Using battery power to go off the City's power grid

Not sure why you want to be off grid other than during a thunderstorm?

With proper voltage regulation and filtering grid power is fine. Inverters can be noisy too. Especially under quick peak loads.  Much power thermal losses with inverters too.

The batteries/BMS can handle 200 amps charging and discharging......He is charging with 40 amps and is discharging at 60 amps max.......so they may rise a degree or so....stop worrying.....JUST DO IT!!!!!

This is not a car.....in a car you need the most watts per lb.(energy density).....so LIthium Ion batteries are used.....however, they are not as safe as Lithium Polymer (LifePo4)......In our homes we use LifePo4 because they are generally safer. What the car industry is looking for is even more energy density and even lighter and more safe.....they will get there.....then we can use these batteries with our inverter.

LifePo4 batteries are already very energy dense......a 200 amp hour AGM battery is typically 125 lbs......A 200 amp hour LIfePo4 battery is 49 lbs.  The AGM battery is less than half the price.....but you cannot use all of its capacity and they only last less than half as long......They will actually cost you more over time and perform less good.  LifePo4 is pretty darn good (for now)

Maybe you will come up with some other concern......My sweet child.....I will hold your hand as we cross the street....You will be safe.

Good points. I heard that hybrid car battery manufacturers are looking to replace lithium batteries which can overheat with some sort of new "solid state" technology I don’t know much about.

How hot do your friend's dual Amperetime batteries get?

No matter how you use LifePo4 batteries.....they will last at least 10 years......by that time there will be batteries that have 4 times the capacity, last 30 years, weigh practically nothing and cost practically nothing.....anotherwords, find something else to worry about.  JUST DO IT!!!!!!

ricevs,

Thanks for the comforting words.  However, the low level components could draw 1 (idle)-100 watts (loud music).  Without the battery charger, after 24 hours the battery would lose 24-2400 watt hours, with a dead battery unable to be recharged.  So it makes sense to run the battery charger all the time when not listening, IF you keep your low level components on.  

There is a question of what strategy preserves battery life the longest.  Suppose the battery has 4000 cycles of life.  If the cycle is prolonged by charging less frequently, then the life is prolonged.  But if the battery is constantly being recharged, the short cycles accumulate fast.  With cars, the alternator constantly recharges the battery, and the battery only lasts a relatively few years.  We are hoping these big batteries in our inverter system last longer than car batteries, so what is the best battery charging strategy?  I think I read that Goal Zero advises letting the battery run down a little, but obviously not to a very low level.

Yes, Ric, agreed.

If the battery charger is say 500 watts then the batteries will always be fully charged even if you have your low level components on all the time. Nobody has low level components that draw 500 watts......so just keep the charger on and connected to the battery and when you listen then disconnect the charger from the battery. Come on......this is simple! You do not need to turn anything off.....except maybe your power amp/amps.  Who cares how hot the charger is (they typially are switch mode so they run cool)?  As long as it is rated at 500 watts continuous (or whatever)....it should be able to do it all the time.

Thanks! Looks and sounds fantastic.  

inna - yep, good album

Song of the Nile by Dead Can Dance. Great stuff.

Here is a short video of the Bluetti powering my system. I took a shot of the power usage.

Ricevs,

Makes sense, thanks.  If the inverter is on all the time, but all the electronics plugged into it are off, then there is no current draw from the inverter.  So the batteries won't get drained.  But if the low power electronics like preamp and sources are on all the time, then the batteries will drain at a slow but significant rate.  If you want to keep the low level electronics on all the time, then it seems that the most economical procedure is to keep the inverter off when not listening, then turn it on first, and then the power amp.  Does the battery charger get warm/hot when running the majority of the time?

Correct?

sns,

Good points.  From the international phone access code of 86, Giandel comes from Hong Kong.  I guess your Rockpal is the battery, so your procedure sounds logical.

Doesn't make sense to turn on Giandel after equipment, you know how Chinese based manuals are, something usually lost in translation.

I always turned on my Rockpals prior to equipment power up, never had issue with in rush current. In rush current will be important consideration with both my dac and 845SET amp (if I chose to run on battery power), dac has bank of supercapacitors, 845 nearly 1000V at plate.

