Thiel Owners

Jafant, I hope you noticed the Anthem 225 specs. Losing power from 8 Ohms to 4 Ohms hardly qualifies it as "high current" (with an * for short term, no less!). Heck, there are some tube amps with more current.

Jafant,letting your ears be the best resource is quite profound indeed!While listening to my 3.7's and my Xpa 5 today I was quite surprised how good it sounded!Mcintosh worthy,no.Similar to taking out the garbage-not at all! I need to stop obsessing about every last detail and start enjoying what I paid for!I think I need more music before anything else .I do believe everybody on this page  already has great speakers!Enjoy!

Not sure about Class H- corvette01 ?


There has been much written about Class D becoming the future in amplification.  Let your ears be your best resource. Happy Listening!

As I have read about it- Anthem has several new products hitting the marketplace in the Fall.  New amps, new receivers and new processors.
More to follow.  Happy Listening!

Thanks! for sharing- unsound.

Happy Friday- All.

Stereophile Aug issues reviews Emotivas new class h amps?An actual 2 ohm rating is given.Still doesn't double down though.Class h?Im having a hard enough time considering a class d.Are these really going to be the amps of the future?

oblgny-

I, too, do know how I feel about Class D amplification. I have only been exposed to the Anthem 225 and Primare I-22 integrated amps.

I am certain that Primare has made great strides in the newer 32 and 34 series of electronics, in particular, its CD32 spinner.

I can report that the Anthem 225 is very high current. So much so, that it easily drove the mighty CS 3.7 without clipping. I do listen at loud volumes.
Louder = better.

Happy Listening!

Good to see you again- pops.

Agreed, an integrated can certainly work w/ Thiel speakers. It is a very good thing to have options.  Happy Listening!

Very nice locale -corvette01

you have access to many, many excellent Audio shops in IL, WI and MN.

Happy Listening!

corvette...

A little while back I was driving my 3.5's with a Primare A34.2 class D amplifier - I forget which preamp I was using at the time - 150 watts into 8ohms, "almost double that" into 4 ohms. (The "almost..." quote direct from Primare when I inquired regarding the manual's lack of providing a 4 ohm rating.)

While I can't fault the Primare for anything it did or didn't do, I fall back on my preference for the Pass Labs X150.5 solid state amp with the 3.5's.  It's just a "me-thing" with Pass, even now when I'm happy with my Simaudio 330i integrated which is "only" 200 watts into 4 ohms. I hasten here to reiterate that I listen at VERY conservative levels, and I've never blown an amp or a speaker in my life. 

I have used Thiels many years and always had high current solid state amps with tubes in the preamp.  Currently using Mcintosh 501 mono’s with a pair of CS6 Thiels.  Also occasionally match them to an old Classe CA 200.  Both drive them equally well, have never used Class D’s.

I have however heard 3.7’s driven with a very modest NAD integrated amp, don’t remember the model, and it sound plenty robust to me.    

Has anybody used a class d amp with Thiels?Ive heard technology has come along way.Thiel rep told me to look for an amp that doubles down,not limiting current.A lot of respectable amps still don't,but some class d amps do.Not fully doubling down is why he didn't like Emo amps,they don't.Xpa 1 is 600 at 8 and 1000 at 4, no 2 ohm rating,limiting current he said!

Jafant,I'm right outside of Chicago.Thanks for complements.I really do enjoy audio and have for along time.I just wish I could have learned more sooner,would have saved a lot of money!My Thiels are the best and the worst speakers I ever heard!Every change,good or bad makes a difference!I still have noticed more of a difference changing preamps rather than amps.Im burning in new rocket 44 cables and a big sur off my dac,so I need to leave it alone for awhile.I started thinking about selling xpa 1's to go back to one amp?I didn't get the wow factor going to monos,but my 805's are really happy with them!

As William suggested a few months ago- you guys list the serial numbers for your Thiel speakers.  As above, I would certainly keep those Les Paul Edition 3.7 speakers.  A very rare production model indeed. Beautiful as well.

