Upgrading Fuses

Jeff_jones... Traditional "measurements" usually report specific characteristics of the signal. The measured parameter can remain unchanged while other parameters change, and affect the sound. The significant parameter for audio is "how it sounds". and the best measurement instrument is the human ear. There is a way to make the ear measurement in a completely objective manner.

In the case of an interconnect...

1. Input a common signal to both channels of your system. You can use a real music signal.

2. Adjust gains and, if necessary, frequency response so that the signal measured across the hot terminals of the amps is zero ( a null). You can make this measurement using a meter or scope. or by ear using a headset.

3. Insert an extra interconnect in one channel.

4. Repeat the null measurement of step 2.

If the null obtained in step 4 is the same as step 2 the interconnect has no effect.

Way to hold your own Vance. Isn't education sometimes a bitch for those who won't listen.

Yeah, thanks for edjamacatin' us ignurnts real good in the ways of faith learnin's!

"Isn't education sometimes a bitch for those who won't listen. "

Seems like there is a contradiction in there somewhere? :)

Eldartford - Interesting test approach, thanks. To be honest I'm lazy and completely undisciplined on testing ic's & speaker cable. I just keep the ones that seem to sound the best (and don't cost that much). One of the vendors, maybe the name was something like alpha core, used to sell cables that were built like giant capacitors, two flat thin conductors with a very thin slice of insulation in between, would have been interesting to run your test on them as I think they might have been the most extreme attenuators in the marketplace. Surprisingly to me they (speaker cables were tested not ic's) seemed to screech the upper frequencies instead of squash them.

Experience is the best teacher. There is no room left for actual experience in this thread. It is now the typical measurements circle jerk that has as much to do with musical enjoyment as jacking off has to do with sex. Enjoy.

"Why isn't this debate about science" - Metro4

Simple, because it is not science that is at play. It is science in the service of music. Music is art. Art is human expression. If you think that the sophistication of electronic science matches the complexity of musical sounds (art), you don't understand art.

"The onus of proof ALWAYS falls on the person making the claim, not the other way around" -Metro4

Really? In my universe (and that of many here) it is you (and others here) that are making the claim; the claim that there is no difference. YOU prove it; if proof must be provided. Prove that there is no difference. Why does it bother you that some of us trust our ears? Why does it bother you that some of us perhaps have more sensitive hearing (by way of nature or training) in certain specific ways than others do? Why do you think that we have learned all that there is to know about the science of sound as it relates to sound and it's reproduction?

Frogman,

I certainly share your view, but these guys aren't listening to anyone but themselves and likely never will. Notice that one of them even has the audacity to talk about his subjective preference in cables! Of course, cables are different! Sheesh. Talk about calling the kettle black. Their motto is, "My measurements are better than your measurements." Or maybe it's "You have to prove your opinions are valid, but my B.S. is the gospel." No one asked for proof of anything here, but they will smother every voice that wants to simply talk about what they hear. FEAR THE EARS!!!!

This is the same kind of silliness that's going on over at the "What's the Best Speaker in the World..Objectively" thread. Wanker central.

There was once chef who asked other chefs whether they'd ever tried a very expensive brand of sea salt in a special recipe. One chef said, "It's amazing. You should try it." Another chef said, "I tried it and it's better but not really worth the extra money." Another chef replied, "It tastes the same as regular salt to me."

Finally, a very angry group of chefs demanded that people should stop endorsing this expensive salt because everyone knows that all salt is the same, "Laboratories have proven there's no difference," they cried. Some even claimed fraud was being committed. When asked if they'd ever tried the salt, they replied, "Of course not! They'd take away our cooking licenses if we were to do something so absurd!" One even said, "I wouldn't put arsenic in my food. Why would I put expensive salt in it?" Another angry chef said, "You can't rely on your own taste buds. They lie." After a pause, one of the complaining chef's changed the subject and began talking about the many different types of water he served in his restaurant.

I don't know about you, but I prefer to eat where the chefs rely on their senses and eat their own food. I use the same rationale when considering advice.

Wow!!! All this over the sound of a fuse?

