Thiel CS3.6 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
Thiel CS3.7 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
None of the above reccomended amps are spec'd to deal with the actual load of these loudspeakers.
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,494 responses Add your response
Must have high quality upstream electronics. I've listened to Thiel CS6 at a friends w/classe mono blocks and it sounded bright. Room setup & speaker placement could have been partly to blame. My CS2.4 Speakers sounded bright before I got BAT VK-600 @ 300w per channel. Even recently my new PASS X150.8 amp isn't as enjoyable to hear as the Balanced Audio Technology. Something about not only the high frequency but a glorious sweet sounding full midrange. The pass is a very fine amplifier and does have its own secret sauce but with another speaker perhaps... |
@andy2 CS 3.7s tend to be bright, in my experience poweful tube amps like VAC or Jadis is what works best for them. I have tried many different SS amps in the past few years and there was always something missing with my 3.7s. |
Tom D - theaudiotweaktheaudiotweak All the factors you mention led us away from ports except for small / inexpensive speakers. A passive radiator obviates most of the problems you cite. For those ported models, my new work introduces both surface flow and film resonators to make the port very much more ideal. The difference is significant. Those technologies are suitable for any / all ported speakers. I hope to have beta-ready trial kits this year. |
very cool to hear about the design feature for the CS7 speaker Tom. A gentleman on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_Fe0nRXHg gave his personal review of it. StereoNiche
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Thanks Tom. I was thinking of the internal shape of the cabinet and bracing as well as the shape that is displaced by any port of any shape or length Those right angles of corners, braces and oddly shaped ports must generate turbulence and interference and blowback that impede airflow of the intended cone motion. Maybe I will make a clear top panel and place a smoke device inside so I can view the turbulence generated by all the contained boundaries. A passive radiator or two maybe the cleaner way to travel especially inside a poured or cast cabinet. TomD |
Tom Thiel did you or your brother Jim ever study or observe any benefit of the structural placement of driver's or port tubes as they relate to laminar flow inside of a speaker cabinet. Are there any published studies on turbulence generated by internal cabinet shape or attached support obstacles? TomD |
Hey all, wondering if anyone could provide any insight to an issue I'm having with a pair of Thiel CS 2.2's I'm working on for somebody.
The woofer in one of them just won't stop farting/bottoming out. They're both OEM woofers and I have an OEM replacement and it does the same thing as the old driver. I don't know if they have different max power handling capabilities but that is what it sounds like. There are no tears from the cone to the spider, the voice coil isn't rubbing, there's no sag in either driver, they test within spec, and they sound fine at low volume. 30Hz tone test makes this ghastly flapping sound, and turning anything with heavier bass on causes this to happen. Meanwhile; the other speaker sounds great at all volumes. I've already repaired the surrounds on the passive radiator and nothing is rattling in these rock solid cabinets. I'm at a loss, anybody have any ideas? Could this be a crossover issue?
Thank you! |
Speaking of fans my Music Fan reduces speaker baffle and room boundary effects. Makes for more focus within a larger soundstage. Bass has greater articulation like applying a giant comb. I would expect Doug and Tom’s film approach could've be applied to room surfaces as well as many different brands of speaker baffles. Congratulations to Team Thiel and all their cooperative and diligent work! I am working on an applied formula that has a negative Poissons ratio and when applied to surfaces reduces their shear velocity. The closer a material’s shear velocity is to the speed of sound is in air the better the transfer of musical energy. TomD Congratulations to Team Thiel! |
Please do report back on this when and if. Excellent news. Thank you. |
I apologize in advance for many of you who have heard this before . . . I am a big fan of the sealed bass in the CS3 and 5 series. In fact, Thiel was philosophically committed to sealed bass in its upper models, while allowing reflex bass in its lesser models with the cost savings reflected in the lower sell prices. The main advantage I see in sealed bass (whether equalized or not) is the phase / time coherence all the way down to the low limit, and then 12dB/octave to subsonics. That is radically different from reflex bass which attenuates the woofer at 24dB at its bottom and the port at 24dB at its bottom and top rolloffs. That puts the foundational deep bass a full wavelength behind the upper frequencies. That's 20+ feet, depending on actual tuned frequency. Philosophically that runs contrary to Thiel's committment to wavefront integrity. When that direction was coming to be in the 3.6, the mood was more relating to what others' products (even with 6-figure prices) were getting away with. Some of us are more sensitive to the philosophical integrity, and others notice the sonic discontinuity of reflex bass. Note that Thiel reflex bass is executed as well as I've heard it. Look at the clean graphs and the tight tuning. But . . . it's still not the real thing. |
unsound, The CS 5i delivers thunderous bass with impact and authority. Not that it is a one trick pony and deficient in the the other frequencies but the bottom end ir very rare to hear in a speaker like this. The CS 7.2 has a 12" woofer whereas the CS 5i utilizes three 8" as I'm sure your're aware. The CS 5i bass is faster. The bass notes are more dynamic and hit you quickly reaching its peak, then dissipating in reverse fashion to utter silence. I equate this to a head jolting acceleration in a Koenigsegg to 100 mph then to a dead stop. Exhilarating.
