard them all at Johnnys....Tonyjack is dead on! I've been to 5 other Vandy dealers and they were all good, but not great. I drove 3 hours to get to Johnny's. I do wish he was closer as it's tough for me to get down there, but they are awesome. Heck, I've already sent my cousin there to get a nice Rotel integrated, lol. They just get it! Plus he's always on the boards helping anyone for free. That's hard to find in any industry now days.

I personally have never liked the Thiel speakers and yes every time I've heard them they hurt my ears. Sorry to disappoint you. I've heard them many times over the years in various stores. They've been played with Krell, Peachtree, Classe, NAD Masters along with many others. I know that one of the stores I've heard them in, loves them. The owner has used them in his personal systems for years now. I'm assuming that the dealers have them set up properly or they wouldn't sell them.

What part can't you understand? The fact that I don't like them and you do? If you said you hate the Vandy line of speakers or Proacs or some others I've had over the years (yes theProacs were also too hot for me and that's why I finally changed lines) it wouldn't bother me at all. We all hear different things. I have hated Wilsons for the same reason I didn't like the Thiels, however recently I've heard them with top of the line Ayre gear and they sounded great. Not sure they are my cup of tea, but I liked them. I didn't like the older Vandy's, but I love the new ones. I keep an open mind when listening and have often changed my mind to the tune of putting my money where my mouth is. I gave the Thiels a shot when I recently changed speakers and I wanted to like them. The dealer who has them is a couple of miles up the street from me and I love giving him business when I can, but I just didn't like the Thiels nor did I like the Focals. I couldn't go with Utopias, but I didn't like what he was showing. I owned and loved Focals before they were known by that name. I would have loved to purchase a pair of them, but the Vandy's blew me away with the Ayre gear.
Congrats on loving your system. I'm happy for you, but how can anyone tell someone what they hear? I'm not talking about playing speakers at ear shattering levels either, I'm talking about high freq distortion that some say is 'extended'. I'm very sensitive to this and find many speakers fatiguing.
So before you put me down, please remember that we all hear things differently. Thanks.

They may, but if I doubt it as it would be very expensive as even the xover is different between the two. I just got the new Ayre AX5/20 and it took the Treo ceramic to a new level. It's not even broken in and it's just SICK. To me that's teh sign of a great speaker. If you can hear such a huge upgrade in all your components it makes it fun to upgrade.

I got a chance to listen to the large Theils. I assume they are still selling them as he had them in the showroom. I didn't listen to their new stuff as I wanted to give them a fair shake. The owner set them up wth top of the line Krell. I honestly tried to hear what Michael and many others swear by, however I could not. Maybe Krell is a bad match also, but I asked said dealer to set them up so they sound their best and he said he did. The room is actually a bit dead and he has that 60 hz wall vibrating node that you often hear in stores. That wouldn't make a speaker sound hot. I then asked a few folks I know in the industry and was told that they boost the treble 1-2 DB,s so that they stand out in showrooms. Many folks like that sound and feel it makes their speakers sound alive and clean. B&W does that also. I just am very sensitive to that. It's my weakness I guess.

I tried as I learn a lot from this forum, both good and bad.

I also fee it depends on what else you are running. The thing is that like with many things you don't miss it until it's gone. I heard the treo CT at audio Connection and they blew me away with larger stage and much better imaging. I heard it with Ayre AX 5 and Ayre digital. I love my regular Treos but I clearly heard the smoothness without losing detail. Actually there seemed to be a bit more air as well as detail.
Not everyone will even realize what they are hearing but it's there. Personally I like that they aren't hyping it too much. Just letting folks enjoy the music and pointing out why they are a bit different than others. JMHO

Well I'm putting the Treo's on the market as I want the Quatro's. I can't wait to get them in zebra wood. Heard the Theils again and they sounded better with Boulder gear. Not my cup of tea but they were better than what I heard in the past. It was a 3.7

WAs out last week and heard some Wilson speakers again and I just can't get into them. I heard them with AR ref, Mac and Ayre Ref/20 stack. Aurender and Esoteric provided the Ayre gear. Mac CD provided that source and the NAD Masters CD player/DAC provided for the AR gear.

