Thiel Owners

@jafant, I agree with your assessment regarding the Bryton cubed series, its definitely not as clinical as the last versions of the Bryston amps.  Still I was disappointed that despite the absolutely bulletproof build quality, 20 year warranty and all the other things the Bryston has going for it, FOR ME it wasn't a good match for the 2.4's.  I say FOR ME because these amps have been successfully matched with Thiels before ... as a matter of fact I think Jim Thiel showed his speakers with Bryston amplification at show (and that would have been one of the previous series that we judged more clinical).  I think Jim was also fond of VAC on the tube side of things for Thiels.  I continue to think that the Pass amps mate exceedingly well with the Thiel 2.4's and I would encourage anyone to try that combination.  The Pass product is just astounding all the way around for me.

^The 3.6’s impedance might drop a touch lower than the 2.4’s, but the 3.6’s phase angle is gentler than the 2.4’s.

I’ve never heard the 3.6 so will defer to others other than to say the 3.6 reaches deeper into the lowest octave and appears a more difficult load for the amp. Also, I’m a big fan of the coax in the 2.4. My short list of Thiels I think better than the 2.4 are 3.7 and 7.2, maybe the 6 and 2.7 (haven’t heard the last two). And that’s not considering my crossover upgrade. Don’t think I’d trade my pair for stock 3.7s or 7.2s, certainly not without listening first. Tracy Chapman is in my living room as I type :)

Ok, I’m perplexed. 

I could do some research but the expertise is here. 

Same price and both like new cosmetically and functionally CS2.4 vs 3.6?

Chris

jafant

Oops, the spell-checker god misspelled your nickname! Sorry!

jayant

Many Thanks for the recount of your visit with Michael Burns, and of your impression of the Bryston 4Bc amplifier. It correlates with the views of other individuals whom I trust in the music reproduction arena. I don't have unlimited resources, so springing for the 4Bc is not a trivial expense. I've been living with my 4BSST2 for some years, and I guess that familiarity might have influenced my "hearing"concepts. I guess I'm ready to take the plunge and retire the 4BSST2 for a new 4Bc. 
I listen to classical music almost exclusively - - symphonies, chorales, concertos, operas, string trios/quartets and organ. I'm not a bass addict, but want it reproduced in context of what's in the score and has been recorded.
I was able to get a BP-26 and power supply, as I'm putting together a system for my son. So, Ive had the opportunity to directly compare the 26 and the 17c for about a month.  I've listened to both preamps in my system and, all things considered, now prefer the 17c over the 26.  IMO, the 17 doesn't have the somewhat pronounced mid-bass of the 26, and it has a much clearer and smoother treble - - especially with tenor, alto and soprano voices. It's also is less "dense" in the mid and lower ranges. The sources of the music for this evaluation  were my  CDs, played on a Bryston  BCD-3 spinner, through my 2.7 speakers, driven by the 4BST2. Also,I've listened to both preamps with my STAX  Lambda Pro headphones.
I'm certainly not in a position to judge the noise floors on each, so I'll   depend on the knowledge of others, especially if phono preamps are in the system. 
Hope you'll be able to find a CD/SACD spinner that will be what you desire. In the long run, I believe CDs and SACDs will complement streaming as a medium. For simplicity and choice, if for no other reasons.
BTW: My family came from Savanna and Charleston, but migrated to Thomasville. So, now living in Northern Virginia,  I'm jealous of your nice  Atlanta area weather!

