Larry,as my son is starting his medical internship at George Washington Hosp/Med center,this June,and I will be visiting from time to time,so don't be so quick with the invites.Some of us fanatics may take your offer up!
Also,I checked out the Klipsh thread,about your upgrade process.Quite interesting.BTW,what polish/wax do you use for the finish?
I remember when I was in college,and working each summer as a letter carrier in NYC,I would walk into the better audio stores of the day,and was floored by the sheer mass that the Klipshorns presented.Of course I could not consider them at the time.One day I had a route that allowed me to deliver mail to Lyric Hi Fi.I remember being very impressed by the wonderful "new to me" stuff being sold there.Mike Kay was SO nice to this, then "young" and enamored college kid, that I never forgot his kindness,and the time he spent introducing me to quality audio products.Even though he knew I could not possibly purchase anything.A class act!!
BTW,I notice on the Klipsh site that many folks list ownership of Cornwalls,Hersheys(?) and others.Do people own multiple Klipshorns.Like the multi cartridge crowd?Whew!!Also would the addition of a superb super tweeter,like the Townshend or Murata,be an improvement?I've heard these can further some horn designs.I did hear the Townshends on a pair of wonderful Sonus Faber Extremas(WAY underrated speaker,with these tweets,btw)and they were superb.Totally seamless!
As to the Orpheus,though I love the quick comments from you,it would best serve us all if you waited about two more weeks before making definitive statements regarding performance.I guarantee you will find subtle changes will occur,and you will most likely revoice the arm/table accordingly.You'll then have a better handle on "things sonic"!Man,you are a lucky guy.God only knows when my set-up will be back,up and running.I sent out stuff,for mods and service and am beginning to wonder if I did the right thing(I know I did,but am running out of patience).In the meantime I must admit to be getting about 120 mph on my serve,literally,so I'm putting the time to a good cause.Yet,I'd rather be listening to my new music acquisitions,as of now.
Best of luck! |
Let's see if I can answer some of your questions, plus I have another: I sent e-mails to you and Roy, and got bounce-backs. Any idea why?
I'll be glad to come back in 2 weeks with further comments, but was concerned the thread would die from disuse if much time went by. Besides, the elements of my comments are very unlikely to change (or I hope not), so I saw no reason to hold back. I also sensed that the sound blossomed out over the 4 days, but have hearing in only one ear and thus can't pick up on soundstage subtleties.
I use Formby's lemon oil. I used Murphy's wood soap one time and was chagrined to find it darkened the darker part of the grain, a loss in the way it appears to shift with the light. It's mostly come back, but I decided to stick with lemon oil and not experiment from that point on.
While a few have multiple K-horns, it's more common to have 2 or more systems in the house, sometimes with different sized Klipsch speakers from system to system. Some also experiment with different tweeters and midrange horns, and different crossovers. I don't recall either the Townshend nor the Murata being mentioned on the forum. It almost seems that you and the others here move in a different world, component- and mod-wise from the Klipsch forum guys.
I'm pretty conservative, have not gone for mods except (1) Basis factory mods to the Ovation and (2) mods to the Wadia units by Steve Huntley of Great Northern Sound, who used to have a responsible position at Wadia and did factory-authorized work for them after leaving. I would be very leery of modding any of my electronics. I did try a new tweeter made for Klipsch products, but was one of a small number who found it had too many disadvantages.
Anyway, I don't think the essence of what I reported will change except for the better, so I'm comfy with reporting now. |
Hey guys.
I'm one of those Klipsch Forum fanatics and I own Klipschorns (1976), Cornwalls (1980 - original owner), and I recently sold my '72 Heresys. Those are just the ones worth mentioning. Most of the folks on the forum with multiple pairs use them in a HT environment, but many have 2 or more 2-channel systems like myself.
I heard Larry's Orpheus Monday when it was still breaking in and all I can say is WOW! I own the Temper "W" and have been listening to Larry's "V" for a couple years now (which is why I now own a similiar Basis/Vector/Temper combo).
Even with just a few hours of break-in, the Orpheus sounded fantastic as Larry described. I don't know what I can add that he didn't already cover. What suprised me the most was the improvement in the bass. It really tightened up and it digs as low as I've ever heard on his system. The mids and highs were amazing as expected.
If Larry decides to give you guys a demo, you'll probably see my arse parked on one of his living room chairs!