I thought my Treo's sounded better overall and were more engaging than any of the Wilson's. That just me not getting emotionally connected to the Wilson sound. For those who want that sound, I felt you couldn't beat the Aurender feeding the Ayre through the Alexis I think they call them (about 55k).

It just cemented me on the Quatro's to be honest. I have heard so many of the 30k and under speakers and most don't do it for me . Lot's of great sound and I see why you guys like many of the brands out there, but even within brands (Dynaudio) I like some, but not all. I rarely like the large top of the line 100k plus speakers from companies. When you speak with designers they will tell you that they make these behemouths because folks want large speakers for the price they are paying. They want the big sound even if that sound isn't as real or engaging as some of their other offerings. I find this to be very true based on many of the speakers I've heard. Again, that's just me. I will be interested in hearing the B&W D3 speakers. In the past I haven't loved their sound either, but the last diamond coated tweeters they used were their best offering so far (for me).

I really liked what I heard with the Aurender. I liked it a lot!. The interface as well as the sound and the look. I have liked in in every system I've listened to. I've heard the Ayre and Wilson's enough to know their sound, so I think I have an idea of what they were fed. I will be selling my rebuilt Mac Mini with Haynes linear power supply (including Amara, a professional ripping program and all the high rez songs to get one I think. I do believe it's that's good. Another friend of mine, who's a well respected poster on Audiogon has the exact opinion as I do too. He also is using a heavily modded Mac Mini. the is the first server I've heard that I like better.

So unless I can find another speaker under 15k that will beat the Vandersteen Quatro's, I'll be getting them. Still will need to move the Treo's though to be able to pay for said speakers, lol.

First off why would I ever give the name of folks who share things in confidence ? It's been more than a few folks who have mentioned it. Others have spoken about liking the model below the top of the line in other threads.

Tom. I can't afford the 5CT lol. The quatros are the perfect size and price for me lol. Living the Treos even more since the upgrade to the Arye AX5 twenty. That's an amazing piece of gear.

Why would it be an error? Maybe that was sarcastic, but I don't think so. What designer/manufacturer would want their name attached to what I posted? I've heard it from more than one designer/owner. It's not that their largest speaker isn't worth it or isn't a great speaker. Personally I've heard some folks largest offering an not liked it, but I have liked their 60k or so offerings better. Very few people or dealers have a room that can even handles many of the larger speakers offered. I was with a dealer last week who spoke about the sore spots in his room and how much it would cost to rebuild it and that most of his customers don't even know it. Very few dealers I've been to around the country don't have a problem with that 50-60hz reverb. Most rooms also seem over damped or don't diffuse early wall reflections so you get a lot of ringing. Again, we all have different takes and maybe you have never heard these things.

Yes the Vandy's are dynamic as well as tuneful.  Not just thump as even some great speakers really are.  When you listen to true subterranean cuts, you realize what you have or what has been missing.  Heck, Richard stopped trying to get a model 9 to the market, because he couldn't get multiple bass drivers to sound as good as the 7's or better.  They were just bigger.  Many companies have that problem and when you hear bass done correctly, you realize it.  Richard isn't the only one who gets great bass out of a speaker.  There are some, but not as many as some think. It's the most expensive part of the spectrum to replicate.

As for the treble, yes I think that CT tweeter would change things greatly.  I've heard the Focus tweeter.  The newest one I like, the last version did't do it for me in any of their speakers. I heard them locally as a dealer before I got Vandy's.  

Tom, update, I have my Treo's posted on one website, but I turned down a low ball offer.  Still selling them, lol.

DARN you!!!  Reel to Reel?  Really?  Thanks a lot, lol.  Yes the Quatro's are what I want.  Like you I've heard them at a few places and they never ever disappoint.  No matter the room or the gear, they just do what they do and that's revealing music and bringing you in emotionally.  That's what all that detail will get you...emotionally attached. I have a thread going on VAndy 7's on Audio Asylum. I invite you guys to join in.  I have some guy trying to discredit my feelings on Vandy's by tell me that B&W C series speaker is better than the Treo and that he uses a Marantz integrated and it's better than my Ayre AX5 Twenty.  