No, Zmanastronomy, all this is over people who devote their time ridiculing others who are simply sharing the joys of their hobby. How'd it be if someone went to your systems page and kept posting comments about how "bogus" your homemade room treatments were and demanding you prove they work? (I happen to think they're cool, inspiring and impressive, btw). It's a free country but it's a shame when a few use that freedom as an excuse to ruin it for the many. I don't go to a "which amplifier has the best specs" thread and throw rocks at everyone because I don't happen to care much about specs. Heckling may seem trivial, until you are the one being heckled.

Your posts about your experiences on this topic have been welcome, appropriate and instructive...not because I think so (our views about the fuse happen to actually conflict) but because they have been in keeping with the stated purpose of the thread.

"How'd it be if someone went to your systems page and kept posting comments about how "bogus" your homemade room treatments were and demanding you prove they work? (I happen to think they're cool, inspiring and impressive, btw)."

He or she would probably like it & would tell you how to measure the effects if you wished. Effective room acoustic treatments leave a measurable footprint and many of us take various db measurements across our listening room when establishing acoustic treatment & subwoofer setup up & etc.
There are some pretty out there room acoustics things, telephone playback of magic signals for example, that do not leave a measurable footprint.
It could be argued I guess that one shouldn't refrain from spending money on the out there room acoustics things because they haven't tried them ?

"Why does it bother you that some of us perhaps have more sensitive hearing (by way of nature or training) in certain specific ways than others do? "

I think we all except the above to be a fact. I don't know that it bothers anyone but maybe it does. The thing is that the thresholds of human hearing are well established and are orders of magnitude below the thresholds of signal detection by other means. If you tell your neighbor that you can hear a mouse pass wind during a thunderstorm, he is going to give you a funny look.

There are scientific laws of physics governing room treatments.

If someone thinks that a particular configuration of wire (or fuse) makes audio sound better, that's fine by me, even if I disagree. However, if that person makes (or buys) such wire, brands it, and sells it at a ridiculous price that is not OK by me.

Eldartford,

Don't buy it then. No one here makes or sells fuses. No one here needs your protection and no one asked for it.

If someone doesn't buy one of these upscale fuses, do they not have the right to comment about them? I would think that any person established in the audiophile community would have a legitimate right to comment, particularly if they see something that they think doesn't look right.

Good Lord.

Experience is the best teacher. There is no room left for actual experience in this thread. It is now the typical measurements circle jerk that has as much to do with musical enjoyment as jacking off has to do with sex. Enjoy.

It seems to me that you've been the guy pounding away the most. (That's at the keyboard).

Experience is a great teacher, but rational thought will take you much farther.

Touché. Were the rest of the remarks here so clever. I'm done.

Vhiner... My comments are about fraudulent advertising, not just about fuses. If the market were more than tiny the Feds would be after the charlitans.

[Vhiner] "It doesn't matter because this debate is clearly not about science."

[Metro04] "Why isn't this debate about science?"

[Frogman] "Simple, because it is not science that is at play. It is science in the service of music. Music is art. Art is human expression. If you think that the sophistication of electronic science matches the complexity of musical sounds (art), you don't understand art."

[metro04] Pertaining to the topic of THIS debate, regarding boutique fuses, it most certainly is, and it doesn't specifically have to apply to "music" reproduction. If a person merely wishes to listen to broadcasted "news" or any other non “music” material, it still requires electronic amplification and speakers, of which both took science and engineering to produce!
___________________________________________________________

[Vhiner] “I hear what I hear. You can't prove I don't and i don't feel the need to prove that i do . If it works, it works. This is a fact that drives some service technicians crazy.”

[metro04] “The onus of proof ALWAYS falls on the person making the claim, not the other way around." And “It's no different than anyone claiming they can read minds, predict the future, move objects telepathically, etc, etc...”

[Frogman] “Really? In my universe (and that of many here) it is you (and others here) that are making the claim; the claim that there is no difference. YOU prove it; if proof must be provided. Prove that there is no difference.

[metro04] I’m sorry, but “your universe (and that of many here)”, do NOT reflect real world quantified verification processes for medical, science, engineering, scholastic research methodology, or the likes. Almost every design, development, or breakthrough requires a variety and battery of methodical, multi-verification processes. No mere individual can profess an unsubstantiated claim without having to prove their findings, hence the burden of proof obligation.