brayeagle

This one is for you my Audiophile friend. Thank You for hanging in there with me.  Earlier, on this beautiful sunny day here in Atlanta, I enjoyed a very nice hour drive north of the perimeter (the weather here has been very wet and soggy for months).
Around the Lanier Lake area I found myself visiting Mr. Michael Burns-owner of- Wolfsong Audio. He is a very pleasant Gentleman of Audio and runs his operation from personal residence. He is a prior CS 2.4 owner. His sound room is beautiful and well damped. I was in luck because he is a Ryan Speaker dealer/retailer as well as Bryston and a few others. We listened to a 4B3 power amp, BP-26 pre-amp/separate power source, BDA3 DAC, BDP Pi, Blue Sound 2 device fed into Roon/Tidal, Proceed CD Transport, DH Labs cabling and Ryan R630/Bryston Model T Signature w/ outboard cross-over network. As always, the session began with Jamie Cullum "Twentysomething" CD. The session also began with Bryston Model T Signature loudspeaker. This is a large floorstander which throws a large presentation, lateral soundstage. To date, I have not heard nor seen a loudspeaker that features an outboard crossover- very cool design.
Jamie's piano and organ sounded very fine without any congestion throughout midrange registers. Bass output was solid.   Next, Bryston was swapped for the Ryan Speaker. 
Smaller in driver array and size,  this speaker presented in a more audiophile tradition. Better imaging and soundstage depth was experienced. As Michael and I were talking between numbers, we believe that this model has a 1st order crossover within its design. Tweeter and midrange sure sounded like a time-phase coherent or transmission-line design.  Bass was articulate and clean but output not as low as the Model T Signature (3 larger Bass drivers per speaker).  More selections were aurally pleasing from The Police, Natalie Merchant, Pearl Jam, Michael Hedges, Pink Floyd, James Maynard Keenan, Helmet and The Rolling Stones. 
Referring back into my sonic memory, thinking about the 4B-SST/SST2 series, I would say that the next generation Cubed series has a measure more  warmth along the lines of Pass Labs. For those who felt the older Bryston amps were bright dry or harsh, will be pleasantly surprised in the 4B3. Anemic, clinical nor thin sounding was not appreciated. Talking about the BP-26 preamp which has been around for 10 years now, it still features a lower noise floor than a BP-17 Cubed. A benefit for Vinyl lovers. 
While considering this combo, my search for a reference CD/SACD spinner carries on.  It would have been nice for Bryston to build/design SACD playback capability into their reference BCD-3 player.  In closing, a perfect Spring-like afternoon, good company/ fellowship and very good music.  As soon as I find my spinner, I will follow up with Michael for a second Bryston demo.
Happy Listening!

A room that is 30' will have a resonance at 37.5 hz I think.  (speed of sound is 1,125 ft/sec, 1,125ft/37.5 = 30 so a 37.5hz wave has length 30')  It might be that by extending your response just a little bit below that of the main speakers you're exciting that node a whole lot more.  I have a similar situation in a big open family room/dining room area.  I've found that by equalizing the peaks down 3-4db the problem becomes much less audible.  Too large of a cut and the frequency response is technically better but sounds worse to me.  

I have definitely unplugged it for now! I can consider keeping it without a sub. But I did notice something lacking while watching a movie the other night. Any sci fi movie with a deep music track will make me want more bass. I also listen to hip hop and trap music. Those sound really great and clean without the sub, but there is a something missing. And even orchestral music, which is the main thing I listen to, sometimes feels like it could benefit from a little bit of something at the bass end. Maybe a smaller or less powerful subwoofer would do the job better?

Unfortunately there is only a high-pass filter so I can’t experiment with that.

Have you tried the experiment of unplugging the subwoofer? The Stereophile review of the CS2 points out that the 42Hz extension is adequate for most rock music. And your system making you nauseous is pretty much the opposite of enjoying your favorite music.
https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/1085thiel/index.html

That’s a really interesting idea! Unfortunately there is only a high-pass filter so I can’t experiment with that.

Thank you!

Ryun - I expect you will find good subwoofer advice here. I am not a subwoofer expert, but I have an idea about the nausea you are experiencing.

Researchers have developed Infrasonic Weapons which operate in the 2-4 Hz range which cause nausea to the point of debilitation and death. I suspect you might have an ultra low frequency leak either going into or generated by your subwoofer. If you have a low-cut / high-pass filter, set it around 10 Hz and see if the problem goes away.You can see such low frequencies as cone motion, even though you don't hear them.

I am a completely newbie to these things, but I am now a Thiel owner. A pair of Thiel CS2's fell into my lap last week. I was utterly amazed at how good they sounded, and how I could hear so much more going on in the music. I leapt at the opportunity to get them. I was recommended to this thread by someone from a different thread. Wow. You all are both extremely knowledgable and kind.

I have a question about adding a subwoofer to the system. Because of some of the music I listen to, and because the speakers are hooked up to my tv, I wanted a subwoofer just to capture some deeper bass. I went ahead and bought one. I guess I rushed it. No worries, as I can return it or exchange it easily.

