cascadesphil
Thank You for the detailed follow up. This is a killer spinner spec-wise.
Happy Listening!
Thank You for the detailed follow up. This is a killer spinner spec-wise.
Happy Listening!
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,687 responses Add your response
No DVD-A or SACD playback with the UB-9000 (pretty much just CD, DVD-V, Blu-Ray and UHD Blu-Ray). It will, however, play up to quad DSD files. For me, it's not an issue as I don't play discs. I have disc spinners in every system (in some, multiple ones) that have been rotated from old systems. Pretty much the only time these get used is if someone brings a music disc over once a year (if that) or a movie is played. The UB-9000 also has a bunch of playback settings. Those include six types of digital output tube settings (to make the unit sound a bit different on each different simulated setting). The unit is also built like a tank. I have not followed recent developments about the unit and the only other caveat I'd offer is that it doesn't have a dedicated app (unless they have come out with one in recent times) like the Oppo players did. That means one needs to navigate through files via a display with some exceptions. In my case, I have he DS Audio App which comes with the file station on my Synology NAS and I can navigate through the files easily. The UB-9000 IMO is worth its price as a stand alone CD player. However, with many people using outboard DACs, one can buy a nice DAC for around the same money. For machines such as an Oppo, one can also convert SACD discs to output 24/88.2 and go through an outboard DAC. Of course, Oppo players these days tend to sell for a pretty penny (I've actually though about selling the Oppo 203 which now sits in a guest bedroom with my old UHD TV and never saw tons of use as I only had a bit more than a handful of UHD discs and I have my main system for music and other systems as well). So I personally don't have much use for disc spinners. |
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Is your Pannasonic 9000 player the most current universal spinner?" Yes - the UB9000 is their flagship. I also have the (Panasonic) UB820 in the main system, which is the model down, but just use that for video and it is better than the Oppo 103D I had in the main system for that purpose. I has an Oppo 203 in the system where the UB9000 now sits. The UB9000 smokes it on both audio and video. I have the Oppo 203 in the upstairs bonus room system (basically a guest bedroom) with a 55 inch UHD. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/panasonic-dp-ub9000-uhd-player-review.143... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXMNz0doK2U |
I do not have a good baseline to compare and offer an opinion. My COAX was wired out of phase and also wired incorrectly between the tweeter and mid-range (on 1 COAX). This COAX was likely damaged from that second mess up. When I got the speaker home I definitely could hear some nastiness with that COAX. I could not hear it at the previous owners place. So I attribute that to amplification or me not listening so intently. |
@yyzsantabarbara I've read Meta reviews too, from a consistently slight improvement over the original to a significant technology leap for all box speakers. As I've no experience with the original, I doubt I'll be let down. Like I said, the intent is not to replace my Thiels. Recent Stereophile measurements clearly show Meta tweeter wired ouf of phase vs original, though no mention in KEF white paper as to why this should be so. You have your share of experience now with out-of-phase HF units, any idea why they might make this change? I've been very impressed with Blade 2, but admit it would be tough to choose between a known-good-quantity at half price, and a likely very-improved upcoming Meta model, as I had to decide at a much lower price point last week with the LS50. But if it's not about 'smart money' go for the newer Blades: as with the LS50, they'll be tweaking more than just the tweeter rear wave absorption. I've probably taken this far-enough off-topic by now for a Thiel forum... |