BTW - I've never heard a system that does classical music better than Larry's. |
Larry,I was not hinting at you needing to mod,or go to a super tweet.Just asking if you were familiar with it.A friend had mentioned that he knew of two horn based set-ups that added the Townshend,and it greatly helped.Not that it is a necessity,in a rig like yours.Sorry,if you felt I was insinuating a mod in a system I've not heard.I don't do stuff like that.
BTW,Steve Huntley completely re-built my pre/phono(Audio Research SP-15)and it is definitely world class.Cost me big bucks to do,but really worth it!
I've already laid the groundwork for one of my audio "best friends",who now owns a Temper-v,to upgrade to the Orpheus in early fall.God I'm so cruelly cunning sometimes,but when it comes to "things audio" I can't control myself!
Best!
Best! |
Sr.,
Oops, I didn't think you were "insinuating." I do think I see bandwagons at times. Like a recent tweeter replacement for the K-horn/La Scala/Belle K-77 tweeters, which most liked but I and a very few others tried and thought didn't musically blend with the rest of the speaker. Most thought it was a big improvement, over Beyma tweeters (a previous favorite) as well as the K-77 for example, and which also has been thought to be better than the K-77.
In the mid-range, one forum member has developed a Tracterix mid-horn he calls the Trachorn, and which again many on the forum think is a better mid horn (the standard mid driver apparently passes muster). Based on my tweeter experience, I tend to suspect that such items developed outside the historic and current Klipsch factory and research center may have more clarity but also may have less thorough working-out and musicality than I think is traditionally Klipsch. I don't know, of course, but that's my real answer -- and I gotta be shown otherwise.
Yep, Steve is really outstanding, has great judgement IMO and really tells it like it is.
I'm on the lookout for further changes in the Orpheus sound. I expect the highs broadly speaking will smooth down further, though they certainly aren't bad now, and perhaps detail will become finer -- I'll try to assess and let you know.
Congrats on your son's fortunate and hard-working success. I take it he's entering a residency (specialty training after medical school)? Good for him and you --
Larry |
Larry,I seem to get the impression that the older(circa 1962,like yours)Klipshorns are the most desireable.Is this so,and why?Just my curiosity.Surely they must be great.
Also,if you've been following the analog threads for the last year and a half you will have noticed some superb correspondence regarding some of the finest "small transducers" around.NOT speakers,but cartridges,which can have a HUGE impact on an already high resolution system!
Sorry ZYX UNIV folks(you know who you are) -:)
There may be a new kid on the block,in the Orpheus,and due to my financial equity in the Temper,I simply have to find an excuse to love the Orpheus!!
What say YE, O' exalted UNIV crowd? -:)
Larry,thanks for the complimentary reference to my wonderful son.Sadly,he is given to trying,STILL,to get a rise out of his mom,so he's leaning on work with infectious disease!!Why can't he just be a dermatologist,or something like that,I say!He won't have any of it!
Best! |
Actually, K-horns were made to exactly the same dimensions over their 55 (so far) year life, and the major evolution of the drivers and horns seems to have stabilized by the later '60's, so that the real differences seem to have become (1) the successive crossover models and (2) the tendency of Xover capacitors to deteriorate as they age. Any crossover over 20 yrs. old needs to have its caps "freshened" i.e., replaced, and I have heard one rather bad-sounding pair that needed it (sounded great afterward). There are a number of folks on the forum who either make a newer design of xovers, or keep the design the same but replace the caps and maybe a few other things. So I wouldn't expect even a 70's, let alone a 60's K-horn to sound up to snuff without that being done.
And, from what I've seen on the forum, it's very rare for a 60's vintage to show up without scratches, water marks, peeled-off veneer, grill cloth in shreds, and the like. Mine are in very fortunate shape.
No, I am actually not familiar with analog threads -- do you mean on Audiogon? I'm not even sure how to get there. But, this has been a very civilized, knowledge-ridden experience, and I'm grateful. Anyway, I have ALWAYS believed that the sound sources are critical, and none more so than cartridge transducers. So far, I think the Orpheus is in a very high class -- higher than any other I've heard, anyway.
Yeah, yeah, dermatology...my father thought that dentistry was ideal, so I know your son's feelings about that so-so prestige/regular-hours bit!
I'll try to find the Audiogon analog forums --
Many thanks,
Larry |
Kha,
Can you give us more detailed and up to date thoughts on how the Orpheus compares to the Zyx Universe.
