Thiel Owners

Hello again- claero

I listen at high volumes. If your system is too bright at that level,  try experimenting with cables and power cords to "tone" down the presentation.

Happy Listening!

Good to see you- prof

excellent example.  There are many hidden values to be discovered.
Appears that you found your in the form of a PC.

Happy Listening!

Precisely! oblgny-

I used Monster Cable spool wire and patch cords back in the 80's to the early 90's.  Around the mid-1990's I switched over to some entry level Tara Labs and it really made a difference (mid-fi gear at that juncture).

Happy Listening!

- "The best part, one does not have to spend big money, to make it happen. In fact, always buy used or demo and save a bit of coin. Every audiophile can afford quality cabling -you would be foolish otherwise." -

Completely agree!

As an example of this: I had the opportunity to own some very highly regarded - and expensive - Shunyata power cables.  Universally praised at that time.   Did I detect a difference?  With one of them, the most expensive, yes!  I was just about sold.  Then to double check, I had a friend help me blind test them against a standard military grade $15 power cable.  Turned out I couldn't actually hear any difference.  I often detected just the same "improvement" when the $15 cable was in the system.  The mind is funny like that :-)

So as you say, I didn't have to spend big money - that cheaper power cord was all the quality I needed - and agree it would have been foolish of me to choose otherwise ;-)

prof...

Excellent commentary on perhaps the most contested aspect of assembling a high fidelity system.  At the end of the day the single-most important component in any setup is one's head. 

I used to go to the local stereo stores and buy spools of speaker wire. Back in them days components came with the plugs already.  There wasn't a helluva lot of tweaking latitude then. 

Hi 

Ihave a question.

Is there any user turn the volume really  high ? 

I m not sure if i can express myself.

I feel that i need to compressed the high note if i need to turn up the volume ? Will you have the same situation ?

And also when jim thiel test the speaker . will he use any high end or aftermarket cables ? Or only the normal black cable 

These question really confuse me because i did blown few tweeters already.

Please share your thought

robinbarbour,

You got it! 

Hi oblgny,

I am sympathetic to the desire to squeeze any more performance out of our systems as possible.  I certainly succumb to that desire myself.
I have come to my conclusions about cables through having paid close attention to the technical arguments regarding cables and having followed the results of blind tests for decades, as well has having participated in some.  I used to review audio gear for a while, and have been heavily connected within the audiophile community, I have friends and acquaintances who are high end audio reviewers, etc, and so I've had the opportunity to use, audition, test, including blind testing, a large number of high end cables - from the cheapest to speaker cables/interconnects costing $45,000!   

That's not to say that anyone here has to or should believe anything just because I believe it.  Rather,  it's simply to point out that my stance on cables doesn't come from a position of inexperience with high end cables - as if I have dismissed them out of hand or never tried them.  Just the opposite.  (And the immediate reaction of many audiophiles to doubt about the relevance of expensive cabling is usually something like "You must not have experience with great cables, don't knock it until you've tried it."  I've tried it, in many systems, for decades).

I'm not going to claim no (competently designed) cables can make a difference.  I'm open to the possibility.  But in my own tests...this has not been born out, nor does it seem any consensus has been reached by more rigorous controlled methods of testing cables.   Unfortunately beyond that we have anecdote, and audiophiles generally have about the worst protocols you could have for actually getting to the bottom of these type of issues (even as I count myself among that group).  

But, again, to be clear I'm not trying to say no cables can possibly make a sonic difference.  But it's a rather huge leap to the claim that cables amount to the MOST important component in the sonics of an audio system.  That is a particularly dubious claim, to say the least.

In the realm of anecdote: the first high end system I heard as an adult were Quad ESL 63s, hooked up to a cheap amp and zip cord.   It blew my mind.  I'd never heard such transparency and realism.  Did the cheap equipment hold the Quads back from showing their distinct benefits?  Heck no.  It was the speakers, not the cables, that were doing that work.

Another time I remember an audio pal and I visited the home of Waveform Mach 17 Speaker designer John Otvos, and had a demo.  He was notoriously against the idea of high priced amps and cables making a difference, and the system was powered by - as I remember - cheap amps like Kenwood (or something similar).  And cheap speaker cable.
The sound was utterly mind-blowing!  I'd heard every big named system you can mention, hooked up to the highest end amps and cables, and the sound coming from Otvos' speakers were a revelation in dynamics, clarity, imaging, natural timbre, etc.  Now...am I open to the possibility that some amazingly designed speaker cable could rend slightly "better" sound in some way in that system.  Yes, perhaps.  But even granting the possibility, it's still a fact that it HAD to be the design of the speakers that was responsible for the head-of-class performance of that sound, not the cables that were used or not used.  The competency of the speaker design utterly swamped the importance of cabling, as it should be.