I understand speakers will polarize.  That's the reality when we all hear so differently. Either he's trolling or he's serious and if so, he needs a trip to the audiologist, lol.  Hope to see some of you over there and feel free to share opposing views etc....Love the discussion.  No speaker does everything right regardless of cost.  You just can't or you'd have LIVE performances in your room daily.

The differences?  Let me think for a second.

Ok, in a nut shell the CT is smoother, but still fully retains the Vandersteen's 'suddenness".  The staging and imaging are just a tad more accurate.  The changes are subtle.  I'd say a 10% gain, but when you have such a highly revealing systems, it's worth it to most people.  The gains are at the top end, but strengthen the coherence too based on my opinion.  Magic is the word I think of when listening to them set up correctly in a good room.  I've never heard them sound their best though as they keep getting better with better equipment.  That's what I love about Vandersteen's.  They give you what you pay for in the rest of your system.  His home made Carbon Fiber tweeters are just very special.  I have heard the new diamond and beryllium drivers from others and they just don't hold a candle to the carbon fiber drivers in my humble opinion. I know it's about implementation, but those B&W diamonds will spit on difficult passages and to me are fatiguing.  I'd rather speak with the salesperson after 3 minutes of listening and that's with their top rated gear on them.  Aways excuses from B&W fans against me, but even the sales person as the last store agreed with me and said he didn't like the new 803's either.  With the Ceramic tweeters that the wood and my Treo's have you get detail out the wazoo as well as a sweet enough high end, but I know what's out there is better and I want it.
That's why I'm selling my Treo's right now because to me the Quatro is the best value in the line as it's much closer to the 5 CT than it is the Treo CT or regular Treo.  

Thanks for the post. Are you of the Atlanta variety?  I agree with you about Richard. I only met Jim Thiel a couple of times, but he was a special cat that's for sure.  You nailed the Vandy's to a tee.  Some on the boards are tied into their speakers and won't give a serious listen to others and that's cool.  I still audition every speaker I have a chance to and that includes those I don't usually like.  I wasn't a Vandersteen fan until Rutan forced me to give them a listen. I went to his shop all the way from CT to buy new Proacs as Richard from Proac told me to go there. once there I was captivated that Vandersteen's could sound so awesome.  Blown away for sure.  Thanks.

The more I read this thread, the more motivated I am in selling my Treo's.  First decent offer that comes, the Treo's will go to a good home and the Quatro's are on order! lol.  Glad Richard is getting the second generation ready to take over the business.  He's already branched out into amps a bit and let's see where that takes him.  I don't feel he will ever try and compete with the electronic companies, but he does have his vision of powered speakers being the best as you pair them with the speakers so you take out the variables.  the problem with American's is that for some reason we don't like powered speakers.  Too many want to play, trade and upgrade.  Personally, if Richard were to make a powered Quatro, I'd get that and sell off my Ayre AX-5/Twenty, lol.  In a NY minute I'd do that as the amp would be the perfect match for the speaker.  To me that makes sense, to the market, not so much I guess.  

Hifiman, I completely agree.  I've heard most of the top speakers out there under 100k and I've heard a ton of the esoteric's too and yes the 7 mk 2 are still my favorites and it's not close.  I'm still trying to sell my original Treo's to upgrade to the Quatro.  I've heard Vandy's with subs on them and my favorite by far are still using Vandersteen subs. They have been specifically made to mate with his speakers and the way his amps mate with your own amplifier to not change the sound characteristic seems to be the key.  Not putting down other subs at all as they can sound excellent, just saying that if you are spending the money on a Treo or higher, you really need to go hear the Vandersteen subs before making a decision.  He really does know what he's doing, lol.  Glad that he's got a transition plan in place for when he retires, if he ever does. He's still young and LOVES this business and music.  It's cool that his kids are so involved and loving it too.  He still will answer the phone when folks call in with good questions on his gear.  That's so rare for the size company he has.  

Lim, are you talking about the Quatro's being a step up from the Treo's or the 3a's?

I agree on chasing our tails.  I did that for years and years as I learned.  The more I learned, the less I chased. When I decided to change my system a few years ago, after keeping it in tact for well over 18 years, I knew I wanted to buy a system that worked best together.  I learned that not all outstanding components work good together.  

