The science of opinion ...

Yes indeed grandpa. Mysterious ways 😍

Ohhhh..... so you are one of the spies on Audio Subjective... I see

thyname,

"When I pointed this out on a FB group.......................then he called me an idiot, threw a graph in my face, etc. etc."

"And I like Ethan. I have blocked many obnoxious fake scientists and puppets in Facebook, but I have not blocked Ethan. I will never block Ethan, no matter what. I find my exchanges with him very amusing."

Love really moves in mysterious ways.

Along the same lines, in just a month will be 150th anniversary of Fanny Pistor’s contract. Don't say you did not learn anything on this thread. Cheers!

You like Ethan ....
How many times have you posted in a certain FB group angrily about him, not one that he is a member I might add, with cut and paste of other groups? ...

And who is Tommy O'Brian?

This thread just gets names added.

Which one is grandpa?

Sorry grandpa. Close your eyes 😘

Love is in the air.

And I like Ethan. I have blocked many obnoxious fake scientists and puppets in Facebook, but I have not blocked Ethan. I will never block Ethan, no matter what. I find my exchanges with him very amusing. And he does not block me, whatever I tell him. It must be a thing 😉

And how do I behave in Facebook Tommy? What have I done to you? I have never said anything negative about your Cherry amps. 

Got it Tommy O’Brian !

Knowing how you behave on Facebook, I will pass thank you. If I did, you would be running to Facebook in 5 minutes to tell Ted, I know the obsession you and him have with Ethan.

Please share your ASR forums handle. Or your real life name. Thank you

The majority of people that buy audiophile equipment read forums, but they don’t post in them. Most people who can afford this stuff are of above average intelligence. My posts are not for the ostriches, they are for everyone else .... if you are going to watch a train wreck, it is best not to be on the train.

dill946 posts11-08-2019 11:10pmOP- " Instead of reflecting on how many posts I have made in 9 days, perhaps reflect on who comes to this particular thread (and my 5 stages one). While some came in, made a comment and left, the usual suspects, the real prolific posters with many many thousands of posts, who pshaw the very notion of these two threads, are the ones repeatedly posting in them. Why are a few paragraphs of text so threatening?"

- Way too many words, in such a short time, that mean less to the masses than to the author. Nobody has left, just watching the train wreck, can’t look away ...

Perhaps they were stringing words together just fine, but you did not understand? And just who have you met?


Copy/paste ... no one that has a technical background and experience in this field needs to cut and paste. Conjecture changes by the day, facts don’t.


Thank you again for proving the validity of this thread.

thyname390 posts11-08-2019 10:50pmObviously. But which one is the question. The main honcho, or someone who just copy/ paste them?

I am pretty sure if I spent a day or two on those forums, I would have enough material to copy / paste their  (likely also copy / paste from someone else), and spread it around all Internet audio groups. That’s what these guys do. Meet one of them in person, and you will see. I have. And they can barely put a few words together.

OP- " Instead of reflecting on how many posts I have made in 9 days, perhaps reflect on who comes to this particular thread (and my 5 stages one). While some came in, made a comment and left, the usual suspects, the real prolific posters with many many thousands of posts, who pshaw the very notion of these two threads, are the ones repeatedly posting in them. Why are a few paragraphs of text so threatening?"

- Way too many words, in such a short time, that mean less to the masses than to the author. Nobody has left, just watching the train wreck, can't look away ...

Obviously. But which one is the question. The main honcho, or someone who just copy/ paste them?

I am pretty sure if I spent a day or two on those forums, I would have enough material to copy / paste their shit (likely also copy / paste from someone else), and spread it around all Internet audio groups. That’s what these guys do. Meet one of them in person, and you will see. I have. And they can barely put a few words together.

thyname,

We are all getting old at the same rate. According to stories that people write here, I got an impression I am trailing a little behind most.

It seems to me that, once people get really old, they start obsessing over unimportant things. Like minutia of reproduction of fake sounds or snatching the seat in public transportation.

He definitely sounds like one of Amir's minions.

So... who are you @atdavid? What is your real Facebook name? Or at least, can you share your handle on ASR forums? I can clearly tell you are not Ethan, but I am pretty sure you are one of the other Masters

I laughed when I read this. I had a high end (at the time) Fisher Boom Box (no really, they had some good ones, this one even had a phono input), that I had lent to my girlfriend. When we broke up, it was "displeasure of asking for it back, or just forget about it".  I chose to forget about it, but years later regretted it. It was a piece of nostalgia I wish I would have kept. I never regretted breaking up :-)

glupson2,813 posts11-08-2019 9:31pm

"...tiny pro speakers on kiddie stools from Walmart..."

For years, my only system was a $100 boombox on a Walmart stool. It seems that those soul saviors had gotten me way before I heard about them.

Most of the music I hear comes from an Internet radio via $50-100 Bluetooth speakers (iHome Arc and JBL Charge 3) or through a Walkman driving earphones. At least I have a few pairs of earphones. Today is a little different, I turned on amplifier and music server which, again, has been playing Internet radio. I can tell the difference in sound, but I cannot tell you one is better than the other one when music actually plays.