@sdecker Congrats on the LS50 Meta. All the comments I have read on it indicated a very nice performance improvement. The Meta are doing something like what Vivid Audio is doing but likely more advanced. I wonder if the rear cancelling Meta allows closer front wall placement. Reviewers usually do not give this valuable info. I am deciding on the Yamaha NS5000 or KEF Bade 2 for my downstairs system. Buying this is all dependent on a stock investment I made. A few years ago I sold my old stereo system and put it into this stock. So if it hits I will spend a bit of money on the living room system without anxiety. I am waiting on KEF to trickle up the Meta tech to the Blade 2. I am under the impression that is in the works. Blade 2 are going for half price used now and is the smarter buy but this next 2nd system is not about being smart. USAAudiomart is free and rather good for selling. Though last night I put up an ad for a WANTED AHB2 amp and I got a scammer redirect me to his/her web site to scam me. I figured it out after some customer support conversation with someone in this group. However, for selling, USAudiomart, is very good. A’gon is also still pretty good. |
Playing catch-up for the past month of this forum. tomthiel: The Philips CD-80 you reference. That was introduced in 1989 (not 1985) for $900. I auditioned it at the time, along with the one-model-lower CD-60 that I bought and used for a decade (later with an Adcom GDA-600 DAC) before getting a deal on a CD-80 that I still use in my bedroom system today. You're right, this was likely the best CDP of its time, overbuilt like a tank electrically and mechanically, with some of the best control flexibility ever. There used to be threads of reworking the CD80 electronics, not as a 'modder' might, but more like Philips might in a "Mk II" to correct and optimize portions of an otherwise brilliant design and execution. yyzsantabarbara: I've taken renewed interest in your threads here and elsewhere about your Thiel and KEF LS50 experiences, as I just picked up a pair of LS50 Metas to 'supplement' my CS2.4 due to a neighbor hypersensitive to what little bass transmission between condos exists, even with my room and 2.4s optimized for minimal LF bleed. Both the stands and speakers will remain unopened until after the holidays, but will be curious how the two speakers compare based on your observations. I have listened to Blades (1&2) at length, but was never in the market for an LS50-type speaker, until now, and the choice was clear. Though i was less clear as to whether the previous version on closeout, or the meta before this batch sold out. Are you going Meta? Finally, I'm going to try again, the first time in years, to sell my mint pair of CS2.3 in maple, complete with the original shipping boxes and manuals. These are later-production models with the already-updated XO and coaxes (the latter replaced at least once). I haven't sold any audio of 'substance' in many years, Audiogon doesn't appear to be what it once was. How and where would this group suggest I go about selling my 2.3s, and for how much? |
gasman117 I seem to recall reading about RCAudio. I am currently contemplating cabling myself. I tend to stay away from any product sourced to china (Most U.S. companies unfortunately)? After I clear this Holiday season, the first brand auditioned will be Swisscable from Switzerland. I will keep this thread posted on my findings. Happy Listening! |
Will do yyz...thanks... first listening comparisons...still so much more to do..given my modest backing of Classe DR15/DR4 pre and analog only on Rega P8/ Alpheta 3/ Rega Aria the 2.4’s detail is insane incredible and definitely better at lower volume than the Mag’s but the 3.7 wall of sound and super sweet upper mid and highs are amazing as well especially at slightly higher volume. Thiel’s base is tighter too but my amps may need upgrade to fully satisfy and expand the 3.7’s base...ear Nirvana on both and still a work in progress...same as most everyone here...haha Brian Ferry : Bete Noir Chet Atkins :CGP Dire Straits Jean Pierre Rampal/claude Bolling Suite for Flute and Jazz Piano...highly recommended btw Time for some rock n roll.... |
Have a look at the AudioByte VOX | ZAP | HUB (1 power cord needed for all three same units. This is going to be my next DAC system ($6K). It will start to get more press in the future. An initial slow burn of awareness like the Mola Mola Tambaqui that everyone is now raving about. I am keeping my Benchmark DAC3B but will also have a second with the AudioByte stack. The tech in that is incredible. |
Amazing how much value one can get from the used market albeit with a bit of risk....makes complete sense since you had the dac...T2 on initial look seems exceptional for my needs but not necessarily at a value price given the rapid changes in the dac/streamer area. although it does seem it is at least somewhat future upgradeable. I have a-lot of cd’s as well so thinking the dac in the T2 would be beneficial vs my current old California audio labs player’s. |
