Thiel Owners
It might be true. But, you know what they say about opinions. Unless, one really knows the listener and their perceptions and their experience, or there is consensus from an adequate sample size, I suggest prioritizing the objective information first. If an amp manufacturer can deliver the goods into a low impedance, they will brag about it. On the other hand, specs and measurements are only prerequisites for narrowing down the suitable prospective choices. After that, there are elements of the sound that at this time escape those criterion. I suggest dealing with what we do know before venturing into the unknown. Not doing so is tantamount to traveling to an unknown destination in the dark. |
@thoft, Hold on. You might not actually prefer these to the 3.5’s. The 3.5’s will actually play deeper in the bass and do so with greater cohesion. The 3.7’s are better at dealing with the lobbing issues, both are more dynamic, especially the 7.2’s. The cost of amplification will certainly go up with either. On the other hand, replacement parts are much more available than are for the 3.5s. The BHK 250’s : https://www.psaudio.com/products/bhk-signature-amplifier/#tab-specs aren’t rated into 2 Ohms, being " 2 Ohm ....stable into musical transients" only suggests that the amp won’t go into oscillation when temporarily confronted with such a load. Same for the M700’s: https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-m700-power-amplifier/#tab-specs Class D amps are not typically comfortable with sub 4 Ohm loads, The BHK 300’s seem up to the task, but not especially enjoying it: https://www.stereophile.com/content/ps-audio-bhk-signature-300-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurement... These later Thiel’s don’t just visit these lower impedances; they live there: https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs72-loudspeaker-measurements https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs37-loudspeaker-measurements @Thieliste has given excellent advice recommending some of the best amps for these speakers. The Momentum amps jump to mind as well. The Gryphon’s are probably the best amps I’ve ever heard, but the are not inexpensive(!), and the US distribution has been inconsistent in the past, new ownership seemingly following the originators design philosophy might change that, but the possibility of having to ship these heavy amps back to Denmark is a bit daunting to me. The Krells seem to need to be recapped a bit more often than some others and that’s not cheap either, though IMHO worth it. The Luxman specs are somewhat ambiguous. |
My audire forte can do 2 ohms 400 watts but problem is that the parts for the amp is so rare I don’t want something to go wrong and then it might as well be paperweight. Anyone got recommendations for amps I can find used under 10k for the 3.7 cause I’m probably more likely to get the amp first than the speakers. |
@thoft There's no way your going to drive 7.2s properly with this Adcom, you need to find Krell FPB 400CX for 7.2s.You'd better look for 3.7s much easier do find, best amp for this model is by far Gryphon Diablo 300.I might buy a pair of Thiels for the fourth time but i still need to think about it. |
@thoft, the Adcom GFA - 5800 is rated as 400 Watts into 4 Ohms: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/206141/Adcom-Gfa-5800.html?page=11#manual While it might very well be up to the task, one can see that it's not quite up to doubling down from 8 Ohms to 4 Ohms and there isn't a 2 Ohm rating. Unlike your 3.5's these model Thiel's have sub 3 Ohm loads: https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs37-loudspeaker-measurements https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs72-loudspeaker-measurements |
@thoft, OK, then you might not need the pre-amp part. As the eq only has single ended inputs and outputs, I wouldn’t be too concerned with the DAC’s balanced output performance. The Adcom GFA-5800 has a gain of 29 dB for full output via it’s RCA inputs. The equation for sensitivity escapes me for the moment (perhaps one of the other contributors can chime in) but an output of about 2 V ( 2V being the redbook standard, and 2.2 V the standard for HDCD, though for some reason quite a few DAC manufacturers seem to ignore these standards) or less will probably do. Many of today’s DAC’s have 32 bits or more capability, so long as the DAC has a volume control, and doesn’t have an especially high output, you’ll have bit’s to spare even with most hi rez material, with such a DAC there’s no worry of bit stripping due to reduced volume output. Though somewhat more unlikely: too low of an output from the DAC will prohibit the amp from offering full output. While some DAC’s offer eq functionality, most don’t have the 12 db range to adequately substitute for Thiel’s own eq. If you could find a DAC with the needed eq prerequisites, you could reopen the consideration of going balanced. But be warned, that even though the Adcom GFA’s rather unique reduced to 26 dB gain for it’s balanced inputs, the output of many if not most DAC’s balanced connections are often double that of it’s RCA outputs, and the concurrent required volume reduction could lead to a greater chance of bit stripping. If your using Tidal as your main streaming service, it's probably worth it to consider MQA capability. |
