I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model? Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
ex-Pass Labs guys do run and operate Coda. Is there a dealer/retailer near you? I am planning a trip to NYC in 2017 and would be grateful for Audio shops around the 5 boroughs and associated NJ.
Jafant, I would recommend an amp capable of a minimum of 300 Watts into 3 Ohms, and I would personally prefer double or more than that. The combination of a sub 3 Ohm minimum impedance and challenging phase angle is likely to make most tube amps less than comfortable. Thiel recommends at least 100 Watts per channel for the 2.4's. Bear in mind that recommendation is based upon quality ss amplification that can double down, and in this case almost double down again! If the amp can't double down as such then you'll need to increase the power output of the 8 Ohms rating accordingly. There is an old audiophile rule of thumb that I have found to be excellent guidance: buy at least twice the minimum power recommended. With speakers like your Thiels if using tubes double that again, and then again. As for your apparent preference for an integrated over separates, there are some things that you might want to consider. While it's true that the case work and especially the face plates are amongst the most expensive parts of amps, so minimizing those costs would appear to value laden. And there is something to be said for shorter signal paths and the elimination of an extra set of interconnects that integrateds provide. On the other hand, I think you'll find that most intergrateds due to reduced size and corresponding heat sink real estate will have to run cooler than their separates counterparts. Very often that is accomplished by reducing the amount of Class A bias and the advantages that can come with that over the now increased Class AB output. Furthermore, you've probably noticed that many manufacturers top of the line pre's come with separate power supplies so as not to contaminate the delicate low level signals that pres work with. If these manufactures find the relatively small power supplies of pre-amps an offense, imagine what kind of insult power amplifiers might induce?
oblgny, jafant, well not exactly. Nelson Pass worked at Phase Linear before co-starting Threshold where he developed amongst other things the acclaimed Stasis and optical bias designs which he sold with the company when the economy had a downturn, though not before licensing the Stasis design (though not application!!!) to Nakamichi. After departing Threshold Nelson Pass started Pass Labs. Some individuals that previously worked at Threshold started Coda. Coda also made gear for Legacy, Sanders Sound and others. Wayne Coburn who was with Threshold as Nelson Pass was leaving Threshold went onto Pass Labs where he is credited with much of the Pass Labs preamps designs. Though not really as much part of the Nelson Pass continuity, Mikael Bladilaius was part of the post NelsonPass Threshold team (including Wayne Coburn) that developed the T series and later Forte' gear, went onto Classe' amongst others.
... Nelson Pass worked at Phase Linear before co-starting Threshold ...
Are you sure? What products did Pass design for Phase Linear? I always thought Phase Linear was Bob Carver's effort, until he sold the company to Pioneer.
^right time frame, wrong specifics. Brain fart. Considering my history of clumsiness, I suspect everyone here's future is quite promising! Best to all, and a very happy Thanksgiving!
Jafant, as for recommendations, well it's just so personal. I've given you considerations from Thiel 2.4's perspective. Your room and the desired volume potential, as well as what you might have proceeding the amplification should be considered. I'm not sure if your dead set on an integrated or if not, have specific preamp considerations in mind such as ss, tubes, balanced single ended, impedance, sensitivity, etc. The recommendations I try to provide should help one avoid technical pitfalls, and narrow down the selection list to a manageable size. After that it still comes down to personal preference. If your more specific I can offer you gear I'd consider based on those parameters and if you like; stuff I like within those parameters.
My room is a living space; 16w x 12d x 12-14h. A tubed pre-amp could be an option? Medium to high volume for certain music/recordings. Balanced/unbalanced does not matter so long as I dig the gear. I listen to Jazz, Rock, Pop and Classical, all to appropriate scale.
jafant, Do you have your Thiel CS 2.4 SEs playing music? Or do you sit in front of them with album / CD in hand pretending that you are listening and smile? Smile?
Amps, CABLES, CD players, TTs; you keep asking for recommendations regarding all this equipment. You have kept this thread going, but do not indicate whether you have a working system. Are you just a dealer nightmare? Or are you actually going to buy some gear and listen to Music? Do you plague dealers with audition after audition and then try to find the gear on the web to get Value? No wonder brick & mortar Salons are going under.
It's the Holidays! Make a decision! BUY some gear! Listen to some Music. Support a dealer that has given you auditions. Buy some gear from someone on this site so they can have a great Holiday.too!
What does your system comprise of? TT, CDP, pre-amp, amp, ICs, speaker cables? Come on; Clue us in already! Just like unsound; what IS your budget?
I've had 2 Audio Research preamps in the past, an LS2b hybrid and an LS 3 solid state. I'm pretty much as big a fan of their preamps as I am of Pass Labs/First Watt Amps which, as you know, I've been heaping praise upon all over this thread.
Pass SS mated with ARC hybrid/tubed preamps are very well suited for one another. IMHO Audio Research preamps are more "eager" than my B. A. T. is, although both are equally excellent. I may be buying another ARC listed here simply because...well, we all know THAT reason.
Also, I've seen a lot of nice ARC preamps here at very reasonable prices from 100% positive members. Like Thiel, preowned ARC's can be a relative bargain considering their quality.
I'm going to wager that your search will end up with at least ONE of my personal faves and I will do an Irish jig when that happens.
No budget. 2 channel system comprising of CD/SACD player, pre-amp and power amp. I may go the integrated amp route if i find one to my liking. Cabling will be top of the line in a synergistic way w/ the gear.