I don’t know what he does but it makes no sense (to me...at this moment) what the manual says.....as long as the inverter can handle the surge of the component....then why would it matter which way you turn it on? I believe he leaves the inverter on all the time and turns his amps on and off via the amps.....his JC1+ amps have delayed start up using relays. I believe he leaves all his low level components on all the time....except maybe his 300B based preamp (got to conserve those expensive tubes). He leaves the charger plugged in and running except when listening......so he is always at full battery charge when he starts to listen.

I don’t know what you are talking about when you say "2 to three times your power needs". The inverter only supplies what it is asked. As long as the inverter is large enough, it will work. Now about sound....it could be a way larger than needed inverter will sound better....same with paralleling batteries......these things need to be sonically tested.

You need to have an inverter that will handle the SURGE turn on current of your gear. For instance, my 400 watt Goal Zero will NOT turn on my Purifi Class D amp that only draws 30 watts when idling......because the turn on surge of the power supply in the amp is way above the surge capability of the Goal Zero.....the Goal Zero shuts off when I try to turn on the amp......so, I have an AC switch on my amp that switches between the wall AC and the inverter AC. So, I turn on the amp with the wall AC and then I switch to the Goal Zero power. If I had a 1000 watt Inverter I am sure it could handle the turn on surge. Why would anyone buy an inverter less than 2000 watts (4000 watt surge)?.....They are sooooo cheap ($350 for a Giandel).

Ricevs,

You are absolutely medically correct about the importance of LOVE from your cardiologist.  It is important to have a technically competent cardiologist who has the needed experience in doing catheterizations, stents, but if you don't like his bedside manner that is going to impair your optimal recovery.  But a technically  inexperienced medical student with plenty of love will not offer you the best prospects.  We need both technical competence and emotional support from the doctor.  

We are only beginning to scientifically understand the mechanisms whereby emotional support produces better healing.  Stress reduction is important for cancer prognosis.  The most common stress-related condition, insomnia is mainly due to stress.  Stress impairs the immune system and many biochemical mechanisms.  A spouse who just lost her husband dies soon after, from the extreme grief which impairs her body in numerous ways.  The typical technician-only person thinks he can fix his body just by understanding the known scientific factors.  He won't understand the scientific correlates of emotions for 500 years, if ever.  So he scoffs at emotional factors and claims that love doesn't cure cancer.  He is wrong,  But most practical people know that the emotions are important even if they don't understand the technical basis for emotions.  The analogy with audio excellence is that careful and intelligent listening is employed in addition to technical analysis to get the best sound.  We don't understand all technical factors, but we have better sound than the technician who refuses to accept the evidence from his ears that something that sounds better may have worse specs.

Thanks, sbayne.  I am confused by the turn on procedure in the Giandel 5000 user manual.  It says to turn on your electronics first, and then the inverter.  But since the electronics are plugged into the inverter, when the latter is still off, the electronics wouldn't turn on.  The Giandel has a stepped slow startup, maybe to avoid surges.  With my Shunyata Denali conditioner, I keep it on all the time.  My EQ (like a preamp) is always on, and I just turn on the CD player and Mytek Brooklyn power amp.  The amp has its own safe turn on mechanism, so there are no surges.

So I believe I could turn on the inverter first, wait a minute until it stabllizes, then turn on my CD player and power amp.  Essentially, turning on the inverter activates its AC outputs, but there is no current flow until the electronics are turned on.  There shouldn't be a need to have the inverter provide 2-3 times your power needs if I am correct.

Ricevs, am I correct?  What is the turn on procedure your friend follows with his Giandel 5000?

When calculating, it is advisable to take into consideration the device (IR) value. And "Not" because of the "Initial Rush" of power to the device. As most would think to apply this number.

For audio applications, the gears accumulative (IR) value is actually a good indicator of its overall needs in order to perform at the highest possible resolution. And also, why some other systems sound like "mud".

And why shopping for something in the middle? Yields that same result.