Happy Listening!

corvette01-

where are you located?  I have enjoyed reading your input on this particular thread! Keep writing and Happy Listening!

The easiest to drive Thiel speaker I've ever used or heard of is the older Thiel 02 speaker (which I still have).  90 db sensitivity, easy impedance load, these things live and breath almost like a high sensitivity speaker, even with lower powered tube amps!  Still sound absolutely gorgeous.

Prof,I had people from NY,Florida,SF,and Canada beg me to ship them.Add said cash and local sale,will not ship.finally someone with real money in Texas wanted me to ship them and I said no!I wanted cash in hand when they left my house!I guess that was too much to ask?If the got damaged,there isn't another pair.Maybe keep both pair,one upstairs and the other pair downstairs?👍

I hear you corvette01.

I had to sell my Harbeth Super HL5 Plus speakers recently, wanted local sale (I'm in Canada) and it was all the local sale people who hummed and hawed.  Ended up selling them to someone in the USA.

Though, literally 1/2 an hour after I secured the deal to ship them to the USA, the local guy got the money to buy them.  Would have been soooo much easier, but I'd already committed to someone else.

I'm going to have to go through this again, probably not that long from now,  when I decide whether to sell my 3.7s or my 2.7s.

I've come to terms with the 3.7's.Garbage in,garbage out.ive realized that not everything will sound good on them!They add nothing to the music.Sometimes there is very little bass,then I change the song and say where did all the bass come from!Its that dramatic.If its there they will play it,if not it won't.

Prof,yes nothing but stories is what I got,wasting my time!I wanted a cash,local sale only and I'm sure that didn't help!Not everybody has 7k for used speakers!Also the finish is not for everybody!Not every wife what's Jimmy Page in the living room!Mine likes the finish and said not to sell them.Listing them for free on usmart was a mistake.I should has listed them here!

corvette01, I was seriously thinking of making an offer on your 3.7s back when I first saw these, but I just couldn't justify the extra money for the Les Paul edition. At the time, I was about to buy a pair of 3.7s in Atlanta (driving distance for me) for a couple of thousand dollars less, but they sold during my indecisiveness. I really want to hear a side-by-side comparison of my 3.6s with the 3.7s in my listening room.

oblgny, I am tempted to give the X250 a try in my setup, but I think that I will keep money on reserve just in case a pair of 3.7s (or possibly 2.7s after reading prof's helpful input) show up on the market. The X250 is 13 years old and amps over 10 years old always concerns me. There are numerous used components that I have bought and sold after a short audition when they didn't meet expectations, only to loose the cost of shipping. That is one of the benefits of buying used, but I sometimes wonder if age related sound degradation is why expectations were not met.

corvette01,

So if I understand correctly you got only really lowball offers?  That seems weird, since as far as I can tell 3.7s have sold fairly well over the last couple of years (and now are all the more rare).  I wonder if people are wary of a custom finish or something?

jonandfamily...

I'm currently using a Simaudio integrated with my 3.6's and find it pretty damn good, 200 watts into their 4ohm load.  I sold off my second X150.5 and a BAT VK3i preamp simply because I grew weary of all the wires and what not. 

I started  out with a First Watt M2(?) ss amp and almost immediately moved to my first X150.5 when I got my first pair of 3.5's. I've had a few AR preamps and they pair exceptionally with Pass and Thiel.  The X250 for sale here is an early model, followed by the 250.5, and the 250.8. From what I've discovered, at least with the 150 series, there is no manufacturer upgrade path from one to the next. Obviously, Pass commands a pretty steep entrance fee - the 250 for sale here is as much as a used X150.5 goes for currently, but with a LOT MORE power on tap. 

Yes, I'd say the Pass 250 is more than well suited to your 3.6's.  

