The most amazing musical instrument I have ever encountered was the voice of a girlfriend of mine in college 5 decades ago. This was just her everyday conversational voice. She was not a "singer" as such, but everyone thought she was singing all the time. "Music" doesn't have to be counted or prefigured. It can come spontaneously flowing out of anything at all which is its best surprise.
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The fact that musical experience is able to induce "mystical" experience of change in the consciousness levels is not something associated with a low level information content and communication, as a shaking encounter with some unknown and imprevisible event or as with a surprize schock resulting from a totally new phenomenon. On the opposite musical experience elevate and increase the understanding levels of consciousness to new heights in an incremental way... Music can introduce us to the transcendant experience not by decreasing intelligence level and consciousness level like alcool putting us to sleep, in the opposite music increase our intelligence and consciousness perception levels. Read about this analysis content of Bach music : https://journals.aps.org/prresearch/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevResearch.6.013136
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For sure aside from sound/singing meditative practice , humming was used by all mothers with singing to calm and soothe the child... Then save for spiritual and health practice, humming is a social grounding reinforced bonding deeply engrammed in the subconscious mind ...
https://www.buteykobreathing.nz/blog/potential-immune-protective-effects-nitric-oxide-and-humming https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987705006328 |
Interestingly, humming produces a massive increase in nitric oxide levels in the sinuses. Nitric oxide is incredibly important for body and brain in numerous ways. |
Humming as health and relaxing practice must be done lips closed and the voice must stay on one note at a confort pitch level for the people doing the humming ... After some few deep slow respirations, we must hum 5 times to reap the benefits...Silence period between each hum as long as each humming ... A simple way to decrease stress in 5 minutes sessions...And why not even reach God if our intention is setlled to do so...😊 In his book about humming Goldman describe all impact on the bodies... When the heart and brain are synchonized, the heart had his own neural network as the gut has one too, when they are synchronized they are amplified; if we add our conscious intention and the vibroacoustic sound effect of the Humming or AUM on the body adding to this synchronization another level of amplification , anything become possible , better sleep as health or happiness experience or more ... Even our dreaming state will be modified as the australian people said... |
Goldman cite a doctor saying it is demonstrated that relaxing music is as potent as valium ... I dont doubt it myself... Anybody with stress crisis can test it himself... A fact which is striking is a relatively high % of people are not moved by music, or are unable to produce it or a mix of the two. it is call amusia ... For me i feel this as an handicap as much as others handicap...
Anyway i did not know but Goldman wrote a book about humming sound... He was looking for a sound whch anybody can produce from babies to grandpa without any judgemental appreciation or preoccupation about the voice qualities : the humming sound.... For sure as he said Patanjali already described this sound AUM or OM as the fundamental home or humming of the cosmos itself... Goldman remind us that a lot of peer reviewed research around the sound AUM or humming demonstrated all health beneficial effects on the metabolism or blood pressure and many other aspects... Personally i like very much the music of Australian original people creating it with their voices and the powerful didgeridoo...Which is a humming sound ...The didgeridoo is probably the most powerful humming instrument with the human humming voice...
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Psychoacoustics sound goes to the ears... a tuning forks you hear for example... Vibroacoustic sounds goes through the body... A tuning fork directly applied to a body part... Healing processing sounds = some frequencies + intention of those who give or produce the sound and intention of those who receive it ... I resume some important Jonathan Goldman points ... "Music and sound are the carrier of our consciousness." " Love is not a frequency but a consciousness that can be encoded in any sound" "Everything is frequency yes, but no one respond to the same set of frequencies the same way as some % are allergic to penincillin which for others will be a healing drug (with his frequencies) ." " In basically most cosmologies, sound precede light (sonoluminescence) in the beginning was the word, the verb, the logos" "a long tradition link vocalization and visualization with manifestation" We must remember here that studying "the structures of the anthropological imagination " by Gilbert Durand , he demonstrated how ALL SYMBOLS are classified and classifiable as externalization of the human metabolism and reflex systems and morphologies... No symbols inherited from the past escape this grounding roots in the body ... Healing sounds or helping sounds can be any sounds that the individual need at this time , in his actual state in some circonstance... Than even if healing or relaxation sounds are not about tastes , "tastes" there is and specific needs must be answered too ... Even heavy metal can be for someone at some time healing ...Even if it is not for everyone and at all time...