To summarize what I have learned by taking my system to battery power:

1. Make sure to buy one that more than meets your system power requirements and can handle the initial power surge of your amp.

2. The inverter should produce a pure sine wave and remain stable at 120v and 60HZ even under full load.

3. Look for one with heat sinks in addition to just cooling fans - to keep the fans off under normal usage.

IF ANYONE ELSE HAS GONE TO A BATTERY POWERED SYSTEM PLEASE CHIME IN. I know Ric has and I appreciate everything he is doing to spread the word and help others if this something they are interested in. Like he has said many times I hope we are here to learn and have a cordial dialogue - not just argue. 

I think he is in time out, self imposed or otherwise.

The audiophile objectivist needs to please the bot, subjectivist only needs to please him or herself. Man, I'm one happy audiophile having built a wonderful system based on  trust in my aural perceptive abilities.

He joined July 28, 2022 and has over 220 posts. 

Agreed.  He is now on many threads and derailing each one of them. This thread has gone off the tracks and that is too bad really. 

Objectively speaking, he or she (theaudioamp) should find someplace else to preach his or her "gospel. We just aren't collectively intelligent enough to see greatness in his or her every word.

Guys,

There is no use in trying to reason, fight or argue with an objectivist. Their whole reason for existence is to argue and be right......so they will never give in....and they always have to keep arguing and have the last statement. So, just let it lie.....because it takes two to tango.....and that is what he wants.....he wants a fight. So, put your swords away because you cannot win against an objectivist......even though someone "scoring" the "fight" from a distance may give you every round.....it does not matter to him.....he will just keep saying he won. But winning and losing are the job of the ego......so if you are trying to win against someone who will never "say uncle’ then you are in your ego as much as him. All arguing does is make your own ego bigger......is this what you want? Just state the truth and let it lie. If you need to also clarify some point so his "nonesense" is not seen on its own as "truth" then do that but then STOP responding after that. I am done with him......nothing more needs to be said from me about what he thinks.

IT IS DONE........let him have the last word.

I surrender to the love of God.....flowing through my life.

Be Happy.........choose it now.

@sns ,

No, not really. It is more an argument between made up and real.

For instance, one of the people arguing believes that they could tell the difference between $1/4 million of audio equipment either hooked up or not hooked up to a very high end inverters when listened to over Youtube at 192kbps AAC, when the issues between the two videos included auto levelling applied to both videos by Youtube, what appears to be an object blocking one speaker in one of the videos resulting in both a level shift and a significant frequency shift in one channel (I assume a person standing in the wrong spot), what appears to be AGC pumping (the noise floor was pumping +/-3 db which will bring low level signals along with it), and that was coupled with a high amount of reverb. 

It does not matter if you are purely subjective, purely objective, or somewhere in the middle. Any reasonable person will understand the ability to accurately pull a super subtle difference between two setups out of low resolution highly flawed videos such as those is not being honest with themselves.

You start off with two false premises, and use that to arrive at a whole litany of false conclusions:

How do you determine the TRUTH of anything? We are talking about whether a piece of equipment, even a single wire has a sound signature. Inductive reasoning starts with observation, in this case listening under controlled conditions. Most audiophiles have repeatedly heard differences in their homes. They wouldn’t spend money and keep their components if they didn’t hear differences.

False assumptions:

- Ad hoc listening in the home is not remotely controlled

- Perceiving you hear a change is not remotely the same thing as there being a change. As a doctor, you should know this. How much you slept, how much caffeine you had, how comfortable you are in that chair, none of which changes the sound, will change your perception of the sound

- They wouldn’t spend money and keep their components if they didn’t hear differences. ---- There are a ton of things that people absolutely "swear by" that are absolutely not true. Heck, some of them violate fundamental laws of physics, not just common sense. Many of these things people continue to believe in and spent money on. As a doctor, you can certainly (I hope) recognize homepathic solutions as an example of this (something diluted to where the original molecule can no longer exist beyond a slight statistic probability).

Continued false assumptions:

- However, the measurement people start from a stubborn bias that measurement tells the story.

