The character of analog and digital
Having just obtained some high quality analogue components, I want make some comments on the character of both analog and digital.
First of all it’s very difficult to speak of analog in general. Records vary widely (indeed wildly) in sonic character and quality. Digital recordings are much more uniform. When you play a digital file you more or less know what your getting. Of course some sound better than others, but there is a consistency of character. With records, it’s the Wild West. Variation in SQ and character are rampant.
Therefore it becomes very difficult to make generalizations on which categorically sounds better.
@sns, +1, digital doesn’t have the euphonic distortions typical of vinyl but can sound harsh when poorly implemented. I’d also generally recommend valve amplification with digital with its more benign higher harmonics distortions compared to silicon. Intrigued, though with progress on class D, may obviate the latter statement |
@millercarbon I thought it was 5 pillars? |
Hi @brianaus, It seems that you are full of generalizations today, and while generalizations may have truth in them, they’re usually not very useful. You like vinyl. Great. I have no problem with people who prefer vinyl or listen to vinyl exclusively. I just don’t understand people who think that everyone should like the same things they like, though. There are many albums recorded digitally that sound great. If you like any music recorded after about 1980, it has probably been digitized at some point. You like Japanese receivers and British speakers. That’s great, but it’s not the only route to good sound. People have different hearing and different tastes, many people may prefer a different sound, believe it or not. I’m American and have never heard Australians described as "Americans in training." Americans generally have a very good opinion of Aussies and see them as different from us and certainly not trying to be like us. We are saddened to see the Australian government getting a little power hungry and recently treating our Australian friends badly, though. Although this is a mostly American website, we enjoy hearing from people from other parts of the world. Unfortunately, opinions on an American website are going to be "Americo-centric" as you put it. Stick around and contribute in a positive fashion and we’ll be more than happy to hear a different point of view. |
@brianaus - that is a cracker of an insult. |
A lot of opinions and theorizing when the answer is found in the OP’s original post itself. No mention of the obvious: **** First of all it’s very difficult to speak of analog in general. Records vary widely (indeed wildly) in sonic character and quality. Digital recordings are much more uniform. When you play a digital file you more or less know what your getting. Of course some sound better than others, but there is a consistency of character. With records, it’s the Wild West. Variation in SQ and character are rampant. **** Bingo! Records vary wildly in sonic character because recordings vary wildly in sonic character. This is a good thing, not a negative. The fact that “there is a consistency of character” with digital recordings is a negative, not a positive. Both technologies have an intrinsic character. Why wouldn’t they? However, to my ears and in spite of the excellence that both are capable of, digital imposes more of its character on the music. |
This is correct and pleasant and is as it ought to be in western Judeo/Christian culture with shared geo-political alliances. Then there are times when us Aussies think that Americans are really on another planet and perhaps nobody can quite phrase the feeling as concisely as the Aussie actor Hugh Jackman did here. |
@tomcy6 Aussies beat up on Kiwis and Canadians with underhanded insults as often as they get the opportunity, just in a generally playful manner.
Aussies still get health care like Canadians, Kiwis and the PoHMs.
The “Americans in training” is basically like calling someone unaustralian. Which in the “Delhi School of Linguistics” “How to talk Austrians epsiode 2 Grub” youtube video, is summed up at 00:26 in.
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I've said it on these pages before that it is a beautiful thing that nobody (exception noted below) who is not Australian can ever come close to naturally speaking the homogenous Aussie accent with its many nuances. Meryl Streep came very close in the movie Evil Angels.