Can you show me any examples of science or engineering-based methodical multi-verification methods taking place within any of the fancy fuse claims being made by exclusive auditory auditioning, especially when factoring in well-researched and documented human hearing deficiencies?

According to your thinking, anyone can profess outlandish claims about ANYTHING and not be held accountable. I’m afraid human behavior, in general, based on history, will not agree with you aside from modern-day “audiophiles”. I’m still afraid the onus defaults to the individuals making claims.

[Frogman]”Why does it bother you that some of us trust our ears? Why does it bother you that some of us perhaps have more sensitive hearing (by way of nature or training) in certain specific ways than others do? Why do you think that we have learned all that there is to know about the science of sound as it relates to sound and it's reproduction?”

[metro04] I stopped getting into these pointless debates for quite awhile now, though I still periodically read through these forums and several others online. Either camp seldom converts the other, no matter which controversial topic. Like others, I find those threads entertaining, but still raise an eyebrow or shake my head when posters tout overwhelming or huge improvements from cables, boutique fuses, or pseudo-science products based on listening alone - rarely deploying any additional verification process, and especially never with any test equipment to support their potentially psychological or sociological influenced “opinions”. For some reason, egos play a significant role in this hobby, and outlandish claims get touted endlessly as gospel, yet use every possible excuse to avoid or provide verification of their elitist claims, or sight endless testing method flaws. Since most lack adequate electronics and engineering background to understand the well-established fundamentals and physics, are highly susceptible to embellished marketing and placebo influences. All they have is their hearing, but conveniently ignor documented human hearing deficiencies. When questioned by some of us about what we consider to be questionable levels of performance gains, often resort to the tired old “if you can’t hear the difference…”, or “your system must not be resolving enough”, or deploy a variety of other condescending elitist BS, yet offer not a shred of evidence to prove they heard, or can hear anything.

That’s where “Vhiner” struck a nerve, and that’s what bothers me. The rest is in the writing and seems his endless egotist big-man-on-campus posting count now dominates the thread, besides his endless off topic diversion nonsense.

All the manuals of my components warn against attempts at fiddling with the innards as there are no user-serviceable parts. How do I go about changing fuses?

As far as I know, not every equipment benefits highly from high quality fuses and that's what happened in my system to, however partially.

I bought one Furutech for my Cary 300B and it changed things in the good way. The sound become bit warmer/smoother and fuller, took some sharpness away. Another fuse, also from Furutech, was installed in my CD player, Unison Research Unico, but the results are doubtful, not bad or worse at all, but if I can hear even more difference than say from Cary upgrade only, not sure. I guess I have to install the original fuse back to hear that, but it never bother me, so, I just leave like it is.
Furutech fuses, as I have read, requires around 100 hours of burn in, but I found them to open up with first 5 hours already and indeed even better with longer use.

Even this is a simple wire, as some folks thinks, it still a wire and the power gets through it, just as through power cable, isn't? So, why power cables make that huge differences in some, or almost every, situation and fuse cant?

I don't see any other complain here than the high price only, but before you consider to buy expensive power cable, just try to roll the fuse first and you may save some cash for something else, who knows...

Enjoy the music

Cheers

Jtein,

Not all amps have fuses...Krell for example. I would not risk voiding a warranty for any reason. You should contact the manufacturer about this. It's critical that you replace fuses with the proper specifications required by the manufacturer to avoid damaging your equipment. If it's a large 10 amp slow blow then that is exactly what you need to use.

PS Audio has authorized the HiFi Tuning fuse upgrade for their gear and the company's CEO has blogged about the sonic benefits. It's a major reason why I tried the fuses....that and other user feedback. Hope this helps.

09-26-11: Vhiner
"Not all amps have fuses...Krell for example."

That's crazy talk. Must have a fuse, no? I've never heard of such a thing. For nothing else so that your house doesn't burn down.

Krell amps use no fuses. I believe so they don't impact the sound quality.

I'll just wait for a knowledgable Krell owner with experience to post on this question. I know someone who owns four of them and he says they have no fuses. Until then I'm sure there'll be a week-long theoretical debate about it.

Of course Krell uses fuses. Go to their website and download the manuals like I did and read about the fuse specs like I did.