The add was mine!I had a lapse in judgment!At the time I was sick of b.s. offers and was ready to give them away!Im keeping them and would no longer let them go for that! I was ready to back to b&ws,not any more!I haven't ever seen another pair like mine yet!I think someday I'll leave them to my son.

oblgny, I have tried other solid state amps including Krell and Bryston with by Audio Research tube preamps, and ended up selling and going back to AR tube amps, now with a Ref 150. I'm always looking for better. Do you think the X250 would match up with my AR Ref 5E preamp and my 3.6s?

Undoubtedly unsound will offer wise advice/suggestions regarding powering the 3.7's appropriately;  his past advice regarding my former 3.5's was useful and utilized. Toward that end I have to once again offer my opinion on Pass Labs - if the cost is in your wheelhouse.  Right now there's an X250 up for grabs here for $2500 - pretty much the same amount I paid for my two, on separate occasions, X150.5's.  I believe the X250 is 250 into 8ohms, 450-500 into 4ohms. Pass was by far and away the most neutral or colorless amplifier I've owned to date, IMHO a perfect match for Thiel loudspeakers which share the same sonic descriptions - colorless, neutral, accurate.  

Per unsound's spot-on remarks, the 3.5's were/are possibly the easiest Thiel model to drive without stressing the amp, 300 watts into 4 ohms and I never stressed a hair remaining on me head. 

Funny how we evolve our systems around these excellent speakers, ain't it?

I always wondered if those Les Paul 3.7s sold or not.  It can be hard to tell when trying to track sales of speakers.

There was a pair of 3.7s Les Paul Edition speakers on usaudiomart a few months ago for sale for $6800. The ad expired (never said sold). Does anyone know if these ever sold. They were a nice looking pair. I can no longer repond to the seller, since they're expired. If you go to the website and enter 649304777 in the search line, you can see them.

There was a pair of 3.7s Les Paul Edition speakers on USAUDIOMART a few months ago for sale for $6800. The ad expired (never said sold). Does anyone know if these ever sold? They were a nice looking pair. I can no longer respond to the seller, since they're expired. If you go to the website and enter 649304777 in the search line, you can see them.

P.s ,Les Paul's came with factory outriggers.

 Les Paul edition speakers sonically the same as regular 3.7 's.The difference is that they were finished by Gibson,just like a sunburst Les Paul.Each speaker was signed on the back by Les Paul.Only 13 pair were made total.3 pair went to auction,leaving 10 pair left for sale.5 pair in sunburst,5 in tobacco sunburst.Thiel rep told me msrp was 18k.All of this and I'm using Emotiva? Unfortunately,they will have to do for now.I do like the idea of trying a class d amp with them?
 

Can you elaborate on what makes the Les Paul 3.7s special? Different than standard production 3.7s?

Better X- over parts?  More closely matched drivers? , ????.

I would heed dicockrum's advice. Under powered is probably one of the things that causes the most damage to drivers. Don't know your amps but worth avoiding damage in the 1st place.

I talked to a Thiel rep just after I bought the 3.7's.He told me how special the Les Paul Editions are and that he said to find the best amp possible for them!No Emos he said!I had already ordered the Xpa 5 a week before.Thinking the Xpa 1 s would be a lot better,I ordered them the next Christmas.They are really not bad for the price but played much better with my 805's.On good recordings my 3.7's sound great!On average to bad recordings not so much!My B&W's are much more forgiving!I do have a vintage Halfler 280 xl left over?Was thinking of trying it but only 140 per channel and no balanced inputs.Probably a waste huh?

Good to have you aboard- corvette01-

I look forward to your impressions, thoughts and listening preferences on all things Thiel.  You are in for quite a ride. Sure, a 5-channel amp is fine. The more robust, the better.  Do not forget about power amp(s) that support high current as well.  You own a nice system.

Happy Listening!

I know Emotiva aren't the best,but I had to save somewhere because 3.7's were so expensive.While I wasn't thrilled with the amps,they were affordable.The Xpa 1 amps really sound better with my B&W 805 in the basement?I had a Adcom 5500 ,and both  emos were better.I guess that's not saying much though!The only thing that's helps using the xpa 5 is that I don't listen too loudly.Ive never heard my 3.7's with a really good amplifier,haven't had one yet.