Thanks,
Andrew |
Larry,
Reb1208 speculated that the Orpheous offers a different sound. That sound would probably go in the direction of more speed and less warmth/bloom than the Temper V/W.
Have you found this to be true with the Orpheus?
gdpowers_7@hotmail.com,
What was your impression of the warmth/bloom differences between your Temper W and Larry's Orpheus?
Andrew |
A further update from my friend who has an Orpheus. Note that he has superb ears and I value his judgement. The comments are somewhat general but, he certainly gets his message across.
"I was not expecting this kind of improvement at all with the Orpheus, since the Temper V is so good, but it kicks the V's ass and doesn't look back. Might be the best all around cartridge I have ever heard...at any price. There are Koetsu lovers out there who will still stick by their $10K+ carts, but I don't even know about that. This thing is amazing." |
Sorry for not coming back earlier. BTW you need to remove the antispam “outthisbit” part of my email address to send an email.
To put my comments in perspective I should say that I have been using a Colibri for the last 2 years or so and to be honest it was only my itchiness for change that set me looking elsewhere. The Colibri has not really put a foot wrong other than the occasional bad tracking.
I did manage to try out an Orpheus and I must say that it’s a great performer but being a row D type of person I was never totally satisfied with it although I have a feeling it may be one of those cartridges that would have gradually won me over.
With the itchy feeling for change persisting I then tried out the Decca London Reference for a week and I now own one. This cartridge was not easy to live with straight out of the box though, it was totally different to the demonstraightor, very hard sounding, with no finesse. I was beginning to think that I would be going back to the Colibri but I persisted with the run-in process. Now that it has about 30 hours on it the sound has just started to change, almost overnight, so may be it will stay but I think it needs another 50 hours or so before I will know for sure. But…. the Colibri is very special. |
Hey TUBES 108,"Shaddup"!!I was just beginning to begin my state of "audio satisfaction",without feeling the need to start to really consider pondering something new.I have a very nice Temper-v.I LIKE THAT STATE OF MIND!Now you have put a dent in my summer vacation plans,as I'll have to begin to start an "Orpheus fund".
Thanks for nothing!! -:) |
Andrew,
It's difficult for me to answer that type of question without hearing the Orpheus on MY system compared to my Temper W. I wouldn't call Larry's system all that warm to begin with. It's a very detailed system that excels with classical music, which IMO is no simple task. Also, we're talking about horns here.
That said, I didn't find the Orpheus to be much different than the Temper in the warmth category. It's slightly more detailed, digs a bit deeper and seem to have a blacker background with a bit more transparency. I really don't think it's a night and day difference as described above. It seems to do everything the Temper did, just a little better. There's also the issue regarding Larry's "V" which certainly sounded better six months ago than it did when he traded it in.
From what I've heard so far, I believe the Temper and the Orpheus are very similiar. Is the Orpeus worth the difference in price? It certainly was for Larry. I'm not so sure I'd feel the same way on my system playing old jazz LPs 90% of the time.
- Gary |
sirspeedy. i have heard the temper v in my system for a short time and it is one fine cartridge. you know at some point in time, no matter how gd a piece of gear is, something will come along that betters what you have. i have not heard the Orpheus, and no doubt it beats the v, but...i am sure i could live with the v for a long time, regardless. though i bet my friend would be pleased that his quote has lead you to start an Orpheus fund. such is life in this hobby. |
Gary,WHEW!!Thanks! -:)
Best! |
Tubes108,
What particular cartidge came along your way that bettered the Tmper V?
Gary,
Thanks for your additonal comments. This helps to put things in better perspective, perhaps.
All,
I'm particulary interested in knowing how the Temper or Orpheus compares to Zyx's ...the Airy 3 or Universe.
Andrew |
The preceeding comments sound hauntingly parallel to those of the ZYX contingent just as the UNIverse was making its debut. Up til then, they gushed about the Airy 3 as the ultimate ZYX offering. BTW, didn't I read somewhere about an 'improved' UNIverse in the works?
If only our hearing improved along with our audio equipment! As it is, I have to keep upgrading just to hear into the music as well as I did 10 years ago with less sophisticated gear. |
Nsgarsh,The comments made here,about the Orpheus are really NOT like the ZYX UNIV crowds'"never ending story"!Here we have a new,and interesting design that would obviously peak interest.Of course the Transfiguration "W" or "V" are superb,yet it's human nature to "scope out" new stuff,from mfgrs we like.In reality I have no intention of replacing my "V" until I'm satisfied that I've gotten my money's worth,by making sure I have a good amount of hours on it(which I don't).Regardless of how good the newer model is.Which I am ultimately interested in,and have a friend already "sold" on it(by "sneaky me").He will get it in September.I'll know,then,how much better than the "V" it performs,as he has almost the same system as me(except some cabling and speakers).