No, engineers and scientists start with the result of listening tests done in controlled circumstances using idealized stimulus that will maximize the ability of us humans to hear differences (or not). Out of an abundance of caution, they will normally use these results as a baseline of what is potentially audible, even though tests with real music show the limits of audibility of many of the things discussed as 20, 40, even 60db higher.

MORE

- "A good medical doctor will listen, but they will also try to understand enough about the drug to know whether the claimed side effect is remotely possible because not all side effects will be possible." This shows how little you know about clinical practice.

I specifically stated "a good doctor" and I am well aware of how and why the medical profession often fails at diagnosis. However, this was also a logic trap with two specific traps. You failed to acknowledge that some side effects are impossible, no matter what the patient claims, and by simply accepting them, you are just as bad as those other doctors you don’t like because you are ignoring their could be another as yet undiagnosed reason. That is what is called a bias trap. The other trap is your expectation that I, and we can assume others, accept your expertise with items of a medical nature as superior, while you try to tell me, who obviously has more experience in this area (including listening), that I am wrong based on ad-hoc reports and feelings.

And you finish with the Coup de grâce, this little diddy, far more indicative of your bias and mine. I could state the under pinnings of why you state something like this, but I see no point.

My conclusion is that either your listening skills are poor, OR more likely you have an agenda bias to interfere with your good hearing ability if it actually is intact.

sns,

Correct.

theaudioamp,

Your entire lengthy post of 8/8 11 PM is FALSE.  In particular, 

"No, any piece of equipment does not have a sound. This is Philelore and is not true."

"And I personally know lots of people who believe stuff that is absolutely not true, but that does not make them or the large amount of people who believe the same thing correct."

How do you determine the TRUTH of anything?  We are talking about whether a piece of equipment, even a single wire has a sound signature.  Inductive reasoning starts with observation, in this case listening under controlled conditions.  Most audiophiles have repeatedly heard differences in their homes.  They wouldn't spend money and keep their components if they didn't hear differences.  They don't care whether measurements corroborate their sonic evaluations.  Their repeated listening evaluations summate into the TRUTH that there are subjective differences when the measurement people cannot find technical answers.

However, the measurement people start from a stubborn bias that measurement tells the story.  They allow their bias to obliterate any listening differences they may hear.  You went into Jay's two videos with a bias to confirm your belief that there are no differences between the two Stromtanks.  Later, you admitted that there are differences and you heard them, but YT flaws could not allow you to draw the obvious conclusions by everyone else who listened and found the S2500 was far superior.

Next point.  You said, "A good medical doctor will listen, but they will also try to understand enough about the drug to know whether the claimed side effect is remotely possible because not all side effects will be possible."  This shows how little you know about clinical practice.  The typical objectivist academic doctor thinks he knows what is possible or impossible, but he bases his beliefs on published studies in academic journals.  If a patient tells him something that he has not read in journals, he says there is no evidence for the patient's claim.  TOTALLY WRONG.  There IS evidence, albeit unpublished, but the dumb doctor is not open minded enough to listen to his patient.  The doctor thinks he knows it all, but sometimes the patient knows better.  Many excellent clinicians I admire write dedications in their books to patients who have taught them things, and they are grateful to their patients for that.

My conclusion is that either your listening skills are poor, OR more likely you have an agenda bias to interfere with your good hearing ability if it actually is intact.  More importantly, you are not open minded enough to trust the ears of people who know there are differences.  These differences are not published in academic engineering journals with double blind studies.  You claim that only double blind experiments are valid.  That shows you have the mindset of that dumb doctor.

Oh boy, another thread taken over by a futile subjective vs objective argument.

I'd only suggest vast majority here subjectivists, we like to experience things for outselves.

I can do initial experiment with Giandel for little initial outlay, lower wattage Giandel, lead acid car battery, cheapo battery charger, some cables. So, I hear improvement  or at least potential, move up, I hear nothing, end of experiment. No big loss of money, and I get to experience rather than listen only to theoreticals. I prefer experiential learning to commands from on high.

Arguing and winning is what the ego does. How are you helping anyone by your words? Love does not care about winning.....Love simply cares about everyone.