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“However, to my ears and in spite of the excellence that both are capable of, digital imposes more of its character on the music. “ Are these are the same ears that were possibly duped by MoFi in believing no digital mastering used in their vinyl pressings? Experts and hard core Vinyl fans with golden ears, who claimed to always be able to hear the difference between a digital source and original tape were proven wrong. |
No. I was not one of those “golden ears”….whatever that may mean other than the sarcasm you imbue into the term. I was not there so can’t speak to any of it. I am, however, someone whose ears spend several hours each and every day listening to and as part of the sound of live acoustic instruments; and have for literally decades. I can tell you that to MY EARS digitally processed recordings, on balance, swing the overall sound of acoustic music further from the purity of the sound of live than do analog recordings. The additive character is more obvious, if of a different type. Take that for whatever it may be worth to you; if anything at all. |
I understand the difference you speak of are possibly due to differences in mastering techniques. That’s why I chose to focus on recordings that are faithfully reproduced and sourced from analog master. We all are trying to replicate live music experience in our homes. IME, a properly dialed digital or analog system can replicate that live music experience. I honestly don’t care to partake in analog vs digital arguments. I been on both sides and understand deeply the virtues and pitfalls of both formats. I prefer to focus on music instead of tiresome and often meaningless discussions on one format superiority over another. Peace! |
Very well put. Analog versus digital and tubes versus transistors. What more can be said other than the redundant and stale back and forth comments. Purchase and own what you like and just enjoy the listening experience. Either format is capable. Charles |
@lalitk Shazam, you got it! Both capable of providing sheer bliss! Competition between my vinyl and digital setups certainly not zero sum game, total win win! I don't understand the need to differentiate, seems one would always have to be in analytical listening mode to depreciate either format. |
I completely agree that both formats are capable of excellent sound and I do agree that the topic gets old…. for a variety of reasons. However, preferring one over the other, or simply recognizing the differences, and they do exist, does not mean one is “depreciating” anything. It is simply an acknowledgment of a perception. More importantly, recognizing and/or acknowledgment of this in no way has to mean less appreciation of the music. Isn’t this what this hobby is all about? So, are we to conclude that any discussion about differences in cables, tweaks and other gear, differences that are often on the same level of nuance, is pointless? Moreover, the OP specifically addresses the issue of the perceived differences in character of the two formats. So, if there is so much aversion to discussing this ussue, and no disrespect intended, the question needs to be asked, why bother responding to, even reading, the thread? |
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Argument? Difference of opinion perhaps, but no argument. **** Therefore it becomes very difficult to make generalizations on which categorically sounds better. **** You did bring up the issue of which sounds better, rv 😊. I don’t believe it is all that difficult; or am I not allowed to express that opinion given the topic of the thread? I am good with having what is fact for me, remain opinion for others. |
Opinions are not the problem, problem is judgements posed as an objective truth. Vast majority of us who have both digital and analog setups may not have optimized one to same extent as other, this colors our opinion. One should state as such, in my case digital superior to vinyl, I've never suggested digital objectively superior to vinyl. Fact is best audio system SQ I've heard has been vinyl sourced, I've also never suggested vinyl objectively superior to digital. |
You make an excellent point. Our subjective opinions are mere reflection of our level of commitment and experience. I said it all along, The devil is in the details. In my case, for past 3-5 years, I was laser focused on pushing my digital to where it is today without even realizing that my digital has long surpassed my vinyl setup. Now that doesn’t mean that I no longer enjoy Vinyl, it just that my digital is now so much better in terms of connecting me to music that it is no longer about the source or a format. Once you get to this level of perfection with your choice of source, Vinyl or Digital; the only thing left to do is just feed your system with best possible recordings, sit back and enjoy the fruits of your labor. |
The answer is simple, be confident in your perceptions. One’s perception can be one’s truth. Why should it bother anyone that someone else may have a different perception of what truth is? Good grief, we’re talking about audio, not world hunger. Now, more to the point, I feel that digital and analog have intrinsically different sonic characters. To my way of thinking and given the dramatically different approaches to solving the same “problems” it is inconceivable that they wouldn’t have intrinsically different characters. The better the examples of each approach, the more subtle the differences; but they are still there. We are each particularly sensitive to different aspects of recorded sound for a variety of reasons. For me, it’s tonal texture and micro dynamics, for someone else it may be something different. We are each seduced by excellence in the areas that we tend to focus on, and tend to be forgiving of problems in areas that we don’t care about as much; areas that may be deal breakers for someone else. So, let’s all take a deep breath and not get bent out of shape because someone’s opinion is someone else’s truth.
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Agree. But who here got bent out of shape? At least I did not detect this. Just seems various opinions and impressions were openly expressed as one would expect on an open audio forum. Certainly not a big deal. Charles |
Charles, yeah, you’re probably right; a little (?) hyperbolic of me. I suppose that feeling that there is a “problem” at hand is not necessarily getting bent out of shape. Maybe it’s me that gets bent out of shape at the frequent complaining about expressed opinions that differ from our own; as if not expressing an opinion/perspective is some sort of expression of a held higher ground. It bothers me because I think it’s a shame that many audiophiles at not more open to others’ opinions/perceptions. Counterproductive. How is this topic different than the “cables make/don’t make” a difference” debate? Countless audiophiles feel that cables make an important difference in a system. Yet, there are still some who insist that it’s not true. How egocentric. Being more openminded is the way to a better appreciation of the very topic, even while confident in what we hear. As they say, you can’t prove a negative. IOW, if you don’t hear it ……. |
I hear ya! I actually believe that we’re on the same page. I probably should have expressed my comments differently. When I said the topic of digital versus analog had become tiresome and stale I did not mean it as a way to suppress further discussion. That is the whole point of these audio forums, lively and interesting (Hopefully) exchanges. Over the years these forums have served me well. I have found them for the most part entertaining and informative. Interactions with others has certainly expanded my knowledge base and level of awareness. Perhaps it was my mood at the time, but I felt, here we go again with this digital vs analog stuff. I did not intend to be dismissive of opinions and perspectives of others. Carry on gentlemen. 👍 Charles |