I decided to find a dealer I trusted as they know what products go best together.  That's when I met johnny Rutan at Audio Connection.  He too said to not chase my tail in my quest to upgrade.  I knew that I was limited on budget to what I was selling off (I had a lot of old systems that I have moved. I only have a few pieces left, lol).  I didn't want to listen to the Vandersteen's. I had a couple of listening sessions with them in the 90's at two dealers who didn't have them set up properly at all and weren't interested in moving them.

He just requested that I sit with my late father and brother (we were in NJ for a family wedding) and just listen to the Treo's.  I was hooked within minutes.  I was in shock at how great they sounded in his open front room.  I could only imagine how good they'd sound at home.  He ran Ayre amps and source.  No special power cords or anything else.  Then I auditioned the Quatro and after that I went down to his store again (nearly 3 hour drive) and auditioned the 5CT and 7's. Wow, was I hooked on the Vandersteen sound. Mind you, at this point I was out listening to Wilsons, Magicos, Maggies, ML, Salks, AudioZen, Focal....you get it. I was out trying to figure out WHAT price point would give me the best bang for the buck.  I didn't like much of what I was hearing.  There were a couple of speaker lines that I really liked a lot and Ayre gear was prevalent at so many shops or friends homes.  I noticed that the Vandersteen Treo and Quatro's sounded best for me.  I knew I eventually wanted a pair of Quatro's, but I didn't want to wait to get them, so I sold off some gear and bought the Treo's.  I ended up with the Ayre AX-5/Twenty as well as the Ayre QX-5/Twenty and a rebuilt Mac Mini server with Paul Hynes power supply that I'm selling as I want the top of the line Melco.  

As I have stated, I'm selling my cherry Treo's and once sold, I'll bring in the Quatro's.  If they don't sell, I won't be upset as i love the sound of the Treo's.  

The reason for the long post is because I had the time, but the point is, it's best for many of us to set a price point and figure out where we want to be in a year or so.  Then we can take our time to get there.  I personally love working through a dealer I trust. I have a few whom I like, but I go to Johnny over local dealers because he understands my needs and he won't let me go over budget. 

I'm really glad you got to meet Johnny.  Praying for you mom as you know.  It really sucks and audio needs to take a back shelf, but I do hope you listen to your music as much as you can so you can keep your own sanity.  You are dealing with enough personally (you know what I"m talking about) and keeping your own health and sanity is the only way you will be able to deal with those around you ;).  Call or text if you want or need to in order to take your mind off of all of this.  Hang in there! Pete

Well the Treos are in a great new home and the Quatros are being built. I had them paint them Audi Havana Black. Very dark brown metallic. Just sound outnits the same color as Bill Lowes 7's lol. Can't wait to see them. Ayre is installing the crossover directly in my AX5/twenty. I heard the Paradgim 9h and Focal Sopra 2 yesterday and neither was even close to what I hear with the Quatros. 

Yes the color is very rich.  Bill's are on the net if you google his system.  Just can't wait.

It's all good as I wait.  Makes me appreciate them more and it's been a good time for me traveling. I have been able to audition a ton of gear as I go and all it does is remind me that for this price range the Vandersteen's are giving me the best value and sound.  I go in realizing that there are other great speakers out there, but I've been really disappointed in most brands for various reasons.  

I like the direction Wilson is going with son in charge, but even with that silk tweeter, their drivers just don't get the job done for me.  You can hear the break up in the bass.  The sound to me is distorted, but the dealers are all trained the same way by pointing out how open and dynamic they are.  I've purchased systems from a few of these Wilson dealers over the years and know and like them.  I think they are still using paper cones for the bass and if so, you can't just dip them in goo and say they won't break up, plus that adds weight that throws them off. The other thing about paper cones is that they absorb water and sound different ever day.  Folks don't believe me, but it's true.  If you listen closely and have the right system, you can hear a small difference in sound daily as they will dry out or absorb water from the air constantly.  That's just fact and can't be avoided.  

Again, not a knock, just an observation. 

All is good and they will get here when they get here, lol.  :)

can you get the download in high rez anywhere?