That’s OK glupson. We’ll all get old someday. Enjoy as long as it lasts. Cheers. Good night

You are just proving my point thecarpathian ... you are in this thread, a thread you pshaw, but you have to get your statement in. I mean how could you, of all people .... be possibly fooled by your own ears and brain to convince yourself you are hearing or not hearing something. You could never fool yourself like that.

I actually find that you truly believe that mildly amusing. I don't perceive you to be ignorant, and perhaps you are being shilled, but I don't follow your purchasing decisions, so I can't say and how you spend your money is completely your choice, but you are fooling yourself. If I have any goal at all, it is to help other people not fool themselves.

I also find it amusing as you and others attempt to paint me with a broad brush, just like you paint everyone else that dares to disagree with you and does it with passion (and backs it up with knowledge).  You won't find me putting down turntables, whether I find them technically inferior or not, I have enough knowledge about psychoacoustics to know that their imperfections in signal reproduction can be aurally pleasing. I won't be saying all amplifiers sound the same, both because I have heard differences in controlled tests, and also because I have measured differences with complex real loads. Though, within a range of amplifiers and speakers, it is probably effectively true, hence why blind tests have shown little ability to differentiate.

I won't claim that signal transmission is at all affected in a streamer by a cable for any modern competent USB or ethernet DAC, and I will call out any claim that bit timing makes a differences in those scenarios (but can prove other timing never mentioned may), because, it is just not true in any modern DAC, both because they don't time off USB or Ethernet, and because data loss in a home environment is so close to 0 as to be 0.  Similarly, I will take on any "technie" that does understand that noise injection, even via Ethernet can be an issue.


I am also going to call out anyone that claims one particular fuse is going to make an improvement in every piece of equipment ... because I know enough about and have enough experience designing audio equipment of various types to know that what potentially improves an amplifier could make a pre-amplifier or a source worse, and even what makes an amplifier better at low volume is different from what may help at high volume.  I will maintain a healthy skepticism as well about cables, at least interconnnects and speaker cables, again due to claims of "always improves", given how varied source/loads are in audio, that no cable vendor will shine light on their claims with blind tests, that actual blind tests don't show differences .... AND .... because I have lost count of the number of times an "audiophile" buddy has claimed they could clearly hear a difference .... and then I proved they didn't by taking away their ability to know what product they were listening to. Clearly that statement does not apply to turntable cables who can massively impact cartridge loading, that time a better power cable was cutting through corrosion on an IEC receptacle and the odd EMI issue with cheap cables.

It is a popular refrain with products with questionable value that "we can't measure everything", we don't understand all the measurements, the ear is complex, the brain is complex, and similar refrains including the usual misquoting or wrong application of psycho-acoustic research or just right out false-hood (sensitivity to phase being a common one).  When one discusses how we as human's perceive sound, for the most part, they are absolutely correct. We don't know how to take acoustic measurements and translate them into how a human will perceive them with high accuracy. We have some good ideas, but given human-human variance, we will never have one view of perfection. The one good thing we have a pretty good handle on is the limits of human hearing, critically limits on perception of sounds both on their own, and masked by louder sounds.


However, when we are talking purely electrical signals, which covers amplifiers, cables, power, the noise on a turntable (and what it can mask), etc. we can measure with exceptional resolution and accuracy, think of what we are able to measure in the scientific field and what level of resolution and accuracy that must require. So when someone says " we don't know what to measure", that is absolutely true when you are trying to compare the euphonics of a turntable and a 24/192 DAC, and true when viewed for what MFRs share with customers, or quite frankly, what is possible with the equipment that many boutique companies have. But to say we can't measure the impact of a cable or fuse and how that is going to correlate to human perception is just not true ..... what it is is convenient.

thyname,

Most of the music I hear comes from an Internet radio via $50-100 Bluetooth speakers (iHome Arc and JBL Charge 3) or through a Walkman driving earphones. At least I have a few pairs of earphones. Today is a little different, I turned on amplifier and music server which, again, has been playing Internet radio. I can tell the difference in sound, but I cannot tell you one is better than the other one when music actually plays.

Me too. A long, long time ago. But I grew up.

Are you going back to the boom box now @glupson ? Might as well. We cannot possibly tell the difference in a scientific, controlled ABX test 😂😉

"You can’t even get the sentence correct..."

"His sentence was grammatically incorrect, that’s true. But it was very close. And I think it shows he was trying."

Guys, do not forget it may be someone's third or fourth language.

"...tiny pro speakers on kiddie stools from Walmart..."

For years, my only system was a $100 boombox on a Walmart stool. It seems that those soul saviors had gotten me way before I heard about them.

+100 @thecarpathian !!

Pretty sure fake David was sent here from Ethan or ASR forums like a Terminator to save our poor souls from the evil.

