Thiel Owners
@pops @cascadesphil Thanks for the information. I do like that "laid back" British sound, LOL. I currently have Stirling LS3/6 in my main system and Harbeth P3ESR in another system. My Thiel 2.3 speakers appear to have the first generation tweeters. They look like these: In my main system I have Herron Audio M1 monoblocks (recently updated by Keith), Herron VTSP-360 preamp, Sota Sapphire, Herron VTPH-2A phono stage, Roon Nucleus/Aqua La Voce S3 DAC, Marantz KI Pearl SACD player. I really love the way the 2.3s sound in my main system until I turn up the volume, then I want the Brits back in. |
The 3.6 is my all time favorite speaker. I have owned them for close to 20 years, also own CS6 but prefer the 3.6 for it’s realistic tone and timbre and ultimate transparency/clarity.
Cascadesphil is spot on regarding upstream, it will deliver what its fed in spades. Thats why IMO the 3.6 is one of the all time speaker bargains. |
Thiel speakers, especially the older models, are the poster children for needing everything right in the chain before them (e.g. electronics, cables) as they tend to be less forgiving than some other brands (e.g. laid back British type speakers). I've owned the 2.3s many moons ago. Do yours have the original tweeters or the later (vented) ones they changed to (and I'm sure someone like Tom or Coherent Source Service would know)? What is the rest of the system like electronics wise, cable wise and what about the room (size, treatments, etc.). My friend also worked at a high end shop years back and I helped deliver many models. The tweeters can sound bright if pushed hard.
I've owned the 2.3s, 7.2s and now the 3.7s. I find the 3.7s to be more forgiving. The 7.2s were better than the 2.3s with regard to brightness as there was a crossover to a midrange at 1kHz before the crossover to the tweeter at 3KHz (and a crossover at 200Hz) vs. the 2.3s at 900Hz and 3kHz. |
There is a pair of 3.6 speakers for sale near me and I'm curious how they would compare to my 2.3. I had the 2.3s setup in my main system for a while, but when played at higher volumes, they were just too bright in my room. They are now in my home office, where I don't listen loud and are perfect there. I've done some reading on the 3.6 and have found a couple of comments about those also being "bright". I really like the Thiel sound, but can't do harsh high frequencies. Also, if I do decide to buy them, are there any known issues I should check for? Thanks in advance! |
J - thanks for the lead. My purchases are on hold until I find a new workplace; unless, of course, something drops into my lap. I don’t really know the SE status - here’s what I think I know: The 2.4SE was introduced in 2008, which is about a year before Jim’s death after battling cancer about 5 years. So, it is a personal swan-song at some level. When I picked up with Rob around 2018 when New Thiel was going out of business, I believe about 100 pairs had been sold. One thing I would like to find out is whether those SE crossovers were executed in Lexington style or not. The few SE-type upgrades that I have seen are modifications of FST crossovers with ClarityCap SA substitutions in the coax feed. Normal old-Thiel MO would include early SEs having been executed in classic Thiel style. Since the SAs are now a few generations old and we can substantially upgrade the XO performance over the original SE edition, that leaves mainly the red birdseye maple cabinets and other cosmetic niceties. My fantasy collection would include one such pair of 2.4SEs with Renaissance outboard crossovers. |
@jafant Yes, the planned run was 150 pairs but Tom Thiel shared with me that Rob Gillum reported closer to 100 pairs sold. That Mr. Gillum still had SE kits when he started CSS seems to corroborate less than the full planned production. Still, I thought you and I had some of the last pairs built. I guess not! That pair on Audiomart looks to be in better shape than mine although the resolution of the pics leaves something to be desired. That’s a pretty good price although the buyer might want to refresh the electrolytics if not replace the entirety of what is probably FST crossovers. |
jusam - a note about the CS1s. The CS1.2 was designed as Jim got his feet wet with Finite Element Analysis. Its drivers included our first aluminum tweeter and our first use of copper shunting rings and sculpted gap pieces in the woofers. As such its performance stood well above its CS1 predecessor. However, the CS1.5 followed the intervening and envelope-stretching CS5, 2.2, and 3.6. Each product design in Thiel’s history represents new lessons learned, technologies developed and resulting higher performance. It’s no accident that the CS1.5 hung out on Stereophile’s Class A (limited bass) list for so many years. I suggest going for the 1.5 if you can.
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Thanks to all. I am greatful for the civility of the majority of humans on this site. Much of the internet world has people that are on sites to make ignorant and agressive posts. Civility in our country is in demise. I may purchase a pare of used Thiel 1.2 or 1.5 for my second system. Happy Holandaise!