When I was in jr. college I took a class called "marriage and family"......The very first thing the teacher did was to draw a six foot line on the chalkboard....and at the left end he wrote "ego"......on the right end he wrote "agape"......He turned around and said that the further we were to the right on this graph the more happy we would be and the more happy others would be.....I about fell off my chair. This is the bottom line......we choose to live somewhere on that line every moment. The evolution of the soul is just that.......moving to the right......or if you made the line vertical....moving upwards to the light (ever raising our vibration). We are all so blessed. We are the very light ourselves.....the light of light....share it freely with everyone.

@ricevs , I will just have to accept that you pull this loving "crap" when you are losing an argument.

"If you have cancer go for the loving doctor"

So, you want your doctor to be unloving? I had three cardiologists....and the only one that figured out what was really wrong was the super loving one. Love does not mean lack of science......love means you care enough about the person that you look deeper because you CARE. Thank God for this loving doctor......I might not even be here now, if he did not care so much.

I would say 98 percent of the threads and interactions on this forum are subjective based......very little talk of measurements, except when an objectivist drops in to stir the pot.......or a product is discussed that was reviewed on ASR.....etc. So, what is an objectivist doing on this forum? Hardly anyone cares about graphs and blah blah. You certainly cannot have a discussion with an objectivist about what sounds good. It is like a atheist walking into a church and waving a science book in the air and talking real loud about how there is no God as it cannot be measured and proved via science. What purpose is this behavior? Does it make anyone happy? This behavior is NOT loving. Love gives people what they want.....not what you want. People here want better sound. Got any of that? What and who are you glorifying? Life is incredible......we are all beautiful.....may we all see and feel our own worth and beauty.

Let's do the "Summer of Love"  forever!!!!!!

Remember the Troggs?....."Love is all around us".....check it out on Youtube.

Still, any piece of electronics has a "sound."  Nobody understands what distortion measurements correlate with a particular sound.

No, any piece of equipment does not have a sound. This is Philelore and is not true.

Ricevs has a longstanding business as a modifier of electronics.  He has determined that different materials in wires have different sounds.  If you don't want to believe his claims, be aware that there are several of his customers I have known personally who vouch for his claims by being pleased with his mods.

And I personally know lots of people who believe stuff that is absolutely not true, but that does not make them or the large amount of people who believe the same thing correct.

Technicians are still in the dark ages of understanding the human hearing mechanism. 

Technicians perhaps,  lots of other people not so much.

Just because you may not find reliable measurements that explain sonic differences, understand that the educated ear is THE best measurement tool of all, in terms of sonic evaluation.

The ear is many things. A good measurement tool it is not. It is a poor measurement tool and a pretty good detection tool. However, it is easily fooled, and hence you must help it along so that it does not make mistakes.  Going to the last statement you make, it is very easy to simulate all sorts of distortion, highly accurately, controllably, repeatably, and then see how people respond to it. Anyone can do it with just a bit of Google research and not a lot of time. It is why I am suspect of so many claims of distortion audibility (as are many people) because it would be easy to demonstrate and validate.

A sincere doctor often can't get his article published because it conflicts with the agenda and business interests of the prestigious journal.

Oh come one. Put together the study, do quality research, repeatable study. You may not get into one of the more prestigious journals but there are so many that are desperate for content anyone can get almost anything published.  A good medical doctor will listen, but they will also try to understand enough about the drug to know whether the claimed side effect is remotely possible because not all side effects will be possible. If they believe blindly that the drug is causing the side effect the patient claims, they could very well miss the real underlying cause of what they are experiencing.

theaudioamp,

I'll accept your statement that inverters are basically switch mode power supplies. Still, any piece of electronics has a "sound."  Nobody understands what distortion measurements correlate with a particular sound.  Ricevs has a longstanding business as a modifier of electronics.  He has determined that different materials in wires have different sounds.  If you don't want to believe his claims, be aware that there are several of his customers I have known personally who vouch for his claims by being pleased with his mods.

Just because you may not find reliable measurements that explain sonic differences, understand that the educated ear is THE best measurement tool of all, in terms of sonic evaluation.  Technicians are still in the dark ages of understanding the human hearing mechanism.  