These guys are in a mission. They will not stop until all of us have cheap $50 China DACs, tiny pro speakers on kiddie stools from Walmart, Crown amps from Amazon, zip cord for cables, and Chromecast for streamers.
Their mission is precisely that: burning down the entire audio industry to the ground.

atdavid, so now you're going to tell ME what I mean? A very succinctly wrote what I meant. It can be said one's perception is one's reality, Bla bla bla.....When I add a tweak to my system and I put on a song I know inside and out and hear a subtle nuance I've never heard before time and time again, yeah, I KNOW what I'm hearing. You are just another guy in a long line of guys that came before you trying to save the audio souls of those you perceive as ignorant, fooling themselves, being shilled etc....simply because we don't require reams of scientific evidence to back up why we hear what we hear, and if there is none forthcoming, we can't possibly be hearing it. 'Threatening'?? "Afraid of'?? What a joke. Amusing and mildly annoying, you bet.

dill,

9 days and I have already received quite a few personal messages. I am quite happy to make friends with people I would want to be friends with in real life. 23.5? ... geoff does that in an hour.


Instead of reflecting on how many posts I have made in 9 days, perhaps reflect on who comes to this particular thread (and my 5 stages one). While some came in, made a comment and left, the usual suspects, the real prolific posters with many many thousands of posts, who pshaw the very notion of these two threads, are the ones repeatedly posting in them. Why are a few paragraphs of text so threatening?

The OP has been here for 9 days now with an average of 23.5 posts per day. With all that typing, one would think you are making friends and influencing people. I think that might not be the case ...  

The person that is most out of their depth on here is you. You try to bully people with technical terms that frankly you misuse and I (and others) certainly don't think you understand. You cannot even back up the most simple claims, i.e. about impedance matching when asked to explain and try to deflect claiming attacks and stolen patent issues.  You have shown 0 understanding of "complex equations" and just use terms like that to bully others, or in attempts to look erudite, sort of like now using  "Godel’s incompleteness theorem" on an audio forum. I mean really dude, what sort of person does that???


How about instead of spewing attempted math/physics philosophy, you actually communicate something that shows you have any level of true expertise in anything related to audio. I have seen you put down recognized experts in this field, but from where I am sitting, that now just looks like sour grapes.


You don't even get irony .... which is not at all a surprise. My statement was ridiculous, just like the one that proceeded it.

teo_audio1,215 posts11-08-2019 6:28pm

You mean what think you perceive that you hear?

You are way out of your depth, on a complex set of equations and conditions that you know little to nothing about.

Which means you are likely to never get it. The intellectual version of Godel’s incompleteness theorem.

You can’t even get the sentence correct, nor realize it, after you pressed post.

I have no confidence in the confidence levels reported by the participants in that article.

His sentence was grammatically incorrect, that’s true. But it was very close. And I think it shows he was trying. I already asked my doc for more of everything but he felt the massive amounts of medications were making me moody.

geoffkait,

"Does it help to have somebody to talk to?"

Crazy as it may seem, I come here so I do not have to talk to anyone. I come here for calmness of the place. Remainder of my days I am chased by people who want me to order them around.

"I’m thinking of asking the doctor to increase my medication."

Double the lithium.

On a completely different note, what was the word? Verbosity?

He probably doesn’t understand.

You mean what think you perceive that you hear?

Here's getting back on the topic of The Science of Opinion-
I am of the opinion that I don't require science to back up what I know I hear.

Thank you glubson. How does it feel to have to come here? Does it help to have somebody to talk to? I don’t know. I felt better when I was locked up in the hospital. I’m thinking of asking the doctor to increase my medication. I’m taking seven different medications now but they don’t seem to be doing any good.

"...for whatever reason I seem to be on a roll today."

For once, you are correct. Note to youself: put it down in your calendar, occassion like this does not happen often.

Good news!

The bird with a machine gun lasted only a few seconds.

I disagree with male vs. female German Shepherd talk, though.

Three more years and we are there. Hold on tight.

What comes after audio forums?

>>>I hate to judge too harshly but I’d say it keeps the people here who have nothing to say. But they sure as shootin’ like to bellyache! Everybody wants to be a facilitator. I’m from the future and only come back here for some kind of advanced ideas, but as there don’t seem to be any it looks like I’m here for the laughs. Audio forums died out in 2022.

I rest my case your honor!

Maybe. Are you Bozo the Clown?

geoff are you a vampire?

uberwaltz
May as well keep this thread open, at least it contains the crazies in one easy to find area.

Now if we could only keep em here permanently......

>>>>I hate to judge too harshly but I’d say it keeps the people here who have nothing to say. But they sure as shootin’ like to bellyache! Everybody wants to be a facilitator. I’m from the future and only come back here for some kind of advanced ideas, but as there don’t seem to be any it looks like I’m here for the laughs. Audio forums died out in 2022.

May as well keep this thread open, at least it contains the crazies in one easy to find area.

Now if we could only keep em here permanently......
🤔🤔