The system I have is:

Thiel CS2s
Rotel RC-1070
Audionics BK-ST 140 (BT-2)
NAD 5000

The speakers are hooked up to the Audionics, which--along with the NAD--is in turn hooked up to the Rotel.

I bought a refurbished Martin Logan Dynamo 12" sealed sub for $583. It is connected through LFE to the Rotel. The main issue is that it makes me feel nauseous. This is so weird to me. I have never heard of that before. I feel unsettled and just plain physically sick. Some additional points:

1. It's better if I set the Low Pass Filter to 35-40 Hz, so it isn't in the same range as the CS2's. But I can still sense it.

2. It's also better if I set the volume incredibly low. In fact anything past the barest minimum volume on this makes me feel bad, and overwhelms the speakers.

3. I have played around with the Phase selection and this doesn't seem to affect anything.

It seems to me that if I have to set something at the barest level and it still doesn't sound great, I don't have the right sub, or the right set up. Do I need something smaller? Or a different brand or set up?

It's in a roughly 10' by 30' space with sloped ceilings.

Thanks in advance for any ideas!

ahofer

Thank you for citing the serial numbers on those CS 3.6 loudspeakers.
Nice low numbers!  Happy Listening!

ahofer,


I became infatuated with the Harbeth speakers last year and ended up buying a pair of Super HL5plus to see if they could replace my larger Thiel 3.7s (I wanted a somewhat smaller speaker).


Ultimately I simply found my Thiels gave me most of what the Harbeths gave, but more refined: cleaner, more precise, less speaker sound, more realistic, yet still rich and organic.    The Thiels also imaged/soundstage with more scale, depth and precision.  So I sold the Harbeths and ended up with the slghtly smaller Thiel 2.7 speakers to replace the 3.7s.


But that's not a knock on the Harbeths; the Thiels were just that good.


I still LOVE the Harbeth speakers and every time I encounter them playing - e.g. at a show or an audio store - I find myself luxuriating in their sound - so rich, organic, clear and "right" sounding.  In fact during a visit to a local hi-fi store I recently compared some highly lauded JM Reynaud floor standing speakers - a brand that has it's own fanatics - to the Harbeth SuperHL5plus.  I found the JM Reynaud speakers sounded very nice, but just not tonally realistic.  As soon as we switched the signal to the Harbeths it was like the tone and timbre of saxophones, drums etc just dialed in to "THAT is what they sound like in real life."


If I had the money and space I'd own some Harbeths too, probably,  But then I have a speaker hoarding problem . :)

Thanks Tom!

Rob is a really nice guy, and has been helping me DIY another repair on my 3.6s (SN 130, 131!).  He may get them up and running agian.

Any Thiel owners switch to  KEF and/or Harbeth?  Observations, things you miss from the Thiels?
I haven't heard Harbeths, and doing so in NYC requires dealing with Andy Singer, who is not the most gemutlich person I've met.  But I'm intrigued - they seem to have a similar cult following to Thiel, and excel at classical music and small ensemble Jazz, which are my thangs.

Prof - I am not sure. Ask Rob.
For my part, I have found a custom replacement for that Peerless tweeter.  I am working on the woofer in the background - I don't remember what it was, but will eventually find out. Perhaps you can find out what Rob has and knows. XO parts should be no problem.

tomthiel

Do you know if Rob can service the Thiel 02s?

Wondering what I'll do if, at their age, they start having issues.

Thanks.

Laserjock - your room will be quite challenging via early reflections. I suggest that room strategy and treatment might be your first priority, with speaker enhancements coming after the beast is tamed.

Thanks all who have put some time and effort into answering my questions. 

I’m very capable of the DIY part (34 years of medical laser field service) 

The $1300 pair fell through but have my sights on another pair that can be shipped in their OEM boxes/crates. 

These will be for a dedicated two channel only system driven by a tube preamp to Red Dragon amp. 

I can add a sub if needed. 