As for Thiels, yes they are revealing, but most high end speakers are revealing.  (I also tried Nordost and other cables on my Thiel 06s when I had them, BTW).  I've had nothing BUT revealing speakers in my room. 
My friend (audio reviewer) has bought my cast off speakers before.  Did they sound at all better at his place on a panoply of super expensive speaker cables than they did at my place with Belden cable?  Nope. Not that either of us could detect.  In fact, the speakers tended to sound better at my place, because I have a room with better acoustics, and that swamps possible cable differences.    (Though he does have good acoustics - it's just that my room was designed with an acoustician. My Thiel 3.7s with simple belden speaker cable sound better than pretty much every speaker he has reviewed at his place, with all his expensive cables).

I can make my current Thiel 3.7s sound anything from bright, incisive, lively tight and focused, to dark, lush, looser and less focused...just by where I place or angle them in the room.  An alteration of literally an inch can change these parameters, rendering all the similar types of differences one reads for cables.  All of us who have played with speaker positioning know this.

So, again, I'm not out to claim all cables sound alike.  In rigorous empirical terms, it seems the jury is still mostly out on that proposition.
But I have to admit to feeling some discomfort when I read recommendations that suggest cabling is among the most important
sonic components in an audio system.  That, in my view could mislead newbies into thinking they HAVE to join the crowd in spending lots of money on cabling to get their system sounding excellent.  I certainly support jafant and anyone's right to make that claim, and to cite their own experience.  I'm simply adding my own as counterbalance.

The more voices the merrier!

Having got that off my chest...back to Thiels...

....and I've been going through quite an audition process to attempt to replace my Thiels.  I even have Harbeth speakers in at the moment.
Very interesting...(I plan to post my comparisons once I've made a decision).

Cheers,

I think prof meant that cables are not THE most important piece and I would have to agree. My thoughts are speakers...
I would rather listen to Thiel with a receiver and lamp cord than a horrible speaker with a good cable and a receiver. 

prof...

Cabling may be the least important component in a system for those who don't own Thiels, but since I can speak of a previous disposition concurring with your's, I can tell relate that cables DO make a palpable, tangible difference in a system. 

I remain doubtful of cables costing more than my automobile, but experimenting with good ones such as Transparent, Anticables, Goertz,
etc., at such minor "investment" above Best Buy speaker wires, earns more reward than the satisfaction one may obtain from eschewing the sonic benefits of spending a little more on cabling. 

Thiels require good everything as they are utterly unsympathetic to poor sources. Would I spend $10k on speaker cables?  Hell no - even if I could. On the other hand, the few extra few hundred bucks I've spent to complement my system has been worth it. 

In closing, Thiel Reveals!

prof-

we (audiophiles) do not discuss cabling enough, IMO.

Happy Listening!

Which speakers do you own now-stringreen?

Happy Listening!

I had 3.6's.   ...when my wife got sick and passed I needed a present so bought B&W something Diamond ....Thiel's were much better....mistake.

"Cabling is certainly the most important component in any system"

Disagree strongly:  Cabling is the least important component in any audio system. 

But...that's another thread, isn't it :-)

Happy Friday -ALL

Happy Listening!

Thank You- claero

Cabling is certainly the most important component in any system, as it ties, all of the gear together.  Synergy is key.

Good to read that NBS is a match for Thiel speakers (this is the 1st time I have read about an owner using it).

Some other brands to consider;
Audience
Audioquest
Kimber Kable
Norodost
Transparent
Synergistic Research
Tara Labs

hihi

nice to meet u too ...

i owned a pair of cs6 ,ss2 and a mcs1 center . 

actually the first pair of thiel was 2.2,afterwards , i did have big trouble when i just start with 2.3i , the sound with meridian g68 pre amp and proceed hpa sound so lean . expecially all my cables are match for my previous krell pre amp with lots of mid n low . 

these are the cable that i think it works well with .

nbs speaker cable,cannot be power cable (soound obviouly harsh )
kimber pk10 (my thiel just cant lkive without it especially mcs1 will shout too high n burned tweeter few times)
madrigal gel one xlr ( thickest human vocal i try so far ) 

please share some matching cables too ....

regards

hi

nice to meet all thiel owners. just grab a second hand cs6  from my past 2.3 and 2.4 . cs6  have a warmer mid as i listen so far . i did try lots of cable to get a warmer and thicker mid range . 

one thing really want to mention . the dynamic speed n punch of thiel was  the best i heard so far . using it for av system was just punchy as hell .the push n stop reaction just made the hdmovie more exciting . i did try find speakers that can replace thiel in speed but i cant . please let me know if u do know .

hope the real thiel will always be with you 

Another pair of cherry CS 2.4 speakers for sale now.  (2) pairs for sale in th same week?  Hopefully each will find a new home.