I stand corrected. Sorry. I rarely post heresay. It won't happen again.

I own 2 Krell KSA 250s and a pair of MDA 500s and have just double checked the owners manuals and according to the manual Krell has developed circuit topologies without fuses because they impact the sound quality. Instead they developed their own proprietary circuitry that self monitors the amp and will shut the amps down if their is a problem. I would be surprised if they would abandon this technology in more recent amps. Krell amps were developed to power up the legendary Apogee speakers and will play into a dead short. Some have even suggested one could arc weld with them. I would have copied and pasted from the manual directly but was not allowed because it is PDF form.
One might conclude that while the use of fuses is required to protect our expensive audio
equipment, it is not in the best interest of the components sonic potential,
thus the need for higher quality fuses to counter the effects of the fuses.
In fact many audiophiles have wired around the fuses or installed solid pieces of copper in place of the fuses for their systems sonic benefit. Of course this is risky, you could blow the hell out or your equipment! So I'll be safe and have better sound by buying audiophile fuses.
thus a better quality fuse that both protects the circuitry and p

I love reading posts by people with first-hand experience. Thanks Sgr.

Sorry to beat the heck out of this Krell fuse thing.
Interesting about the KSA 250, it's the only one I saw that does not use fuses. I looked at 4 or 5 other manuals and they all spec'd the fuses.
Vhiner - You have been redeemed ;)

Talk about getting OT...

Sebrof,

No redemption for me...I'm here to learn and I think your post generated some much needed insight into how at least one equipment designer views fuses, which I did not know about, namely that fuses may degrade sound. I was similarly skeptical when I first heard about amps with no fuses.

" I looked at 4 or 5 other manuals and they all spec'd the fuses."

They do describe operation of their installed circuit breaker used instead of an incoming power fuse on the KSA 250 though. The interesting thing in the manual to me was the warning not to fiddle with a different power supply cable, almost as if they were using power cable impedance as part of the protection scheme?
One could discuss whether fuses & breakers sound different, but I wouldn't recommend it:).

09-26-11: Sgr
“Krell amps use no fuses. I believe so they don't impact the sound quality.”

...Orrr, because circuit breakers offer particular advantages over fuses in high-current applications, as with most commercial welding equipment, since you made reference to the KSA-250’s abilty, of which I happen to own one driving Scintillas.

09-26-11: Vhiner
“I'll just wait for a knowledgable Krell owner with experience to post on this question. I know someone who owns four of them and he says they have no fuses. Until then I'm sure there'll be a week-long theoretical debate about it.”

…Though true for Krell’s amps, is blatantly untrue for their preamps, of which incorporate “standard” fuses for which Krell managed to achieve their sonic goals without boutique fuses.

09-26-11: Sebrof
“Of course Krell uses fuses. Go to their website and download the manuals like I did and read about the fuse specs like I did.”

09-26-11: Vhiner
“I stand corrected. Sorry. I rarely post heresay. It won't happen again.”

…Classic!

09-26-11: Sgr
“I own 2 Krell KSA 250s and a pair of MDA 500s and have just double checked the owners manuals and according to the manual Krell has developed circuit topologies without fuses because they impact the sound quality.”

…And just where in Krell’s KSA-250 manual does it say “without fuses because they impact the sound quality”? To reiterate, Krell uses them in their preamps, yet opted to use circuit breakers in their high-current amps for strategic reasons.

“One might conclude that while the use of fuses is required to protect our expensive audio equipment, it is not in the best interest of the components sonic potential, thus the need for higher quality fuses to counter the effects of the fuses. In fact many audiophiles have wired around the fuses or installed solid pieces of copper in place of the fuses for their systems sonic benefit. Of course this is risky, you could blow the hell out or your equipment! So I'll be safe and have better sound by buying audiophile fuses, thus a better quality fuse that both protects the circuitry and p”

…Pure unsubstantiated opinion! Won’t you please educate us on exactly what the construction differences are aside from gold plated ends and printed directional arrows?

09-26-11: Vhiner
“I love reading posts by people with first-hand experience. Thanks Sgr.”

…What “first-hand experience”?