Room is approximately 

17’ long x 9’ wide x 7.5’ high sealed 

beetlemania
Thank You for the update - strong work!
Happy Listening!

laserjock1963
Last but certainly not least, andy2, offers a unique insight and perspective from a loudspeaker builder's background. As you can deduce there is an incredible amount of information, resource and talent here. The perfect Panel.  Happy Listening!

laserjock1963
2nd Note- a very special shout out to Panel members holco and desmond888 who have their own individual threads on the CS 2.4/2.4SE models. All of these DIY guys are Awesome! It is a pleasure having their input here.

Happy Listening!

laserjock1963
Yes- help is on the way via Beetle, Tom and Rob at Coherent Source Service. The CS 2.4 is a very fine loudspeaker in stock form. These guys are going to help other owners take sonic improvement to the next level of unlocked potential.  Grab a pair without hesitation. Stay Tuned.
Happy Listening!

Beetle - it's been my pleasure. Thank you for providing the focus and motivation to stay on task.

Speaking of the other thread, I shared my impressions of the Cardas hookup wire and binding posts over there:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/thiel-cs2-4-upgrade-to-cs-2-4-se/post?postid=1713577#1713577

I am completely finished now! The SQ is superb, immersive, . . .

 Obviously, the upgrade didn’t change the bass extension (the 2.4 has enough for me for pretty much everything I like to listen to). But I think I’m otherwise getting SQ close to or on par with the best $peakers I’ve heard. I’m curious to listen to an uber speaker again to assess that conclusion.

Thanks, Tom Thiel, for helping bring this degree of sonic bliss into my room!

@laserjock1963 

Well, *I* pulled it off successfully. Are you comfortable using a soldering iron? I didn’t have a lot of experience but my electrical engineer father and audiophile older brother taught me some basics when I was a teen. 

If you’re not a seasoned DIYer, I suggest waiting for the upgrade kits from Tom Thiel and Coherent Source Service. Tom spent months researching the parts and has the layout worked out (coil position is important). The kits will have single capacitors with full capacitance rather than having to run two or more in parallel (which *can* have better or worse results). The Thiel bankruptcy, however, is confounding the timing of availability.

If you want to DIY without delay, you can find useful information in this thread or the one regarding CS2.4 to CS2.4SE upgrade. There are at least three of us DIYers on that thread that can offer coaching if you encounter difficulties. 

A hot-rodded CS2.4 is a very fine speaker! The drivers are extraordinary and improving the passive parts quality unlocks their full potential.

I’ve been searching a little but figured it would be easier just to ask here.

I see some talk about crossover components to improve the CS2.4 and was thinking if I got a pair, would it be something that is doable? 

Any info would be appreciated. 

Chris 

tomthiel
Good to read that you are still having fun on the whole XO project. You have made incredible strides and the Panel is grateful for your dedication and passion moving forward!  Regarding your Classe' amp(s), is it a matter of unavailable parts to repair? Or, are you still searching for an Authorized service technician?  Which ever the case, hopefully not both issues-parts v. qualified tech- the matter will resolve to your satisfaction?Across the different Audio forums, Benchmark AHB amps are gaining traction much like the PS Audio BHK series. Thank You for describing in part your studio's form and function. I hope to see it all later this year.
Do you have any local gatherings? Allow any local musicians to play within your studio?  Happy Listening!

JA - the hotrod garage gets some attention every day. I am cooking with a pair of 1.6s and SS-2s with passive XOs. I am using all redbook CDs because the Metric Halo DAC for high res files is in beta revision. Well made CDs aren't too shabby.

Awhile back I asked for and got lots of power amp suggestions, for a second reference and because my beloved and very familiar Classe DR-9s are still in the hospital. They may not recover at least in the foreseeable future. I bought a pair of Benchmark AHB-2 power amps in December and am very happy with them. Although primarily a professional brand, these amps are Absolute Sound and Stereophile class A. As a tool, they do the job I need. Dead flat, near zero distortion, wide bandwidth, phase coherent . . . stuff like that. Presently I am running them bridged for 390 watts into 4 ohms. Their on the fly changeover will allow me to compare various modes of bridged and straight and vertical bi-amping.

