Strawberry Hill was better! |
Maybe H20 is the next Boone's Farm. Anybody remember Cold Bear? |
in the 'flavor' of this thread i would split my vote for most 'potentially' emotional amp between the Tenors (OTL and Hybrid) and the darTZeel NHB-108. why? because of amps i have heard.....they seemed to have the best ability to get out of the way of the music and at the same time cover the whole frequency range with real-world speakers. they both have a certain 'fire' or 'sparkle' and coherence that suspends disbelief and just gets you closer to the essence of music.
but i strongly feel that there is no quick, fool-proof ticket to communicating the emotional content of music.
my opinion is that finding the emotion in the music is more an issue of system synergy and not embodied in any one product or category. it can happen by accident (akin to winning the lottery) sometimes......but mostly it is about getting the little things right and finding the correct combination of gear and then optimizing each piece. i have found that investment is not the most significant issue but better gear (or better room) will take you farther into the music once you find that synergy.
i have heard very modest simple systems that have great synergy and emotional content (both digital and analogue based) and very expensive systems (such as my own) that (at least at particular moments) miss synergy completly.
i apologize if i have distracted the thread from amps......but i have recently chased system synergy and (at least for the moment) seem to have captured it so i am seeing most issues from that perspective. the emotional content of the music (the ability of the music to reach out and grab you) jumped 10-fold when the synergy happened. |
Combinations/synergy, etc etc...For emotion, I dont think that is the ticket. Even some bad synegry systems will sound tremendously good, depending what your prior experience is...
Audiophiles just seem to spin around in circles and give the gear too much credit, when I think its our level of receptiveness to the music. But we seem to close up when the gear isnt to our "liking" anymore.....
So we become more attached to the capabilities of the system than the music...I am guilty of this myself, but I always find good music, as emotionally satisfying when I listen to my old Fisher 400 thru vintage EV's as when I use my main Berning pre and amps thru Quad ESL-63 system... |
Yeah......I recall Cold Bear. Just don't ask why.
No, I never touched it, but the story that goes with it.......
Pat |
Jsujo, i think you mis-understood my post. i agree that we give gear too much credit.....all good gear does is expand the possibilities.....but not necessarily the enjoyment or performance. good synergy is not necessary for connecting to the music. but synergy is important if you desire to get as close to hearing the unveiled musical event as possible and get the maximum emotional involvement that your gear is capable of. i would expect that participants here would typically want that.
musical enjoyment is valid in any way one wants it.....i'm no music snob. it can be over the damn phone.....if it moves you then fine by me. |
For those who think an amplifier can be emotional, then can a capacitor, a speaker binding post or amp stand also be emotional? It sounds silly to me if you say yes.
If you can't connect to truly great music when played back on lo-fi equipment, then you won't connect to it on a reference quality system either. A well setup synergistically matched system definitely adds something nice to the music, but in the scheme of things its not as important as the performance itself. It's akin to going to a sports arena and the difference between courtside seats and nose-bleed seats. Who wouldn't want the courtside seats? But any seat in the arena is hugely different and better than experiencing the event on TV. |
Mike, much good music thru the phone when on hold..:-) |
My vote goes to the Audio Research VS110. This amp replaced the famous Naim NAP 250 in my rack, and has all the speed and impact that the Naim was famous for, but with far more detail, nuance, and warmth that the Naim couldn't touch. Other high-end tube amps I've heard never could meet the first part of that equation for me. In my opinion, you need slam to reach the more frantic/excited part of the emotional spectrum. |
Tube amp, I don not like to be one sided I kinda pride myself in that but every time I compare a tube to solid state the tube amp always wins. IMHO |
In my opinion the Cary CAD-211 (15k/Pair) is the most emotional to my ears but every person is different. I first heard them at CES 2005 with the Cary SLP2005, Cary tube CD player and a pair of Cary speakers. I went back 5 times and finaly had to force myself to leave and not stop in for just one more listen.