What the "UNIV" crowd had done(not that there is anything wrong here)was to extend,for over a year, the impression that it had almost NO competition,in their opinion,and followed it up with the continual mention(free adv here)of the "importer/seller's" name.The importer got a good amount of free press.Also,if you look at the website for ZYX,you will see the "rediculous" false list price,followed by the discounted price(which should actually be the stated price,ONLY).
This all came to pass once Mike Lavigne was nice enough to write a lengthly comparison of the UNIV vs "the world"(sort of).I loved his lengthly impressions!
BTW-I have heard the UNIV,and it is SUPERB,but I never felt it was heads above the potential competition.Even not hearing everything,as it was simple common sense to assume there were too many other fine choices.ALL VIABLE CONTENDERS!!
So here,we have some good press for the Orpheus,and some typical high marks for it,by enthusiastic owners/listeners,but I do not get the impression that this is anything other than "something new".For now!!I doubt we'll hear much about it a month from now.The more than a year long UNIV enthusiasm,though seemingly well deserved, would have carried more weight,to me,if there was not the constant mention of the "seller's" name,and the "seller/importer" should change the stupid,fake list price to reflect the "real" selling price.BTW-please no venom,I'm just "talking the hobby".We could ALL benefit from more directness,by hobbyists who are not so protective of their favorite "guys",and those "guys" allowing some hobbyists' emotion to surface,without losing their composure!Please!!
Of course there are some who simply have to have the last word!I'd be pleasantly surprised if this didn't happen.
BTW #2--After hearing a load of fine stuff at the VTV show,I stumbled(on Saturday)into a "little unassuming" room that has really/seriously impacted my "almost adv driven" (I'm influenced too,from time to time,though I do try to fight it)mentality.Nsgarsh,you and I have fairly big set-ups.Check this out---
I had spent the entire first half of Saturday listening to some fine SET and more complex/powerful tube based systems,with some quite nice solid state stuff thrown in,for good measure.I like both solid state,or tubes.Based upon the success of the overall system's "presentation".There were quite a few fine sounding,and interesting set-ups on display.I had a chance to audition(A/B) the Myabi Ivory against the XV1-s,in the same system.With two identical arms(DaVinci).The preamp was the Japanese Audionote megabucker,with Tron tube amps(and a prototype "somethings")driving hybrid Horning "big boys".INTERESTING!!The Myabi sounding more Koetsu like(romantic),with the Dynavector sounding more neutral and dynamic.Yet it was a stretch to declare a winner.Simply a matter of system voicing,and taste.I liked the XV-1s,but that's just me.Yet the little Allaerts,fronting a nice sounding alternative system,that was on display,clearly led me to believe that Raul is not crazy when he states how good these are.Superb timbres!Hard to do!
Now to the "little room", and surprise I stumbled upon,after hearing all the big stuff(megahorns/mega dynamic driver stuff/mega dipoles,mega prices,and "my own" stuff ain't cheap, etc).I was about to leave the show,and was aware of this sign(on the room's door) saying "back after 3:00".The room was basically closed all day,as the show was ending at 3:45.So I was lucky enough to have a "short window" to hear something so simple/special/logical/and OLD,that I am still thinking about how I will approach "home listening and system set-up" in the future.Sorry for the supposed sensationalizing.Which it is not!!Well, maybe a little,but it deserves this.
In this tiny "unofficial" room,like a character from a good novelette,was one of the nicest,most direct,and interesting fellows I have ever met,in this hobby.I simply "knew, without really knowing" that he had to also know my friend Sid(a classic person,in his own right).He did!