A good medical doctor such as myself accepts the claims of patients when they say that a certain drug causes side effects, even if there are no published academic studies confirming patient claims.  A bad doctor is one who denies the validity of patient claims just because there are no studies in prestigious medical journals.  Well, I've got news for you--a lot of journals contain false studies that are driven by medico-political agendas.  A sincere doctor often can't get his article published because it conflicts with the agenda and business interests of the prestigious journal.

So much for expecting maturity.

If you have cancer go for the loving doctor .....

"I'm so glad, I'm so glad, I'm glad, I'm glad, I'm glad."  Please sing along!

Choose your reality........you do it every second.  Do you want to be glad?  if so, choose it now......right now.  Do you want to be right?  Then choose it right now.

Would you rather be Loving or Right?  You choose.

Being right is blah, blah, blah (it's whats called a Blah life)......being loving is happiness, joy and sharing.

I am sorry that you cannot interpret measurements and determine how something is likely to sound @ricevs and/or if something will have no additional sound at all. Measurements can help you significantly with one, and completely with that other. That some audiophiles do not believe this does not make it true, it just makes those audiophiles wrong.

w.r.t. inverters, given every single piece of equipment will behave differently when exposed to a different harmonic / noise signature of an AC power source, the best that can be done is generalizations, and one of those is a well designed products will be immune to all but fairly bad AC power. Whether you accept that or not does not change that fact. Additional comments could be made, such as certain distortion characteristics could reduce AC hum on tube amps, or no/low global feedback amps may have issues with certain frequencies of distortion products.  Beyond that, any comments made in careful listening tests, i.e. switching between clean AC, wall, and "inverter" which would have to be made in such a way to reduce listener error, would be applicable only to the specific equipment connected and except in the most egregious cases, which would be readily evident in measurements, would not be at all transportable to other equipment and other connections of equipment.

theaudioamp......yes, I would say you have an agenda and a need for attention and it interferes with your ability to know truth (how something sounds)....just a wild guess.

The only thing TRUE in audio is how something sounds.......audio....means sound........measurements are squiggles on a scope.....they are not audio. In order to know the Truth about audio....you need to do serious listening tests (and they do not need to be blind or double blind......unless you are double deaf). You can trust your hearing.....you can trust your memory.....we are pretty amazing. You have to trust yourself. If you only trust a test instrument.....that is sad.

"If you can’t agree to that please move on." So we have to agree to what you want? or we have to leave? U da boss?

I am all for measurements....they are great....I like numbers. Do they mean anything sonically?.....sometimes they do.....sometimes they don’t. Please measure Inverters any way you like and maybe some measurements will correlate to what we hear.....then we can all learn something.

However, to know what something "sounds like" you have to listen.........Listening is numero uno....everything else is secondary.

And @ricevs , trying to bring some engineering knowledge, and expertise to a topic, as opposed to just guessing and often being wrong is not stirring the pot, unless some people do have an agenda or need for attention and that interferes with it.

@sbayne,

THD is not very revealing of what, if any impact an inverter will have on audio equipment. I am not enamored with pure sine waves because I know what a meaningless goal it is when one considers the equipment connected. I am more interested in high frequency harmonics, and high frequency noise which may cause issues in equipment, noise between line/neutral and ground (if any), etc.

It is not always possible to reduce a complex set of interactions down to a simple number or answer.

ricevs and theaudioamp - How about some middle ground? Can we agree inverters need more measurements (such as THD) BUT that does not invalidate what we are hearing? If you can't agree to that please move on.   

@ricevs I do not answer to you. I will never answer to you. Please attempt to show some maturity.

Again, you will not answer my question......What are you doing on this thread? What is your mission here? To save us all from spending money on Inverters we do not need? We do not need SAVING......We listen on our own and buy the stuff that WE feel makes our stereo better sounding......