Happy Listening!

Guys-

here on the 'Gon there is a cherry (no pun) pair of CS 2.4 speakers at an excellent value.  A pair of CS 2.3 speakers as well.

Happy Listening!

Excellent! oblgny-

you have provided a very nice review of the Simaudio.  This amp is getting quite a "buzz" around the net.  Not a bad review from any owner.

In my personal quest, I have not ruled out an integrated.
Conrad Johnson , Mark Levinson, Pass Labs and Wells Audio has my interest peaked for sure. I have to find dealers/retailers who stock these wares for audition. I would never buy any piece, at this level, w/o a demo.

Good to read that you are enjoying the new gear in your system.
Do not forget the Cabling!

Happy Listening!

jafant...

Sheesh, dude - I was just submitting a post to an unrelated thread (Maggies) when I closed it to submit an update here!  Eeeeerie...

First and foremost I have to offer that we all should REALLY, and I mean really, read the manufacturers manuals thoroughly. As a now official "old fart" with decades long experience of hooking up 2 channel hifi many times over, I most often took the manuals out immediately, glanced at them, and tossed them into a drawer somewhere or, even worse, into the recycle bin. Mind you, these acts of carelessness were committed when my mindset was, "well, here's ANOTHER piece of equipment I'll own forever."

And then I stumbled upon Audiogon...

On point...

As per the Simaudio manual's suggestion to leave the unit "on" at all times - advice that I previously determined to be foolish from any manufacturer - I have to admit that it makes complete sense with the 340i integrated.  As you already know I employ a Furman conditioner in my system which controls the power to all my components. I have left the Furman "on" all the time since purchasing the 340i, leaving it in "idle".  Powering off the 340i immediately puts it in idle mode. There is an on/off switch on the rear of its chassis if one is inclined to do so, but it's located in an absurdly tight space requiring some awkward finger searching, not to mention unnecessary monkeying around with the piece if it's in a rack. If there's news of a storm I simply power down the Furman. 

Anyway...

Yes Virginia, there IS a sanity-clause. Simaudio's owner manual suggests that leaving the unit in idle will serve to break the amplifier in, that it will sound better with some amount of hours of operation.  Having owned a fair amount of tube equipment in the past distant and recent  I knew that well in advance. 

The 340i however, unlike anything I've owned in the past, became quite a different source of amplification yesterday afternoon  by following the suggestion. Jeepers - imagine that!

Moving from CS3.5 to CS3.6 has been an education in how "moving up" a manufacturer's lineup may infer "mo' better", but rarely if ever delivers.  In my case it has - in spades. 

Yesterday afternoon I turned on the HAP to spend a few hours relaxing after getting a quote on a new roof for the house. (Shit - there goes the Pass Labs monoblocks!)  Kidding...

What the 3.6's showed me immediately when I hooked them up a few weeks back had become considerably more refined, focused, defined. The soundstage, which I believe I previously mentioned as seeming to float 3 feet in front of the speakers, remained intact, gaining a sense of presence they possessed before - after all we're talking Thiel here - but now almost tangible. The 340i had broken in. 

Man, the lower midrange and bass became tighter at low volume, again, more defined. Prior to yesterday I was thinking, "gee, this amp kinda overlooks the low end at low volume" - which could also be said of the Thiels - but it became well defined and true, "musical" instead of "reproductive" if you will.  At first the 340i seemed to "thicken" the midrange compared to the Pass Labs/BAT setup I enjoyed prior, but now more articulate, less emphasized?  The mids on the 3.6 are outstanding to begin with, here the instruments could be better recognized. 

The upper mids and the highs...stunning, and from speakers that are well known for doing that in the first place.  Again, listening to one of my reference tunes, "Cyril Davis" off of Ginger Baker's "Why?", the piano gained presence, weight, definition. 

I promise not to use "defined/definition" again. 


Well,  I'll at least try not to...

This is the same amp, same speakers, same source, same cabling. What the 340i was holding back it just gushed yesterday afternoon. 
Moving up to the 3.6's over the 3.5's has been an absolute pleasure.  The 3.6's midrange is far more immediate than the 3.5's had been, it's lower midrange and bass reproduction is as fine, perhaps even more articulate than I enjoyed from the 3.5's. 

jafant...I am almost hesitant to suggest yet another possible source to drive your 2.4se's but...Simaudio might find a place in your list you most patient  son-of-a-gun!