As I looked around a couple of other "lucky" showgoers stumbled in,as well.THEY NEVER LEFT!Actually, almost every guy,to the man,had almost the exact same reaction!It was SCARY!I heard "this is the most toe tapping room here".Or "this is simply amazing".Or " what is the front end/ source playing this stuff".Or,"I didn't even know you could do this,with that device".Even "where is the subwoofer"?Alot more compliments,but the point is that I heard a TINY pair of monitors,which this guy(Charles King) had said were Rogers LS3/5a clones,sitting atop two little inexpensive mini stools(sourced from somewhere like IKEA,hooked up with "el-cheapo" cabling(all other rooms had expensive stuff),and being driven with a twelve watt Dyna amp(circa 1970).The front ends were a Dyna tuner(Blew me away,playing classical opera),and two tape decks.One I had owned years ago.This was the Classic Tandberg unit,which he did not play!
The tape recorder he did play(and BOY is this thing jewel like,and Rolex gorgeous)was a rebuilt 1970 Stelovox unit.Playing 15.5 ips little tapes.The unit is really small,and you play a tape and reload,about every few minutes.There was a coffee table quality "art book" sitting on the chair,that he had obviously contributed to,which was all about these MAGNIFICENT Stelovox tape recorders.Think Leica,here!I told him he had better put it away,or fear someone walking out with it.Don't think the thought did not cross my mind.Though I'd never do that!Maybe Albert Porter has knowledge of these CLASSIC tape decks(what an incredible front end "music delivery system",these little jewels are).
This fellow was there to give a seminar on the history of tape recording,and he refurbishes the Stellovox units to the few "lucky" fans of this "classic" device.Apparently there are quite a few hobbyists that pick these up,and KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THEM!Too bad I'm such a moron!I have basically shot my monetary load,for this year,with my most recent audio mods/expenditures.A couple of "thou" already this year,and I'll have to reload for next year.I pace myself,in my old age.
Sonically,everything was placed on "Crapola" hotel tables,for audiophile grade support -:),what we all heard was UNBELIEVABLE presence,naturalness,and huge,really HUGE stage size and depth(haunting actually,and I was not the only person stating this),followed by rediculously good "seemingly full range sound".I'd have to suspect it actually got down to about fifty hz.Yet WHAT a FIFTY hz!!!--CLEAN!!!--Like I seldom hear this level of CLEAN!---ANYWHERE!!---He also played some acoustic jazz.Having heard the same thing three weeks earlier on my friend Sid's huge,yet great set-up,I was shocked at how tuneful,pitch perfect and BIG,these little "baby shrimp" speakers could do this.I'm talking real power.I thought my Avalons were good at depth and stage.--HA!!--Don't believe me!I don't care!I pinched myself,and know it was NOT a dream!!
The little two way "clone" speakers were out about four feet into a small hotel room.When we switched to the Dyna tuner(remember circa 1970,but everything was rebuilt,and modded, and the "guy" knows what he's doing)to hear some opera,live btw,the harpsichord sounded SO real and the singer's voice so filled with beauty and natural texture that I decided to go back to the two or three other really good sounding rooms,for a comparison.Remember,the other rooms had very expensive stuff,and some were getting very good sound,for a show!It was a small show so there was not alot of external noise.It was as though I had NEVER really been to those rooms an hour earlier.Now they sounded,"well, err", flat out BAD!I had thought they were great,just a little time earlier,but I was now a "new" listener.For life!!It happened "that fast"!!Whew!!--I'm now thinking "Twilight Zone",and am beginning to get scared,and worried.I asked someone if they could actually see me.Just to confirm I hadn't died.Thank goodness they acknowledged my existence!!I tried to walk through a wall,and hurt my shoulder,but was glad to still be amongst the living,and listening!
NO CONTEST!!! COMPARED TO THOSE PREVIOUSLY GREAT SOUNDING ROOMS!!--I went back to the little "unofficial" room,again.Selling no equipment for the consumer.Just a set-up for the sake of demoing some tapes,on this no longer made tape machine.Nothing really special.--JUST FRIGGIN GREAT!!
This guy,Charles King,after hearing all the accolades coming his way from some "lucky to be in his room" showgoers,and most were actually exhibitors,taking a break(that told me something,there),had said to me "it's really amazing how little money you really have to spend,once you know what you are doing"!Now I have met another "classic music lover/treasure",to go along with Sid Marks!This is the kind of stuff that keeps the hobby fresh,to me.Yes,I do admit I'm not all there.My wife reminds me of this often.
Well after having recently heard the now famous,BIG BUCK, Nola Grand Ref system.Driven by all the stuff we hear/read about(ASR Emitter etc),with superb playing material,I do have to admit that if I was strong enough to actually listen to my heart,rather than my brain(which is not too big)and if I could have either of these systems,my choice would be the GREAT Mr King's "upstairs set-up".
