I’ve replaced all 5 of the SR BLACK fuses in my system with the new SR BLUE fuses. Cold, out of the box, the BLUE fuses stomped the fully broken-in SR BLACKS in a big way. As good as the SR BLACK fuses were/are, especially in comparison with the SR RED fuses, SR has found another break-through in fuses.
1. Musicality ... The system is totally seamless at this point. Its as if there is no system in the room, only a wall to wall, front to back and floor to ceiling music presentation with true to life tonality from the various instruments.
2. Extension ... I’ve seemed to gain about an octave in low bass response. This has the effect of putting more meat on the bones of the instruments. Highs are very extended, breathing new life into my magic percussion recordings. Vibes, chimes, bells, and triangles positioned in the rear of the orchestra all have improved. I’ve experienced no roll-off of the highs what so ever with the new BLUE fuses. Just a more relaxed natural presentation.
3. Dynamics ... This is a huge improvement over the BLACK fuses. Piano and vibes fans ... this is fantastic.
I have a Japanese audiophile CD of Flamenco music ... the foot stomps on the stage, the hand clapping and the castanets are present like never before. Want to hear natural sounding castanets? Get the BLUE fuses.
4. Mid range ... Ha! Put on your favorite Ben Webster album ... and a pair of adult diapers. Play Chris Connor singing "All About Ronnie," its to die for.
Quick .... someone here HAS to buy this double album. Its a bargain at this price. Audiophile sound, excellent performance by the one and only Chris Connor. Yes, its mono ... but so what? Its so good you won’t miss the stereo effects. If you’re the lucky person who scores this album, please post your results here.
Where the RED fuses took about 20 hours to sound their best, and the BLACK fuses took upwards of 200 hours of total break-in, the BLUE fuses sounded really good right out of the box ... and that’s without doing anything about proper directional positioning. Not that the BLUE fuses don’t need breaking in, they do. The improvement continues through week three. Its a gradual break-in thing where each listening session is better than the last.
Everything I described above continues to break new ground in my system as the fuses continue breaking in. Quite honestly, I find it difficult to tear myself away from the system in order to get things done. Its truly been transformed into a magical music machine. With the expenditure of $150.00 and a 30 day return policy there’s really nothing to lose. In my system, its like upgrading to a better pre amp, amp, CD player or phono stage. Highly recommended.
Kudos to Ted Denney and the entire staff at SR. Amazing stuff, guys. :-)
Frank
PS: If you try the SR BLUE fuses, please post your results here. Seems the naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers.
This can only tilt in favour to the result of expectation bias for one way, and this result has no valid outcome
As to who it is that truly exhibits expectation bias, I submit it is you George. You seem to be painfully fearful of actually hearing a difference to the extent that you refuse to try it for yourself, lest you end up hearing what we all along have been enjoying. You could have solved this so long ago that it strains credulity. The fact that you continue speaks volumes.
BTW I asked this before. Where is Synergistic Research’s back up comments to all the fuser’s claims here that have been disputed?
As I said before if any product is discussed here on Audiogon and the manufacturer is a member, nearly 100% that member (manufacturer) will have something to say to back his product.
But in this case, Synergistic’s silence is deafening! legality reasons perhaps??
No, it wasn't done in a blind test. It was sighted. But as you already know, I don't subscribe to blind test parlor tricks, and I need to see what I'm doing when changing fuses.
Be forewarned, any amount of protests of "the need to be blind tested" will fall on (literally) deaf ears.
Thank you. One other question if I may. The "not subtle" difference you are reporting, is this something you can or did hear in a blind test, or sighted?
@gdhal If you've read through this thread (and the other fuse threads) you'd know the answer as I've stated it several times.
In short: For two years I was never a believer in fuse directionality. Out of boredom, I changed them. My "enjoyment", as you put it, was increased. Recessed highs were now as pronounced as the rest of the sound. A certain, hard to ascertain phasey quality was gone, replace with solid imaging and more definition and detail. There was also an increase in what can be described as strength and impact with the music.
The difference is not subtle.
I had the same experience with three different brands. There's a 50/50 chance they'll go in the right way and easy to listen for the "clues" once you know what to listen for.
As to how you could be convinced that a better made fuse can benefit you when correctly oriented, that's a tall order my friend. The only answer is for you to try it for yourself. Nothing short of that will satisfy, as has so far been demonstrated.
The function of my questions aren't to derail the train of Fuser Fandom, it simply seems, and is, logical to ask about how and why a relatively expensive and excitedly oversold fuse works. To take offense at this question seems the lazy way out, as answering it could provide useful information for anybody interested. So, how does the fuse work its supposed magic?
I'd be appreciative if you could/would answer the following questions.