PS:  I've moved the speakers 9 feet apart, 18" inches from the back wall. Mo' better. My virtual systems page shows my current setup. Take special note of the Salamander cabinet.  I bought that for $189, tax included, at Stereo Exchange in NYC when they were selling off to the walls to relocate. They're reopening soon. 

Happy Friday! All -

Happy Friday! All -

On the other side of this coin, a Conrad Johnson Gat or ART3 would fit the bill very nicely!

Happy Listening!

The ARC Ref5 SE is tops in my book- William.
You would hard-pressed to find one better.

Happy Listening!

Just thinking about my old setup for a while today which results in my leaning toward Acoustic Research preamps with Thiel over Balanced Audio Technology, PS Audio, Musical Fidelity, and a couple of passives I'd ran through the Pass amp. 

To my ears the ARC didn't color as much even though the other pre's mentioned couldn't be said to be "colored", either. Had the ARC pre's had a remote I may have never considered others. If - and I do mean IF - I decide to return to separates in the near or distant future ARC will be my choice in preamps. 

Thiel CS3.6, # 4789 and 4790.

Thiel CS3.6,  # 3021 and 3022. 

Another thought on a 'SE' registry;
an exact number (#) of pairs produced is helpful to determine (hopefully) left over parts, drivers, cross-overs...etc., that are still stocked w/ Rob in KY.

PLease list your serial #'s on the CS 2.4SE models as soon as possible.

Happy Listening!

Always good to see you- oblgny

Happy Listening!

Thanks! for the follow up as to wether or not Larry worked for Jim Thiel.

An official "registry" could be of use to Rob in Kentucky.

Happy Listening!

jonandfamily-

both ARC and CJ are sonic matches for Thiel loudspeakers.

Happy Listening!

Thanks! for sharing- prof and saffron_boots

Yes, I believe there is a need for a 'SE' registry.
I own pair- 177/178.

Happy Listening!

Good to see you here- Drrsutliff

Happy Listening!

It IS so worth putting together a registry!

Thanks for the info saffron.

@prof @jafant Don't believe I'm doxing him, but Larry was Director of Sales, and Marketing at Thiel Audio ~2000.  He's mentioned the positions in other threads on here.

With respect to the 2.4SE numbers: according to Rob's memory they made ~200 of the 300 run.  The paperwork is lost which is why the number is inexact.  Sounds like everything went to hell, with the closing of the original Lexington, KY location, and the laid-off staff walking out unceremoniously.  Also, it doesn't appear the speakers were "buttoned up" sequentially either, which could lead to the situation of my pair (181, 182) being the last to leave the factory and yet, not be the highest numbered ones.

I wonder if it's worth putting together a Signature Edition Registry, to see what numbers are out there, and their location?

Cheers,
Warren  

miyu...

I agree with oblgny. The AR/Thiel setup is NOT a mismatch. I think there is a misconception that lower powered tube amps can't drive the Thiels. I have driven my 3.6s with the AR VSi60 and the Ref75 with excellent results. I am now very satisfied with my AR Ref150. I have ventured into solid state Bryston and Krell amps, but I have come back to the tubes and I have no plans to change.

Man, I had some good listening last night...Nicky, Ruth and Heather's voices on The Wailin' Jennys "40 Days" album is absolutely stunning. Their voices are so distinctly focused on the soundstage and blend so seamlessly!

The amp currently employed for my Thiel 2.4s is a 100 watt per channel VAC PA100/100 that was upgraded a few years ago. With the choice of an 8, 4, or 2 ohm speaker tap off the transformers this amp performs amazingly well and with Audience 24AU SE cabling the system sounds sublime.  My curiosity is getting the best of me about more power and this has led me to arrange a home audition of an Ayre VX-5 "twenty" starting this afternoon for a couple of days.  Should be fun.

miyu...

I don't find your AR/Thiel setup a mismatch at all. In the past I ran a couple of AR preamps, an LS2, then an LS2b, and an LS 3, and I found each to mate exceptionally with my Thiels. 

My listening levels are conservative to say the least.  My CS2.2's were played with a 35 watt per channel integrated amp - the beginning of my suffering from a chronic, then undiagnosed, case of severe audiophilia.  There is no cure, besides, the disease is fun. 

Remaining high on my list of manufacturers that seem to have an affinity for Thiel are Acoustic Research, Balanced Audio Technology, Pass Labs, Threshold. Of these my top choices are Pass and AR.  

I'm currently digging my Simaudio 340i integrated with my 3.6's, my quest to "dumb down" from all the wiring and procedural complexities encountered with separates. So far, so good.  

Turn it on, turn it up!