He stated this was his secondary system,and was beginning to tell me what he used for "serious listening",when he was told to close up the "treasure chest",I mean room,and give his seminar.He never returned,and I had to go home.So I'll never know!
How much fun can this hobby be,when you are really open to new experiences,and don't have frozen conceptions of what is good?
Sorry for the lengthly rant(and please excuse me if some comments seemed condescending),but my system has been down for about three months now.Maybe I'm actually better off!
Best! |
Hi Andrew,
I own the latest Benz LP, like it, and am not looking to replace it. It has NOT been in my system for a while. I am somewhat lazy when it comes to installing cartridges, so I wait to replace my Basis Vector with the latest Vector III before I re-install the Benz.
Currently I am using an old Audioquest 7000. I've always liked it; it has a lovely midrange and is dynamic (both micro & macro). Yet, there are many cartridges that better it including the 2 that I've owned since I purchased the Audioquest. Still, the 7000 plays musically.
A friend has a Temper V on a Vector arm. It was simple to place his arm on my 'table which enabled a short-term intro to this fine cartridge. |
Tubes108,
Thanks for your feedback. I've heard that the upper end benz's sound pretty good.
Andrew |
Didn' know this thread had reawakened -- it's too hard to accurately convey what someone else will hear and how they'll react, to write this with certainty. My Orpheus still has only 25 hrs. on it, and I don't think it's fully come into its own.
I think the difference between it and my former V (at its best) is greater than Gary describes. Most striking to me has been how much quieter the background seems, with better emergence of low-level detail and more separation of musical notes from the surrounding silence. The bass is also better, clearer, more detailed.
Bloom: if that means a sense of dimensionality, it's been my sense that it's pretty good, lots of space around the notes (which I think I can hear even with hearing in only one ear -- it helps with hearing the music).
Warmth: I'm not clear on what that means -- if a fuller lower middle range, no, I don't think it has more of that than the Tempers. If it means instrumental sweetness, well, so far it sounds a bit clinical to me. However, I do feel that may correct with more time.
I'm with Tubes108 that the Temper V (and W) are very fine cartridges and don't need changing out for great, great satisfaction. I'll come back on after I get 40-60 hours on it with any different opinion. It clearly changes (e.g., reduced brightness) with break-in, and that hasn't stopped as yet. |
Larry,though I do love your comments,the fact that your original Temper-v was bought used,and then began to degrade(I had a Temper that was still going strong for 8 yrs,before I upgraded to the "V")kind of dulls down the comparison.I mean this with all due respect,and have NO doubt the newer model(Orpheus) is better,as you hear it!
Transfigurations of the past have all been better in each new generation.My friends have owned about three or four different vintages,and that was the case,so I'm sure the Orpheus is the best of the lot!
In any event,I'm really happy that you are getting such satisfaction from yours,but remember that your "V" was not a fair comparison!
Best! |
Although I've tried to make that clear from the beginning, it is worth repeating. To be continued. |
I'm going to attempt the endurance record with my V. Till the "tip" do us part. |
Larry,I may have some "egg dripping down my face",as of this morning!!To be specific,I was awaiting my wife and daughter,who were shopping.I was in a bookstore,waiting for them when I began to read some of the British audio mags.
Well,it appears that the Orpheus has gotten a big headstart in merry old England!It was NOT formally reviewed,but WAS mentioned quite a bit,in some general discussions,revolving around some superb equipment.
One was a review of the NEW SME 20/12 table(I think that is the designation)which has the new 12 inch SME arm.The Orpheus was also mentioned,in a very favorable light,in other areas of discussion.
It appears that this will get a superb amount of good press.The overall impression I got,was very similar to your "obviously accurate" comments!
So,regardless of the "newness" of your now defunct Temper-v,you seem to be "on the money" with your Orpheus comments!!
Maybe some day,when I finally get my amp back(like in a month,if I'm lucky)I will actually be able to hear some TRANNY music again.It might not be an Orpheus,but GOD do I want to hear my record collection,again!!!
Three months without my little late night private listening sessions,really SUCKS!!
I WANT MY MUSIC AGAIN!!!!
Best! |
Glad to hear it, very interesting -- do you recall what Brit pub, and is a link available? I've been too busy to give my cart much more time in the last week. It seems to react rather critically to alignment, and I'm heading toward absolutely level, not tail up or down. Surprisingly (to me anyway), record scratch seems to be a little more noticeable at tail down.