The measurement suite is coming together. One corner of my studio is dedicated. There is a pair of PowerPoints on adjacent walls 42" from the corner. A SS-1 smart sub is at the 3-way floor corner, At the 3-way ceiling corner there will be a triangular driver mounting baffle presenting 45° (±) angles to the ceiling, side walls and a 12" wide filler in the vertical corner. The area behind that filler is vented through the floor and the ceiling to de-pressurize the back of the driver under test as well as cool the subwoofer amp nestled into it. The crowing jewel is that this same rig in this corner faces my Jecklin Disk type recording mics which can record test signals from the driver under test or a performer in the same corner for playback through the PPs on the walls at his/her shoulders. Room waves are minimized by geometry and construction. The walls in this corner are outside / building walls topped with 1.5" felted foam insulation. The ceiling is normal drywall. The plywood floor has 3/8" ski-lodge rubber backed carpet squares. It's fairly neutral between reflective and absorptive. The shape of the room should minimize modes. It is an L at 15' wide on each leg. Those walls are sonically porous, made from acoustic tile behind the same 1.5" foam panels. When I get the tools to measure its performance, I hope to confirm my design intentions, which are the most neutral room I can conceive within this given space and my budget constraints. So far it has passed muster with some pretty experienced ears.
Over and out for now.

tomthiel
as always, Thank You for more Thiel Audio history. I look forward to every new installment on Jim and his designs forward to the next Model.Hope you are well and having fun in your hot rod garage/studio.
Happy Listening!

77jovian
Welcome! Thank You for sharing your Thiel Audio journey and systems history.  I can 3rd an  Ayre AX-5 Twenty as being an incredibly musical Reference integrated amp. I may be an owner a well  to mate with my CS 2.4SE by year's end.  Feel free to talk more about your progression from 1.2 to 2.2 then 3.6 models. I look forward in reading more about your musical tastes.
Happy Listening!

Prof - Let's not call it disdain; more like chagrin. Their proposition was not his idea and he didn't expect folks to notice their relative gentleness. He liked what he heard and the 02 opened a door toward where the designs went.

Funny, the CS2.4SE was on my short list, but I never got to hear a pair.

@77jovian Thanks for posting. I, too, have an AX-5. I’m quite certain it’s my last amp. Treo CT was the top of my short list for speaker upgrade (I’ve only heard the standard Treo) but the AX-5 pretty well crushed my budget! I ended up with used CS2.4SE. I was quite happy with those. Now, with Tom Thiel’s XO upgrade, I’m quite certain these are my last speakers. 

Wow, what an impressive thread....
I just stopped in because I will always be a huge Thiel fan.  Here's my story.

My first pair were 1.2's.  I loved them for a couple years and couldn't wait for my income to improve until I could upgrade.  Then I bought 2 2's.  Likewise, I loved them and looked forward to being able to climb the Thiel ladder.  Finally, I was able to afford a pair of 3.6's.
Audio Nirvana!  Unquestionably, the best speakers I ever owned.  I paired them with a Krell KSA 200 and Audio Research LS26.  I used to go to RMAF and listen to the uber-priced goods on display.  Then, I'd go home and power up and realize that my system gave no ground to anything I had heard for under $50k.
But I sold my 3.6's, for a couple reasons:  Jim Thiel died, and I began to have concerns about the company's future and availability of parts/service.  Also, as good as the Krell was, it was an enormously inefficient amp....it wasn't noisy, but there were times I thought I could hear the whir of my electric meter when it was running.  So, I jumped and sold the 3.6's.
Next, I bought Revel Studio 2's.  A darn good speaker, but too big and imposing for my room, and they really needed the Krell as much as the Thiels to sound their best.
Meanwhile, I craved simplicity and moved to an integrated amp, an
Ayre AX 5 Twenty.  A great integrated and I don't see myself going back to separates in the future.
The Revels always seemed to need more breathing room than my listening room allowed and I finally decided to let them go.
After a lot of auditioning, I landed on Vandersteen Treo CT's, my present speakers.  It's a really good system and the Vandy's remind me so much of my Thiels....amazing musical and open sound and ability to listen deep into an ensemble.

As happy as I am with my present system, there are plenty of nights when I close my eyes and recall that Thiel/Krell/AR rig.  Taut, fast, deep, transparent, unbelievable sound stage, wide and tall.  Like my present system with an extra gear.
I don't want to disparage either the Revels or the Vandys...wonderful speaks.  But the 3.6's were the BEST speakers I ever owned and among the very best I've ever heard.