I use all now.  I purchased an incredible server from Steve Nugent and it has a LOT of well recorded mostly high res music in all genre's.  I figure that if I purchase anymore, I'll get high res if possible.  I'll search and see.  :)

got the call last night that my Quatro's are being dialed in and should ship any day now.

LOL...spoke with Johnny at Audio Connections. We are setting up the install time.  Ayre shipped my AX5 back after installing the cross over so I'll have that here sometime early next weeks.  

First off Jay, thanks for the album tip.  Streaming it on Tidal now.  Sounds great.  I do like Clark Terry.

Before I get to Tom, I am PUMPED beyond all belief.  They should be done by the end of the week and I bet it will only take about a week to get to Johnny's and then installed.  Everytime I hear them tell me about cutting and polishing the Audi Havana Black finish I get very excited to see these things.  It's going to be WELL WORTH it for doing this major upgrade.  No one does finishing better than Vandersteen. Some do just as good as they take the time and effort to properly cut and polish the finish, but it's all in who's painting (just like a car repair) and Richard has a GREAT painter.  Those of you with painted finishes by them know this already.  I will then apply three coats of a ceramic nano coating to give it that always WET look and the depth of the clear coat will come out.  This is what manufacturers are now using for their show cars ;). It also takes the pencil hardness from a 3H to a 9H.  More resistant to scratches etc...  I"m going to pay a guy who does my cars to come do this as it's worth it to have a professional who's used to applying it do it for the BEST shine.  I may even do 4 coats if it makes a difference, lol.

I know Richard constantly makes tweeks to his speakers to make them sound even better and better, so I bet these will be even better than the Quatro's that I have heard so many times in various show rooms.  The last pair I heard was just so warm and inviting that I was in shock at what I was hearing in the 15k range.  Just stunned at the detail etc... 

Tom, I used to listen to those Apogee's with the sub/stands and liked them a lot.  I"m going from the Treo with regular tweeters to the Quatro CT's. That's a HUGE change.  I'lll also be working with Johnny to tune the room a bit.  

The Pass is a fine amp for the Quatro's. I personally like the Ayre Ref amp better as there is a ton of synergy, but that's me.  

I own the same integrated, AX5/TWenty, and it will sound a spec better after about 15 minutes or so, but I won't leave it on all the time.  If you don't have over 400 hours on that input (each input must be broken in separately and you want to really beak each input in using the listening volume level that you use normally), then it may also be part of breaking in.  I know that the time of sounding it's best shorted considerably once I was all broken in.  Once I get it back from Ayre with the Vandersteen cross over installed, I'm sure I'll need to run them for many hours to break them in too, but since I need to break in the new Quatro's, it's not a big deal, lol.  

I personally hate the break in time. I'd rather just do a plug and play from day one.  Guess we'd have to pay for the hours of break in at the factory. I know Vandersteen does a pretty good job of breaking in that midrange before assembly, but you still need to break in the rest of the speaker once you get it just like anything else.  With the newer and stiff components used and all the silver in the amps/electronics, it takes so much longer than it ever did.

LOL,  YES. I got the Audi Havana Black Quatro's (he said that for the upcharge to paint, he will do any color you want).  

The speakers are just beautiful to look at.  They are pretty in the wood veneers that they use, but painted make them look like they are 50k speakers.  Just a totally different look than the Treo's we had in here.  They were cherry and stunning, but these take it to levels beyond in my humble opinion.

So much metallic flake.  Sorry, but did I say how stunning they are? I'm actually going to have two drop lights installed above each of them just to show them off.

We actually installed them into the corners of the room.  The sound stage is wide and deep.  I thought this set up would have suck out in the middle, but it doesn't at all.  It's a great way to place them up against the walls.  The 11 band bass eq is amazing.  Just dial in the speakers where they sound best and then do the bass eq deal and you are done.  They look great tucked away and it frees up space in the room, making it look much nicer.