09-27-11: Vhiner
“Sebrof, No redemption for me...I'm here to learn and I think your post generated some much needed insight into how at least one equipment designer views fuses, which I did not know about, namely that fuses may degrade sound. I was similarly skeptical when I first heard about amps with no fuses.”

…Which designer’s fuse views regarding “namely that fuses may degrade sound”?


09-27-11: Jeff_jones
" They do describe operation of their installed circuit breaker used instead of an incoming power fuse on the KSA 250 though. The interesting thing in the manual to me was the warning not to fiddle with a different power supply cable, almost as if they were using power cable impedance as part of the protection scheme? One could discuss whether fuses & breakers sound different, but I wouldn't recommend it:)”

…Jeff, my take was that Krell’s statement pertained to buyers potentially swapping out power cords without acknowledging current ratings for the amp's current demands. The later part of you paragraph is what some seem to be overlooking, and “probably” will never become a niche market for obvious reasons to several of us, though I would never bet against it.

Circuit breakers are appropriate for power amps, where overheating due to prolonged high power operation is not uncommon. Reset the breaker, reduce volume, and resume the concert.

In a preamp, fuse blowout is associated with some fault in the circuit, and routine replacement (if you have one on hand) without troubleshooting is not appropriate.

Metro04,

You, sir, are a genius.

[yawn]

I hope this means it's time for your nap, Metro04. That last post must've been exhausting.

Regarding fuses, I suppose we could be victims of a 'ripoff' by audiophile fuse manufacturers. Maybe they haven't done anything to them at all. I'm sure there are even counterfeit fuses being made as well as power cords, interconnects, and speaker wire. How many people are going to take apart their $5000.00 interconnects to make sure they have really got what they paid for and I might add would kow the difference between the components of their interconnects anyway? I have been both a witness to and victim of "psychoacoustic effects" before and probably will be again. The fact is in this case, two other audiophiles and I, took apart my PS Audio PWD after listening for about a half hour, and changed the fuses and listened again. Changing the fuses took about a half hour as I changed the fuses in the PWT as well. We were all skeptical about hearing a difference and voiced concerns about the PWD cooling off and not sounding as good because of being unplugged. Then we hooked everything up and listened. For the first time in my experience with the PWD there the sonics did not take a hit after being unplugged. The PWT sounded better with the new fuses installed even having cooled off. I have since removed the fuses and replaced them with the stock ones and listened again, and what do you know, the PWD had taken a step backwards, so I replaced the stock fuses with the Supremes again, and the sound came back. Now I'm not saying that these fuses transformed my system into audio Nirvana, but they do bring the quality up a notch by at least 2000%! Just joking! I did make sure I purchased the fuses from a reputable company, (The Cable Company) so hopefully they are comfortable with the legitimacy of their suppliers. The Cable Company does offer a 30 refund by the way, so doubters could try the fuses and send them back if they could not hear a difference. Just ask for Paul Jenkins. By the way, Paul McGowan of PS Audio, still endorses these tweaked up fuses even though they are not selling them anymore.
As for my statements about why Krell used circuit breakers instead of fuses in the KSA 250 I guess I did infer that the reasons had to do with sound quality. There could be other reasons.

The Gospel according to Metro04:

{metro04}…"Pure unsubstantiated opinion!"

[metro04] “your universe (and that of many here)”, do NOT reflect real world quantified verification processes for medical, science, engineering, scholastic research methodology, or the likes. Almost every design, development, or breakthrough requires a variety and battery of methodical, multi-verification processes. No mere individual can profess an unsubstantiated claim without having to prove their findings, hence the burden of proof obligation."

It's very important that, from this point on, everyone should follow Mr. Metro's rules and regulations. If you fail to do so, you are clearly either superstitious, mentally challenged, deluded or part of a a criminal fraud. Whatever experience you have is inadmissible unless accompanied by certified letters from academic editorial boards because scientific journals never err.

Mr. Metro has further established, once and for all, that any reviews or opinions expressed by the representatives of Stereophile, Paul McGowan, Positive Feedback, Stereo Times and many more publications easily accessible on line regarding high end fuses all reflect the thoughts of people who are either in the pockets of advertisers, deluded, con artists, or mentally challenged.