Mark |
Mikelavigne, Well put in your last couple of comments. I think what you spoke to this thread was most valuable and I could not agree more. Synergy makes all the difference. Cheers! |
My guess is you mean the most emotionally involving amp? Other components will of course contribute greatly but my vote would be for the McCormacks with revisions & the Deluxe models. |
I completely agree with Mike. I would also add when some throw around the term emotional they are ingoring the vast range of emotion itself! They type of emotion associated with say acapella female singing would be quite different from head banging heavy metal! |
Not entirely sure just how emotional an amp can be and still convey neutrality.... I will say, however, I got pretty dog gone emotional letting go of the money for my last amp. All sorts of emotions. Does that count?
I don't think an emotional anything is 'a', or 'the', key. I think perhaps the so often sought 'positive emotion', that may result, is from the mix of components and peripherals. It's tuff enough to mix neutral pieces together to obtain great results. Let alone introducing devices with colorful traits, or their own unique characteristics.
....don't think so? Put a great amp with a poor preamp, or source, or speakers, or have all great stuff and poor wires, or still worse lovely components, wires, etc. but with power that sucks to high heaven. No, for my money I'd as soon have the right mix and not a mixed up (emotional), amp.
Involving, emotional, enthralling, and just plain 'Wow!' seem, IMO, to come as a result of a combination of things, proper tweaks, and careful attention to both synergy & placement.
Along the way to the desired 'audio nirvana' I will assure you some sort of emotional encounters. . . and for your sake I hope they are all positive.
For myself, they usually follows the opening of a heavy wallet, and the closing of a now, empty one, or a poor choice of a device that works well with some things, but poorly with others... and the absolute worst emotions stem from finding it for hundreds less shortly after buying it and being unable to return it... Now I'd consider that an emotional amp. Wouldn't you? |
I have dabbled with tube, mainly AR pre-amps (I have a TriVista big watts and a 300B 7W) but remain SS for the time being.
However, I still remember the day I walked into a Jadis demonstration and was completely blown away. It still haunts me today and I have never again had that same experience. |
What a bunch of mostly useless replys to a heartfelt plea...I too own the Virgo II's. I was using a N.E.W. D.C powered amp that was glorious. The best of at least a dozen I tried over 5 years with the Virgos. Detailed, quick,sparkle, great bottom end, low noise floor, great imaging, all under 4K. I had to sell it when I moved recently from USA to Australia, as it's recharging cycle was totally dedicated to 110V and could not be changed. I bought and am now selling my Cary V12R, as it did nothing for the Virgos. I have tried single ended amps, but the Virgos are not that easy to drive. I am now looking, but auditions for hi end gear is not available in my area. I would like to hear from you what you have tried or recently bought to run your Virgos. |
There are obviously many suggestions. My understanding is that SET is best if the speakers are an easy load. SET amps are now available up to 50 watts from DeHavilland - GM 70. Then, if difficult load, considerations change. Talking solid state , I personally like Pass Labs. |
I have been using SET amps for better part of 5 years. Even before the SET amp was in vogue. But the one thing I was missing was the dynamics that real music has. Even a soft piano passage has dynamics. The speaker I am using are pretty efficient and they have a fairly flat impedance curve but they did not have dynamics. A friend sold me a 1959 fisher integrated that uses EL84 output tubes. I just thought it would be fun to play with, WOW. I kept telling myself this just isn't right, fast, great sound stage front to back, side to side, great placement, and great DYNAMICS. A few mods later, and it is even better. Now my curiosity was heightened, I bought a pair of Manley EL84 based Mahi amps (Mahi, Mahi). I got to tell you, if your speakers aren't power hungry these little amps will certainly change ones opinion that SET's are the end all in amplification. This little tube has the speed of SET's and the b___'s of a P/P tube amp. Just my humble opinion |
Anything expensive. It will surely make you cry when you see the price tag. |
I have had two that transmitted true emotions (once still a keeper) The Gryphon Anthileon and Conrad Johnson Premier 8.
Inave heard great emotional impact as well in some showrooms from FM acoustics and Thor.