At the end "silence is the yin to the yang of sound" . Silence is the ocean of all sounds when they goes together and wait for the new sound to be born. "silent" is an anagram of the word "listen" .... |
Now someone that had something to say who is one of the great expert about healing music and music as conciousness orchestration in the body of the "symphony of the self ": One of his album is my best healing album ever ( i used it for anxiety control and amazingly it work as much as a powerful drug for me in 20 minutes each time i used it and pay attention here, i dont use this as i use classical music or jazz as leisure relaxation, i use it ONLY if i need it it is as a drug and it is a very short pieces of spoken songs repeated without end with very minute variations of frequencies) ....😊
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Calling all people "idiots" who love this video put here by the OP say a lot about you... Calling others idiots will only confirm it ... Enjoy you brain walls... Try this book ... Cipolla: the 5 fundamental laws of stupidity... It is a free book on the net written by this italian economist...Unrivalled book till this day about the definition of stupidity...Or write your own instead of insulting people , who knows how wise you could be ? 😁 It may help ... Because i guess you will not take my advice i will resume all the book with the third law which is the core : «A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.» Now you have the necessary mirror to meditate about yourself before judging others alleged stupidity ... I dont think that you are intelligent enough to be sensible to mathematical thinking history and his links to spiritual experience and the real meaning of Godel theorems ... Etc ... I suggest the book of Cipolla...
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You are right ... In my opinion this is a revolution , the greater one since the transition from mono to stereo system...
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I do not consider Sorabji as a failed composer writing unplayable music as the short introduction above present him... I think nothing resemble Sorabji cosmos in piano music... But Sorabji ask a lot of the listener ...We must want to be immersed in another world... But i recommend this video above not as the last word on Sorabji but as a challenge... Perhaps you will listening Sorabji and you will not be moved as we are moved by most classical composers...But none of the composers who moves me gave to me such challenge for my attention and anyway i found Sorabji music fascinating as really a new geometrical cosmos for piano ...My favorite instrument ... Sorabji is one of my favorite composer in the twentieth century ... |
In music depth and surface are one... Music is a fractal phenomenon by essence.... The Goethe method was described by Henri Bortoft as "taking the appearence seriously"... Music is such that his mysterious meaning is completely given in his acoustic appearence... Nothing is hidden in music , everything wait to be perceived ... «Music gave us new ears and new body, playing and listening music is like redesigning his body and not only his soul »-- Anonymus musician Anyway speech is music first and last....😊 |
Hey I’m just glad someone ( @thecarpathian ) understands my humor. May the force be with you! 🥇 |
Very interesting and moving video... The first chapter experience described in the book by Oliver Sacks... I had no doubt that the human mind is "tuned" to the "other world" , and music or mathemathics are direct manifestation of higher consciousness levels... It is the same for poetry ... Dont let materialism impede intuition nor ideas... Listening music is deeper activity than killing time ...
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Pretty sure @mapman was being facetious... |
@mapman: “The mystery of high end audio is way more mysterious than that of music.” This is like saying the functionality of a Cuisinart is more “mysterious” than the experience eating amazingly good food provides. a) the experience of enjoying listening to music These two things are not alike, and to say b) is “way more mysterious” than a), frankly, boggles my mind. |
I agree with you description because i felt the same in my experiments with many minerals...