I'm grateful to Herr Metro for showing me and everyone else that what any of us hear is irrelevant unless it is supported by research studies. If we could rid this and all forums of the "pure unsubstantiated opinion" that he finds so upsetting, the world would be a much more orderly, easy-to-comprehend place. I'm hoping his precepts will be adopted by audio societies across America. This chaos has gone on long enough!

Now that high end fuses have been thoroughly debunked, perhaps Mr. Metro will enlighten us about power cords, power conditioners, and digital interconnects.

Thank goodness, I finally see the light. (unless my eyes are lying to me as my ears apparently are)

09-27-11: Vhiner
"Metro04,You, sir, are a genius."

...As your endless postings of empty dribble clearly illustrates, you, sir, are NOT!

"I'm sure there are even counterfeit fuses being made as well as power cords, interconnects, and speaker wire."

I think you are right.
Cardas has, or used to have, problems with others counterfeiting their cables & has/had info on there website on how to spot a fake. There also was a internet big to-doo over an established cable manufacturer re-naming an existing power cable and bumping the price somewhere around 500%. When you read cable manufacturer website info you see the occasional comment about "that other guy" basically just using cable made by the existing large scale production manufacturers and then making it more cosmetically appealing.
When I'm in doubt on a tweak, I try to see if I can find information about the brick and mortar production facilities that the vendor is using. If I can't verify such facilities exist, it makes me go hummm.

"How many people are going to take apart their $5000.00 interconnects to make sure they have really got what they paid for"
Folks are nerdy enough to take apart blown fuses and check them against specs for common production fuses though. If you eventually blow a few you could probably sell the corpses on this website. I and many others are too cheap to buy new pricey fuses just to tear them up for curiosities sake.

I''ve never claimed to be a genius, but I know when i'm in the presence of one, metro04. Even if I'm far beneath your level, i hope you won't abandon us and stop despensing advice!

So here goes: I'm in a bit of a panic. I can't find any independent, vetted research studies to support Conrad-Johnson's claim that the teflon capacitors they use affect the sound in their equipment. Per Your guidelines Meteo04, this must mean I've been ripped off. I was hoping you could post the academic studies you used for buying all of your equipment. This would help all of us make much better purchasing choices.

To the scientifically approaching people:

Explain me what is the "life" in any living being. What happens to this "life" after the living being dies? Where does it go? Can you track it? Can your degrees create or measure that "life"? If you can do that and explain my questions, I will start believing the following:
All amps are same
All wires are same
All fuses are the same
All humans....nope..that is going too far.

I guess some things cannot be explained by measurements or science. We can argue - why do we believe that humans evolved out of apes? Have you guys seen it happen with your own eyes? Nope, but we still believe it. On the other hand if we hear a component and find that it does sound different, why the hell are we arguing about it? It is in front of our very own eyes and we are listening to it with our very own ears!! He he he...got carried over.

The people on the other side of the fence can say, the non-believers are actually the ones who are wrong. Why? Because they "assume" everything in audio is the same - without actually using (trying) the product. Yes snake oil exists in abundance in any hobby. But we have the equipments (namely our ears) to identify them. Why not give it a try without prejudice? BTW, not everyone hears the same. and that could be the reason some of us believe and some don't.

So, lets continue with the original topic and let each of us have our own opinions :-)

Amen, Milpai.

Bless you, Milpai.
So much of debate hangs on unproven, underlying assumptions; e.g., our technologically enhanced senses can fully grasp reality. Hundreds of years ago humanity lacked instruments to "see" bacteria that caused millions of deaths in plague. Our inability to detect them didn't negate their effects. What instrumentation do we lack today to understand causative agents of perceived effects? Inability to measure cause is not a valid reason for dismissing effect.

09-28-11: Vhiner
“I''ve never claimed to be a genius, but I know when i'm in the presence of one, metro04. Even if I'm far beneath your level, i hope you won't abandon us and stop despensing advice! So here goes: I'm in a bit of a panic. I can't find any independent, vetted research studies to support Conrad-Johnson's claim that the teflon capacitors they use affect the sound in their equipment. Per Your guidelines Meteo04, this must mean I've been ripped off. I was hoping you could post the academic studies you used for buying all of your equipment. This would help all of us make much better purchasing choices.”