How does fuse and/or wire directionality change/effect your "enjoyment" of listening to music?
Please speculate, in what way(s) should someone who doesn't believe in wire/fuse directionality, such as myself, expect to benefit if fuses and/or wire is oriented correctly?
That’s a very good point. So far, the naysayers have demonstrated no function other than to derail a thread on fuses. Basically, all the arguments have been put forth with no resolution so it degrades into an acrimonious side show.
When something new or novel is proposed that was overlooked, silly criteria are put forth as a demand for "valid" results. That, and the incessant posting of the same thing over and over as if it’s expected to work by wearing someone down, like a Chinese water torture. Drip, drip, drip....
It’s one thing to have an opinion on something. To proffer it and debate a bit, but this is nothing more than professional trolling.
There’s no avenue of recourse other than to flat out ignore them and simply speak around them, as one would do at a social event, pretending not to see them.
I’m serious here. Why is it SO IMPORTANT for otherwise normal audiophiles to go waaay out of their way to try and convince naysayers? Naysayers are really not (rpt not) in this game for the reasons everyone seems to believe. People seem to totally misjudge the little scamps. They act so sincere and innocent like. As the dude in Field of Dreams sez, “Built it and they will come.” 🤠
Everyone should hold everyone accountable to not make things personal and ugly. One of the ugly things about this thread though is in many cases I only see that happen when the offender is on the other side of the debate.
I can't help that that's just how your perceiving it, how else would you fuser's like to be called, maybe you prefer v**d**'ist? I know Geoff does, as it his avatar.
You are correct I have never attempted to explain why they make the difference they do , in my system, to my ears, in my room.
NOT ONCE have I ever said that you just have to trust me and rush out and try them, NOT ONCE!
All I have ever done is to state the effects in my system, in my room to my ears.
I believe others should be free to also make the same decisions based on their own system, room, hearing etc.
Of course you are free to state your opinions and thoughts as is everybody else. What you are NOT free to do, is to harass and abuse said proponents just because you do not agree with their view or beliefs!
And you have never given one iota of explanation technical or mystical, to what you believe is the reason for you to say these fuses do magical things for an audio system when installed, and also the direction they are installed. You just say trust me because I said so.
Odd that Synergistic Research won't back any of you "fusers" here either.
Like I've said before usually when a product is vigorously discussed as it is here, a manufacture will nearly always try to set the record straight by posting what he thinks, but it seems not this thread as there are legal implications to be considered.
Legitimate question for you. Just seeking your *opinion* now, and that cannot be right or wrong.
Lets assume you are entirely correct on the technical aspects/merits of fuses. Lets further assume you are able to hear a difference, and have elected to use said fuse(s).
How does this change your "enjoyment" of listening to music?
uberwaltzIs there any chance we can steer this discussion back on topic or is George determined to get it locked by mods.... Again!
Once again, you’ve got that wrong. I’m giving a view point to the members here who have no technical knowledge that are thinking about blowing 150 bucks on a fuse that has the same sound quality as a $2 fuse.
But the fact is that mains fuses have no difference in any character of sound when they are in a AC mains path as that mains changes it's direction 60 x a second. So any ***** can see, that direction changing of a fuse is wishful thinking, and after spending $150 on a $2 fuse, as Ralph (Atmasphere) has so aptly name it, it's "Expectation Bias"
I’m afraid George and some others are giving real skeptics a bad name. You know what real skeptics are, they are intellectually honest people who are genuinely curious and will actually try to get the bottom of things, Fuses or whatever. A real skeptic is able to weigh all the evidence and may come to change his mind based on the evidence. The spectacle we’re witnessing here, by contrast, has no relation to real skepticism. It’s pseudo skepticism and bullying in its pure state. It’s minds that are made up. The pseudo skeptics actually assume an outcome of a test BEFORE the test even takes place. Hel-loo! In fact, if I can be so bold, some of these guys even make pseudo skeptics look bad. Other naysayers here must be cringing. Come on, people!
George Yet again Who are the awesome foursome? In your humble opinion of course Put up or well you know what. Your continued barrage of shouts of "snake oil" will end up being your forum undoing......
"Snake Oil" that’s all fuse direction change is. You "awesome foursome" believe the "snake oil" about fuses and also I see the other "snake oil" product, Synergistic Research HFT's
@fleschler never said it happens with a fuse direction change (with regards to the field generated around the transformer). He stated the results were similar in the improvement of the sound.
fleschler195 posts04-13-2018 5:16amThe differences my friends and I have heard in the directionality of SR fuses is tantamount to the differences heard in equipment with polarized A/C plugs (namely older CD players). Directionality of insertion is quite obvious. I have not done a scientific survey of why that exists, only that it is audibly significant (VERY).