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@bolong , Thank you for taking the time to clarify your previous statement. |
No problem. It’s the way it goes on public forums. Humans being the itchy and scratchy entities they are they are more enamored of picking fights over relatively innocuous things especially now that the media environment has been pitched so shrill. To reiterate for "thecarpathian" we were talking about being affected by vibrations assumed to be beyond the range of human hearing. I was suggesting that there are other such vibrations - microwaves being yet another example. In the case of orgonite, which functions like a capacitor with a compressed crystal inside it, there are people who "feel" the energy field quite emphatically. There may not technically be a "sound" associated with it, but some liken it to a sound perhaps because of the way it interacts with the brain. Maybe a better way to say it is that it is reminiscent of sound which for the brain can be the same thing as a sound.
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It is not the first time i overreacted... I apologize to you... First you are the OP of this thread then..... I must have been better in controlling my own temper... I acted taking myself too seriously because i am very interested in this topic... I personaly think that vibrations being not confined to material plane , telepathy is a possible occurring phenomena because we live simultaneously on many planes ...
But sasquatch discussion will not be taken seriously here anyway... I believe you are of good faith then i am the only responsible person to have derail this trail ... I apologize really ... I hope you will understand me ... I apologize to all readers of this thread too...
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ON THE MAKE meaning: trying hard to succeed, esp. in a way that is dishonest. Very important to choose your words wisely. Okay, I fibbed. Question for you: Explain what is a high vibrational characteristic that might also be called a sound. Because I’ve got to tell you, that comes off as a load of nonsense. An in depth explanation may clarify your meaning. |
That was not a sales pitch. That was an example of a material that has high vibrational characteristics that might also be called a sound. That was the topic at hand. You had no way of knowing this, but I am 70 years old and about to hang it up with orgonite making. I certainly don't advertise or pump my mailing list anymore, and even if I still was "on the make" this forum would not be on my list of places to hawk my weird wares. |
That plug. I’m going to leave you and your friend Bigfoot alone now. I wish you well living in your own private Idaho. |
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i am not a perfect human being... No i did not watch the video... But can you explain in a few words as i did when i put a video here WHY WE MUST watch it ... And seeing a sasquatch video without explanation in a thread about sound/music and consciousness , make my enthusiasm cold ... I am sure that you will explain why we must watch one hour of our life time a saquatch video related supposedly to sound mystery ? By the way i believe sasquatch may exist and ghost speaking and recorded exist too ...But what can be the relation with sound music mysteries and consciousness ? thats the only question that interest me .. For sasquatch i had no problem... My problem is that it is not a thread in my mind about a TV show on mysteries in GENERAL...perhaps i was wrong but the video you put at the beginning of the thread is spot on on sound and music deep properties...
I dont pride myself to be open mind , because i am credulous as a children... But i am also dead serious as Mathusalem ...I dont put thread to CATCH people and expose them as closed mind to begin with ... it is child play... The burden of proof is on your shoulder... Why listen to this one hour video in a serious thread about meanings of sound and consciousness levels ? Explain to us what is in this video which could be related to sound perception music meanings and consciousness level ... Before listening a one hour video i must have a reason to do so especially this ONE in this specific thread... I believe sasquatch exist by the way it is only my opinion and i cannot know for sure... Then my reaction dont come from skepticism about sasquatch but come from the way you throw this here WITHOUT EXPLANATION in this thread that i takes seriously ... is it to provoke as you say you did ? then it is child like ...Is there another reason ? write it ...
There is mysteries in Nature but sasquatch is like any natural creature that exist or not , an enigma , a simple question not a mystery in the deep sense of the world related to consciousness as this thread propose when thinking about sounds ...
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@bolong , I was going to comment, but words at the moment escape me...Do you find that occasionally happens to you with regards to reality? |
There is nothing spiritual nor mystical about sasquatch music which anyway does not exist as recorded music and if it exist cannot be analysed as a musical phenomenon but only as a noise which we cannot even say that is speech... Why not dolphins sounds ? Or bees music ... At least they have been seriously recorded ... And even analysed ... It will be difficult to keep this thread serious ... The OP want to self destruct his thread ?😊 Some had claimed here that nothing about sound and music had a relation to consciousness levels or mystical experience... They will felt vindicated in their sarcasms with this appeal to sasquatch ( why not ghost music because as saquatch ghost exist too but ghosts or dead people at least had been extensively recorded) ... i am certainly too serious ... 😊 I am unable to enjoy comic book... Shame on me...