Fernando |
Interesting.... Tom Evans Linear As uses four EL84s per side, and a few reputable individuals claim it's the best amp currently out there, and high on the "emotional factor". |
Interesting.... Tom Evans Linear As uses four EL84s per side, and a few reputable individuals claim it's the best amp currently out there, and high on the "emotional factor". I was so excited to hear this amp after reading the "crushes all SET amps" reviews. What a shocker, as it sounded thin and glassy to me, as well as to my friend, who was selling it after two months. His Audiopax Stereo 88's were much richer/fuller/emotional sounding. The most emotional amp I ever heard was the Audion Silver Night MKII. Downright weepy. |
My first impression was exactly the same. If you're an SET fan, what you love is that palpability/mid band magic that SET does so well. Unfortunately the LA is SET only by name and sounds nothing like a SET. In fact, having owned a range of amps, I would say it sounds most like a chip amp - 47labs, Audiozone, Pateks - Fast/immediate, dynamic and direct but a far far superior version. The thin/glassy comment is true especially compared with typical SETs and even more so using stock Ei valves. But with the right upstream components + cabling (it's VERY picky/transparent) and a change of expectation of what music communication is all about, then the Linear A is an exceptional amp. Just don't expect to hear a SET. The LA's immediacy and bandwidth will blow u away. I have fallen in since... |
In over 30 years of this hobby I've listened to a LOT of amps. The most emotion-infused amps I've heard are:
Audion Golden Dream 300B parallel single-ended monoblocks
McIntosh MC1201 monoblocks
VAC Avatar integrated tube amp
Audio Research D76A tube stereo amp
The Audion Golden Dreams are the most tonally dense and rich amps I've ever heard. The McIntosh MC1201 is the most dynamically effortless amp at any volume level, with rich tonal body and relaxed tone. The VAC Avatar was one of those "perfect" amps that had everything in balance. And the ARC D76A was and remains the last truly emotion-transmitting ARC circuit. Everything since has been progressively more objective and analytical.
Phil |
213Cobra,
Which version of the VAC Avatar did you listen to? |
By the way, the most emotional amp I've ever listened to is my refurbished 1959 Pilot 402 receiver. Something magical about the sound that I can't quite put into words. |
Hands down winner for me is Art Audio Jota (preferably high power version monoblocks) |
It would have to be a single ended amp. They convey the right tonal quality that is necessay. The 845 is a good tube at doing that. The 300B not quite as good. For emotions like slam then perhaps some solid state amp. |
Of course, I would be remiss if I didn't chime-in with my preference for my David Berning custom choke-loaded 45 SET-ZOTL with battery-power. A one-off variation derived from the Berning Siegfried SET-ZOTL, custom built by David for me a few years ago.
The Type 45 triodes are my favorite, and I'm currently using the Emission Labs Mesh-plates. I use NOS Sylvania for the 6SN7 tubes.
The big thing for me with this amp, is that it gives the "true" Single-Ended-Triode sound, but requires no output tranformer to get in the way of the frequency extremes. This provides the SET "Golden Midrange" for the entire frequency spectrum, instead of limiting that beauty to just the midrange.
It is quite spectacular, when paired with the high-efficiency single driver speakers that are needed for it's very low 2wpc output. Naturally, the very deepest bottom octave is sacrificed(speakers roll-off at 41Hz) in a system of this type, but the rest of the spectrum easily makes up for that(unless you are the most ardent deep bass-freak!) I've seen "bass freaks" forget all about the deep bass when being mezmerized by this system. The coherence and "rightness" of the sound makes you forget all about "parcelizing" the sound, and you just melt into the music. |
I'm coming late to this thread, but as the owner of a Linear A (and the writer of one of the more ecstatic reviews of it) I thought I'd chime in.
I think Boy_lah hit the nail on the head. The Linear A emphatically does not sound like a traditional SET amp. In particular it's faster, more transparent, resolving and dynamic. We all know that those characteristics are a double-edged sword, and usually lead to a better sonic than musical presentation. One man's "lush" is another man's "turgid", though. Our perceptions in this area are heavily influenced by our mental wiring, particularly our expectations and what we have been listening to recently.
As the owner of an Audion Silver Night MkII PX25 and a pair of Wavelength Triton 300B's in addition to the Linear A I'm in a position to have experienced the effects of expectation and exposure firsthand. I'd been listening to the PX25 for a long time when the LA arrived, and in comparison the PX25 the LA was like opening a door into a whole new world of physical realism. After I'd listened to the LA exclusively for a couple of months I went back to the PX25 and found a mized bag of impressions. Yes it was richer, and more relaxing to listen to. But balancing that pleasure was a sense that the music had slowed down, and that many of the subtleties of the musical event had gone missing. The musical excitement of the Linear A was replaced by a more gentle, atmospheric quality. And I definitely noticed the loss of frequency extension and dynamics. There seemed to be an extra layer of something betweeen me and the music that robbed it of much of its visceral liveness.