I really sympathize no vinyl. I may have a different problem -- the CD player quality was pretty even with LPs until I got the Orpheus. Now I'm hearing better low-level detail from my LPs, and am having to deal with whether there's something I can or should do about that. That does support the lower-noise impression that I have. Stay tuned; now, I've got travels coming up and won't finish breaking in the cart until late June.
Again, thanks -- |
Maybe the egg is on MY face. I suppose I should leave the review to the person actually living with the equipment. I listen to Larry's system approximately once a week and he is obviously still tweaking. I know that I've yet to hear the best the Orpheus has to offer. Of course there's also the break-in issue. I still stand by my comments however. That was my honest opinion at the time.
Larry - At some point you're just going to have to live with the reality that your CD player will never quite catch up. Either that or you'll go broke trying to find a way to make them equal. As you know, I all but stopped listening to CDs/SACDs once I bought my Basis/Temper. Most of my funds now go to vinyl. Expensive vinyl. I think I spent over $500 this past month on about 20 records.
Speedy - I feel your pain. I had my pre in for service last year and went about 4 weeks without vinyl. I wasn't much fun to be around. It's like losing your best friend. |
Larry,Hi Fi News and Record Review!
Also,if your CD sound was equal to your analog,before the Orpheus,than maybe I do not have egg dripping down my face -:)The Temper-V should have "smoked" a digital system(regardless of vintage,and I have a good one too)in areas of detail, and information retreival,ease,stage,etc.HMM! -:)
Best! And I do look forward to your future comments,but be careful because I don't want to irritate the ZYX crowd with too much Orpheus info,at my behest! -:)Just kidding!
BTW--If things go my way,and as the Orpheus is still big bucks to update from a Temper,I'm seriously thinking about jumping ship,and moving to one of the two top Allaerts models,next year.
I had ten years with different Koetsus,and now ten years with the Transfiguration vintages.I'm beginning to suspect that my loyalties don't go much beyond a decade,with small transducers.Of course I also suspect Raul may think I could go longer with an Allaerts,as I have a superb low noise,high gain phono section!
Time will tell! |
Gary - Your comments are indeed honest as always, but note that your two comments above differed in tenor. I agree with both to some extent.
Gary and Sirspeedy - I've got too much good music on my CDs not to at least think about making sure whether I can or cannot make the CD player closer to the LP player.
Sirspeedy -- Steve Huntley has brought many otherwise ordinary CD players, including mine, much closer to analog. We'll see. |
All,
The Orpheus was also reviewed in a German mag called Image HiFi. Bob Clark of Profundo, the US Distributor, plans to translate the review and make it available.
Andrew |
Just a note about output with Transfiguration products: they use the JVC test record. Most other manufacturers use the CBS test record which gives values 1.6x the "JVC" values. In addition, most phono preamp gain specs are tied to outputs based on the CBS values.
So to make a fair comparison with (most) other cartridges, and also to determine what kind of gain will be required from the phono preamp, it's necessary to convert the JVC derived values to the CBS value.
.
For instance the Orpheus is rated a 0.48mV output, but if it had been spec'd using the CBS record, the output would actually be 0.77mV -- fairly healthy by most MC standards. |
I have had the chance to hear the Orpheus in a friend's system. It is in that system on extensive "trial" (we are all friends of a dealer), and if I weren't so lazy, I could also install it in my system for a trial. In my friends system, where it replaced a Lyra Helikon, I thought the Orpheus sounded terrific. It actually sounded more lively than the Helikon (though the Helikon has quite a few hours on it so that might be an issue), while having the great tonal balance typical of Transfiguration cartridges.
Once I get my own system sorted out (just replaced my linestage/phono), I will give it a spin. |
I have recently acquired the Transfiguration Orpheus. If so desired, I can give detailed comparisons to previously owned cartridges such as van den Hul Condor, Lyra Titan, Koetsu Urishi and Ortofon Jubilee. Please let me know. banpuku@yahoo.com |
I would be very interested in reading your comparisons. I have an Orpheus, but haven't compared it with others like you have. I used to have a Transfig Temper V, which I think was a very fine cartridge whose detailing was not quite as good, perhaps because it seemed to have a higher background noise level. Thanks,
Larry |
Just wanted to put in my two cents,after a long break.I now have very good experience with this design,in my own set-up.I hope I can put a little different spin on things,though it's still an enthusuastic review,of sorts.I believe I may have to "eat some crow",as I am beginning to really get a handle on why I had been a touch uncomfortable listening to some of my orchestral discs,as compared to how these exact lp's sound at some friends' homes.Piccolos anyone?