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jafant, thank you. Well, the Bryston BCD-3 will soon be here, replacing the Meridian player. As for my Bryston amp and preamp, Bryston does offer a "refurbishment" service. I spoke to a Bryston rep, who stated that although their amps and preamps have a 20-year warranty, they don't usually "go south" until year 28 or 29, which is unimaginable. Still, the price for refurbishment sounded extremely reasonable, and I'll likely send them in. I was thinking that, since the "crackling" problem disappeared after I inverted the polarity on my preamp, that the problem lies somewhere in the preamp. Aside from moving about 11 times in the last 23 years, my gear has almost never been turned off. |
Hello all and Happy Thanksgiving! Once in a while, I get a "crackling" sound or pop when playing a disc. This happens very infrequently, but over the past few weeks has occurred more often. I shut the power off, cleaned all contacts (XLR and speaker connections) with ECO static inhibitor, changed the CD input to my preamp from BAL1 to BAL2, and inverted the polarity on my preamp (a Bryston BP25). So far ... this has seemed to solve the problem, after trial and error. But has anyone else experienced this, and if so, what did you do to fix it ? The internet tells me that this is not a disc problem, which appears to be true (a crackle would occur at a certain spot on a track, and then not). And there doesn't appear to be anything amiss with my Thiel CS2.4 speakers; the sound is clear and I've never had them loud enough to clip. My Bryston amp and preamp are around 24 years old, and my Meridian player is about the same age. (Static here in Galveston shouldn't be a problem lol). Thanks for your advices. |
nl12048
Welcome! Mark- contact Rob Gillum at CSS. ContactCoherent Source Service is run by Rob Gillum, a former employee of THIEL with over 30 years experience manufacturing and servicing THIEL loudspeakers of all generations. To obtain service on your THIELs, contact Rob by phone at +1.859.554.9790 or by filling out the form below.
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@decathlon1991, Which models? |
Thanlks to all for your input. A friend of mine was a Thiel dealer along with great electronics. For me it all began with Henry Kloss and the Large Advents and their amazing little receiver. Since then I have gone the route that many of you have, Vandersteen, Quad, Magnepan, Martin Logan, Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Classe and far too many others to list (yes, an audio and Jazz aholic) And each model of Thiel, Magnepan and others has served me well....however, every journey needs a starting point and for me the Large Advents began my addiction
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JA - you asked for more about Walter Kling. As I’ve mentioned here, Thiel Audio grew out of an intentional community and its wish to employ ourselves in a mutual undertaking. Besides myself with my wife and toddler daughter, there were my brother Jim and his girlfriend as well as Jim’s school-friend Walter Kling and my fellow Marianist Brother friend Fred Collopy. I had established some viability as a designing craftsman and included Walter in our Conceptions Design Studio. Kathy took on Marketing and relationship-development. Fred was a very early computer pioneer - everything about computers was pretty new in the late 70s. Fred signed up for business development. He later went on for a masters from Wharton in Decision Science and a PhD in Entrepreneurial Development. Walter was a multi-talented artist-craftsman with proficiency as a painter, potter and sculptor. He later went on for a degree in Architecture and practiced that until I wooed him back to Thiel Audio. Of note is that none of us would have signed up to attempt Thiel Audio without the group commitment to combine all talents and risks for the common goal. We were in our 20s, and along with enthusiasm, change is what happens at that phase. Fred gravitated toward his advanced education and we all absorbed his roles, more or less. But his talents and inputs would have been more than welcome. Walter’s wife had left him with two young children, Jeremy and Jennifer. About 5 years in, he ran afoul of Jim’s alpha-male requirements. His departure, around 1980, was devastating, especially for me. We were moving out of our farmhouse beginnings to our "real" industrial space - a time when Walt’s forté of fixtures, tools and methods were needed. That all fell to me in addition to my teaching-training-coaching - process development responsibilities. It’s hard to overstate how much and how varied is the work required to push the limits, to try the untried and grow a company without outside capital or resources. Jim was an extraordinary designer, but those designs must be implemented in effective and reliable ways, every day, all day. Walter was part of that equation and his absence nearly cost us our company. One hundred hour weeks became the norm. Around 1987 we expanded from around 5000 square feet to 15,000 square feet including moving everything while adding new capabilities and doubling capacity, all without missing a day’s work. I was able to hire Walter as construction manager for the physical plant part where I took on the logistics, project management and production design part. It worked. (Rob Gillum came on in that expansion as a young rookie and spent his working life in most of the aspects of manufacturing.) The next few years included cementing Walter back into the company, where he remained until Jim’s death in 2009. Companies prune their PR around the story they want to tell. You’ve rightly heard a lot about Jim, but there was a strong team around him making the whole thing work. Walter was a central player on that team. |
Awhile back someone asked about Thiel binding posts, for which I don’t remember seeing an answer. From my limited perspective: In the beginning we used a post with minimal metal (rhodium over brass) and plastic caps. We got a lot of flack for "cheap binding posts", which in fact they were not. In the CS5 development in the late 80s we revisited those posts and chose them again rather than larger beefier, gold-plated ones. That was before we realized the hazard of eddy currents caused by greater cross-sectional area relative to the input and out wires. As we worked with Finite Element Analysis, eddies in voice coils came to light and we changed from aluminum to nomex. But it seems those lessons were not applied to binding posts, but I wasn’t there and can’t comment on whether attention was paid. I see a progression to beefier posts in later models. My CS1.6s look like gold on brass via the file test. My present work identifies the binding post as significantly upgradable. I developed a CDA101 (best available) 5mm bolt connector, but am getting some GR-research tube connectors for test, which should be better yet. They place the wire ends almost touching while adding very little bulk with a thin tube of CDA-101 copper. They look like what I would have designed if Danny Ritchie hadn’t beat me to it. I have learned that signal path integrity matters quite a bit. |
Tom, thanks again for your valuable hints. I can extend the sweep up to 24K that's the limit in REW signals generator, I will do it as for your suggestion. I'll take the measurements separately L and R channel in order to compare the result, maybe the issue I think to have is only in my head....hopefully! |