I bought a pair of viewpoints off ebay several months ago but when they arrived the box had been abused and one was broken. One of the tweeters was shot so I bought another only to have it immediately go bad. I measured the voltage output and it turns out the crossover has a problem where the tweeter is getting the same voltage as the woofer at low frequencies. I need to either fix the crossover and get a third tweeter or throw the mess out. I'm thinking maybe I can combine the parts from both speakers to make a single functional pair. We'll see. |
As I wrote about in my own thread, I now have a Bryston 4B3 on loan from a friend. I've tried it on my Spendor speakers, Joseph Audio Perspectives, and soon enough will try them on my Thiel 2.7s. I've wanted to hear the Thiels powered by beefy solid state for quite a while so this should be fun. Though I'm betting the ultimate outcome will be similar to the other speakers. (Hint: I wanted to hug my tube amps afterwards!) |
After having my broken viewpoint sitting on the floor taken apart for a few months I decided to buy the single powerplane on ebay for $135. I'm curious if it has the same innards as the Viewpoints or if the crossover will be a little different. I've gotta think the box volume is the same and they're both meant to go against the wall so any difference won't be much. I'll probably just stick the powerplane innards in the viewpoint unless I for some strange reason have a chunk of free time and energy to mess with trying to fix the viewpoint crossover. Unlikely. |
The thiels are alive and loving the 450 watts of class a/b amplification. https://youtu.be/HF2m5y-QQFE |
prof Thank You- Audio is a journey indeed. It is not a sprint, it is a half-marathon to full on marathon. Regarding AYRE, the AX-5, especially in Twenty Series form will yield 90% of it counterpart separates. Unless one needs the extra power provided per separate Power amp or wishes to spend an additional $8K retail, the Integrated is damn impressive. Happy Listening! |
All I wanted to give a shout out to Panel member jab.My amp is sitting on one of his incredible stands. Fit and finish are second to none. Craftsmanship is beautiful and striking! If you guys are considering an Audio rack or Amp stand, look for further. I will receive a second stand for my spinner soon. Happy Listening! |
rtbs70 My pleasure. You certainly own very nice gear. Take the time, at your leisure, to peruse this informative thread. There are several 3.6 and power-point owners here. My aspect or niche' is Cables/Power Cords.We all know that an integrated or pre-amp is the Heart of a system.Cables/Power Cords represent the Extremities. Careful matching and synergy will take a good system to excellent. And an excellent system to outstanding! I have 35 years in the gear and 48 years as a Music lover. Happy Listening! |
jafant, Thank you for the nice welcome. I started with CS2s 30 years ago and upgraded to 3.6s 15-20 years ago. They are the best purchase I have ever made! Last 10 years I have added MCS1 and 1.5s for movies and was considering Powerpoints to add ATMOS ceiling speakers. I started with Audible Illusions preamp, Thorens TT, and PS Audio amp but have just ordered a Monolith HTP-1 AV processor to use with my Olive digital player and Sunfire Signature/CInema Grand amps. I mostly listen to classic and alternative rock music but enjoy occasional jazz. |
Cabling auditioning is next. Stay tuned. Not interested in whatever-the-cables, but they will at least get sound coming out of your speakers! I admit I find your situation baffling. You've been advising others here for years about cables and equipment, without it seems having a working system. Or do I have that wrong about your system? What's been the hold up? |
jafant... Like, wow - you finally committed to an amp! Congratulations. Checked your system out in the Virtual Systems section - nice digs. The 2.4’s look remarkably more spiffy in a wood finish than plain ol’ black like the ones I have up for grabs here. (Again.) Most of my current listening has been relegated to streaming on Qobuz since I’m spending a lotta time searching for suitable employment on the interweb. (I can use it as well on my main stereo but that’s over the hills and far away downstairs and my computer ain’t.) I actually hooked up the 2.4’s again about a week ago to see if time had eroded any of my original observations. I still find that the imaging is very tight and the highs are not as “sparkly” as the other models I’ve owned. Bass response is excellent and just true. C’est la vie. |
@jafant Not sure what I’m doing with the Thiels. They are great for speech intelligibility, may put them in my 2nd HT system. I was using Audioquest no frills cables, got them on sale. They are soft sounding. I have MIT terminator 2’s and MIT Biwire terminator 4’s. They were too bright and resolving to be a good match for the Thiels. I love the tube pre and SS amp combo. First Watt amps look good and now that I have a more sensitive speaker I may be able to try one. Currently using a bryston 4bsst. Way more power than I need, never see my entire system pull more than 4 amps, judged by my Monster conditioner. |
I just bought a pair of Tekton Encores (4ohm) to replace my 20 yo Thiel 2.3’s with upgraded coax drivers (the upgrades made all the difference in the world). Breaking in the Encores now. Adjusted for inflation the prices is about the same. The Thiels had an edge that was difficult to tame. A tubed preamp is necessary. I’ll keep y’all updated. |