I don't even know where to begin on sound quality.  I've listened and truly auditioned so many of the speakers from 60k down. I couldn't afford anything above the Quatro price point, but I wanted to see what and how much I was going to lose.  The answer is nothing.  I like these much better for musicality, pace, timing and rhythm than the Magico 3 mk 2.  They are the most coherent speaker I've heard under 30k (the Vandersteen 5's are about the same in this regard).  They come off to me, in my room as a point source.  I'm not the only one who feels this way either.  The mids are just planer fast. I don't know how else to put it.  The fast mid affects EVERYTHING including bass.  Folks don't alway understand that.  Give me a speaker that has the best mids you can get and augment with a matching tweeter and woofer and I'll probably love the speaker.  It all starts with the mids and this midrange is outstanding, but also integrated properly.

It's a highly percussive speaker.  Dynamics aren't a strong suit as I think it's one of the rare speakers on the market that does everything really good.  The higher up in their range you go, you just get MORE of everything, but the compromises he makes at this price point are amazing in a good way.  I play them on Sunday mornings at a low level (when not using headphones) and they are clean and still dynamic.  The louder you play them, the more they open up and sound better.  Playing them at low levels is fine and they are not veiled etc... I THINK that's due to the design of phase and time alignment etc... You just don't get the smearing that I hear on so many of the more expensive speakers.  I'm just very sensitive to that.  

I use a server that was made by Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio.  It's as good as any server I've had in my system and I've had some top servers in here.  It's only got show recorded, high res and some 24/44 stuff.  Very good recordings of all genres.  I won't even bother with male, female voices....piano strikes, deep/wide/high stage....We all use the same adjectives in discussing products in audio.  Honestly, everyone asks how they sound now that they are broken in and I just say that I don't fully know (yes, I can sit and list stuff), because I just sit and listen for hours more a day than previously.  I loved my Treo's, but to have true bass in my room (I lose a lot of bass due to it being loft layout) means everything.  There is finally a foundation to everything.  I"m hearing sounds like Tympani's or stand up bass that I wasn't getting previously.  I realize how much small little sounds can make in a recording.  

To sum it up, I guess I'd have to say that I never thought I could get 50k sound on my budget.  I think what I appreciate about VAndersteens' in general is that they sound even better with better components.  Not just a little, but a lot.  I could easily run these with the top Ayre or D'agastino or Boulder electronics (or Jadis etc..) and it would be worth it.  I put an Audioquest Horizon, balanced interconnect (it's the same thing as their top WEL/solid silver) and it just warmed it up and gave me more of everything.  Crazy who an upgrade that was.  I've heard the Paradigm 9H which is an active sub also and I honestly wouldn't trade for it. Not even close.  There is a veiling that the Quatro doesn't have.  I have heard some poor recordings on these and you can hear why it's poor, lol.  

I feel that it's the sweet spot in the Vandersteen line. The Treo has plenty of bass, but it's not tunable and doesn't move as much air as the Quatro.  The 5's are outstanding in their own right and the carbon mids with aluminum bass drivers makes a huge difference also.  I feel the 5's are closer to the 7's in sound and the Quatro's are very close to the 5's, but move less air (physic's aren't changing).  

All in all, I got much more than I expected and couldn't be happier.  I'm one of those who usually keeps his components for many years and I'll be shocked if I sell these anytime soon.  They'd have to change the line and make a speaker near this price range for that to happen and I don't see that anytime soon.  Just a GREAT SPEAKER.  Everyone I've had in here has said the same thing. 

I want to clarify something I posted.  When I said 'Highly percussive' this is how it should have come across and I don't think it did:

It's a highly percussive speaker.  Dynamics (((aren't a strong suit))))) as I think it's one of the rare speakers on the market that does everything really good. 

The dynamics are outstanding.  It just does everything correctly, so it's hard to put into words (at least for me it is) how it sounds.  Been listening to a lot of the Joe Bonamassa live from Carnegie Hall as I was there.  It's a good recording and as my wife said, it's like we were there again.  We sat about 12 rows back center stage.  Perfect seats to let the sound just bloom around us.  I hate music that's in my face. 

Just a great speaker and worth auditioning even if you heard it a few years ago.  I think they are just a bit warmer sounding in the lower mids. 

