Tube buffer in tape loop@

I would never use a cheap tube buffer on a 8K+ Esoteric SACD Player. 

Fair enough.  I am certainly not intending to listen to all music through the buffer.  It looks to me like a fairly cheap and practical way of making listening to very bright recordings a bit more pleasant.

6SN7 valves can be extremely noisy. BUT they say there is no more than .1 distortion from 10hz to 100khz.

Placement would be important for noise too. It is point to point..

You are all SS. That is usually the way the amp is voiced, it is SS. Silver disk? Little harsh, edgy, bright. Its the recording usually, AY?

You have an extra 700.00 dollars?

These are question I ask and answer myself..

Regards

That will work but...make sure you use your preamp as the source and just don't go direct CD to buffer to tape monitor, that would put full signal to your amp. Having said that, I'm not a big fan of tube buffers, most are designed to add distortion and the low distortion types are not that noticeable as it should be. 

Icon Audio only says this because tape loops are exceedingly rare any more. No, you can not damage anything with a true "tape" loop. They must be referring to something else.
Have at it.
Make sure to have return privedges if it doesn’t do it for ya.
What russ69 said, you could well be disappointed.

Tube buffers are used to cure impedance mismatches between components, therefore, if your source and preamp have a mismatch the buffer will help otherwise a waste of money.

Thanks, useful stuff.
As far as I can see now, the path would be CD player > pre-amp CD input (as per usual) > tape out to buffer > buffer to tape in.
I had a chat with a UK supplier who takes returns for a full refund within a 14-day period.  I am considering an experimental tweaklet, not knowing the first thing about valves.  No idea how it will sound.
I don't know what impedance mismatches are, but my aim is to see if I can get a softer, warmer tone with some recordings which at the moment I'm finding uncomfortably bright.  According to Icon Audio, that's what their device does.

Go for it. 

If the buffer makes listening more enjoyable then why not.

I find some 90’s rock sounds a bit harsh and I was considering adding a valve device.

I ask you this, why color/soften everything else because of a few bad recordings from the 90’s?
Go here and find better releases of the same ones, they all sound different like this Stevie Nicks one (all green blocks are the best if possible) click on them to find the cat no. and go search for it used on ebay.
Original earliest CD’s are the best usually and streamed/downloads are usually compressed junk
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=&album=Bella+Donna


Cheers George

Yup I agree with that on all the way.. George is right..

If you like the tube sound get a tube amp. ADD another 1500.00 or so and you can swap, biamp or just go SS. That would be the better rout.
More "tinker-ability", YES IT IS A WORD.. I just made it up.. :-)

You got some bad recordings, AY?

Regards

Just to add, just look how they "crushed" compressed the later Traveling Wilburys albums for the streaming/downing customers, compared to the early 1988 Vol 1 album on cd/vinyl
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Traveling+Wilburys&album=
+
Cheers George

Thanks for that; I will peruse this site.  I did not know it existed.

I agree that colouring or softening everything because of a few bad recordings would not be a good idea.  However, that is not my plan.  If things work out as I hope, I would listen almost all the time to the pure, unadulterated, and excellent sound of the CD player.  If I find an album uncomfortably bright, I would toggle the "source/tape" switch to "tape".  The signal would then travel through the buffer, which hopefully would make the sound more pleasant.
I have seen that many people really like the sound quality that valves produce.  This idea gives me the option to go from good quality ss sound to some kind of valve sound, and back, with the flick of a switch. 

As I would have the option to return the buffer if I don't like what it contributes, and as it is relatively inexpensive, trying it out seems like a low risk strategy.  I was a bit uncertain about the technical aspect of it, hence my original post.

...just another version/variant of eq.....*shrug*

Season to Taste....;)

The same reason condiments are on restaurant tables.....
...except, Of Course, the 'fancy ones' that expect one to eat what, as served...