Hi Jafant, Current goodies feeding the Thiels: VPI HW-19 Mk4 TNT, and SME IV.5i arm, both with various DIY hot rodding mods**; Soundsmith Strain Gage cartridge and pre-amp; Marantz CDR510 CD; Some HiRes digital files on the Mac, through JRiver Media Center S/W; Nelson Pass Adcom GFP-750 passive pre; Ric Schulz EVS modded Behringer DCX2496 for subs Xover and time alignment parameters only; PS Audio Stellar M1200 power amps; Thiel 3.7 mains and Thiel SS1 subs; Cables a mixture of Audioquest and Cardas; Aux reference: Stax Lambda Pro phones. (**some mods documented in detail on AudioCircle — links available on request) Yours, John |
Yes the T2 is supposedly the sweet spot in the line. I had the DAC (bought it used as version 1 and sent it to EMM Labs to get upgraded to version 2) already. So for me it was an easy decision and I bought the U1 lightly used. Was already using the NAS with a small fanless PC with JRiver as well. So when I bought the U1 I just installed Minimserver on the NAS and have been using it ever since. |
Tom, That would be a fantastic start to Christmas week thanks for the heads up! Cascadephil, thanks, are you pleased with the overall sound from the U1 through the 3.7’s? I am considering the U1 with a separate DAC as well for cost reasons but the one solution box of the T2 is attractive if I am understanding the differences correctly. |
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On a side note anyone spent anytime with the Lumin T2 with their Thiel’s? Starting to look at my digital/streaming front end which is quite dated." I use a Lumin U1 (and have an NAS in the office it reads with files from) along with an EMM Labs DAC2X (version 2) with my 3.7s. I read the files for my various back-up systems from the NAS as well. |
JM and all - for a dose of Christmas Music with a twist, tune into Dana Cunningham's Christmas Concert, Sunday night at 8PM eastern via her website danacunningham.com It's my first livestream event and I'll be recording it in high resolution audio for (hopefully) future audiophile mastering. Dana's piano journeys are quite a trip. This trip begins in an unfinished restoration of an old-school theater that was gutted by fire several years back and is being brought back to life as a teaching / performing music school / venue. This is the first concert from the bare stage. |
Happy Saturday all, Wow am I psyched...just picked up a pair of totally mint barely broke in CS2.4’s....Can’t wait to starting my comparisons with my CS2’s and the mag 3.7’s.....what a perfect plan for a Christmas week diversion...woohoo....course the kids and wife will probably want me doing my A/B’s with xmas music....🤯...alas sacrifices must be made...ha This will probably keep me busy for the next year once I start adjusting/adding in cables, amp, placements, room treatment etc....will share my impressions. Been reading the thread from beginning to tap the tree of knowledge while I listen thanks all 👍 |
Hi tmsrdg, all, I have two PXOs configured for the 3.7s. (running a pair of SS1s in my case) They worked well but in my room I decided many years ago to go with a Behringer DCX2496 (Ric Shultz EVS modified) to allow more customized crossover control. (I also have one non-functional other PXO that Thiel and/or their retailer decided to abandon in place and replace rather than repair. I honestly can’t recall if that one is set for the 3.7 or the 3.6s that I had when starting with the SS1s.) I have procrastinated about offering them for sale. Yours, John |
With no disrespect intended to those of you putting forward various proprietary solutions for sub set up, I use the ultimate power in the universe for such configuration with my 3.5s - a pair of ears. Not scientific, but my goal, as I’m sure applies to all, is to create the sound that best works for me musically, not technically. As I say, not wishing to put down other solutions, but I really can’t see how ears can be beaten. |
One thing to help with integrating a sub that is not super expensive is the (Studio Six Digital) AudioTools App (for phone or tablet) https://www.studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/ I have an Audio Control one third octave RTA and can attest that the above (as well as something like Room EQ Wizard) does a great job. One would get a calibrated mic to use with the phone or tablet such as https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-imm-6-calibrated-measurement-microphone-for-tablets-iphon... The mic comes with an individual calibration file. Usually what I do is measure from the listening position with the sub off at first to get an idea as to whatever room induced frequency abnormalities are present. The sub should be crossed