You are looking for drama.....if you went to ASR and started saying all this they would just rool their eyes and say...."Well, of course, we already know all that.....you are boring......why don’t you go over to Audiogon where all those subjectivists are and you can really stir the pot there"........and here you are.....just stirring away....every chance you get.

unless you have poor equipment

Your point of view does not help anyone get better sound, it just gets them to spend money, needlessly based on limited data points, limited knowledge of how audio equipment works, and beliefs about what impacts audio that are not supportable.

all inverters do not sound different

I will emphasize a word here to assist in reading comprehension. ALL. That implies that every single inverter will sound different from every other inverter and that is just not true. With most equipment and most inverters (sine wave of decent quality), they will sound the same because power supplies are designed to reject noise/harmonics on the AC line and if they are designed properly, they will.  Some equipment will have poor power supply rejection and will be more susceptible to power line harmonics. That is a poor design.

This is what you said.....direct quote

"No ricevs, all inverters do not sound different unless you have poor equipment. Some people believe that everything sounds different and are more open to suggestion. Other people are more skeptical and realistic. Actually I do know how a Powerwall Inverter sounds. It sounds just like the AC line, which sounds like exactly nothing in my system."

So, what are you doing on this thread if you feel that inverters are worthless and that your wall AC sounds like "nothing"? What is your purpose here?

You assume a lot.  You have a fixed idea how things work.....However, your "point of view" does not help anyone get better sound. You just expound "science" in an effort to feel better about yourself. You are already glorious.....you do not need to "try" to show us how wonderful you are.....you are truly loved.....because you are worthy and deserving.....just like everyone else on the planet.

So, who is going to be the second to try the 5000 watt Gaindel system and get back to us?

I didn't state that all inverters sound the same. I said that the Powerwall with my system has no sound. If you read what I wrote, I have pointed out that inverters are effectively large switch mode power supplies and people are just blindly promoting them without any idea of the noise profile. You, based on your friend, have made a ton of conclusions and promoted the Giandel as "great" when you have no idea of the distortion spectrum, or the noise spectrum and how that will behave with the vast majority of audio electronics out there.  I have pointed out, quite correctly, that pure since wave has no technical advantage in terms of reducing the noise of audio power supplies or improving how they operate. Sine waves are simply what we must live with due to the nature of rotating machinery as our primary power generation methodology. 

You also assume that one must have user reports of a specific inverter to have any meaning. Fortunately, there are engineers that don't have to work under your limitations.

What you think of as an "attack" is simply holding the mirror up to you.

You reported that you heard no difference between the powerwall and the wall AC......and you also stated that all inverters sound the same. Anotherwords, you have contributed nothing. How does what you say help anyone get better sound? I have also listened to an inverter.......I am using a Goal Zero Yeti 400 on my system right now and it improves the sound......but since my friend had a Goal Zero and then went to the better sounding Ecoflo Pro and then to the way, way, way better sounding Giandel system.....I know my Goal Zero is yesterdays paper.

What really matters is when others try the Giandel system and report back.....Nothing you or I SAY can improve the sound of someones stereo......but what I shared might certainly lead to that, if someone trys it. What do you recommend for better sounding AC? Nothing? It is all perfect?

When you say "help others to understand how audio works".......this is all in context to your belief that it is nothing but measurements are meaningful. What really matters is how something sounds. Can you help them get better sound? Or just tell them how it works.....according to your belief?

Audio, for me is not about belief......it is about BE and LIVE. You experience sound.....you experiene music......it is not about some opionion of what matters or does not matter.......the ear KNOWS.....the heart KNOWS.......the small brain just thinks it knows......but it really knows nothing of significance, if it is not open to BE and LIVE.......Do you think joy and love and peace and beauty? Yes, thoughts of these can leade to those states.......but really what you want to do is to FEEL joy and love and peace and beauty. Will you let yourself FEEL? As the saying goes......Would you rather be right.....or LOVING? You choose, every second.

@ricevs you seem to be attacking people, but from a position of weakness. Your contribution has been to report what other people hear. I reported what a Tesla Powerwall sounded like, it my house, with my system (seeing as I have one for backup and solar). I also try to help people understand how audio equipment works. In a "field" so laden with misinformation it is easy to get led astray by people who know only slightly more than the person asking or worse know less but think they know more.