Cajun, email me and let's talk off line. I'll answer any questions for you. I'm VERY familiar with each and every variant of Quatro he has sold (mine are obviously the newest and to my ear the best sounding). His little tweeks make a nice difference.  Just finished listening to some Charlie Parker and when he hits those high notes on his sax, most systems make me want to run for the hills or they are dynamic, but have no depth of the note.  I just closed my eyes and melted into the solo.

We can talk DAC's too as I have an Ayre QX5/20 and am VERY familiar with their Codex (a best buy IMHO).  Also there are a few of the Audioquest cables that I LOVE with VAndersteens. That's what Richard uses and has for years.  He builds them into his amp and speakers and is a co holder of the DBS patent if I recall correctly.

ctsooner@alumni.ou.edu  get in touch as soon as you can.

Please don't be mad as me.  I looked at a notebook I use after I listen to components and posted what I wrote.  

I believe so.  Are they really huge with a ton of arrayed drivers?  If so, I think they were in the price range of my Quatro's.  They sounded very exciting, but their tone didn't match the VAndersteen's.  I personally don't like any of the high number of driver speakers I've heard over the years.  That includes those Pipedreams and variants.  

I understand why folks like the Tekton's though.  Like horns, they excite and many will use them with the smaller tube amps, but I personally don't like what they do to vocals and a few other things. That's when you lose some of the magic of what the SET amps can do.  I do love the SET sound from mids on up.  That's why I love the Vandersteen amp as he uses and SET design on top and SS where he needs the power down lower in the range.

Just a totally different speaker than what I like, but there are a lot of big name speakers out there now that are tonally off, but exciting in some part or all of the range, but sell well.  That's why there are different speakers and there are always folks who love them.  All is good.

I drive nearly 3 hours to go to Johnny's in NJ just like you guys, lol. He's the most fair person I've ever met in audio.  He totally undersells.  

As for cables, I've tried so many of the main stream as well as many of the boutique and handmade DIY ones.  I am biased to AQ because that's what Richard uses in his builds and what he personally voices them with.  IT just made sense to me.  I have not looked back and continue to end up upgrading within that line.  I just haven't found another cable that is as neutral with these speakers.  I've had the Nordost Odin's in and the AQ 'WEL" soundly hammered them.  Odin's were way too hot on top.  Not coherent and just not natural in MY system to MY ears.  Audence and even Cardas.  Ayre uses Cardas, but I felt the Niagara's I was using at the time was just more coherent from top to bottom.

I haven't heard the Clear, but I'm glad that you are enjoying them.  I think if I were you, I'd ask Johnny to borrow the 88's and see for yourself.  :)

Interesting about your Ayre cable since it's just a rebadged Clear.  They now have the Clear Ulta or something like that.  I was told to check that out.  

What was it about the WEL that you didn't like?  I was floored when I installed it.  I have been using Niagara for a few years and have had Sky and WBY I think they call it, but this Horizon/WEL just does everything so much better. I've had the Nordost Odin, Transparent, MIT 350 wired interconnects (their top wire along with the 770 ref speaker cables that I owned for many years).  I have a WW toslink and love it as it's the only one I know that uses really corning glass and not plastic fibers.  I have had their 7 series interconnect in and it was too bright for me.  Very interesting.  

I am using and loving the WEL balance into the Ayre and the CAstelrock speaker cables.  I love the tonality and neutrality of the AQ cables.  I've tried others in teh system and not liked them.  I will be selling my AQ Niagara 1m cables and my 1.5 M Water cables I think. 

The M5 is a sick amp.  Sounds as good or better than any of the under 40k amps I've heard with Quatro's.  The HRS platforms can't be beat.  I'm going to be putting in a order for the entry one for my Server/DAC.

As for putting anything under any Steen, PLEASE keep in mind your rake.  You have to make an adjustment for anything you put under them. I have two 3" pieces of granite that Richard told me to use. I have friends who are using the single slab 1.5" pieces.  I need 4 washers for the 3" and the 1.5 needs 2 more per speaker.  I'd defiantly do the measurements to reset afterwards as rake is so important to Vandersteen's.  

For most people I'd strongly recommend the granite approach before going against the design and decoupling, but that's just me.  I"m glad that it's working for you as that's the ONLY person you need to make happy.