Smiling for now- nkonor. Of course i will support a B&M dealer. I still have a few to visit starting in the new year.
Praise for our gear, speakers and all dealers/retailers, is welcomed- gentle men. I have zero local representation in my locale, so, I travel to visit dealers/retailers. I am a businessman myself, nothing short of respect for our B&M audio operations nation-wide. And yes, unfortunately, the proverbial list is getting shorter. During the 2000's I worked very closely w/ Jay Valentino of Audio Resource in the New Orleans area. He was outstanding- offered in-home demo of gear, generous trade-up program and turned me on to Transparent cabling! Sadly, he is no longer in operation. This has left a void in many ways.
Same answers from us no matter how many times you ask. Krell, Classe’, Ayre, Pass. Older gear in the case of the first two for sonics and all for affordability. Difficult finding them used in the showrooms. Time to pick a path?
I live in Chicago. Have (5) Salons within a (1hr) drive. More within a (2hr) drive. Over the yrs; All have Provided in home demos at some point. Lived in Juneau, AK. Talk about living in an Audio Void. Traveled to Seattle,WA. Once a year to demo gear. Bought my Thiel 3.5s in Silverdale, WA. Air freight to Juneau. Since July 2016; Goodwins High End - Long term demo (2 months) of Spectral 30SV ; Reno HiFi - pair of Pass XA 160.8s ; Which I BOUGHT !
If you're a "serious buyer" w/ a budget & willing to pay shipping ; there are many dealers willing to ship you equipment for Demo. Including dealers on this site.
Budget and Serious Buyer; Are Key!
This is the 21st century; I have my "beefs" w/ all the carriers. Including air freight. It is what it is! But obstacles can be overcome.
NO BUGET = NO SYSTEM
No budget does NOT = Reference System
Intergated in Reference System?
Visit more dealers in 2017 ? You mean this thread will go on for another year? I recommended a used CD player. Your response was that it was too expensive for you. So there is a limit. Again, I ask your BUDGET??
"Cabling will be top of the line in a synergistic way w/ the gear..."Again, I ask your BUDGET??
Use Your Ears and BUDGET. Buy some gear already! Stop talking the talk; walk the walk.Your smile will get bigger when you can actually listen to your Thiels.
In the final analysis, my passion lies within the quest and journey for the gear. I love the thrill of auditioning gear in person. There is zero value, for me, conducting a business transaction w/ dealers/retailers, via phone nor internet w/o an audition.
Take your time, invest your time, it's your money and they're your ears. I've bought quite a few items from Stereo Exchange in NYC without a hitch, it being one of the VERY few stores you can still just walk right into without an appointment. Alan C., and owner David are just nice peeps to do business with. The gear I purchased, 2 pairs of Totem loudspeakers, 2 McIntosh amps etc. were all in stock. (That's just the new stuff I bought there, I've bought used as well.)
Of course, building your reference system around Thiel commands the patience you're demonstrating. I'd probably have bought and sold a good many things already.
Oh yeah, just for the record, I haven't bought anything this week.
Jafant if you’re willing to think a bit outside the box, as I see the same brands being recommended to you repeatedly how about Gryphon? There are some very knowledgeable folks out there who consider their gear amongst the very best SS amplification out there. No US distribution currently but there are some used models on Agon right now and Gryphon does provide service in the US just not sales according to their website.
re: Stereo Exchange in NYC, before the net and Audiogon, et al, my friends and I would get excited as we came towards Presidents day; as Stereo Exchange would have their annual sale, great prices on everything, but especially used gear, and they stood behind their sales. The last time I was there it seemed as though it was mostly home theatre stuff. When I inquired as to why this was, I was told without the home theatre stuff they probably couldn't exist.
I haven't been there in about 8 months or so, but they do indeed offer a lot of home theatre gear which, as you stated, is probably a hefty percentage of their business. Personally speaking I ain't no fan of home theatre nor surround sound.
Last time I was there they had a headphone "bar" upfront and some nice turntables as well. I suggested they start selling vinyl again, putting lp's in the window, etc. (I am a marketing genius, ain't I?). There's still enough 2 channel gear on display to make them worth my while.
Audio Breakthroughs in Manhassett is also a nice place to consider. I bought my Bluesound Vault2 there. It's a tad funkier than SE but they're cool peeps as well. It's not very far from Manhattan and there's ample parking in the rear. They even list used gear here sometimes. SE favors eBay for some reason although they used to list here as well.
However, to trade in and buy SE has been my choice for the past few years.
Funny: I traded in a pair of Dynaudio Contours to help fund a pair of Totem Hawks a while back. I bought the Dynaudios from a fellow member in Manhattan a little earlier on. A day or two passed and I received an email from David explaining that his tech had gone over the speakers after hearing a knock in the cabinets - something I never noticed myself. His tech removed around 5 plastic dinosaurs stuffed in the ports.
Now I know why many listings here contain the "from a smoke free, child free home" disclaimer.
Thank You- oblgny, unsound, jond and nkonor, for your dealer/retailer shout-outs!
I have never paid a trip to Chicago. It, too, is on my must-visit list. Spring/Summer only :)
Good to learn that our major U.S. cities are continuing to represent the B&M Audio operations. I know about Decibel Audio (FWIW). I have read about Qunitessence and Essential Audio, never a poor word.
I have found a Krell dealer in SE Florida, much closer than the NE or Mid-West. Hope to make that trip as well in 2017.
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