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@duramax747, I look forward to more, especially images. That you were using CS 5i’s is of special interest, as I’ve been a long time admirer of that particular model. |
unsound,
Allow us to get her make-up on before we reveal to the public. I'll leave describing the room concept to Tom as he was the designer of the room. He asked what perimeters he had to work within, as far as footprint, and he went at it from there. I will say when first introduced I was confused in its non conventional approach. But if you want to get to the fruit you need to go out on a limb where the branches are their thinnest. I proceeded to demo the old space which had 8 ft. sheet rock ceilings. It had tile floors on a concrete slab so not an easy demo. I came into work earlier @ 3;00 am and performed my moonlighting gig before I had to leave to conduct my day job duties. I will go more into construction details when I post images of the room and after I perform my "To DO" list of modifications. I will say the focus for the room was not to hear/or the ill effects of 2-3rd reflections at the listening chair. No side wall dampening was ever designed. Tom and I both agreed on a very dynamic space for the Thiel to clear her throat and show us her range. Our first round of testing we concluded we did not need any side wall acoustical treatment. In fact within the first hour of our listening Tom and I both agreed the .500" thick natural wool rug between listener and speakers should be removed. It was and it oped up even more. I will reveal more later but will say the floors are a significant part of the room. I had just socks on while listening so I could feel the floor. It was not moving the slightest. I wanted to push the room, especially with the CS 5i, and load the room. We were playing a very unique track with kettle drums and other various percussion instruments. Bass was in the mid 20hz with some of the track and Tom thought we were in the 98-102 db range. As I stated if room was going to fail I wanted Tom to be there and hear it under serious load. Even under this extreme circumstance the floor was rock solid stable. Another item checked off the list that did not need any revision. The rear wall is where we really deviate from a conventional room. With our back to that wall there was absolutely no reflection that smeared the sound coming from the wall. Another really cool feature is the built in Bass/diffuser traps in front wall corners which measured incredibly well. They were not constructed on a bench then installed. Instead we constructed them in the room and built them into the building's framework. The pair took a considerable amount of time to construct and assemble that I did not anticipate. When Tom arrived I had to ask him how long it took others to build these devices into the framework of a house/building as I felt like they had gotten the better of me with the man hours devoted to their construction. I was looking to be validated dam-it. Tom looked at me straight in the eye and said - No one dared to move forward with such an undertaking before until you. (Paraphrased). I felt like this was a pull my finger moment that an older brother would pull on you. I bit. When I was making the bass/diffuser traps I thought to myself I am going to pay tribute to the man who establish the standard as to what a book matched veneer speaker should look like. When I was making the panels I decided to do the same and match each panel in Bass/diffuser with it's sister. When completed the panels are 18ft apart center-to-center and they look like they were sawn in half to mirror one another. I felt a certain satisfaction so I did not reveal to Tom. I was going to surprise him on his visit. When I thought the appropriate time presented itself I mentioned to Tom what I did. Again he looked at me and said " I noticed that when we first sat down and started listening to music".
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tmsrdy, A pair of CS 3.7 are on my list to purchase. They have to be in very good condition and within a reasonable driving distance for me to purchase as shipping is not an option with the high risk of damage. With that said, as upgrades are being made I can test what Tom mentioned on a pair that I hope to get and can report back. I already have SCS4 monitors, CS 2.4, CS 2.4SE, CS 2.7, CS 6, and CS 7.2, and two pair of CS 5i. I feel I possess a reasonable representation of Thiel owners regarding speakers. I am also getting a pair of CS 1.6 from a former Thiel dealer. What passion they still have for the Thiel brand. I have spoken to a few and their zeal is infectious. I bought a pair of CS 5i, in upgraded walnut finish with original plywood crates, spikes with case, and manual all in pristine condition. He drove them to the facility, which was a fair distance since he got a hotel to spend the night. He offered to set them up for free. Oh by the way the delivery was free also. He had cost with gas and hotel. However, finding a good home for the CS 5i was more important to him than his cost to deliver them. Truly an exceptional human being. I mentioned this story to Tom and he asked who the dealer was. When I told him he laughed and said I remember him when he was a little boy working in his grandfather’s shop and seeing him when I’d go there. Hearing stories such as these reenforces the commitment Thiel had/has to their customers and dealers. When I was speaking with the Thiel dealer, he said with other speaker brands he carried, his customers constantly upgraded or moved on to other brands. Thiel owners were far less likely to do that. They had/have a loyalty to the Thiel brand. These are not my words but the dealer’s. This and Tom’s visit has pushed me to fast tracking this dedicated listening room with the modifications needed after Tom swept the room when conducting his testing. I guess I will put all the speaker models in a hat and pick one out each day and that will be the speaker I listen too. Or maybe Tom could devise a diffuser wheel that can be spun in the room, and get better sound, that will select a speaker when it stops spinning. Okay now I'm just showing-off. Using Thiel’s motto- what we will do "For the love of music".
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tmsrdg - patience is the key. The 3.7 is late model classic Thiel. Its ’needs’ are far closer to ’wants’ than earlier models which have far more real problems, upgrade potential and far more head-count in the field. But to address your question, there will be a multi-pronged development and delivery. Each model will have its own upgrade protocol. Your 3.7 drivers are ’settled’. Your crossover will have some user installable upgrades. Specifically some of your Yellow Styrene 1uF bypasses will have replacements by way of custom Reliable multi-sectioned caps, in either aluminized or all-copper, as well as various non-inductive resistors. At some later date those upgraded parts can be re-used in a new serpentine XO layout, either inboard or outboard. This first-offering upgrade will also include a set of wavelaunch films which can be applied by an adept user / or via some other arrangement - as yet unknown. Similarly a new internal wiring harness will be available to be routed through the existing soft tubing, possibly with additional hold-downs. The new cable has less structure and depends more on mechanical support from the cabinet. These examples are illustrative of future vision. At this time we are starting with training wheels with the SCS4, either extant, or new higher-grade specimens. Lessons learned there will be applied to next-step offerings, addressing older models with larger problems, such as replacement drivers and generally more room to grow. CS1 through 5 models will get early attention, starting with the CS3 / 3.5. This information is a peek behind the curtain. There is ongoing work being done and many moving parts. Cheers, Tom |