On balance, the presentation you will prefer depends on how and why you listen to music, and your value-set in the rest of your life. For me, clarity, physical palpability, life and drive are very important. Much of the emotional value in a musical performance is carried by the subtleties of the players' phrasing, performance and presentation, and the better I can hear that, the more impact it makes. To me, this is of far greater musical significance than the (admittedly seductive) richness of a traditional large-plate SET.
I am never selling my SET amps, though. It's nice to be able to change the music so completely when the mood strikes, secure in the knowledge that both presentations are good, and for extremely large values of "good" into the bargain. |
cj mv125--best tube amp ever made. |
>>cj mv125--best tube amp ever made<<
LOLOLOL |
by the way, the emotions come from the listener, not the amplifier. you can have an emotional response from the music if you are receptive to the emotional content of the music, regardless of the amp. |
This is a response to Best Amp, not Most Emotional Amp.
The amps that I have owned are Decware Signature Monoblocks, Pass Aleph 3, Blue Circle 26 Mkll, Art Audio Carissa, 47 Labs Gaincard and Simaudio Moon W-5. The two that I like the most are the Gaincard and the W-5. I would have kept the Gaincard, but it was not reliable. I may get another one someday. For the time being, the amp that I like the most is the W-5. I have also had extended listening sessions of Mark Levinson, Jeff Rowland, Classe, Krell, YBA and Cary amps. I like the W-5 better than any of the amps that I heard from these companies. |
Thanks. My emotions are uncontrollable laughter and incredulity. |
Try the copland integrated tube amp. Plenty of stage and clarity. |
Let me see, yup, it is still the H2O, matched with it's stable mate preamp, Fire. I don't have any need for tubes in the amp section. Carefully chosen tubes in the DAC satisfies my craving for valve magic. Meanwhile I enjoy the big sound of full range speakers setting the band in the room. |
Jadis and Cayin(thebigger models, the ones only avaliable in europe) |
Go read Buzzkill's comments in his Cayin ad, just sold.
Buzzkill please reproduce your comments on the A88 here.
Thanks |
TOM EVANS VIBE PULSE AND LINEAR B
NOTHING ELSE I HAVE HEARD EVEN GETS CLOSE
check out 6 moons review
youll have to imagine the leap in sound quality the linear b
offers over the linear a
ive heard both and the bs really do blow the a away
you really owe it to yourself to hear these
good luck
UKtel |
The most emotional amp??? I cry every time I think about what I spent, does that count? |
Nrchy hopefully you did not buy any Audio Research or Rogue, 2 of the least emotional amps I've heard. |
Bartokfan it would suck to cry over an unemotional amp! I didn't buy either of those, so I'm still safe! |
I just bought an Audio Refinement Multi-2 amp to use for the summer time. The presentation in the mids is still not human like which tubes can do better. But this little amp as finesse and for the first time I can hear the interplay of different harmonies. The higher up YBA amps are definitely worth investigating like the Passion or Classsic lines. BTW I would recommend a tube line stage or the sound can be a bit lean. |
The most emotional amp...? Why my 1969 Marshall Super Bass 100 at volume level 9 thru two 4 x 12" cabinets with my 1966 Fender Jazz Bass. Brings tears to your eyes... ^_^ |
My Status-graphite Stealth ii 6-string bass thru Focusrite Pre and 2600W Crown K2 thru 18" sub and 2" compression horn will bring tears and weaken your knee as well. |
Fun thread - everybody amp gets to be the star.
Mine too: VAC Renaissance XX/XX. Line up the 300Bs, break out the wine n cheese and don't even think about getting up for the first 45 minutes.
BTW - what happened to the OP? |
There are some amps that bring a tear to my eye when I look at the price-tag. Does that count? : ) |
Pat wrote...
Why is an amp supposed to be "emotional"? I thought the goal of us amp makers was to produce a product that neither added to, subtracted from, or changed the original source.
Right????
If you go to live performances you often see many audience members in tears after listening to their favorite opera. If you could duplicate the source, why would't you want that kind of experience at home? Roger |