I like hash browns with mustard vs. ketchup...catsup...tomato sauce, to be Precise....but, I'm just weird my way....*S*

Maybe instead of the buffer, you should try a Schiit Audio Loki. A friend put one between his Jolida cd player and Rogue RP-5 tube preamp. Now it is possible to tolerate listening to the Stones Let it Bleed album.

+1 for the Loki

I had a look at this.  Wow, tone controls! I remember those.
Looks like a very good idea, thanks.  Instead of adding one item, which would add one kind of colouration to the sound, I would get something much more versatile, and much cheaper.
I could still use the tape loop, and bypass it altogether when not in use.

yeah, it's very versatile. maybe unfortunate from a purist's perspective but there is so much great music whose recording/mastering job might disagree with one's system. i personally prefer having a way to tweak and color as needed, but (equally important, imho) it's also totally inaudible when flat on my setup.

I agree; good to have the option, especially at such a low price.  Unfortunately out of stock in the UK, and a 6-8 week lead time if I were to order from the US

I got a Yaqin SD-CD3 tube buffer and I use it in my tape loop with no problems. I have a Krell KRC-2 pre and and KSA 300S amp running Thiel CS6 speakers. I got this thing because it was a cheap way to see if inserting tubes in the signal path would have any benefit. It turns out that I like what it does and I use it most of the time. It adds a little sparkle and depth but is quite subtle. It doesn't darken the sound or add any sort of veil.

I ordered new tubes (Mullard design new production) to see what difference a different set of tubes will make. I used to have a recording studio with several tube mic preamps and I was surprised how much difference a different set of tubes could have in those units.

My philosophy is that assembling your audio system is a project in managing distortion. All kinds of distortion is added in the recording chain and each subsequent step in the playback chain has its own issues. If a tube buffer adds some second and fourth harmonics and that is pleasant then so be it.

The tube buffer is a completely different thing than a tone control. The buffer doesn't alter the frequency balance as far as I can tell. It just makes the instruments a little more focused in the soundstage and it makes instruments like acoustic guitar sound a little more like what we think an acoustic guitar should should sound like (more sparkle if that makes sense).

On a side note, my experience with the Yaqin was so positive that I have ordered a Black Ice tube DAC. This unit won a shootout in Arizona against some other well regarded DACs and I suspect that the Fosgate designed tube output stage adds a touch of pleasant harmonics. I have a PSA PerfectWave II DAC and transport that sounds really good but for 800 bucks I decided to try the Black Ice. We'll see what happens.

Thanks, that's very interesting.
I e-mailed Shiit UK, who told me that after all, they have these units in stock.  I think I'll start off by ordering one of those, and keep the tube buffer in mind for the future.
At present, Amazon UK shows the Yaqin to be "currently unavailable"

The "danger" involving tape monitoring is in setting the monitor position in such a way as to create a feedback loop.  You cannot do that if you correctly route the signal from out>in, out>in, and your preamp doesn't have Tape In on its selector switch as well as a monitor button.  My CJ PV11 does, so I hve to be careful to avoid selecting Monitor 1 and Tape 1 at the same time...that would be a feedback loop!  I use my Schiit Loki+ in the Tape 2 Monitor loop, and have my DAC plugged into Tape 1, so that works.

Thanks, that explains it very clearly.  My Bryston pre-amp does not have a "tape in", so provided I route the cables correctly I should be safe.

paleo12 OP

Another +1 for the Loki to fix tonal balances with, as I did here with this setup a couple of years ago.
 https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/new-preamp-arrived/post?highlight=loki&postid=1819182#181...

Cheers George

Something else to look into is an old product by the name of "TDS Passive Audiophile".

They retailed 20 years ago in the $400-$500 range and there was a much less expensive unit (claiming to use the same tech) that came out later on...

https://www.musicdirect.com/accessories/ar-acoustic-research-tds-enhancer

I tried them with both SS and DH/SET setups for late night listening @ lower than usual volume levels, and liked them.

I still have the more expensive version around here somewhere (gave the cheaper version away).

Both were sonically similar to one another.

DeKay