Wow, thank you Tom!

It’s so nice to be able to read a previously hidden history of a pair of speakers that have meant so much to me for decades. And now, given Jim’s disdain, I feel even more guilty liking them so much ;-)

It just goes to show you that even when a talented engineer’s heart isn’t in to it, the talent still comes through.

I’ll be interested in your experiments with the 02!

@Tomthiel - thanks for the trip down memory lane ! The 02 had a rightness about them- paired at the shop with Audionics of Oregon BT-2 and CC2 and a decent Turntable and Grado they would shine !
older brother still has his pair today !!!!

Prof - you might enjoy a little history trip, even if a particular or two might be blurry. The model 02 was a particularly formative step in Thiel's early evolution.
Remember, things were very different in the mid 70s. There was no "high end" yet. Major niches were JBL monitors and Advent coming from academia, geared toward wanna be sophisticates, and Bose promulgating the new paradigm. Thiel's first model 01 was a 10"x 1.5" two way with sealed box equalized bass, 3rd order - very dynamic and efficient (94dB?), but lacking gentleness, nuance and grace. Early advisers counseled that a very different product would attract a very different market and provide experiential input for deciding how to best proceed. We were making up our future on the fly.
Jim designed the 02, somewhat reluctantly, to address these nascent audiophile sensibilities, to be sweet and enveloping and enjoyable. Jim was puzzled by and somewhat resentful that this  experiment was so successful. His heart wasn't really in it, but it hit lots of people's buttons. It was the only product which Jim refused to have reviewed, because he felt it was a form of manipulation of sensibilities, psychological design, re-mixing common ingredients, nothing new. However, as a good engineer, he did give it his full attention. We collectively chose the Peerless silk dome tweeter as it was the darling of the day. The Seas (I think) woofer practically engineered itself to fit the need of second order roll-off and ported bass - so crossover part count was minimal. Our vision was very low cost x high appeal. I designed a cabinet to Jim's enclosed volume specification which left NO / zero waste except sawdust. We even sold the dropouts from the woofer and grille frame rout to recover that cost. The walls were 5/8 particle board to get Jim's volume requirement and yield the palels from standard 49" x 97" sheets. Their retail price in 1977 was $200 / pair in all four standard woods: Walnut, White Oak, Teak and Brazilian Rosewood. That inflates to $885 in today's money. They were a hit.

The 02 served as an influence, a channel to learn what things matter to some listeners who could become our customers. I also have a warm spot in my heart for the 02. The pair coming from my brother is the Rosewood prototype we showed at our first CES - June 1997. The 03 silent prototype we showed there was an 01 in a tower; it never saw daylight. A major reason was the affection and enthusiasm directed toward the 02 by our first public audience. That input was formative and motivating.

The 02 also played a survival function. The late 70s was a financially turbulent time. A particularly wild currency swing caused an imbalance between the German Mark and American Dollar which allowed US products to sell in Germany for even money as in America. So, a competent German distributor came aboard and did a great job selling our fledgling products, 01 and especially 02s, into one of the most sophisticated markets in the world. Italy and England followed. That fact got the attention of some high-profile, top tier East Coast US dealers. They never would have even noticed a new little company from Kentucky, but were eager to take on a company making such good headway in Europe.

The 02 experience caused us to change course in the 03 development. It became a far more sophisticated product than originally imagined. One of the major differences between the 01 and 02 (among everything being different) was the 02 second order vs 01 third order crossover slopes. Second order slopes never exceed 90° phase shift and transition smoothly to the other driver with inverted polarity. There is an ease and rightness about that transition, even though it inverts polarity; there are no abrupt phase shifts or ringing as there are in higher orders. By the way, the newcomer Dave Wilson incorporated the 02 woofer and crossover design into his new "WATT" small monitor. Doesn't that make the Thiel 02 some kind of mythical grandfather or something?

An addendum here is that the 02 precedes our knowledge of pure wire and foil caps, which developed via the rigors of the phase coherent 03. Guess what I'll be doing to my 02s. Do any of you know if that 1" Peerless soft dome tweeter is still supplied?

tomthiel,

Ha...yeah I feel a bit strange lauding them so highly.  They just happen to hit my buttons. 