>>>Vhiner, I realize that you had to wear a special helmet during childhood, but continuing to wear it is restricting essential blood flow to your gray matter. It’s becoming quite evident that you have a fetish for seeing and re-reading your own delusional material in print. I can’t imagine how popular you must be on facebook or twitter.

Anyways, regarding your panic attack; I would bet you a handsome wad of your Monopoly money that highly respected Conrad-Johnson has measurements to support their design, engineering, and testing result … just like Pass, Krell, Levinson, etc, etc, and is something anyone with capable test equipment could verify. That pretty much goes for any equipment with quoted/written specifications. With that said, just where is all that data for aftermarket tweaks, cables, and pseudo-science products?! Well? Yeah, exactly!!! Next!

09-28-11: Vhiner
“The Gospel according to Metro04:The Gospel according to Metro04:”

“It's very important that, from this point on, everyone should follow Mr. Metro's rules and regulations. If you fail to do so, you are clearly either superstitious, mentally challenged, deluded or part of a a criminal fraud. Whatever experience you have is inadmissible unless accompanied by certified letters from academic editorial boards because scientific journals never err.”

>>>Uhhh, excuse me Mr. alcohol-syndrome baby, but your idiotic babblings are not my rules and regulations, but established practices around the world in every sector of which I’ve already stated examples! If you can’t keep up, take notes!!! And where exactly in my postings do I allude to: “you are clearly either superstitious, mentally challenged, deluded or part of a criminal fraud.”?

>>>Yeah, thought not, though you do seem to have a Politian’s knack for stretching, embellishing, and sensationalizing facts!

“Mr. Metro has further established, once and for all, that any reviews or opinions expressed by the representatives of Stereophile, Paul McGowan, Positive Feedback, Stereo Times and many more publications easily accessible on line regarding high end fuses all reflect the thoughts of people who are either in the pockets of advertisers, deluded, con artists, or mentally challenged.”

>>> And again with stretching, embellishing, and sensationalizing facts! The conversation went as follows below: Note my exact wording of questions asked, and it is WELL understood that many equipment reviews are positively biased if magazines and reviewer wish to continue advertising for companies they review for. Either Vhiner is ignorant to this fact, or refuses to acknowledge the reality. I have yet to locate a fuse review with measureable results I enquired about. If you can post a link here, I’d be happy to read it!

09-22-11: Vhiner
“P.S. In addition to being an award-winning editor and journalist, Robert Harley is a respected engineer who has addressed this tired,old debate countless times. John Atkinson provides countless measurements of audiophile products."

09-22-11: Metro04
Which month's magazine article did RH or JA address this fuse issue will measureable results? These are payed magazine reviewers, correct?”

Metro04,

That was brilliant. It is hard to keep up.

Now, back to my main question: could you please post the academic studies you consult before you buy your equipment. I'm eager for the bedtime reading.

I'm a bit surprised that you're willing to bet money on an unsubstantiated opinion that Conrad-Johnson has measurements to support all of its design decisions. Please post the supporting document! Or have you altered your precepts? I'm sorry I have such a hard time keeping up. Is it now that only other people have to provide studies or documents when presenting their suppositions? Have you posted any studies yet? I can hardly wait.

Metro04'

"Payed" (sic) magazine reviewers like Robert Harley and John Atkinson have written extensively about how measurement methods are routinely being developed that enable us to explain things that people hear which could not have been measured or explained in the past.

The best example pertains to digital audio. In the early days engineers were outraged by people who claimed that all digital playback devices were not the same. Some engineers pointed to their spes and said that CD's provided "perfect sound", Zeros and ones are zeros and ones, they argued. The measurements show that what goes in is exactly what goes out.

Then jitter measurements were developed and, lo and behold, it was discovered that the lowly listeners had been right all along. Digits are not just digits and all cd players are not equal in terms of sound reproduction quality.

People like Harley and Atkinson contend that it is not measurements that are the problem; it is people who worship those measurements.

But of course these two gentlemen are not geniuses like Metro04.

Ghosthouse - Milpai

Fuses.
Not, wonders of nature, magic and mysticism, limits of the universe stuff.
Just lumps of metal that you pass current through & that have a limited number of properties that are easy to measure & quantify and understand.

No rocket surgery involved here.