over just below where the mains start to drop off (in your room). Where I have had my 3.7s and from the other couple of pairs I have seen, it can typically start to drop off in the upper 20s. As noted, one's room can cause differences in those measurements. If it does start to drop off in the upper 20s, one would want a sub crossover to be just below that. I have my subs (Rel Storm IIIs) crossed over at 22Hz. From my listening position, the bass is near flat from 25Hz and up. The crossovers with many subs are usually not great. Many of the subs are designed with HT in mind, where one would set the crossover high and use the crossover in the receiver or HT processor. Once one measures without the subs, I typically (and that includes many systems I've calibrated for others) set their HT sub (and I have a friend with an SVS sub that somone told him to buy, which he uses with a pair of Ohm 2000s and eventually he'll replace that sub as the low crossover point is 50Hz) at the minimum crossover point. When I use AudioTools with the RTA, I take a screen shot of the measurement without the sub. After setting the crossover at or around the lowest point (depending on the speakers involved), I'll use the subs volume control to achieve what is a better measurement with the sub active. With many HT subs, as noted above, you won't get as good a result vs. using something like a Rel or Thiel sub which are designed more for music use. My friend does nice woodwork and has a friend who designs commerical systems and at some point (an amp is next up in his system) he'll build something better that his current sub. |
Oh Boy! found a pair of 3.7’s locally!! couple of blemishes. Drivers are ok. compared to the 2.4’s, much more detailed I easily noticed it in the cymbals. The 3.7’s sound so much more “open” and realistic. Bass is extended but is perfectly blended. Can’t point out bass or mid issues. In fact the entire sound is integrated beautifully. Imaging is about same as the 2.4’s easily well outside the speakers. as is known, they are source dependent. Some sibilants like snare strikes or sibilants can be harsh but I haven’t treated the room’s walls for that first reflection point. Man. What an enjoyable listen. i am having difficulty integrating my SVS sub tho’. i need to fool with it more to get the crossover and phasing right. |
In a spare system in a smallish bedroom (my UHD video system, although it sounds quite good on music using my Panasonic 9000 playing files from the NAS), I use a Sumiko S.5 sub I got on close-out (with my old B&W P6s I own since 1997), which is a copy of a Rel T5 (Sumiko used to distribute Rel). The sub works really well in the space (11x13 feet with a 10 foot ceiling). I did try to get a Sumiko S.9 (which is a copy of a Rel T9) but I just missed out on the last one at the time. Eventually, I know I'll have to replace the old Rels at some point. Upstairs in my bonus room (basically a guest bedroom), I have a pair of GR Research N3s as mains and when my old Sunfire, Jr. sub started to go (I could have gotten it repaired for $200-300), I opted to upgrade the master bedroom (which is strictly HT with in ceiling speakers) to a Bic Acoustech PL-200 II. I had two subs in the bedroom. The KLH 10 inch 100W one someone gave me went and I moved an 80W 8 inch Dayton Audio sub upstairs to fill in the bottom end of the GR Research speakers. It works well in that regard (not that the system sees tons of use). At some point when I upgrade something, I'll move stuff around. |
I still use a pair of Rel Storm IIIs with my Thiel 3.7s. The subs are probably about 18 years old (have a Rel Strata III in a spare system as well that is around the same vintage). So I'm sure eventually at some point I may have to look for another solution and I certainly got my moneys worth from them. |
Tmsrdg - my knowledge of the SI-1 Integrator is all hearsay from the same sources and reviews as you have. I might add a little more: that Jim and later operatives after his death tried unsuccessfully to develop a troubleshoot-repair operation. Jim was a master intuitive repairman - he could troubleshoot most any circuit in a few minutes and fix it. I don't know what level of effort was put into solving the repair need for the various electronic compontnts. Short answer is that I know very little about the SI situation in particular, but that in general I am working toward a comprehensive repair solution. |
Some testing results with the AHB2 (in mono) and CS3.7 from last night. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/what-is-floyd-toole-saying-about-extra-amplifier-power-and-he... |