As I said, at least my pair has an upper mid/lower treble peak of some sort that unfortunately can make them shouty or piercing with the wrong material.  And they won't turn up terribly loud before straining.

But they have such an in-the-room palpability.  And they seem to be a match made in heaven with my Conrad Johnson tube gear and especially with vinyl playback, which I think plays to their strengths and mitigates some of their weaknesses.   I'll have to try pairing them with my subs at some point for fun.

jon_5912 , jafant --

To me it is fairly simple --- when you go to a jazz club or classical concert you hear the music.  If well performed, there is absolutely nothing to create tension, stress, or even untoward focused attention.  You tend to let the music and performance wash over you.  You are immersed in it.

To me, the Thiel and Vandersteen speakers (as well as some planars) do that.  Other speakers do not, except perhaps a few planars.

 Interestingly I grew up in a household with a very large JBL C-30 front loaded corner horn (two 15" woofers and a D175 horn mid-tweeter that dispersed widely via baffles and covered everything from 175hz on up.. It was mono, but music was produced that was effortless and low distortion, with pretty coherent phase given it was handled mostly by a single driver.  It had much of that same "effortless" , relaxing quality you feel.

I’m glad to report that bluestone is local enough and/or intrepid enough to arrange pickup of the 3.5 drivers and crossovers next week. Seems as though he is as fond of these old speakers as I had been. And I’ve had a few. They are most definitely worth sustaining for as long as feasibly possible.  30 year old speakers that sound this good?  Yeah!

The pair of 3.5’s that I gifted to my nephew - with the mids repaired by Rob a while ago - still sound excellent. At low to moderate listening levels I don’t think I’ve had a speaker that put out such impeccable sonics - which may very well be the strongest suit of this model. Yeah, it’s an old design, replacement parts are scarce and growing even scarcer, but they’re still an absolute bargain on the used market.  There’s a pair in California asking $800, and there’s been a pair in New York for well over a year asking $1000.  That would be my personal ceiling given all the drawbacks aforementioned.  

It has been a LOT of fun watching the discourse continue here; the conversations regarding upgrades and tweaking these speakers is interesting as all hell even though I wouldn’t know a first order network from a short order cook. That so many others also find Thiel to be something very special is - forgive the very weak pun - music to my ears. 

Thiel was responsible for me getting back into “hifi” around six years ago with my first pair of 3.5’s. Hard to let that kind of influence just go away. 

Rock on, thread!  Best there is ...

Prof - your interest has inspired me to resurrect and study my 02s which are in transit from Virginia. the o2 is second order like Wilson, ps etc. stock peerless tweeter and normal coils caps resistors woofer and port. Unbraced cabinet, no anti diffraction tricks. A thesis could written on why you like them.

Damn!


I've been switching up my speakers with some others I own, like the Waveform Mach MC monitors and then my old Thiel 02s.


Sometimes I think I shouldn't do this, because every time I throw on the Thiel 02s I'm bewitched.  I think "THAT'S what I'm looking for!"  They have a magic tone, actually a sort of rainbow of tones, where cymbals and horns pop from the mix in shiny metallic, warm hues, guitar strings sparkle and sound EXACTLY like an acoustic guitar, with a woody body, voices sound beautiful, and drum snares sound so organic and have that papery "drum snare" pop and texture, bongos the same thing.  They have this magic ability to give electric keyboards, and electric guitars (no distortion) a beautiful shimmering quality like I hear in real life.   Strings have such beauty and texture.


And they image wonderfully.   Though they do have a slight upper midrange peak that helps give that glow and palpability.  They aren't as coherent as the bigger Thiels.  


But when I hear them I can't help but think "have we really come that far?" in terms of speaker design.


My 2.7s are wonderful and produce a far larger, richer sound.   But in terms of sheer tonal beauty, and in terms of the palpability and sense of life, I find myself leaning towards the 02s!


Then again, leave anything in the system long enough, the flaws come out and it's time to switch.  But...jeeze...there's a reason I just can't sell these things.   "Thiel 02s...girl!...I can't quit you!"

:)

Yes.