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How about we go a bit further off the reservation, This interview with Henry Franzoni who is at the top of the heap among Bigfoot researchers slowly morphs into the paranormal or what I prefer to call the supranormal and finally gets into the subject of music. Franzoni in his younger days was an Indie music drummer which has given him insights into what he was "hearing" in some Bigfoot encounters. Franzoni has been "around the block" re: Bigfoot and has had an intimate relationship with native american tribes in the Pacific Northwest. As a conservationist hired to monitor wildlife populations on reservations he heard and saw many, many unusual things.
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When i said learning to be a genius, i dont mean it litterally... I mean it in the same way as when we read anything from a genius or look at Nature we became richer and more attentive... As children discovering with an open mind... Music is a teacher , listening any great composers or any great musicians we borrow from them a spark of their genius we use in a proportionate way at our own level to move a bit higher on our journey... Sound is a teacher , music too ...
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I spoke many times about Goethe method of "exact sensorial imagination" as Goethe use it in his studies about colors, plant morphology and mammals morphology...
I recommended the book of Wolfgang Schad about the morphology of mammals using Goethe method... I recommended physicist Henri Bortoft books about Goethe method , especially his book called "taking appearances seriously" ...
But people often dont have time for books ...
Now in one hour video, prepared to fall of your chair and be introduced to "exact sensorial imagination " in geometry and physiology of the human earth and of the earth core ...
If you dont fall of your chair , you need a boost of your brain ...You are way too slow...😁
The relation with sound and music is easy to made using cymatics video for those who are curious...
The sceptics here who doubt that sound and music can elevate and manifest higher levels of consciousness, higher enough to make us able to perceive evident mysteries which are only hidden to us because we are like robot INATTENTIVE and distracted by our own blind course , these sceptics too need a brain boost ...😁 Their mind is too slow to work adequately ...Sorry...
They need to read Goethe or any genius in art and sciences...or listen to this video more than one times...
Leonardo da Vinci used the same method as Goethe and even Archimedes in mathematical physics... Grothendieck use the same method of creative imagination, "exact sensorial imagination" to create singlehandly algebraic geometry ... Cantor created set theory guided by the limitation of size intuition taken from Mystic experience about the Difference between the absolute and the relative but also by contemplating the Dionysos triple methods apophantic, cataphatic and intuitive non discursive method with which he described celestial hierarchies as manifested in the human body as preparation for the incarnation of Christ ... ( you will not read this in a maths book it is deep and not well known )
All the music of Bach and Bruckner and of Indian and Iranian master or African yoruba masters evoke geometry in time flow in a way or in another ...If we can see it even speech is litteraly a flor of geometric forms produced by consonants and
vowells, if we see them in imagination or trough Cymatics technology ...
We perceive beings as world apart but they are made from the same vortex core , it is ourself who walk world apart at the periphery in our sleep ...
This video in one hour is the best course ever about creativity and mysteries...
Yes exactly as we can learn how to hear and listen or learn how to see and look at, or compensate and balance peripheral attention and focussed attention , we then can learn how to become a "genius" even if we will never got the Nobel prize ... 😎
Listen to the best basic lesson i discover in the form of a video ...
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On this point you are right for sure!😊 The mystery of sound is not related to engineering audio as such as i said, it is all about acoustics , with the relation between the body in some acoustic environment , designed by human or not ... Think about Church architecture, Egyptian temple acoustic, prehistoric site:
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Just as a sidenote, is there anyone who would not agree that good sound quality helps open up more fully all the dimensions in which music exists and that one might choose to explore, enjoy, and perhaps even become affected by? Isn’t that what it is all about? Pretty mystical, I’d say.
Good listening!
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