Jafant,thanks!Its nice to talk to people who can relate to his hobby and that have similar equipment!I am using a xpa 5 with my 3.7's instead of my xpa 1 monos.I made the change because of ease of use for the family.While I don't think there was a big difference going from monos back to a 5 channel,I didn't a/b the change.Do you think you still get good sound from a 5 channel amp with the Thiels?

Welcome! corvette01

Happy Listening!

prof,

Plus All Thiel owners. Time and Phase Aligned. 1/4" with a tape or 1/16" with a laser ; Not Subtle Differences.

Best to All on this Journey 
nkonor

Thank You jafant

Nice of you to ask , nothing as lofty  as what is sold on Audiogon.
Thiel CS2.7 ( only because I got them for less than 1/2 price New ! )
McCormack DNA-250 ( Conrad Johnson )
Gold Point passive preamp
Carver SD/A-490t CD player
( only because there is some music not available on Vinyl )
Sim Audio Moon LP110 phono preamp thru a regulated power supply
Merrill Heirloom TT with an upgraded RB300 tonearm
and a Grado Sonata Reference cartridge.
all thru Cardas Neutral Reference interconnects and speaker cables,
and arriving any day now a TT speed control from Mr. Merrill,
so I can finally play my favorite album 
David Crosby    If I Could Only Remember My Name
a 4 sided copy at 45rpm that I've had for over a year now.

the future upgrades planned
Tube phono preamp, Decware I think
Origin Live Illustrious Tonearm
and Soundsmith Aida or the Voice or maybe another Grado The Statement ?
Used /Demos most likely due to their prices.

As a true Audiophile or want to be , always looking to upgrade.

prof,

I have a different take on spiking Thiels. I don't know if the 2.4, 2.7, 3.7 have a better system/ outriggers as mentioned earlier, but the 3.5s just had holes in the base that accepted the provided spikes.
Shortly after getting my 3.5s; "Sound Anchor" came out with dedicated stands for the 3.5s. I bought a pair and never looked back. You could use the new threaded spikes that came with the stands or use any spike you desired or Stillpoints of today. The benefit was not subtle. The other benefit was that you could finally level and plumb the Speakers. A not subtle benefit.

 I tried tilting various speakers over the years but the Thiels are time aligned already. You can try it as  robinbarbour suggests. Personally I think Speakers are designed to be setup symmetrically, level and plumb. The more precise; The better. Hence, my use of a laser since Jim Smiths book. 1/16" accuracy. Another; Not Subtle benefit.
Any height difference due to spikes plus stands can be made up at the listening position.

Sound Anchor is still in business. I also had a pair of their stands for a pair of Wilson "Cubs" Anyway, very well made and beneficial to bass, soundstage and imaging.

A lot of listening and moving Speakers and more listening is enjoyable work , but still work .

 If you are able; Take your time.

Best to you
Norb

I had a pair of 2.4's before my 3.7's.I think you can't go wrong with either the 2.4,2.7 or the 3.7's!i think the 2.4's do everything well!While I do like my 3.7's,I can't say they are many 1000's  of dollars better sounding then the 2.4's I had?Maybe keeping the 2.4's and investing 1000's more on better electronics would have been a better idea?I have noticed that my movies are more cinema like with the 3.7's.My problem is that I mess with my system too much,and never really let it break in before I change this or change that!Im definitely OCD!

Prof,
Very interesting evaluation. My thoughts on the 2.7 as compared to previous models was that is was "smoother and more lush" as you say about the 3.7 in comparison. 
This is good stuff....I am appreciating your evaluation as are all reading this. (Who has this opportunity in their home!)
I still think, that it would be beneficial to compare the tilt of the 3.7 and try to match the same on your 2.7. it may give you a different impression, but maybe not - as I recall you were nearfield in you listening position.

I have owned 2.4s and currently have a pair of 3.7s.  To me they sound best with a high quality tube preamp and a SS power amp. They really need 250+ watts and you need an amp that is stable down in the 2 to 3 ohm range.