Then your not letting the EE technical side function very well, think about it?? If you reverse the two pin figure 8 mains plug on those early CD players what are you doing??
One way your sending active to the primary winding of the transformer that may start on the outside and then neutral (which is in Australia is at earth potential) goes goes to the inner part of the transformer. Then if you reversed that CD’s figure 8 mains plug the opposite happens. Of course there is some difference in the field generated around the transformer!
THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH A FUSE DIRECTION CHANGE!!!! And it pure "snake oil" to say it does.
Look, mapman, if you want to argue the least you could do is not put words in my mouth. I did not say throw out all the data points I don’t like. I said throw away the handful of negative results when there are 75,000 positive results worldwide for ALL FUSES since they first came out. You know, from satisfied users. See the difference? The handful of negative results are outliers. You happen to be one of the very few who reported negative results, when we limit the results to those on this forum. There was you and Wolfman. Did I miss anybody? Besides, as I said Don’t take it so so personally. 😬 But please don’t try to tell the rest of us Fuses don’t work or that we can’t hear.
GK that is absolutely correct. The problem is your previous stated desire to throw out the data points that you don’t like, joking or not.
All data points are subject to bias like the expectation bias possible with all those paying a huge premium for a fuse or the bias of those with a business association with the vendor who might also be getting product to eval for free or at a significant discount.
Also a random sample of data points is needed to draw any conclusion. There is nothing to establish that the sample of data points represented by poster views on a thread like this is random or large enough to be representative of the general population.
Your theory is those who report here to have heard a worthwhile difference is the norm and those who do not are outliers. That’s true perhaps but only within the context of this thread.
Also you appear to claim knowledge of some larger scoped study involving thousands of users. Please provide a reference to that if so.
The differences my friends and I have heard in the directionality of SR fuses is tantamount to the differences heard in equipment with polarized A/C plugs (namely older CD players). Directionality of insertion is quite obvious. I have not done a scientific survey of why that exists, only that it is audibly significant (VERY).
The results should be reproducible. I.e. produced INDEPENDENTLY by another person or persons on a different system(s). Ideally, many other INDEPENDENT persons and systems. This reproducibility helps minimize the affect of any errors on the part of persons conducting the test, test system and anything else that could produce erroneous results.
Once the IAEA stepped in and forbade the use of certain metals in audio tubes, the sound changed for the worse. Decades of refinement and exacting attention to specs helped some but the sound of those tubes are gone forever, unless you source out NOS stock.
But it's just wire guys, right? So with tubes, it's just getters, plates, heaters and the like and they're so small that they can be made out of anything remotely similar, right? Just do it on the cheap. It still functions within specs, doesn't it?
In response to clearthink…Obviously I know wires, tubes, et al have easily explainable benefits, and I hear those...it's the utter lack of any sort of explaining how or why designers decided that $2 fuses are inadequate, although the cheap fuses might be working well and your rig sounds fine. Does replacing an inexpensive half inch passive wire (meaning it's just wire that melts if needed) in a glass tube with a somehow improved half inch tiny wire in a glass or ceramic tube with graphene coating or special end caps or tesla coil jolting providing 75 times the benefit of the standard fuse? Did the thousands of special fuse purchasers hear a difference or just assume there would be one because they're reading hyperbolic posts? Can't say, anymore than anyone can say the thousands of people not buying them are against improving their rig. Many supporters of Blue Fuses already are using tweaks that are questionable as to their efficacy, and seem to be bound to support any imaginary tweak that comes along…and in the case of Blue Fuses there remains no explanation as to how or why they might improve sound.
Also just to keep the record straight, I personally value quality accurate metrics as much as anyone in general but also acknowledge measurements are often not enough to provide the absolute final word in practice.
almarg 7,946 posts 04-12-2018 1:19pm I believe that the main point Mapman was making about attribution of differences that may be measured in the proposed test was simply that the measurement and comparison process should be repeated multiple times. That would presumably eliminate the possibilities that the measured differences, if any, are the result of imprecision or lack of repeatability in the test hardware and/or software itself, or are the result of extraneous variables such as differences in the warmup state of the equipment.
That makes a lot of sense to me, especially when the measured differences can be expected to be small.
Actually, repeating the test doesn’t necessary make it more valid. The same mistakes that affect the first one, assuming there are any mistakes, would affect the rest of them. That’s why “repeatability” means having a totally different test and test conductor. That should be pretty obvious. Otherwise unscrupulous or uncareful test conductors - even careful test conductors - could have unfortunate consequences. Mistakes in a system may be beyond the control of the test conductor. So, any test result is only a single data point. It has little meaning if the test results are negative because - as has been pointed out a number of times - there are many reasons why a test might fail to show differences, or audibility or wherever was being tested when in fact there are.
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