Firstly everything I state is just my dumb opinion,and taste,in my OWN set-up.I still have lots to learn,and have no problems admitting it,but I am quite surprised in that something I have always known keeps getting reinforced.That is every time I improve on the weaknesses in my system(I really was thinking I had just about abolished them all,..almost),something else either pops up,or comes into the picture more-so than before.This is a little frustrating,but definitely part of the "high end".Should one care to stay abreast of "high res" sound.
MY previous Temper-V was a fabulous cartridge.Yet I was constantly toying with the different voicing parameters of my tonearm(2.2),to get the most out of different discs.I was really good at changing the overall character to match some lp's.Not all though.
I LOVE dramatic and ecclectic modern classical stuff,from the likes of Elliot Carter to Jacob Druckman or John Cage.Many other modernists,but I still listen alot to standard Classical and Jazz etc.
I believe(in my case)that one reason why I was so prompted to move towards modernistic classical/ecclectic stuff is because there are very many "short duration bursts of energy" in many compositions,which though I liked it,and found it quite dramatic,it was far easier for my arm/cartridge to navigate without resonance kreeping in.Those dramatic durations of musical energy did not seem to last long enough for any reticent flavor to occur...I got used to it,and liked it!..My friend Sid(who previuosly had the Air Tangent)did orchestral fare with a bloomier voice.Not tube vs solid state bloom.Resonant characteristics were at play here,and the more experience I got,the more I began to realize this.It took my getting an Orpheus,in my own setup to awaken,finally.It is quite revealing,and that is a huge understatement!
The high pressure constants of typical classical orchestral fare,especially long crescendos,on some discs, bothered me(when running my Temper-V),in my own rig at times!Especially when comparing the exact discs at my friend's who had a fabulous linear tracking arm(the GREAT Air Tangent).I knew his set-up exactly as well as my own.
Then one other friend who has a very similar system as myself,also Temper-V fronted,moved to the Orpheus(which I set up on his 2.2,and heard an immediate improvement)and then to a Phantom.He later got Magico Minis but I knew his overall presentation very well.
So,back to me(sorry if I am getting boring)....the Orpheus is everything(everything really good)that previous owners have stated.It does not blow away the Temper-V,but surely is a class above.Does "everything" better!!Not "new" news!!...This on my 2.2,which I am(here's where I have to be honest with myself)currently using.
What I DO love (here is where I really needed to hear it in my own system)is how it "expands and contracts" on those short duration bursts of energy,encoded on my favorite modernistic lp's.I never had this kind of "scare factor" with my previous "three" different Temper series designs.Compared to the Tempers I had this expansion would be like blowing up a balloon and decompressing,very quickly.The Orpheus(if one can imagine)expands far faster,and "gets bigger".Then it decompresses to "nothingness",like lightning!Compared to what I was using before.
So far so good,but.....though the orchestral music I play is far better reproduced than before,I am beginning to see how I may have been rationalizing(hey,I couldn't hear it as much as now)the slight reticence that was reproduced "along with the music",on my 2.2!A very slight resonant quality that seemed to add a "life" of it's own to much of my modern lp's,and steal away some harmonic warmth.It made me think I was getting more detail,but it was false!Yet,it was exactly that bloomy sensation my linear arm friend got SO right that I lusted for(he has a Titan, btw),and now my friend who moved away from the 2.2,also gets this tonality almost as well.I say almost,because you cannot believe how good that Air Tangent was!!I still think the 2.2 is a fabulous product,but with the apparent new wave of cartridges pushing the envelope,it may not match some of these designs in terms of being sure you have gotten everything from them...Good rationalization?..Satisfies me!
So just having listened for about four hours,and loving my new "O" sound,I think I have to give up on my never ending fotzing around routine,with my current arm.
I believe that if I am to get the max out of my new cartridge,it will need some additional help.
The cartridge is THAT good.Apparently it has exposed an area of weakness I thought I had a handle on.
I WAS WRONG AGAIN!......So why am I so happy???
BTW,really sory for the long rant,I am working on that sort of thing. |
I just got the Orpheus, and I run it in the Triplanar Mk7. Its anything but tweaky, but very, very nice. |
